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Squizzle posted:What is the deal with that, anyway? Compared to other, uh, clades of superpeople, mutants have conspicuously many people with certain kinds of power. There are so goddamn many mutant teleporters, psychics, power mimics/thieves, and probably a couple of other things I'm forgetting about. With the psychics, I think it's pretty clearly the "default" mutant ability, as originally conceived. The first mention of "mutants" in Marvel comics was a pre-FF #1 Tale to Astonish or some such that featured a group of mutants that had been in hiding from humanity until they were ready to deal with their existence. The "mutants" were all psychics. From a sci-fi standpoint, it's a pretty common period conception of the "next" version of man, or of aliens that are supposed to be smarter than us, or whatever. With the other powers, I think it's more of a symptom of mutants almost never being solo heroes and people filling tropes about what their idea of a team needs. Or maybe people just don't spend enough time thinking it through, I'm not sure. I don't know why Claremont would introduce Lila Chaney, a huge scale teleporter with serious limitations on her power, to a book that already had Magik. I also don't know if Lila's still alive in current continuity. You don't really have to bother to kill off galaxy-travelers, I guess. Lila Chaney, galactic rockstar, is cool, though.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:24
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Same, but with FF, at least xmen got some good versions of their iconic characters. Literally every FF movie has hosed up Doctor Doom to an embarassing degree.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:29
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I don't have any problem with Fox having the rights since those movies are actually mostly decent, I just wish that Marvel/Disney wouldn't passive-aggressively block games and animated shows etc. and marginalize X-men in the comics because of it. Fox aren't going to make less money from their movies because they do that!Blockhouse posted:They're just now allowing mutants into Contest of Champions though. Maybe something changed? I think Contest of Champions was the last game that got to sign their contract back when Disney still was kinda ok with mutants. Games released after that have had none as far as I am aware. Kainser fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 19:41
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Rhyno posted:They offered Fox a shitload of money for the rights to just a few of the FF villains and Fox spit in their face. Like stated above, they would rights-squat than allow Disney to make money. My understanding was the offer was Fox keeps the Daredevil rights in exchange for Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox turned it down which gave us the Netflix series.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:55
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Kainser posted:I don't have any problem with Fox having the rights since those movies are actually mostly decent, I just wish that Marvel/Disney wouldn't passive-aggressively block games and animated shows etc. and marginalize X-men in the comics because of it. Fox aren't going to make less money from their movies because they do that! The world now loves Iron Man, Captain America, the Guardians of the Galaxy, and most of Marvel's other film properties, plus the Spider-Man characters they share some money with Sony from. Sticking Fox film properties into stuff alongside those popular Marvel properties is just giving away advertising and goodwill to Fox.
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Jan 28, 2016 20:12
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Also, Isaac Perlmutter is really ind of crazy. So being this petty makes total sense, when you consider we're talking about corporate executives and their egos, and not rational human beings.
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Jan 28, 2016 20:42
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What was happening to Marvel at the time they signed those deals (concerning the XMen and Spidy films)? Why give away so much? Did they just not have the movie making formula right until Captain America and Iron Man? vvvvv That feels like ages ago vvvvv BetterToRuleInHell fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 22:32
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:What was happening to Marvel at the time they signed those deals
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Jan 28, 2016 22:33
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Dacap posted:My understanding was the offer was Fox keeps the Daredevil rights in exchange for Silver Surfer and Galactus. Fox turned it down which gave us the Netflix series. There was a huge chunk of cash attached to that as well. And when Fox refused they offered more money outright. And part of it was Fox thought DD was worthless at that point. Then Disney gives it to Netflix and they make this amazing show that sets a streaming record so no Fox is even more adamant about clinging to what they have.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:34
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Yeah, all the contracts got drawn up and executed in the mid-90s, when Marvel was very close to shutting down. Comictalk: Ororo is gonna become the new Cyclops, despite her objections to Scott's leadership methods. "Hey Logan, sanction Sunfire if he doesn't play ball." "Didn't you leave the X-men for a while because of X-Force killing people?" "..." CYCLOPS WAS RIGHT
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Jan 28, 2016 22:40
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You either die a hero or live long enough to lead the X-Men.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:43
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Rhyno posted:There was a huge chunk of cash attached to that as well. And when Fox refused they offered more money outright. And part of it was Fox thought DD was worthless at that point. Then Disney gives it to Netflix and they make this amazing show that sets a streaming record so no Fox is even more adamant about clinging to what they have. Until it was handily beaten by Adam Sandler.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:46
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The Marvel/Fox feud nonsense is the dumbest poo poo ever from a fan's perspective. It's a shame that Marvel's movie success and general rise in awareness has lead to the slow death of my favorite characters which significantly carried the company for two decades on their own popularity.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:00
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Cocks Cable posted:The Marvel/Fox feud nonsense is the dumbest poo poo ever from a fan's perspective. It's a shame that Marvel's movie success and general rise in awareness has lead to the slow death of my favorite characters which significantly carried the company for two decades on their own popularity. It's Disney and Fox, everyone at Marvel Comics probably wants to just keep churning out mutant books.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:11
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Yvonmukluk posted:Also, Isaac Perlmutter is really ind of crazy. So being this petty makes total sense, when you consider we're talking about corporate executives and their egos, and not rational human beings. Yeah, supposedly a lot of this is due to a personal feud between the leaders of the companies which is why things have escalated a bit recently. It only really hurts the fans at this point.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:16
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Not to sound like a loving psychopath or anything but all the problems at Marvel could probably be solved by someone putting Ike in a coma he will never wake up from.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:18
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I some how doubt all of this can be pinned on just one bad guy (Perlmutter). I'm willing to bet that the next guy to take over would likely follow the same strategy. Because from a marketing and brand synergy standpoint, it makes some sense from a purely profit driven mindset. Why promote properties that you can't monetize in movie form? It doesn't really hurt to add Wolverine/Storm/Cylops to some Marvel themed skinner box game, but it doesn't help either. Movie characters and characters they have potential movie rights for will always take priority and there is an endless supply of them to introduce to the general public. Disney is going to play the long game of slowly weening fans off X-Men/FF and more towards Avengers/Spiderman brand characters starting with non-comic mass market products.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:55
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Cocks Cable posted:I some how doubt all of this can be pinned on just one bad guy (Perlmutter). I'm willing to bet that the next guy to take over would likely follow the same strategy. Because from a marketing and brand synergy standpoint, it makes some sense from a purely profit driven mindset. Why promote properties that you can't monetize in movie form? It doesn't really hurt to add Wolverine/Storm/Cylops to some Marvel themed skinner box game, but it doesn't help either. Movie characters and characters they have potential movie rights for will always take priority and there is an endless supply of them to introduce to the general public. Disney is going to play the long game of slowly weening fans off X-Men/FF and more towards Avengers/Spiderman brand characters starting with non-comic mass market products. I'm just not sure how effective this will be since the Inhumans are the most uninteresting characters I've read in a long time.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:57
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HIJK posted:I'm just not sure how effective this will be since the Inhumans are the most uninteresting characters I've read in a long time. But the comics ultimately don't matter much. Movies are a much wider mass-appeal vector and provide the medium to re-invent these characters with a $200 million budget and all the focal groups and design committees that brings. Marvel/Disney have already taken boring lesser known characters and spun them into gold.
