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But even if gods do need a vascular system, how does one strikes fear into their heart? It just pumps blood (or ichor) in & out, it's not capable of thinking.DoctorTristan posted:Thing is, Thor's in pretty much the same situation. He can't actually promise Redcloak/Dark One anything - he's only one god acting alone and the changes Redcloack wants would need the agreement of all the gods. And at least one god would refuse the deal outta spite. Also, do note that Redcloak magic aura is still red, and not purple.
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Jul 16, 2020 20:41
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Gun Jam posted:Also, do note that Redcloak magic aura is still red, and not purple. And Durkon's is blue-white, not yellow. But the color of their magic auras isn't what's important here, it's the color of their gods' essences.
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Jul 16, 2020 20:52
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Gun Jam posted:But even if gods do need a vascular system, how does one strikes fear into their heart? It just pumps blood (or ichor) in & out, it's not capable of thinking. Y'know re-reading this comic I'm not sure I can trust Thor here. I could see redcloak casting his spell and then Thor/gods wresting control away and using Redcloak and the purple quiddity as flux for a temporarl arc welder. Heedless of what it does to TDO or Red.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:33
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Why would I settle for equal footing with the people who've been keeping me down when I finally have the chance to get some payback?
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Jul 16, 2020 21:45
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That wouldn't work out the way Thor wants. Thor's plan is to spot weld the existing rifts, then keep spot welding any that come up. The plan won't make the entire world Snarlproof. This means that cheating the Dark One instead of "Well, now that your servant has proven your importance we can start negotiating for your continued support" would be no better than nuking this world and trying to farm a new color in later ones.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:46
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DoctorTristan posted:Thing is, Thor's in pretty much the same situation. He can't actually promise Redcloak/Dark One anything - he's only one god acting alone and the changes Redcloack wants would need the agreement of all the gods. I don't think that the changes would need the agreement of all the gods. The gods deliberately took a step back from the world, right? They indirectly get their clerics to do stuff, but otherwise they let mortals do their own thing. So Redcloak doesn't need total buy-in from all the gods - he just needs enough gods to tell their followers "stop murdering humanoids for XP" for it to actually stick. That doesn't need to be a large number. Like Redcloak says at some point, all they're asking for is a fighting chance. For instance, if they could just get the Twelve Gods to tell their followers "don't attack Gobbotopia, let them exist in peace", that's probably enough to satisfy Redcloak/TDO. Even without the Twelve Gods, Hinjo already seems to be settling in on that new island on the Western continent, right? The Order could probably personally talk him into peace with Gobbotopia, without necessarily needing the gods to get involved.
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Jul 17, 2020 01:33
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Yeah this isn't going great, I think getting Redcloak and TDO's cooperation will involve actually convincing them of the sheer number of worlds that have died and that TDO probably won't make it to the next one so this is in fact the only chance. Which may cause them to double down on the other plan instead though so hard to say.
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Jul 17, 2020 01:43
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Redcloak dies. All is lost because the Dark One doesn't have another priest able to cast 9th level spells. Then an orc follower of Banjo (who previously appeared in only one panel) shows up and saves the day with orange quiddity.
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Jul 17, 2020 02:57
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Roy goes Super Saiyan and generates his own quiddiddity when the Snarl explodes Belkar
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Jul 17, 2020 03:57
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It's kind of funny how OotS is doing an arc about negotiation with Redcloak, whose aim is for goblinoids to be treated like people, at the same time Wizards of the Coast is reconfiguring D&D's ethical structure to allow its traditional villain races to be morally complex. It feels like Redcloak already got what he wanted, in a way.
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Jul 17, 2020 04:25
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Redcloak got what he wanted with Gobbotopia. TDO still wants to have an even footing with the other gods and Redcloak needs to be rid of Xykon to be truly safe though.
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Jul 17, 2020 09:25
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Roy goes Super Saiyan and generates his own quiddiddity when the Snarl explodes Belkar Belkar's the god (of war) he would be the one with a quiddity.
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Jul 17, 2020 09:47
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Wanderer posted:It's kind of funny how OotS is doing an arc about negotiation with Redcloak, whose aim is for goblinoids to be treated like people, at the same time Wizards of the Coast is reconfiguring D&D's ethical structure to allow its traditional villain races to be morally complex. It would almost be to WotC credit if only they weren't so terrible towards BIPOC authors Ponsonby Britt posted:Even without the Twelve Gods, Hinjo already seems to be settling in on that new island on the Western continent, right? The Order could probably personally talk him into peace with Gobbotopia, without necessarily needing the gods to get involved. Hinjo is a reasonable dude, but I don't think he's going to love the notion of making peace with those who massacred and enslaved his countrymen.
