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The sidequests aren't subtle about it, like a woman who's taken out loans to be augmented from a criminal syndicate who then expect her to be paying them out of her profits from the rest of her life, sex workers who were coerced into augmentation because that's what the clients want, and one even has Adam working for a friend of his boss and he compares the situation to being lent out like a stapler. (and another cyborg thinks he should be proud of that, being an extremely fancy and expensive stapler) The game probably had a better metaphor than they really knew what to do with; outwardly it gives you power and agency, but faced with material reality it makes you vulnerable and dependent, and as it turns out, an easily controlled scapegoat. Status closer to being say, a migrant worker either undocumented or having your papers seized by your employer, completely at their mercy and easily disposed of for their convenience.
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Oct 10, 2021 13:23
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Part of it is that the whole premise is unrealistic. It’s sort of like how in gundam making human-shaped robots is super effective and not just a weird novelty. Most of the actual performance-enhancing aspects of augments could be achieved much cheaper and safer with regular technology. Like, even if giving warehouse workers super-arms is actually a huge improvement over forklifts (which is already questionable), you could just have some non-surgical powered exoskeleton. Way cheaper to build, no weird drug fees the company has to subsidize, and since it’s company property you don’t lose your investment if you want to fire your current minimum wage guys.
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Oct 10, 2021 13:39
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Snake Maze posted:Part of it is that the whole premise is unrealistic. It’s sort of like how in gundam making human-shaped robots is super effective and not just a weird novelty. Most of the actual performance-enhancing aspects of augments could be achieved much cheaper and safer with regular technology. Except now you have staff who are functionally slaves because they're heavily incentivized to stay and obey, because otherwise they're gonna be really hosed without Neuropozine. It's a big part of why Adam not needing it is such a major deal; No reliance on Neuropozine means no longer having a leash on augmented employees by major corporations.
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Oct 10, 2021 13:46
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Except now you have staff who are functionally slaves because they're heavily incentivized to stay and obey, because otherwise they're gonna be really hosed without Neuropozine. More like you're stuck with a liability which is a net loss if you have to fire them or they die. Not only it's unnecessary as this is status quo even without neuropozine, but the more you think about it, the more impractical it gets. I mean jeez why give them expensive surgery and roboarms when you can give them a credit card.
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Oct 10, 2021 13:57
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Sun Tzu even said, "If you display power, you show weakness." and the inverse is also true. You can convince people to get dependent on something for your own advantage just by telling them (the truth!) that it'll make them powerful.
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Oct 10, 2021 14:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Except now you have staff who are functionally slaves because they're heavily incentivized to stay and obey, because otherwise they're gonna be really hosed without Neuropozine. If anything it’s the other way around. If you’re spending $X on expensive full-cyber-skeleton-replacement and $Y on monthly drug fees for your minimum wage warehouse worker, that’s a huge investment in that one guy and you lose it if he leaves. (Presumably whatever contract they have around the surgery wouldn’t let the employees leave freely, but it means you can’t afford to fire him easily). Plus, he’s only one guy. He can’t work around the clock (even if you try to make him, sleep deprivation would eventually drop performance until he’s breaking stuff and losing you money) On the other hand, a power exoskeleton would be significantly cheaper (no advanced mind-machine interface, less need for miniaturization, no surgical installation), and it could be used 24/7 by different employees on different shifts. Companies like having power over their employees, sure, but they already have a ton because of how capitalism works. The drug stuff barely gives them any more leverage (I mean, people’s healthcare is already tied to employment irl) while also costing them a shitload of money.
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Oct 10, 2021 14:12
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Another thing to remember for both of the Jensen games is that in both of them, you're doing things right at the heart of augmentation. In HR it's in Detroit and Hengsha, China; both headquarters of major augmentation companies, as well as both having a significant underground for after-market and smuggled parts. In MD it's a part of Prague that essentially became the 'out of sight, out of mind' neighborhood a bunch of the augmented people got sent off to. Reasonably speaking, no, the entire world probably couldn't have gone that aug-crazy. But there's also no real evidence that it has; HR takes place in what's basically Silicon Valley for augments, so the conversation there has been accelerated somewhat and probably has a bunch of companies willing to jump the gun. Branson, Missouri probably isn't filled with augmented people skewing the job market and businesses willing to augment people for a marginal profit, but the game doesn't really pay attention to that in much the same way that a story about criminals in New York doesn't really pay too much attention to suburban Chicago.
