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Doctor Grape Ape posted:Public Service Announcement: I've been working non-stop overtime the past two weeks. I think I know where some of that cash is going.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:13
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Jun 2, 2017 03:57
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Where are they taking it? And where's the rest? 
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Jun 2, 2017 04:30
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Doctor Grape Ape posted:And that ranks as the second dumbest thing they did! The dumbest thing being buying the property.
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Jun 2, 2017 04:33
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Platystemon posted:The dumbest thing being buying the property. You would think so...
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Jun 2, 2017 05:14
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Godholio posted:Where are they taking it? And where's the rest? Probably getting sold off to a dictator or PMC by some corrupt colonel.  e: real answer: https://starfighter.no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYh3AO_pXCE Anta fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 06:31
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priznat posted:Colour me surprised!! Only 2.4x??? Canada trying to essentially build clean-sheet fleet destroyers instead of just buying Flight III Arleigh Burkes from the US, or buying Type 45s from the UK, is hilarious, and will be a continuing source of F-35 level comedy for years to come. Thanks Canada! 
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Jun 2, 2017 16:08
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we are so hosed
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MrYenko posted:Canada trying to essentially build clean-sheet fleet destroyers instead of just buying Flight III Arleigh Burkes from the US, or buying Type 45s from the UK, is hilarious, and will be a continuing source of F-35 level comedy for years to come. Thanks Canada! Yeah this is going to be a far worse boondoggle than the F-35 because we're going it alone AND the F-35 actually exists now in an operational state more or less. Danish or French frigates along with a couple Burkes make so much more god drat sense but the dithering around will continue until the point where any option is going to be ridiculously expensive thanks to successive governments kicking the can down the road.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:20
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I don't know how I missed this but GMD finally hit something a few days ago. As far as I know this is the first successful hit to kill interception of an ICBM target thus proving the expenditure on this program was worthwhile.
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Jun 2, 2017 16:30
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priznat posted:Yeah this is going to be a far worse boondoggle than the F-35 because we're going it alone AND the F-35 actually exists now in an operational state more or less. I think the NSS is in some sense worthwhile but every new development moves me further into the "just buy from other people, I mean Jesus" camp For the record I now think Canada should buy Korean/American Flight III Arleigh Burkes and just build a existing class of frigate, it's clear the whole "replace 4 destroyers and 10 frigates with a new class of 15 ships that can DO ALL OF IT" is a dumb, bad project
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Jun 2, 2017 17:47
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They wouldn't even use off the shelf British equipment when they were members of the empire.
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Jun 2, 2017 17:55
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Nebakenezzer posted:I think the NSS is in some sense worthwhile but every new development moves me further into the "just buy from other people, I mean Jesus" camp  , I was onboard with a build ourself strategy but that is turning into such a shitshow. Some FREMMs or Huitfelds for frigates with 3-4 burkes for tribal class replacement along with the replenishment ships and we'd be pretty much set for another 30 years. Just ignore the subs and sink them to the bottom of nanoose bay or something.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:05
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Speaking of frigates, I know it'll never happen, but it would be extremely sensible if the commonwealth + USA just purchased variants of the new UK frigate. Get some worldwide economies of scale.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:15
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Ross Rifles for some, smashed in faces for others.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:18
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Sperglord posted:Speaking of frigates, I know it'll never happen, but it would be extremely sensible if the commonwealth + USA just purchased variants of the new UK frigate. Get some worldwide economies of scale. Nah, by 2050 the USN surface fleet will consist of ancient Nimitz class carriers, Burkes and a bunch of one off ships that cannot leave dock for more than a week before breaking.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:21
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bewbies posted:I don't know how I missed this but GMD finally hit something a few days ago. As far as I know this is the first successful hit to kill interception of an ICBM target thus proving the expenditure on this program was worthwhile. Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle is my new band name.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:48
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Sperglord posted:Speaking of frigates, I know it'll never happen, but it would be extremely sensible if the commonwealth + USA just purchased variants of the new UK frigate. Get some worldwide economies of scale. We're just about to start building the first one, they won't reach service till the 2020's. There's no way on Gods Green Earth we don't gently caress them up. They'll be substantial cost overruns, delays, capabilites stripped out for being too expensive. You know, the usual 