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Jul 17, 2020 10:29
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Yeah I don't think a happy ending is "and then everyone agreed to be nicer to goblins and the gods said no one could ever do anything about the slaves of Gobbotopia."
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Jul 17, 2020 11:47
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Mystic Mongol posted:Belkar's the god (of war) he would be the one with a quiddity. That would be an incredible rear end pull at the end of the comic.
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Jul 17, 2020 15:24
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Would it? Just how did the Dark One ascend, anyways? Just by go up a level?
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Jul 17, 2020 15:31
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Bell_ posted:Would it? Just how did the Dark One ascend, anyways? Just by go up a level? A lot of people believed in him when he died and killed a lot of people in his name in revenge.
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Jul 17, 2020 15:39
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Bell_ posted:Would it? Just how did the Dark One ascend, anyways? Just by go up a level? I think the circumstances of his death? He was a powerful warlord and leader of all goblins. Guessing when he died all of the collective goblin spirits sort of elevated him, if normal D&D weirdness re souls and belief holds true in OOTSverse. It seems to be the case, at least in the broad strokes.
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Jul 17, 2020 15:39
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Mystic Mongol posted:Belkar's the god (of war) he would be the one with a quiddity. Well I guess gods don't need to breathe 
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Jul 17, 2020 16:00
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I just wanted to say thanks to whomever linked the "Dilbert as a Gamer" comic strip. I read the entire story in the time it took the last two OOTS strips to come out. Is hilarious. Would recommend to all.
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Jul 17, 2020 16:39
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Shugojin posted:I think the circumstances of his death? He was a powerful warlord and leader of all goblins. Guessing when he died all of the collective goblin spirits sort of elevated him, if normal D&D weirdness re souls and belief holds true in OOTSverse. It seems to be the case, at least in the broad strokes. More than that, after his death (where he was betrayed and murdered at peace talks, as the enemy was hoping that killing him would end the war), his soldiers went on a rampage and slaughtered... Thousands? Tens of thousands? A million? A lot of humans in retaliation over the course of a year. (So, the exact opposite of what his killers wanted when they had him assassinated at a negotiation he had come to in good faith. Good job.) From what I understand (though I didn't read that book myself, I learned this secondhand), that mass act of... Devotion, or worship, or whatever you want to call it, was a major part of his ascension. But I could be mistaken.
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Jul 17, 2020 16:47
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Yeah I don't think a happy ending is "and then everyone agreed to be nicer to goblins and the gods said no one could ever do anything about the slaves of Gobbotopia." But what about all the human-on-human crime in Greysky city? The gods already created/allowed an awfully imperfect world. If you're willing to drill down to the level of individuals being wronged I don't think a happy ending is possible. Maybe the "happy ending" is that the enslaved peoples in Gobbotopia all go to their appropriate afterlife reward once they've be whipped to death?
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Jul 17, 2020 18:34
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paradoxGentleman posted:Hinjo is a reasonable dude, but I don't think he's going to love the notion of making peace with those who massacred and enslaved his countrymen. He's already done that though, albeit on a smaller scale. O-Chul kickstarter story Before Hinjo was a paladin, the outlying villages were being attacked by hobgoblins, and a bunch of people were killed. Hinjo talked his way onto the mission to fix it, and ultimately used diplomacy to help O-Chul broker a peace treaty with the hobgoblins who had previously killed the Azurites. Plus, if making peace is what's needed to get Redcloak to help seal the rifts, Hinjo has a strong paladin moral code combined with some of his uncle's practical flexibility. In a moral sense, he would definitely put "saving the entire world" over "maintaining a revanchist casus belli against Gobbotopia." And in a practical sense, what's the point of refusing to make peace with Gobbotopia? If they don't get Redcloak onside, then Azure City and the rest of the world will be destroyed long before they can take it back.
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Jul 18, 2020 04:44
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Ponsonby Britt posted:He's already done that though, albeit on a smaller scale. O-Chul kickstarter story Before Hinjo was a paladin, the outlying villages were being attacked by hobgoblins, and a bunch of people were killed. Hinjo talked his way onto the mission to fix it, and ultimately used diplomacy to help O-Chul broker a peace treaty with the hobgoblins who had previously killed the Azurites. Plus, if making peace is what's needed to get Redcloak to help seal the rifts, Hinjo has a strong paladin moral code combined with some of his uncle's practical flexibility. In a moral sense, he would definitely put "saving the entire world" over "maintaining a revanchist casus belli against Gobbotopia." And in a practical sense, what's the point of refusing to make peace with Gobbotopia? If they don't get Redcloak onside, then Azure City and the rest of the world will be destroyed long before they can take it back. But at the same time, he's a ruler now, and telling his people to suck it up for the abstract idea of peace with those who massacred their families and friends isn't gonna work too well either.
