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  • Locked thread
Verranicus
Aug 18, 2009

by VideoGames

Argas posted:

Enough talk about dumb stuff, how about the best character from Heavensward, Matoya?



Would

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a crisp refreshing Moxie
May 2, 2007



But enough about Poroggos.

ntan1
Apr 29, 2009

sempai noticed me
|-------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

This is the previous level of coil content difficulty.


|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++|

This is the current level of midas savage difficulty.

|----++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|


This is the current level of midas normal difficulty.

|----------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

This is a good level of difficulty for raid content.




So here's the legitimate problem. Lets suppose that there are now three levels of difficulty, one with the current midas savage, one with current midas normal, and a new alexander difficulty that is exactly in between. If you evenly divided the raid difficulty by half, you end up with the following difficulty level for the new alexander hard:

|---------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

If you notice the above difficulty, it is not equivalent to a good level of difficulty for raid content. Hence the new alexander hard mode would be not difficult enough. This is bad for the game. So in reality, I would like to propose that you need to add 2 new additional difficulties for a total of four levels of difficulty:

Alexander Normal
Alexander Hard
Alexander Extreme
Alexander Savage

Only then can you have balanced raid content.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Man there is like no good selection of nice clothing if you don't know a weaver, apparently?

Farg
Nov 19, 2013
I'm a weaver

Philip Rivers
Mar 15, 2010

Have you ever tried making your own clothes? It's not easy.

Verranicus
Aug 18, 2009

by VideoGames

ntan1 posted:

|-------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

This is the previous level of coil content difficulty.


|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++|

This is the current level of midas savage difficulty.

|----++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|


This is the current level of midas normal difficulty.

|----------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

This is a good level of difficulty for raid content.




So here's the legitimate problem. Lets suppose that there are now three levels of difficulty, one with the current midas savage, one with current midas normal, and a new alexander difficulty that is exactly in between. If you evenly divided the raid difficulty by half, you end up with the following difficulty level for the new alexander hard:

|---------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

If you notice the above difficulty, it is not equivalent to a good level of difficulty for raid content. Hence the new alexander hard mode would be not difficult enough. This is bad for the game. So in reality, I would like to propose that you need to add 2 new additional difficulties for a total of four levels of difficulty:

Alexander Normal
Alexander Hard
Alexander Extreme
Alexander Savage

Only then can you have balanced raid content.

I hope this was a parody because if not you wasted a lot of effort on a bad idea

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

ntan1 posted:

|-------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

This is the previous level of coil content difficulty.


|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++|

This is the current level of midas savage difficulty.

|----++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|


This is the current level of midas normal difficulty.

|----------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

This is a good level of difficulty for raid content.




So here's the legitimate problem. Lets suppose that there are now three levels of difficulty, one with the current midas savage, one with current midas normal, and a new alexander difficulty that is exactly in between. If you evenly divided the raid difficulty by half, you end up with the following difficulty level for the new alexander hard:

|---------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|

If you notice the above difficulty, it is not equivalent to a good level of difficulty for raid content. Hence the new alexander hard mode would be not difficult enough. This is bad for the game. So in reality, I would like to propose that you need to add 2 new additional difficulties for a total of four levels of difficulty:

Alexander Normal
Alexander Hard
Alexander Extreme
Alexander Savage

Only then can you have balanced raid content.

Show your work

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
I was really hoping I could just buy the cool clothes on the marketboards but it's just the same power stats that look generically armory.

Farg
Nov 19, 2013
2x^3 -2y = 14.33x

Where x is the number of turns and y is player count

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Tae posted:

I was really hoping I could just buy the cool clothes on the marketboards but it's just the same power stats that look generically armory.

The cool looking clothes are all level 1

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

cheetah7071 posted:

The cool looking clothes are all level 1

I looked at all the pages

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


Philip Rivers posted:

Have you ever tried making your own clothes? It's not easy.

It's still a lot of work in game even if you're a trained weaver, unless you get all your mats off the market board. I crafted a coat once that required me to hit five zones and and several treasure maps for materials. Then I sold it for half a million, and spent that money on minions.

