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"she wanted to help since she'd get a name in return!" the issue isn't that she didn't ask politely, it's that she knew the fairies weren't inclined to nobly sacrifice their lives for the sake of some psycho dead chick, and calculated she could buy them off with a name like she was trading Manhattan for some glass beads. If your friends really are in the habit of thinking about all the things they can squeeze out of you for (to them) minor favors, they're not your friends; they're kinda your enemies. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 20:46
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"Names mean a lot to us" *makes up random jibberish* "That's your name!" "I love it *grumbles*" "Hahaha just kidding! Your real name is FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUANNNIE!!!" "I LOVE IT!"
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Mar 8, 2017 20:49
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:you don't hold something your friend desperately wants that it'd cost you literally nothing to give them over their head to control their behavior. The friendly thing to do there, were Antimony of a mind to give her a name at all, would be to just... give her one. Lmao right. It is insane to me that people are defending Annie making this deal.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:52
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Smh guys if the natives thought Manhattan was worth a dollar then it was a fair and good deal.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:53
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Everything is surreal and dreamlike when fairies are involved
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Mar 8, 2017 20:54
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If this was a dream, it'd mean that this is Annie just talking to herself, and then when she wakes up either we'd get a repeat of what we just saw or everyone would turn out to be fine with what happened. Neither would be great. Also, it would mean she dreamed about Red telling Ayilu she loved her, which is weird. Basically "it was all just a dream" is never a good twist, and it's not about to start being one.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:25
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EmmyOk posted:Yeah I agree with the "it's a nightmare" posters. This page in particular has the cadence of the kind of nightmare where everything appears normal and then everyone starts telling you it's all your fault. I fully expect someone to turn to a skeleton or have gaping wounds and Annie to snap awake. So did that time her dad came back, and it turned out to just be her incredibly lovely life.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:26
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You know manoeuvring people into risking their lives without twigging the emotional implications of doing it is a very... no1 dad thing to do
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Mar 8, 2017 21:35
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Was not expecting Red to lay down the hard truths and mike drop at the end with Smitty. In the bigger picture Annie's been dealing with issues that even the adults in the court can't handle or solve. I also wonder how this will effect her relationship with the rest of the people she is friends with let alone what the Court will do if they find out that their medium was almost shanked in a ravine.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:36
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Come to think of it if Tony is any indication of how the court operates they might just offer her a job and a licence to kill
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Mar 8, 2017 21:41
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Combed Thunderclap posted:It's just surreal and dream-like to see Red act serious at all ever while saying things that sound like negative self-talk more than reality ("You left him bleeding to death with a knife in his chest" doesn't describe what happened; Annie didn't leave him there, she made some sort of very personal sacrifice to fix poo poo and Andrew's doing fine as a result). While I agree that it does sound like negative self-talk, it's also not a lie: Annie did literally leave him there for the 7 pages between when elf-boy grabbed her leg and when she finished sending Jeanne and the elf-boy down the river. That was pretty cold and I remember the thread remarking on her priorities vis-à-vis Smitty's plight at the time.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:54
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ComradeCosmobot posted:While I agree that it does sound like negative self-talk, it's also not a lie: Annie did literally leave him there for the 7 pages between when elf-boy grabbed her leg and when she finished sending Jeanne and the elf-boy down the river. That was pretty cold and I remember the thread remarking on her priorities vis-à-vis Smitty's plight at the time. It was several seconds, and why the heck wasn't Parley teleporting him to a hospital, and also she had to promise her soul to people way older than her with immense power who quite clearly don't have her best interests in mind. Everyone knew facing the murderghost could result in murder, you guys are being super loving hard on an emotionally stunted child.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:05
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:"she wanted to help since she'd get a name in return!" It's not about asking politely, it's that you're assuming Annie went full Machiavellian beep boop robot, looking to exploit people for minimal cost, vs. Annie asking for help from her friends and trying to return the favour however she could. Sure, yeah ok we have Red asserting that literally the only reason Aliyu agreed to help was for the name, but is she right? For all we know Aliyu would have agreed to help without any reward because they're friends, or she thought Jeanne was someone worth helping and the name is just a bonus. My point is we kind of don't know- we have Red's side of things, we don't have Ayilu's perspective, which is probably even more important. Now, ok I'm getting drawn onto a side of this debate I'm not actually 100% on. I think it's totally possible that yeah, Annie did go all end-justify-the-means and coerced Ayilu with an unfair bargain. And also that even if she didn't, even if she had the best intentions here and didn't consider the mismatch, she's getting involved in heavy things and has a lot of responsibility- she has to think about those things, and so deserves to get called out either way.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:20
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Considering Jeanne almost killed them the first time, Parrley at least knew the risks. I would bet money that Smitty and Kat were also fully aware that they were risking their lives. Also Annie is just a kid who had all of this dumped on her lap by some lovely adults, just like a lot of the bad stuff that happens in her life. Also, it's likely that she rushed along taking Jeanne to the other side, so she could have a bargaining chip with the psychopomps. She knew they could save Smitty after all. Like if it went down as Red said, then sure it was crappy for her to tempt blue with that if she wasn't fully aware of the risks but nothing else she is saying is valid. Even with that again, she's a kid put in a bad situation by people who really don't have her best interests at heart (which is really like 99% of the court, forest, psychopomps and everyone else on the long list of people who are using her for something or another). It's pretty crappy to put all this on her alone.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:21