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Jun 2, 2017 18:59
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Deptfordx posted:We're just about to start building the first one, they won't reach service till the 2020's. There's no way on Gods Green Earth we don't gently caress them up. They'll be substantial cost overruns, delays, capabilites stripped out for being too expensive. You know, the usual I agree, about the only way to make Canada's situation worse is to license from the British.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:26
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A.o.D. posted:I've been working non-stop overtime the past two weeks. I think I know where some of that cash is going. Those things are apparently selling like crazy. I forgot to check on the 1st and they're sold out online. I actually called a nearby Lego store to ask (that's right, I'm that guy) and the lady laughed at me when I asked about it because they sold out of them in 10 minutes. They're getting more tomorrow apparently, so I'm going to see if I can snag one. There are bunch on eBay already but they're up around $200 already  (originally $119)
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Jun 2, 2017 23:10
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hannibal posted:Those things are apparently selling like crazy. I forgot to check on the 1st and they're sold out online. I actually called a nearby Lego store to ask (that's right, I'm that guy) and the lady laughed at me when I asked about it because they sold out of them in 10 minutes. They're getting more tomorrow apparently, so I'm going to see if I can snag one. Just put in a backorder on Lego.com and wait for it. Popular/new sets sell out like crazy, it's just a thing that Legos do, but they get replenished really fast. Give it a month or two and you'll more than likely be able to grab one easily on Amazon.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:13
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Nebakenezzer posted:I agree, about the only way to make Canada's situation worse is to license from the British. Canadian waters aren't warm enough to cause blackouts, you'll be just fine with British quality.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:06
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Nebakenezzer posted:I think the NSS is in some sense worthwhile but every new development moves me further into the "just buy from other people, I mean Jesus" camp I'm listening to the Hardcore History podcast on WWI (Blueprint for Armageddon) and Carlin talks about the new Battlecruisers in the British fleet in a very similar way. Admiralty: "All of the guns of a battleship but the maneuverability and speed of a cruiser!" Sailors: "Umm, how about some armour?" Admiralty: "Speed will be their armour!" Sailors: "Umm, ok" Battlecruiser magazines the first time they get tickled by the German 12-inch guns: *EXPLODES* Sailors: *DIE* Seriously though, the first encounter they had at Jutland was 6 British Battlecruisers vs. 5 German ones. The German ones had sacrificed some speed for up-armoured magazines and turrets. The British lost three Battlecruisers within 20 minutes of the engagement, all three with magazines blowing up, all three with less than 20 men out of a complement of 1000 surviving.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:22
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...Except armor wasn't the biggest problem with the battlecruisers at Jutland.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:33
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Sperglord Actual posted:...Except armor wasn't the biggest problem with the battlecruisers at Jutland. Using them as ships of the line was.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:35
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It certainly exacerbated the RN's lovely cordite handling practices.
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Jun 3, 2017 00:56
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Sperglord Actual posted:It certainly exacerbated the RN's lovely cordite handling practices. Which was an outgrowth of surprisingly bad gunnery skills, particularly in the battlecruiser fleet. I am given to understand that several squadrons in that fleet skipped gunnery practices in the months prior to the battle of Jutland. The solution to poor accuracy was thought to be a greater rate of fire (though to be fair, rapid feeding of the guns was a long standing tradition by that point in the RN).
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Jun 3, 2017 01:42
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Sperglord Actual posted:...Except armor wasn't the biggest problem with the battlecruisers at Jutland. Beatty really comes off as a tremendous tool in most of the modern books covering the RN up to and through the war.
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Jun 3, 2017 03:00
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Fearless posted:Which was an outgrowth of surprisingly bad gunnery skills, particularly in the battlecruiser fleet. I am given to understand that several squadrons in that fleet skipped gunnery practices in the months prior to the battle of Jutland. The solution to poor accuracy was thought to be a greater rate of fire (though to be fair, rapid feeding of the guns was a long standing tradition by that point in the RN). if I recall correctly, rate of fire was prized to the exclusion of every other concern, to include marksmanship, survivability, and safety.
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Jun 3, 2017 03:55
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The battlecruiser was a tremendous success and Dan Carlin is wrong. Doctrine on their use in fleet actions was questionable but even then the battlecruiser fight at Jutland probably would be remembered as a British success if Beatty hadn't run out vague and confusing signals.
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Jun 3, 2017 10:09
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Also the Germans had equally bad ammo handling procedures until they realised how close they came to losing Seydlitz at Dogger Bank and then radically overhauled safety procedures just in time for Jutland.