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Jan 29, 2016 01:33
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Rhyno posted:They offered Fox a shitload of money for the rights to just a few of the FF villains and Fox spit in their face. Like stated above, they would rights-squat than allow Disney to make money. Disney are the kings of rights-squatting and already own like 40% of all pop culture, I'd spite them too if I was in that position.
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Jan 29, 2016 01:38
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X-Men are better off in their own universe anyway.
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Jan 29, 2016 01:43
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Almost definitely. The civil rights metaphor barely works as-is, having other accepted supers just muddies it further.
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Jan 29, 2016 01:46
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Yeah, the X-Men movie situation is fine actually. It's the issues it causes with other X-Men stuff that sucks. The F4 with Marvel would be nice, though. Mainly for their villains, but I'd love to see some on-screen Tony/Reed scenes.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:09
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Inhumans are better anyway, about time they got some of the focus.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:16
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They're basically the worst.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:19
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Aphrodite posted:They're basically the worst. Blackagar Boltagon.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:22
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Black Bolt loving rocks and "more Inhumans" would sound great to me two or three years ago. I liked the Inhumans, not Chinese knock off X-Men.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:48
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Yeah, the old inhumans were pretty rad. Hamfistedly trying to make them Mutants v.2 isn't that great though.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:51
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WickedHate posted:Black Bolt loving rocks and "more Inhumans" would sound great to me two or three years ago. I liked the Inhumans, not Chinese knock off X-Men. No no, the Chinese knock-off X-men were The People.
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Jan 29, 2016 02:52
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Lurdiak posted:Almost definitely. The civil rights metaphor barely works as-is, having other accepted supers just muddies it further. Eh that doesn't really bother me and I don't see why it should bother any one else, racism itself is generally muddled and illogical. The fact we don't have whole charts to see just how mutant you are is the unrealistic part.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:14
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CharlestheHammer posted:Eh that doesn't really bother me and I don't see why it should bother any one else, racism itself is generally muddled and illogical. The fact we don't have whole charts to see just how mutant you are is the unrealistic part. Holy poo poo a bunch of puns of dubious taste just popped into my head.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:16
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Lurdiak posted:No no, the Chinese knock-off X-men were The People. Korean.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:23
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Rhyno posted:Korean. They were actually the product of a really dumb fictionalized east asian version of the EU.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:26
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If you want to know how in depth it got, the French devised a system that went all the way to 1/128. They were really in depth.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:If you want to know how in depth it got, the French devised a system that went all the way to 1/128. They were really in depth. Yeah, the most realistic part about Mutants being hated is that from an ordinary persons stand point there shouldn't be a difference between them and every other super hero, but they think there is.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:36
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CharlestheHammer posted:If you want to know how in depth it got, the French devised a system that went all the way to 1/128. They were really in depth. The least offensive pun was octorootant.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:49
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Skwirl posted:Yeah, the most realistic part about Mutants being hated is that from an ordinary persons stand point there shouldn't be a difference between them and every other super hero, but they think there is. I've had this arguement before, but part of the hate is that you don't know who could be a mutant in a red menace sort of way. They might not all directly fear the X-Men, but the idea that your neighbor, coworker, or congressman is secretly a mutant looking to undermine your entire species? Nobody fears the Avengers because they're super soldiers with no real agenda besides saving people. The X-Men though? My kids schoolmate turned into a terrifying rock monster, and the X-Men whisked him away instead of turning him into a respected government institution like SHIELD.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:48
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Yup, mutant bigotry isn't at all about the powers themselves. It's all about the context surrounding how they get them, who gets them, when they get them, where their powers come from, and how they're seen as a community. But even so, the X-Men got so unimaginably popular in the mid-seventies on that they ended up building their own little mini universe that operates just fine without anything from the outside mucking it up.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:56
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there are absolutely also bigots who consider the Avengers to be "the good ones", the exception they can point at to defend themselves
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Jan 29, 2016 06:06
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Aren't most mutants suppose to be Morlock-league level hideous with lame or gross powers? The Avengers as the public know them are like exact opposite of that. They're beautiful unblemished white people decorated in the accouterments of patriotism or sexy silicon valley stylish tech.
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Jan 29, 2016 06:16
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