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Which bear is fat bear? This poll is closed. |
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| 480 Otis |
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7 | 11.48% |
| 409 Beadnose |
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0 | 0% |
| 747 |
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26 | 42.62% |
| 435 Holly |
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10 | 16.39% |
| A New Challenger |
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18 | 29.51% |
| Total: | 61 votes | ||
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There is no reason to assume this was a deliberate conspiracy, in the absence of any actual evidence, when there is plenty of evidence of the actual chaos that has reigned over Israeli politics through the last few months. Hell, opposition within the Israeli military to the judicial overhaul was a major part of the protest movement.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:34
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 16:39 |
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I for.one hope Israel loses. Evil country
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Oct 7, 2023 20:35
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Two certainties: 1) Israel is going to kill a bunch of people now and 2) absolutely everyone is going to be spinning this incessantly in favor of their own narrative. Imo Israeli intelligence has certainly earned much of its reputation for a reason but also it's not at all hard to think that a combination of complacency and over-confidence wrt Palestinians enabled this. I find that vastly more likely than the 'they let this happen' speculation. There's so much precedent for countries basically buying their own propaganda until they badly underestimate an opponent. As an aside, the depth of sentiment supporting Palestine, or more precisely, that perceives ongoing Israeli repression of Palestinians as the greatest ongoing injustice of the region is hard to overstate and it's always loving wild to me how much widespread perception of that fact among Americans and Euros has fallen off. It's widespread in the Sunni Arab world and it's widespread among Shias. Idk it's by far the most obvious completely unresolved point of conflict and it is always wild to me that it mostly just gets ignored or, at best, downplayed. anyways poo poo sucks, I see no good resolution to any of this and I just hope it doesn't turn into a larger regional blowup, though I think some of the parties involved would like for that to be the outcome Plastic_Gargoyle posted:There is no reason to assume this was a deliberate conspiracy, in the absence of any actual evidence, when there is plenty of evidence of the actual chaos that has reigned over Israeli politics through the last few months. yeah you had very important parts of the Israeli military openly stating that they would not follow orders in the leadup to the judicial overhaul (ahem) and Israel's main ally stretched thin between Ukraine and the priority of providing a credible deterrence in Taiwan that if there ever was going to be the time to do something it would be right now Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 20:39
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Herstory Begins Now posted:As an aside, the depth of sentiment supporting Palestine, or more precisely, that perceives ongoing Israeli repression of Palestinians as the greatest ongoing injustice of the region is hard to overstate and it's always loving wild to me how much widespread perception of that fact among Americans and Euros has fallen off.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:43
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Cugel the Clever posted:I think it's mostly due to Western countries unequivocally supports this injustice, whereas there's at least more hemming and hawing towards others. It follows our track record of supporting countries doing similar things in the past, nothing too out of the ordinary there. Edit: Certain arab nations are as awful as we are if not worse in that regard, but it's like the pot calling the kettle black. Especially in regards to the sauds.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:44
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Imo Israeli intelligence has certainly earned much of its reputation for a reason but also it's not at all hard to think that a combination of complacency and over-confidence wrt Palestinians enabled this. I find that vastly more likely than the 'they let this happen' speculation. Yeah this is pretty much where I am with it. I don't think they had a full or even half complete picture of what was about to unfold, but I certainly think the loud warning signs were there, and they downplayed them or didn't realize the gravity of how bad it could get. Which is still pretty loving bad.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:48
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Wasabi the J posted:I for.one hope Israel loses. "I want the crazy religious fundamentalists that I support to win" I don't know where people got the delusional idea that Hamas are "the good guys" from, but uh, yikes. Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Oct 7, 2023 |
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Oct 7, 2023 20:49
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https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY?si=ForOi3uvABjepFkf
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Oct 7, 2023 20:54
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Even with the failure of intelligence services - either accidental or deliberate - how was it even possible for Palestinians to breach the border, take over military positions and then wreak havoc in Israeli settlements for hours on end. Granted, most of those settlements are just over a kilometre from the border, but it's ridiculous how hard the IDF were caught with their pants down so badly. Unfortunately I feel like the die has been cast and the situation has past the point of no return.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:54
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:"I want the crazy religious fundamentalists that I support to win" No one here thinks Hamas are the good guys, they're saying Israel is just as bad or worse. Your original point about cheering for genocide was bad, this isn't much better.