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Jun 3, 2017 10:12
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A.o.D. posted:if I recall correctly, rate of fire was prized to the exclusion of every other concern, to include marksmanship, survivability, and safety. Was it due to an inter-service pissing contest?
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Jun 3, 2017 10:29
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Arglebargle III posted:Dan Carlin is wrong. This is really all you needed.
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Jun 3, 2017 15:36
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Details? I'm not familiar with this Hardcore History or whatever.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:40
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Sperglord Actual posted:Details? I'm not familiar with this Hardcore History or whatever. The long and the short of it is that he draws from the secondary literature in a really uncritical way and frequently depends on historians who are way, way behind the curve as far as recent scholarship. I'm talking books from the 70s here. When he's telling an interesting narrative this isn't really a problem, but when he starts getting analytical it gets really obnoxious. Don't get me wrong, he can be entertaining, and doubly so if you're more or less ignorant about the subject. I had a lot of fun listening to his podcast on the Mongols, for example, because I knew gently caress all about Ghengis Khan other than the pop culture BS. Listening to him talk about the political run-up to WW1 made me want to throw a chair, however, and I have no doubt that somewhere out there is a historian of medieval Mongolia who feels the same way. edit: he also does this annoying thing where he goes out of his way to say he's not a historian, not an expert, and then in the next sentence gives you his analysis of why some major historical event happened, and in the WW1 stuff it was frequently really, really shallow. I've had more than one student take him as an expert. I've got no problem with popular history written for non-academic audiences. I'm a HUGE proponent of it in fact. The issue is that you need to at least be conversant with the actual scholarly literature so you don't put out bad info. edit x2: this is also my beef with Ambrose, only more so because that dude was a loving no bullshit academic historian and should have known better than to pawn off some of the bullshit that he did. But that's another rant. Carlin's a well meaning amateur with a microphone and an internet connection, but Citizen Soldiers (and Band of Brothers to a lesser extent) is inexcusable. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 17:48
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I remember the Ambrose rant. You should repost it some time. 
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Jun 3, 2017 17:52
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History is a field of argument.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:56
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I think Carlin's big strength is explaining what it was like to be on the ground in certain points in history, and getting you into the minds of the people involved. He's got a very good narrative style for that. I try to remember when I'm listening that he's just one perspective and getting a lot of this from other people's writings and analysis of the events.
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Jun 3, 2017 17:57
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I think Carlin's big strength is explaining what it was like to be on the ground in certain points in history, and getting you into the minds of the people involved. He's got a very good narrative style for that. I try to remember when I'm listening that he's just one perspective and getting a lot of this from other people's writings and analysis of the events. This is probably part of why I never got through his WW1 podcast. He spends a lot of time explaining why it happened and trots out a lot of time worn cliches. I remember some rambling thing about it being destiny because look at all these crazy coincidences and if any one of a dozen things hadn't happened exactly this way Sarajevo doesn't happen. Only, it ignores the roughly dozen times that various European powers almost threw down in the previous quarter century, the inherently destabilizing effect of the unification of Germany, and the fact that ll the various governments were pretty much on board with it being time to settle some major international issues through a quick war that their side would obviously win before winter. Also PUNCH DRUNK BOXERS. edit: I can not emphasize enough how badly he misreads the international political situation in 1914. He's drinking straight from a post-war narrative about the idlyic, peaceful, long 19th century being shattered by a war no one knew was coming, but that's very much a construct of the 50s and 60s.
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Jun 3, 2017 18:03
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So this isn't just me bagging on him I googled around to see if I could find some other historian complaining about him on a blog or something, and this is the first thing i found. It's from Quora, but it's a decent answer. I don't agree 100% with every point*, but it's another good take on his weaknesses. The point about the idiocy of comparing Alexander the Great to Adolph Hitler in particular is on point. https://www.quora.com/What-do-history-professors-think-of-Dan-Carlins-Hardcore-History-podcast *edit: because I know it will come up, some of the characterizations of history as a profession and I think that person is overestimating the impact of academic history on the evolution of society. Many things led to beliefs in racial and gender superiority being challenged, but historians weren't the driving force of that. The larger points this person makes are fine, though, and I suspect it's just a bad example pulled out of a hat to explain something on the internet. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 18:15
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I apparently forgot a lot of his arguments and by chance ended up with a more current idea of how WWI happened in my head. The main thing I remember was Germany eyeing up Russia and France and deciding they'd hit before they or someone else did.
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Jun 3, 2017 18:53
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