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Jul 18, 2020 05:01
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Ponsonby Britt posted:He's already done that though, albeit on a smaller scale. O-Chul kickstarter story Before Hinjo was a paladin, the outlying villages were being attacked by hobgoblins, and a bunch of people were killed. Hinjo talked his way onto the mission to fix it, and ultimately used diplomacy to help O-Chul broker a peace treaty with the hobgoblins who had previously killed the Azurites. Plus, if making peace is what's needed to get Redcloak to help seal the rifts, Hinjo has a strong paladin moral code combined with some of his uncle's practical flexibility. In a moral sense, he would definitely put "saving the entire world" over "maintaining a revanchist casus belli against Gobbotopia." And in a practical sense, what's the point of refusing to make peace with Gobbotopia? If they don't get Redcloak onside, then Azure City and the rest of the world will be destroyed long before they can take it back. Your other objections make sense, but, not to put too fine a point to it, the fact is that Azure City people live as slaves in cages and get whipped for the amusement of goblins. Most people would consider this a not-ideal state of affairs. Even with the end of the world looming, Hinjo is likely to try to find a way to fix that, even if it's just "the moment the world-ending thing is under control we are setting sail for so-called Gobbotopia with all the allies we can muster and obliterate anything green or orange in it."
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Jul 18, 2020 12:54
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paradoxGentleman posted:Your other objections make sense, but, not to put too fine a point to it, the fact is that Azure City people live as slaves in cages and get whipped for the amusement of goblins. Most people would consider this a not-ideal state of affairs. Lmao look at this #azurefragility smdh
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Jul 18, 2020 13:33
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Why not ask them to free the slaves or some sort of negotiated compromise? I.e convert them into "workers on loan" for reparations like the WW2 German POW's that USSR put to work fixing the poo poo they broke but were allowed to go back by the mid 50's?
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Jul 18, 2020 14:06
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Raenir Salazar posted:Why not ask them to free the slaves or some sort of negotiated compromise? I.e convert them into "workers on loan" for reparations like the WW2 German POW's that USSR put to work fixing the poo poo they broke but were allowed to go back by the mid 50's? Minus the ones that get executed and worked to death first, even after the agreement is in place, right?
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Jul 18, 2020 19:57
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A.o.D. posted:Minus the ones that get executed and worked to death first, even after the agreement is in place, right? Would be historically accurate. Not all those Germans got back home either.
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Jul 18, 2020 21:43
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A.o.D. posted:Minus the ones that get executed and worked to death first, even after the agreement is in place, right? Yes? What's more important, getting revenge or ensuring that all existence continues?
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Jul 19, 2020 04:35
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Worse atrocities have been forgive for less reward.
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Jul 19, 2020 04:36
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Well, what has existence done for me lately?
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Jul 19, 2020 04:45
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Frankly, existence seems kind of a bother
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Jul 19, 2020 05:50
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The afterlife is great! Real life blows.
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Jul 19, 2020 05:59
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McTimmy posted:The afterlife is great! Real life blows. I'm pretty sure they don't even get afterlife?
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Jul 19, 2020 06:11
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Eeepies posted:I'm pretty sure they don't even get afterlife? They get afterlife only if the gods blow up the world to keep the Snarl from breaking free and consuming all the souls on it.
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Jul 19, 2020 06:18
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A.o.D. posted:Minus the ones that get executed and worked to death first, even after the agreement is in place, right?
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Jul 19, 2020 07:33
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World Famous W posted:Frankly, existence seems kind of a bother It has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
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Jul 19, 2020 08:17
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The Question IRL posted:I just wanted to say thanks to whomever linked the "Dilbert as a Gamer" comic strip. the what? ikanreed posted:But at the same time, he's a ruler now, and telling his people to suck it up for the abstract idea of peace with those who massacred their families and friends isn't gonna work too well either. I mean, it's worked in real life. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jul 19, 2020 |
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Jul 19, 2020 08:42
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Acerbatus posted:the what? Behold: https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Gamer_Dilbert/5636111/
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Jul 19, 2020 19:32
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