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Pollyanna posted:This bodes quite well for the future of the left in the US. Melodramatics. This is a tempest in a teapot.
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Aug 7, 2017 20:52
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Syndlig posted:Danny is and always will be a staunch supporter of the cause. He would never say or do anything if he believed for a microsecond that it could potentially harm DSA. I am not a part of Austin DSA leadership, just a member, but knowing Danny, he's talking to the NPC so they can determine what is the best possible way forward. I'm gonna rephrase the responses in a less edgy way: How would you feel if say a NPC elected from Wisconsin or something weasel worded his way out of saying he's worked with the police in some fashion? Edit: he either lied or was absent minded enough to figure that this wasn't a big enough deal. Either reason is good enough to call for disqualification from national leadership
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Aug 7, 2017 21:06
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Raskolnikov38 posted:also lmao that the probably first action of the new NPC is a purge A left that purges together, surges together?
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Aug 7, 2017 21:07
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Also the dude from Austin has every right to be upset and goons trying to get the edgiest post at him isn't really cool considering the context of the org
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Aug 7, 2017 21:09
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Business Gorillas posted:I'm gonna rephrase the responses in a less edgy way: It's possible he didn't specify it because, from his perspective, he's been explaining it for years and felt it was finally behind him. No one actually knows what his rationale was and he hasn't even issued a statement.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:17
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My favorite is the dude who said CLEAT covers EMS and fire too. I've never heard of our local cop union sticking up for EMS/Fire even though some individual cops frequently do.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:31
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chicago, il despite joining up at a really exciting time and living minutes away from the conference I haven't been able to get out to anything yet thanks to family stuff :\
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Aug 7, 2017 21:32
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Thug Lessons posted:It's possible he didn't specify it because, from his perspective, he's been explaining it for years and felt it was finally behind him. No one actually knows what his rationale was and he hasn't even issued a statement. lol what the gently caress
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Aug 7, 2017 21:32
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Larry Parrish posted:My favorite is the dude who said CLEAT covers EMS and fire too. I've never heard of our local cop union sticking up for EMS/Fire even though some individual cops frequently do. https://www.cleat.org/14703-2/ Police and prison guards.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:37
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deep web creep posted:chicago, il this sounds like something a cop would say 
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Aug 7, 2017 21:42
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Okay, I know I'm jumping in out of nowhere here but this whole thing has been eating at me since I found out about it, and I would really like a bit of clarity on two points. First, what are the chances that Fetonte stays on the NPC, and second, if he does stay how many of you would consider that reason to leave the DSA? I know I should probably put more trust in the people who just voted overwhelmingly in favor of police abolition, but I have to admit this has got me kind of shook.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:50
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Okay, I know I'm jumping in out of nowhere here but this whole thing has been eating at me since I found out about it, and I would really like a bit of clarity on two points. First, what are the chances that Fetonte stays on the NPC, and second, if he does stay how many of you would consider that reason to leave the DSA? At this point, I don't see a way he stays on but I've got no power. There might have been a way but Austin dropped the ball on the response. I'm red and mad and nude at about fifty people and at this point and Danny barely breaks the top ten.
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Aug 7, 2017 21:57
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I didn't go to the NH DSA meeting last Sunday because I came down sick, but I heard things went well so I guess I worried over nothing. Also meeting a Socialist Alternative dude from the town over tomorrow to discuss what we can do in our towns.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:02
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I met that guy at the only DSA meeting I went to, if he's a spy for the police he's a good one. I didn't get a police/military vibe at all from him. Having ideological slapfights every five minutes isn't going to help our cause at all, and having witch-hunts will destroy what little credibility the DSA has.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:04
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Okay, I know I'm jumping in out of nowhere here but this whole thing has been eating at me since I found out about it, and I would really like a bit of clarity on two points. First, what are the chances that Fetonte stays on the NPC, and second, if he does stay how many of you would consider that reason to leave the DSA? I think the best take is: Thug Lessons posted:Melodramatics. This is a tempest in a teapot. It's all twitter poo poo. He's under observation (whether justly or unjustly) and it's all going come out in the next few days.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:05
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His Purple Majesty posted:I met that guy at the only DSA meeting I went to, if he's a spy for the police he's a good one. I didn't get a police/military vibe at all from him. Having ideological slapfights every five minutes isn't going to help our cause at all, and having witch-hunts will destroy what little credibility the DSA has. he lied about working for a cop union
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Aug 7, 2017 22:07
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He lied about working for one of the last remaining unions in the country?!?!? Holy heck! It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone in law enforcement to change thier minds everyone knows that!!!
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Aug 7, 2017 22:08
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His Purple Majesty posted:He lied about working for one of the last remaining unions in the country?!?!? Holy heck! It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone in law enforcement to change thier minds everyone knows that!!! Rethink this
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Aug 7, 2017 22:09
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Phi230 posted:Rethink this
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Aug 7, 2017 22:14
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honestly electing a single police union organizer and then immediately discovering it is a better track record than the bolsheviks
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Aug 7, 2017 22:14
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His Purple Majesty posted:having witch-hunts will destroy what little credibility the DSA has. His Purple Majesty posted:He lied about working for one of the last remaining unions in the country?!?!? Holy heck! It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone in law enforcement to change thier minds everyone knows that!!! This is actually what destroys DSA's credibility lmbo
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Aug 7, 2017 22:14
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Guys guys, now hold your horses! Sure they are ex CEOs but they were organizing for the executives union, lots of good stuff in there, solidarity with our gold comrades
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Aug 7, 2017 22:16
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oppression is perpetrated by those with power, so it's important that we remove anyone with power from our ranks, to ensure we have as little power as possible and thereby aren't complicit in oppression an excellent strategy for a national political movement
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Aug 7, 2017 22:19
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making GBS threads on a guy via social media for making his money organizing people, people who he could talk to about leftist issues and give them a new way of thinking, people who are lower or middle class who have maybe a high school diploma and a couple years in the military, will surely convince the proles of your cause!