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Oct 10, 2021 14:27
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Snake Maze posted:If anything it’s the other way around. If you’re spending $X on expensive full-cyber-skeleton-replacement and $Y on monthly drug fees for your minimum wage warehouse worker, that’s a huge investment in that one guy and you lose it if he leaves.
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Oct 10, 2021 16:51
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My final visit to Prague I left every cop in the city with a concussion and probably permanent trauma from having a ghost punch them in the throat
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Oct 10, 2021 18:20
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Corporations would absolutely pay to have literal slaves they can show off as 'helping disadvantaged people" and people would line up because AI Trump told them it would own the libs.
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Oct 10, 2021 18:40
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The discussion made me wanna replay DXHR, going NG+ about to enter the Detroit police station like
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Oct 10, 2021 18:41
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Do you want to be hired? Do you have augs, or are willing to get them? Every time I see the title abbreviation I think "Deus Ex: Human Resources", and almost every discussion about the game bears this out.
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Oct 10, 2021 19:42
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Vic posted:Frankly I think you get enough Adam by just playing DXHR and MD. okay then yes i do agree with Vic's positions as stated here in this post.
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Oct 10, 2021 19:43
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The problem with every Cyberpunk game is that the central premise of the genre is "capitalism is hosed up and exploitative and would buy and sell you like any other resource if it could get away with it," but no modern publisher will sign on for a high budget game with that premise because its a direct critique of their own business model. That's why DX needed to lean on "Aug rights is like BLM," Outer Worlds backed away from their jokes about capitalism right before the punchlines and never committed to the bit, and Cyberpunk 2077 was a generic fantasy plot with chrome plating. More on topic, Severed Steel loving rules, but the thing that makes it work is that you're invincible when performing stunts like dives and wall runs. Chaining throwing a gun at a guy, sliding into his buddy to nab a gun, into a wall run down a hallway, into a dive through a glass window, shooting in bullet time the entire time, is incredibly satisfying.
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Oct 10, 2021 21:31
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OutOfPrint posted:Cyberpunk 2077 was a generic fantasy plot with chrome plating. I don't really think that "massive megacorporation trapping personality of anti capitalist terrorist that nuked their headquarters, which then possess the body of your character and continues to try and destroy capitalism as a whole", along with an EP for the fictional anti-capitalist band that started an entire anarchist subculture in universe, featuring lyrics such as quote:Add justice to the people's math is a generic fantasy plot.
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Oct 10, 2021 22:46
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:I don't really think that "massive megacorporation trapping personality of anti capitalist terrorist that nuked their headquarters, which then possess the body of your character and continues to try and destroy capitalism as a whole", along with an EP for the fictional anti-capitalist band that started an entire anarchist subculture in universe, featuring lyrics such as Hell, another in-universe song by them ("The Ballad of Buck Ravers") is about a guy who goes workplace shooter against his bosses if you listen to the lyrics close enough. You might argue they undercut the message too much with some choices, but I think the game was pretty clear on the corporations sucking (the "side with Arasaka" ending is downright terrifyingly evil since you've ensured THE facist corp leader of the setting lives forever) and certainly wasn't "generic fantasy".
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Oct 10, 2021 23:30
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Hm I got another story in cyberpunk 2077, way more of a meta commentary on capitalism, in that the game just straight up did not work.
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Oct 11, 2021 08:51
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A boss fight with a dragon would've helped Cyberpunk, tho, ngl
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Oct 11, 2021 08:59
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Not having played Cyberpunk 2077 this :Sandwich Anarchist posted:"massive megacorporation trapping personality of anti capitalist terrorist that nuked their headquarters, which then possess the body of your character and continues to try and destroy capitalism as a whole" Really does seem like a generic fantasy story, just with "anti capitalist terrorist" as a search replace for "Ancient demon" and "Capitalism as a whole" for "kingdom" or world.