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Oct 7, 2023 20:56
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Fragrag posted:Unfortunately I feel like the die has been cast and the situation has past the point of no return. It's pretty much this now, we're just hanging out waiting to see if this spreads beyond the borders and how bad it gets.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:03
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I can't wait till Jewish fascists adopt a stabbed in the back narrative and blame this on the pro democracy protestors weakening Israelis security.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:12
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Soylent Pudding posted:I can't wait till Jewish fascists adopt a stabbed in the back narrative and blame this on the pro democracy protestors weakening Israelis security. Already happened.
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Oct 7, 2023 21:13
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Evergreen since ancient times.
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Oct 7, 2023 22:25
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Waiting on the extended dubstep version. Wonder what the over/under is on China getting froggy. Go vote on Bears! Grazer was killing 747, he came to win this year. Probably will face Holly for the right bracket. Hoping Chunk takes left.
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Oct 7, 2023 22:31
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Fat Bear week: Bear Force One is getting absolutely shot down in today’s round vs 128 Grazer. Grazer has put in the work and reps, there’s no way for 747 to compete against that level of madness in training. She’s raised 2 sets of cubs in her 18 years, and the other bears give her a wide berth. She’s going to win it, guaranteed. https://explore.org/meet-the-bears#grazer Fake e: lol
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Oct 7, 2023 22:34
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Yeah it was looking pretty grim for ol' 747 even when I voted around lunchtime. I am assembling a crack team of TV lawyers and pillow salesmen to challenge this obvious deep state interference. (Seriously though Grazer is an absolute unit. Unette?)
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Oct 7, 2023 22:45
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smdh do y'all want the rapture or not, because this is how you get the rapture
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Oct 7, 2023 22:51
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maffew buildings posted:smdh do y'all want the rapture or not, because this is how you get the rapture i mean gently caress it we have climate hell coming so whatever lets do some left behind poo poo
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Oct 7, 2023 22:57
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hey, if it means i dont have to go to work anymore, im down
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Oct 7, 2023 23:08
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maffew buildings posted:smdh do y'all want the rapture or not, because this is how you get the rapture It's only Armageddon if it happens on Mount Megiddo, otherwise it's a sparkling apocalypse.
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Oct 7, 2023 23:08
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Midjack posted:It's only Armageddon if it happens on Mount Megiddo, otherwise it's a sparkling apocalypse.
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Oct 7, 2023 23:15
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My Spirit Otter posted:hey, if it means i dont have to go to work anymore, im down Is this what they've done to us
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Oct 7, 2023 23:21
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:"I want the crazy religious fundamentalists that I support to win" compared to the genocidal state of Israel theyre absolutely the good guys lmao
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Oct 7, 2023 23:35
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Pine Cone Jones posted:Is this what they've done to us well, to me at least!
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Oct 7, 2023 23:36
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Weird that this attack happened to occur on Vladimir Putin's birthday, huh
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Oct 7, 2023 23:53
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What could be interesting is what the Arab world players decide to do. I doubt Jordan is suddenly gonna get foggy, but you never know.
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Oct 8, 2023 00:44
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I feel stupid saying that I don't think outside involvement will be much of a thing, the risk seems too high. I won't toxx myself on that though.