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Bringing Smitty and bringing Ayilu were honestly really different moral calculuses (not that Annie was ever really doing calculus). Smitty is nearly an adult, is employed by the Court to handle mystical matters on their behalf, and knew about Jeanne beforehand and agreed to risk his life in order to help her without asking for anything in return. He has enough background to understand the risks. Ayilu is a non-human hybrid whose intellectual and emotional maturity is hard to evaluate, but is definitely subnormal in some respects. She's from a race that kills themselves as part of a trial and may not fully understand that she can't survive doing that in her new body. Annie bribed her with early access to something she would eventually get anyway without really understanding why the Court waits to name fairies (their reasons may be weird and selfish but Annie doesn't actually know them). Anyway, Annie obviously didn't really think about this, probably because she just assumed everything would go well because she's not prepared to grasp the concept of "me and all my friends die" at her age, but she basically bribed a child to risk her life by offering to let her graduate from school early via a rules exploit.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:40
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If this is a dream then that means....... We're going to have to sit through another four weeks of updates of Blue getting a name all over again, once Annie wakes up Noooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mar 8, 2017 22:52
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Mazerunner posted:It's not about asking politely, it's that you're assuming Annie went full Machiavellian beep boop robot, looking to exploit people for minimal cost, vs. Annie asking for help from her friends and trying to return the favour however she could. that wasn't Red saying that; it was Antimony's version of the deal, from the most recent strip, the one that lays out why what she did was hosed up. i mean if you wanna write fanfiction about how exactly that off-screen conversation went down and how it's totally being misrepresented by the characters, whatever man, but I'm talking about the comic strip Tom makes.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:53
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:that wasn't Red saying that; it was Antimony's version of the deal, from the most recent strip, the one that lays out why what she did was hosed up. but it's Red's assertion that Annie was thinking she got a good deal, that she was manipulating people, and that Ayilu lost all agency here. Again, you're probably right, that Annie did overstep but all I'm saying is this isn't the end. There's lots of room for rebuttal, apologies or additional context from Annie or Ayilu, so going to "Annie is 100% sociopath" is jumping the gun.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:04
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Annie not thinking about how her actions affect other people would not exactly be a new development in her character though. Those of you acting like Annie being a selfish, manipulative dick is a new thing haven't read the same dang comic.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:25
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Mulva posted:So did that time her dad came back, and it turned out to just be her incredibly lovely life. Sure agreed. I mean it could absolutely be straight and I'd be fine with that, just at the moment that's how it feels. Strategic Tea posted:You know manoeuvring people into risking their lives without twigging the emotional implications of doing it is a very... no1 dad thing to do No it isn't, Tony just disappeared by himself. It is a different brand of indifferent cruelty. Also for whomever said it, "It was all a dreammmmmmm" and "this seeming innocent scene turns dark and accusatory and it's a nightmare" are both clichés but very different ones.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:32
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Also The Court would not give Annie a High-5 and license to kill, after all they didn't approve of what Tony was doing they just didn't care (also lolin hard at him) and yanked on his leash when they wanted him back.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:39
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Combed Thunderclap posted:It's just surreal and dream-like to see Red act serious at all ever while saying things that sound like negative self-talk more than reality ("You left him bleeding to death with a knife in his chest" doesn't describe what happened; Annie didn't leave him there, she made some sort of very personal sacrifice to fix poo poo and Andrew's doing fine as a result). Sorry, but that's what it looked like; and there were a ton of jokes about that in this very thread. What happened: 1. Smitty gets stabbed 2. Annie is grabbed by a ghost 3. Annie puts on a hairclip while Smitty bleeds to death 4. Annie chats with ghosts while Smitty bleeds to death 5. Annie leads the ghosts to the boat while Smitty bleeds to death 6. Annie look at the ghosts disappearing in the sunset while Smitty bleeds to death 7. Annie tell Parley not to teleport away to seek help for Smitty who is bleeding to death 8. Annie talks to the psychopomps while Smitty bleeds to death 9. Smitty is magically healed Now Annie's actions were all rational and effective if you knew beforehand that Smitty would be able to hand around long enough for the magic cure and that Annie could get a magic cure in the first place. We have no reason to believe Red and Blue knew about the latter; and the former wasn't a given for anyone, including Annie. And yes you can argue that getting rid of the ghosts was the number one priority and that if they had focused on Smitty instead then Jeanne might have come out of her surprise and turned murderghost again. As for the very personal sacrifice thing, well, nobody knows what it entails exactly, there have been no visible consequence so far. That sacrifice, if Red was even paying attention to Annie's negotiations at the time, is as irrelevant to Red as Blue's name was to Annie. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 00:02
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Considering their general tendency to reveal themselves, it might be more on the lines of:Cat Mattress posted:8. Annie talks to empty space while Smitty bleeds to death
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Mar 9, 2017 00:06
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Was Ayilu ever particularly friends with Annie? Red has been ever since her first reappearance in that episode about haircuts but she's always been the one to interact with the main cast since.