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Aug 7, 2017 22:19
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His Purple Majesty posted:making GBS threads on a guy via social media for making his money organizing people, people who he could talk to about leftist issues and give them a new way of thinking, people who are lower or middle class who have maybe a high school diploma and a couple years in the military, will surely convince the proles of your cause! actually its because he lied about it in a leadership election where it definitely would have affected his chances
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Aug 7, 2017 22:23
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Humidora posted:This is actually what destroys DSA's credibility lmbo Yeah, at first I was prepared to shrug it off as an honest mistake, but this "cops are workers too" horseshit is just absolutely disgusting. His Purple Majesty posted:making GBS threads on a guy via social media for making his money organizing people, people who he could talk to about leftist issues and give them a new way of thinking, people who are lower or middle class who have maybe a high school diploma and a couple years in the military, will surely convince the proles of your cause! The cops will never be our friends. The whole reason the police exist is to guard wealth and power. It is literally their job to keep people like us down.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:33
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This guy ultimately has to go because he's so unpopular with members but I find the way he's being hounded out depressing. You had people posting "why isn't he purged yet" within hours of the CLEAT stuff surfacing.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:34
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TrilliontonNixon posted:Yeah, at first I was prepared to shrug it off as an honest mistake, but this "cops are workers too" horseshit is just absolutely disgusting. So cops aren't workers? How so
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Aug 7, 2017 22:40
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Even more so than what actually happened, I think what's even more troubling is how many people here and elsewhere seem willing to defend allowing police into a nominally socialist organization. I keep harping on it and I'm sorry but if you are a socialist then one of your chief goals is to help organize working class people to stand up and exert their power over the capitalist class. The surest way to do this is through mass protest and labor strikes and police and police organizations work very hard to stop and undermine these actions because that is their whole purpose for existing. If you allow police into your organization and allow them to take part in decision making then they have the ability to actively undermine your efforts. Even assuming that there are police who would support the ultimate goals of socialists, the material reality is their support for arrestable actions can and would directly lead to conflict in terms of their employment and might lead to them being fired, reprimanded, etc. and it would be extremely dangerous to assume that these individuals would choose their dedication to socialism over their jobs since if they were actually that dedicated to socialism they probably would have picked a different profession in the first place or once they realized they were socialists. It;s unfortunate what happened but the aftermath has the potential to actually do a lot to help clarify what DSA is aiming to be. The organization has a lot of new membership that has honestly been unvetted in any way. There are anarchists working alongside police union organizers and that's a situation that really would be impossible to maintain indefinitely.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:41
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His Purple Majesty posted:So cops aren't workers? How so Buddy,
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Aug 7, 2017 22:41
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Thug Lessons posted:This guy ultimately has to go because he's so unpopular with members but I find the way he's being hounded out depressing. You had people posting "why isn't he purged yet" within hours of the CLEAT stuff surfacing. I'm thinking that's just social media being social media the discussion threads I've seen through the DSA and it's various caucuses are a lot more reasonable (they still, understandably, want him to step down) he's not a cop, you idiot
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Aug 7, 2017 22:41
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Minty posted:he's not a cop, you idiot I think the point they're making is about the broader debate that's come up that has shown a lot of DSA folks to be naive about letting cops in, not necessarily anything to do with the guy in question in particular.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:45
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His Purple Majesty posted:So cops aren't workers? How so they're worker-collaborators
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Aug 7, 2017 22:48
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I'm actually a lot more positive towards letting actual cops in than cop union organizers because cop unions are like the SS of cops
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Aug 7, 2017 22:49
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Thug Lessons posted:I'm actually a lot more positive towards letting actual cops in than cop union organizers because cop unions are like the SS of cops This is very true lmao
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Aug 7, 2017 22:50
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HiHo ChiRho posted:this sounds like something a cop would say nonsense. check out my extremely socialist resume: code:
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Aug 7, 2017 22:51
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Thug Lessons posted:I'm actually a lot more positive towards letting actual cops in than cop union organizers because cop unions are like the SS of cops supporting the unionizing of cops is basically how rosa died
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Aug 7, 2017 22:52
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We talked about cops in the DSA in this thread well before the convention. My opinion really hasn't changed from "if there shouldn't be cops in the DSA, then there should be a rule saying "no cops in the DSA." Part of the reason rules and guidelines exist is to set expectations. "We all got together and decided that we want things to be X, Y, Z." If you don't take time to set expectations then poo poo like this happens. I like the idea of stronger unions and have enjoyed my chats with IWW folks. I have been a manager my entire career and that bars me from (currently) being a member of the IWW. That's okay, I'll still advocate for them. But they had a rule, it set my expectations, and I didn't get upset.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:53
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His Purple Majesty posted:So cops aren't workers? How so Their job is literally being the guard dogs of capital and the powerful. Whether they work or not is immaterial, their work is in direct opposition with any left wing movement that intends to keep up with the platform DSA claims to have adopted.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:54
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The problem with police unions is that they don't organize police as workers against bosses, they organize them as police against citizens.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:56
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