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Oct 8, 2023 00:56
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Jordan would be extremely far down the list of countries likely to get involved. Lebanon (more precisely hezbollah) or Syria (albeit in a more passive role as the SAA is held together by duct tape currently) or Iran and the network of groups that Suleimani built up are the ones most likely to do something. I know Israel won't practice any restraint, but in terms of minimizing escalatory potential, this would be a very good time for them to not just go utterly all out on Palestinians. On the other hand, if Iran and hesbollah and other groups want to escalate, this will probably escalate regardless of what Israel does. Hell Israel is already semi-actively in conflict with Syria and Iran as they've been airstriking Iranian and Syrian targets for the better part of a decade now. Proud Christian Mom posted:compared to the genocidal state of Israel theyre absolutely the good guys lmao israel being an apartheid state does not make hamas good, hth Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Oct 8, 2023 |
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Oct 8, 2023 01:11
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Fox is already spinning up the whole 'this is actually and Iranian plot' and are somehow trying to tie Biden's recent negotiation with Iran to get US prisoners released as somehow part of it as well. Would not put it past Bibi doing something stupid to 'get back' at Iran and ending up pulling them more fully into the conflict.
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Oct 8, 2023 01:25
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Fox is already spinning up the whole 'this is actually and Iranian plot' and are somehow trying to tie Biden's recent negotiation with Iran to get US prisoners released as somehow part of it as well. There was one report (way too early for confirmation) that Hamas claimed Iranian support in the prep. The Biden prisoner deal was a talking point early ($6B of Iranian oil money in South Korea released for US-approved humanitarian use only with veto power for five hostages)... except none of that $6B in funding had been spent yet for absolutely anything. The rest is to be determined, but determined with a whole lot of blood.
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Oct 8, 2023 01:32
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orange juche posted:The people in intelligence's jobs is to provide actionable intelligence to the decision makers, so that decisions can be made. They did that, most likely, because Mossad has eyes loving everywhere, especially in Hamas. I'd be shocked if the discussion around every breakfast table in Israel tomorrow isn't along the very same lines we've had ITT, people aren't stupid but a lot of people might be okay with it
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Oct 8, 2023 01:33
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Thanksgiving is gonna be fun for sure. Can’t wait to hear the hot takes from my ex Egyptian SF pops on this one. Also let me know if anyone gets some 65 Indonesia vibes.
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Oct 8, 2023 01:33
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TheWeedNumber posted:
months ago
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Oct 8, 2023 01:36
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Proud Christian Mom posted:compared to the genocidal state of Israel theyre absolutely the good guys lmao idk how to tell you my nigga but the Arabs would have killed them all by now if they could. Certainly during the Cold War for sure. Did they turn into monsters in the process, yep Israel sure is that hosed up apartheid state. Does my daddy still brag about when Jews get smoked and it makes the news? Yes. Did he tell his 12 year old son, beaming with pride, about the time he and the platoon he commanded played soccer with Israeli skulls during the Yom Kippur war? Also yes. Ain’t no good here. It’s hosed all around. Everyone involved is indoc’d to hate and kill to various degrees. But yeah, sure, the militants who were gonna kill Jews just to kill them anyway are the good guys tm. Roger that b. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 8, 2023 01:37
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shame on an IGA posted:months ago Nah more like what happens after October 1st b. Which, well if anyone ever needed a pretext, this is it. Big poppa busy at home and w the Ukraine. They ain’t got no Supreme Court worth mentioning anymore. I shudder to think what comes next.
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Oct 8, 2023 01:56
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yeah, at least from the pov of Israel's enemies, if there ever was a fortuitous moment to kick something off against israel then this likely would be it. things are no doubt a shitshow on a bunch of levels because of the judicial overhaul and yeah US ability to provide support is almost certainly at the lowest point it will be for a while regardless of whatever statements to the contrary are made publicly. this wasn't that long ago and if your fighter pilots are making insubordinate noises then jfc you've got some big problems. and that was before they ended up passing that judicial overhaul https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64866873
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Oct 8, 2023 02:53
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I don't think there would be much outside poo poo, but it's this timeline. There is little doubt they had Iranian support based solely on OSINT- lots of Iraninan (and only Iranian) made ordnance.
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Oct 8, 2023 02:54
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im sure the sauds have helped out as well
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Oct 8, 2023 03:28
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 16:39 |
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I don't see any difference between Israel and Rhodesia, except that one group of white people had the added smokescreen for settler colonialism of "Jewish".
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Oct 8, 2023 04:00
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