Potato Jones
Apr 9, 2007

Clever Betty
Savage raids for some, miniature Ishgardian banners for others.

Zero The Hero
Jan 7, 2009


And people call this game a catgirl simulator. They don't know what they're missing

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

Argas posted:

Enough talk about dumb stuff, how about the best character from Heavensward, Matoya?



I really hope one day we get a cutscene where she proceeds to just clown on a bunch of powerful bad guys without breaking a sweat.

Oneavi
Dec 10, 2011

Boxbot was head of security.

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

TO pull us out of this downward spiral I'm gonna re-ask a post from earlier that got eaten in patch notes talk, I'm about to hit the Crystal Sands tier of Anima weapon for AST and I have 0 idea what stats I should be leaning towards for it. I mean, I know what stats are good on AST but the freedom of the allocation kind of has me a little worried that I could gently caress up my weapon a bit so does anyone have any suggestions for it?

I've spent a lot of time thinking about healing itemization and I've come to a few conclusions.

Firstly, the only stat that really seems to mean anything in a healing environment is spell speed. You get more spells per fight and they cast faster. The problem with determination is that since it generates such little extra healing even with large allocations of the stat, most healers will just turn their determination directly into overheal. It's very rare these days for someone to be saved from death by a matter of 100-200 hitpoints, especially if you're playing well. Crit kind of falls into the same boat: since you should be planning around no crits happening, most of your crits will translate directly into overheal or give you a lucky save when you gently caress up. The one nice thing about crit is if you deliberately ride a tank's hp low, you can occasionally get a free gcd thanks to a crit.

Thinking about it in terms of raw healing output is stupid though, because you're going to dps a lot provided you aren't poo poo. In dps terms, spell speed is exactly the same. You get more spells per fight and you cast them faster. Crit now becomes the best stat, because in terms of raw dps increase it provides the biggest return out of any substat. Determination is now okay, because it will directly impact the amount of damage you're doing. It's not as good as crit though.

Piety and accuracy are both odd, because you want the bare minimum of both. You want exactly enough piety to make it through the fight without wasting any, although that is unrealistically optimized. In more realistic terms, you want a mana pool that you feel is "safe" for any given fight. I believe very strongly in swapping out gear on a fight to fight basis because of that. Accuracy is the same way, you only want enough to hit a given fight's accuracy cap.

So when taking all of that into account, I believe the best stats for a healer are ss > crit > det with piety and accuracy sitting off in the corner being weird. As such, the first question you should ask is whether you intend to raid on your healer. If so, accuracy is unarguably the most efficient choice. You can only get it through melds and your relic, and with full accuracy melds this patch we still need food to meet the a8s cap. Putting accuracy on your weapon opens up alternative melding options and alternative food options as well. I believe either spell speed or crit are the best choices for a second stat here, depending on how much time you spend dpsing vs healing. If you spend more than half of your time dpsing, I would argue for crit. Vice versa for spell speed. I generally look down on piety in the relic because it's easily obtained elsewhere and if you need piety in every single slot you are probably doing something wrong.

If you're not raiding, I believe the best choice would be a crit/ss relic. Crit will get you high dps returns, and I spend like 70-80% of a given exdr in cleric stance. Spell speed means you get to heal faster and get back to c-stance sooner, or squeeze out an extra spell before you have to leave c-stance. Piety is arguably an alternative to spell speed for Astrologians, because it means more gravity spam, but I'm generally of the spell speed school of things.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other healers in the thread on all of this jumbo because it's definitely better than stupid raid tier arguments and also hopefully mutually informative.

tl;dr: crit/spell speed or acc/spell speed

edit: if you're an honest healing bitch then you still want crit/ss. Spell speed becomes your only good stat and since you're not dpsing you have no excuse to run out of mana. Crit is marginally better for healing than det because at least you can sometimes save a gcd which is super high value and you can occasionally save a wipe (that your honest healing bitch rear end started).

Reiterpallasch posted:

e: i'd be a little surprised if the answer wasn't piety/determination, like for white mages

gently caress any white mage who runs that relic they're losers

Oneavi fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Aug 28, 2016

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Virulence posted:

It's ok they'll just remove autoattacks in 4.0 and fold all the potency from them into abilities

I hope, autoattacks are stupid and poo poo.