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Oct 11, 2021 09:05
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Hel posted:Really does seem like a generic fantasy story, just with "anti capitalist terrorist" as a search replace for "Ancient demon" and "Capitalism as a whole" for "kingdom" or world. If you oversimplify things everything is a good vs evil story or something. Personally I always though good cyberpunk is a post capitalist dystopia. There's no "capitalism" anymore because the corporations replaced countries/religions. Thing about CP2077 and Deus Ex HR and MD it's all very "Today but cyborgs". I want people identify themselves as AT&T born and bred or lower classes not even knowing there are "other" corporations. Or the idea of communism being like a brand identity. Corporations being evil is a today problem. I wanna see writers thinking ahead of that.
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Oct 11, 2021 09:46
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I mean I've never played CP2077 but once I learned that this $316 000 000 budget game, that's heavily advertised, runs only on the newest hardware, costs a lot of money while being still broken, is about fighting capitalism... Well I thought it's cyberpunk as gently caress.
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Oct 11, 2021 09:59
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Cyperpunk would've had a hell of a lot less problems if it only ran on the newest hardware instead of launching on last gen consoles.
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Oct 11, 2021 10:02
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It would run fine on PS4 if they had time to optimize it. But they didn't because more dev time cuts into profits lol.
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Oct 11, 2021 10:05
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One of my favorite little things in games is when you just get an entire musical number out of nowhere. Two of my favorite games I've played this year have done this -- AI: Somnium Files and Psychonauts 2 -- and I'd link them here if they weren't extremely spoilery. They're both on PC gamepass though so give them a shot
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Oct 11, 2021 10:10
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Media can serve as a critique of systemic inequities while also simultaneously existing as a product within that system, to think otherwise is some extreme "but you live in a society" type energy. Cyberpunk 2077's particular critique of capitalism only operates on a highly superficial level, however. Its narrative and themes are much more concerned with identity and consciousness than anything material.
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Oct 11, 2021 10:39
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exquisite tea posted:Media can serve as a critique of systemic inequities while also simultaneously existing as a product within that system, to think otherwise is some extreme "but you live in a society" type energy. Cyberpunk 2077's particular critique of capitalism only operates on a highly superficial level, however. Its narrative and themes are much more concerned with identity and consciousness than anything material. Yeah, the actual setting and societal themes are the backdrop for the very personal story V goes through. The game doesn't really try to do some grand social commentary like DXHR
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Oct 11, 2021 10:48
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flatluigi posted:One of my favorite little things in games is when you just get an entire musical number out of nowhere. Two of my favorite games I've played this year have done this -- AI: Somnium Files and Psychonauts 2 -- and I'd link them here if they weren't extremely spoilery. They're both on PC gamepass though so give them a shot Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell had one that wasn't spoilery; in fact it was one of their trailers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPoYkq8qz6I ...and while watching it I did just notice that Satan's daughter has what's definitely trans flag-colored decorations in her room. And I honestly have absolutely no idea if 2015 Volition would have done that deliberately or not.
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Oct 11, 2021 11:02
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exquisite tea posted:Media can serve as a critique of systemic inequities while also simultaneously existing as a product within that system, to think otherwise is some extreme "but you live in a society" type energy. Cyberpunk 2077's particular critique of capitalism only operates on a highly superficial level, however. Its narrative and themes are much more concerned with identity and consciousness than anything material. There's media and then there's multihundred million dollar media pushed out early because greed not the quality of the final product.
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Oct 11, 2021 11:03
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Cleretic posted:Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell had one that wasn't spoilery; in fact it was one of their trailers. It's unfortunate that it was also pretty much the only good sketch/cutscene and everything else was half-hearted.
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Oct 11, 2021 11:06
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Vic posted:There's media and then there's multihundred million dollar media pushed out early because greed not the quality of the final product. I don't disagree, and I think in the particular case of CP2077 it's laughably easy to see where corporate greed directly sabotaged the experience CDPR was going for on multiple levels. But the game is not really about "fighting capitalism," the cyberpunk setting is mostly window dressing for the mainstream sci-fi themes of human consciousness.
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Oct 11, 2021 11:12
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Fondly remembering how CDP released a game called Cyberpunk and then the following week announced and then canceled an indie horror game from their storefront in less than a business day because it hurt the Chinese president's feelings.