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Mar 9, 2017 01:11
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The fairies are so flighty. One moment they're asking Annie to kill them in the canyon, the next they're mad at her for risking their lives!
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Mar 9, 2017 01:45
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I think its pretty cool the way Red is totally absolving herself of any responsibility in distracting Blue from her job and nearly getting her killed.
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Mar 9, 2017 02:04
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Reene posted:Annie not thinking about how her actions affect other people would not exactly be a new development in her character though. there's a difference between not thinking the implications and consequences totally through, and coldly but knowingly manipulating people against their best interests. Annie could have legitimately thought that offering a name was a suitable reward. It's still wrong and lovely, but it's more along the lines of negligence, rather than maliciousness.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:03
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Bilirubin posted:I think its pretty cool the way Red is totally absolving herself of any responsibility in distracting Blue from her job and nearly getting her killed. We have a winner.
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Mar 9, 2017 03:05
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Mazerunner posted:there's a difference between not thinking the implications and consequences totally through, and coldly but knowingly manipulating people against their best interests. She has done the latter before though. She was even called out on her bullshit by the person she was trying to manipulate.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:38
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Reene posted:She has done the latter before though. She was even called out on her bullshit by the person she was trying to manipulate. Jack was also being a dick, though. Like, that's not to excuse her or anything, but that was more two teens being mean to each other.
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Mar 9, 2017 11:42
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My favorite part about the plan is that Jeanne would have murdered every single one of them if not for the fact that Kat is a machine god. A fact that no one in the cast is aware of. It was really the worst possible plan, or perhaps more specifically, the murderghost was so dangerous that every plan was equally terrible except for a literal deus ex machina.
A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 9, 2017 |
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Mar 9, 2017 19:10
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I thought it worked because she's ethericly really boring, so the crazy maze town red herring was  'd away, like with the RotD.Still not something they were planning on though.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:16
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Their list ditch plan was to try to connect Kat with the arrow to see if she could make sense of it. Kat reverse engineered the tech in the first place, so while it's playing pretty fast and loose as far as plans go, it isn't utter nonsense.
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Mar 9, 2017 19:48
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Splicer posted:I thought it worked because she's ethericly really boring, so the crazy maze town red herring was I think it's more that she is etherically very large and complex so when she comes across other things that are very large and complex they look pretty pedestrian to her.
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Mar 10, 2017 04:16
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Mazerunner posted:there's a difference between not thinking the implications and consequences totally through, and coldly but knowingly manipulating people against their best interests. It's also not wrong to offer payment that doesn't have great value to you, as long it's adequate compensation. Employers do that all the time, especially in dangerous jobs. But that's more of a state of mind question: How does Annie actually see her relationship with Red and Ayilu? She may very well need this wake-up call about other people having emotions and fears and stuff, but she's also more of a manipulative Court leader kinda person in general.
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Mar 10, 2017 04:44
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The next subject of debate for this thread: Was prolonging Smitty's suffering to keep a secret good actually?
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Mar 10, 2017 09:04
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Oookay? I mean, did I misread something? The only time Annie asked them to wait was when she asked the Spirit Guides for healing, which took a minute or two at best.
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Mar 10, 2017 09:07
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Are you kidding it took weeks! 
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Mar 10, 2017 09:08
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Roland Jones posted:The next subject of debate for this thread: Was prolonging Smitty's suffering to keep a secret good actually? No that's pretty messed up. Like mayyybe if she thought that a doctor might not be able to save him, so having them stick around while she bargained with the 'paths, it'd be ok, but in order to keep a secret? A secret that is almost certainly going to be found out very quickly, if they don't already know? e; although... again this is kind of twisting things. It's not like taking Smitty to a doctor would instantly heal him or cause him to really be in that much less pain. but... really it's more gambling with his life- take the chance that the psychopaths will completely heal him, at the cost of precious time that would be critical if they didn't. Uh, anyway still not relevant to "I wanted to keep a secret". Mazerunner fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Mar 10, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 09:08
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Well Tea san you've made a logic point the readers have been asking and shown exactly why none of them did. And used said point to drive stake through Annie's conscience.
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