Virulence
Jun 14, 2012


Truga posted:

I hope, autoattacks are stupid and poo poo.

Yeah, I don't think I'd miss them much if they did that. They're just kind of there and I don't even notice the flytext for them very often.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
Let the hardcore raiding community die. The elitism and toxicity of that generation belongs buried in the past.

Verranicus
Aug 18, 2009

by VideoGames

Mordiceius posted:

Let the hardcore raiding community die. The elitism and toxicity of that generation belongs buried in the past.

Aren't you the guy who fucks with LotA groups by rushing through and getting them locked out and poo poo? That's pretty toxic imho.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

Verranicus posted:

Aren't you the guy who fucks with LotA groups by rushing through and getting them locked out and poo poo? That's pretty toxic imho.

Oh no. I don't want to waste five minutes standing with my thumb up my rear end before every pack of Crystal Tower trash so we can do 4 ready checks.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
I would be completely cool with it if SE just removed Savage mode completely and only had story mode.

Virulence
Jun 14, 2012


Verranicus posted:

Aren't you the guy who fucks with LotA groups by rushing through and getting them locked out and poo poo? That's pretty toxic imho.

Mordiceius is a "I like trolling CT groups and making people angry for fun" type of goon, yes.

Verranicus
Aug 18, 2009

by VideoGames

Mordiceius posted:

Oh no. I don't want to waste five minutes standing with my thumb up my rear end before every pack of Crystal Tower trash so we can do 4 ready checks.

It's old content that a lot of people are experiencing for the first time, you shouldn't be a oval office just because you feel like an extra 5 minutes is a waste of your precious time. People wait in queue for that poo poo for a long time, and getting an obnoxious party like that is really disheartening.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Virulence posted:

Yeah, I don't think I'd miss them much if they did that. They're just kind of there and I don't even notice the flytext for them very often.

Autoattack feels like an arcane relic of ages past. From back when hotkeys were more cooldown oriented than not, so the default thing for non-caster to do was the autoattack with their weapon to conserve mp/watever, because you don't want to have to sit down every 2 kills.

Main issue with it in this game is that it's indicated absolutely nowhere, unless you stand still and do nothing. Then you notice your character slashing the enemy once every 6 or whatever seconds. If you actually push buttons, no animation for it ever plays, and have fun noticing an extra floaty number. If I didn't read this thread or sword oath desc, I'd probably still not know it exists. Which is a problem, because a lot of melee classes never need 30 PLD.

Well, that and the legacy option loving with them, but they fixed that now.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

I also play massively multiplayer games for the single player experience.

Reiterpallasch posted:

Det is shittacular on materia because you get less of it. But for a non raider, accuracy is pointless and crit just generates extra aggro a DF tank might not be able to take.

Only on grade 4s. Grade 5s give +12 same as others like crit. They need to fix det 4s to not be dumb and worthless.

Sinners Sandwich
Jan 4, 2012

Give me your friend's BURGERS and SANDWICHES, I'll put out the fire.

Major? Heavensward spoilers !!!!

I cant believe Undyne just killed Lord Haurchefant :saddowns:

Potato Jones
Apr 9, 2007

Clever Betty

Mordiceius posted:

I would be completely cool with it if SE just removed Savage mode completely and only had story mode.
It is very easy to say you wouldn't miss content you don't intend to do. I would be bothered if there were no longer harder fights to learn.

Agraya
Dec 15, 2009
healer stats tldr:

crit: you don't rely on it but when it happens you save mana. has the bonus of being the best dps stat besides accuracy.
piety: increased mana regeneration
spell speed: does nothing. healing output has never been a problem. tanks are already not in tank stance ever, sch is basically always in cleric, and a minimal spell speed ast/whm can still handle pretty much anything in spite of this. I can see this being more useful if you dps a lot.
determination: does nothing. that extra 50 hp or whatever you heal in full det isn't gonna make a difference and is probably just gonna be overheal.

all stats are bad but piety and crit are the least bad

Agraya fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Aug 28, 2016

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011

Mordiceius posted:

I would be completely cool with it if SE just removed Savage mode completely and only had story mode.

please unsub, or at least stop talking about this game, because your opinions on it seem to be 99 percent trash

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Oneavi posted:

I've spent a lot of time thinking about healing itemization and I've come to a few conclusions.