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Oct 11, 2021 15:23
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Vic posted:If you oversimplify things everything is a good vs evil story or something. Snow Crash. This is more-or-less the setting of Snow Crash. There’s basically no difference between countries and corporations anymore.
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Oct 11, 2021 15:29
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I know he's been all over the marketing for the game and we've already seen him a bunch but after putting some time into Far Cry 6, I can confidently say that I would die for Chorizo actual little thing about FC6 that I like: every weapon has a "unique" variant, usually just a fully pre-modded version with a special skin. When you get the "unique" gun, it actually unlocks that skin for use on the regular version of that gun, so if you don't like the mod layout you can just put the special skin on the normal gun and mod it how you want. Babe Magnet has a new favorite as of 15:34 on Oct 11, 2021 |
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Oct 11, 2021 15:31
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Babe Magnet posted:I know he's been all over the marketing for the game and we've already seen him a bunch but after putting some time into Far Cry 6, I can confidently say that I would die for Chorizo I have to buy this game for Chorizo alone, don't I? Because...well...of this little piece of poo poo that wakes me up at 6 AM every day for his "constitutionals": https://i.imgur.com/tMbTRyv.mp4 Edit: Also that's cool about the guns. Good to see the weapons are getting on board the "pretty princess dress-up" train as well.
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Oct 11, 2021 19:02
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DrBouvenstein posted:
Pretty princess dress up is an underrated feature of games. Man the only Far Cry I've ever played was Primal, lol.
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Oct 11, 2021 19:08
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DrBouvenstein posted:I have to buy this game for Chorizo alone, don't I? Rush got stuck midway through transforming.
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Oct 11, 2021 19:12
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Crowetron posted:A boss fight with a dragon would've helped Cyberpunk, tho, ngl Speaking of: In Shadowrun Dragonfall you get to run loyalty missions with your party members to help them deal with past trauma and - by extensions - give them sweet combat bonuses. Glories Mission is about dealing with the devil-worshiping rape/murder/cannibal cult she grew up in, and one of the possible endings is letting the cult leader escape in order to save some new recruits who haven't been completely brainwashed yet. (Alternatively, you can let them burn and kill the cult leader, but saving the kids seems to actually help Glory coming to terms with her past.) After finishing the game (by killing the dragon - or not) you get a little epilogue where you can walk around your base and have a chat with all your party members about their future plans. Glory thanks you for all you've done, but announces she has to leave the team to hunt down the cult leader before he sets up a new cult somewhere else. Your dialogue options are basically. "Ok, good luck" or "Let me come too, we'll kick his rear end.". If you choose the second one, she still declines, and you get two new options. "I trust you, but call me if you need backup." and "But we're friends. I want to help you." You can let her do her own thing at any point, but if you keep insisting on going with her, your arguments slowly turn from offering help out of friendship, to being worried about her, to arguing by pure logic, to berating her, to ridiculing her, until the last dialogue option is "You need me! You're worthless without me!" Thankfully, at that point, she shuts you down for good and severs any contact with you. I don't felt like such a scumbag in any videogame, no matter which evil options i took. And that was just the "noncanonical" what-did-i-miss run. Didn't even need a karma meter to know you're a monster. Moldless Bread has a new favorite as of 20:35 on Oct 11, 2021 |
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Oct 11, 2021 20:33
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Vandar posted:Snow Crash. This is more-or-less the setting of Snow Crash. There’s basically no difference between countries and corporations anymore. Also JENNIFER GOVERNMENT THE HIT NOVEL THAT INSPIRED THE GREAT ONLINE GAME NATIONSTATES edit: I'm so awful at being a scumbag in videogames, it feels so much nicer helping folks out.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:15
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One of the targets in Deathloop stays in a nuclear reactor repurposed as an art studio; if she spots you, she deliberately causes a reactor meltdown, making you solve a quick puzzle to stop it before it blows up the entire facility. However, you can also just beeline for the exit the moment the meltdown starts: doing so counts as a kill, but leaves the area in question in smoking ruins visible from the loading screen and the rest of the island
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Oct 11, 2021 22:27
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As a previous owner of a wiener in wheels, congrats to you for helping them lead a great life after their injury.
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Oct 11, 2021 22:49
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