Firstly, the only stat that really seems to mean anything in a healing environment is spell speed. You get more spells per fight and they cast faster. The problem with determination is that since it generates such little extra healing even with large allocations of the stat, most healers will just turn their determination directly into overheal. It's very rare these days for someone to be saved from death by a matter of 100-200 hitpoints, especially if you're playing well. Crit kind of falls into the same boat: since you should be planning around no crits happening, most of your crits will translate directly into overheal or give you a lucky save when you gently caress up. The one nice thing about crit is if you deliberately ride a tank's hp low, you can occasionally get a free gcd thanks to a crit.

Thinking about it in terms of raw healing output is stupid though, because you're going to dps a lot provided you aren't poo poo. In dps terms, spell speed is exactly the same. You get more spells per fight and you cast them faster. Crit now becomes the best stat, because in terms of raw dps increase it provides the biggest return out of any substat. Determination is now okay, because it will directly impact the amount of damage you're doing. It's not as good as crit though.

Piety and accuracy are both odd, because you want the bare minimum of both. You want exactly enough piety to make it through the fight without wasting any, although that is unrealistically optimized. In more realistic terms, you want a mana pool that you feel is "safe" for any given fight. I believe very strongly in swapping out gear on a fight to fight basis because of that. Accuracy is the same way, you only want enough to hit a given fight's accuracy cap.

So when taking all of that into account, I believe the best stats for a healer are ss > crit > det with piety and accuracy sitting off in the corner being weird. As such, the first question you should ask is whether you intend to raid on your healer. If so, accuracy is unarguably the most efficient choice. You can only get it through melds and your relic, and with full accuracy melds this patch we still need food to meet the a8s cap. Putting accuracy on your weapon opens up alternative melding options and alternative food options as well. I believe either spell speed or crit are the best choices for a second stat here, depending on how much time you spend dpsing vs healing. If you spend more than half of your time dpsing, I would argue for crit. Vice versa for spell speed. I generally look down on piety in the relic because it's easily obtained elsewhere and if you need piety in every single slot you are probably doing something wrong.

If you're not raiding, I believe the best choice would be a crit/ss relic. Crit will get you high dps returns, and I spend like 70-80% of a given exdr in cleric stance. Spell speed means you get to heal faster and get back to c-stance sooner, or squeeze out an extra spell before you have to leave c-stance. Piety is arguably an alternative to spell speed for Astrologians, because it means more gravity spam, but I'm generally of the spell speed school of things.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other healers in the thread on all of this jumbo because it's definitely better than stupid raid tier arguments and also hopefully mutually informative.

tl;dr: crit/spell speed or acc/spell speed

edit: if you're an honest healing bitch then you still want crit/ss. Spell speed becomes your only good stat and since you're not dpsing you have no excuse to run out of mana. Crit is marginally better for healing than det because at least you can sometimes save a gcd which is super high value and you can occasionally save a wipe (that your honest healing bitch rear end started).


gently caress any white mage who runs that relic they're losers

Thanks for this, I've been having trouble finding anyone talking at length about why you'd go for any stat specifically over another. I've been stumped on this since basically everything seemed kind of good with only one real stat sticking out as obviously better than the rest (SS). I am leaning towards more raid focused stuff. My gorup kind of dropped ou ta few patches ago but we're all getting back in strong lately and will probably be on the frontlines of Savage/Extreme when 2.4 drops and I'm kind of the only reliable healer we've got at the moment.

ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Aug 28, 2016

Drizvolta
Oct 31, 2011

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

please unsub, or at least stop talking about this game, because your opinions on it seem to be 99 percent trash

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


A 50S RAYGUN posted:

please unsub, or at least stop talking about this game, because your opinions on it seem to be 99 percent trash

In other news I did The Rising event today, it was cute, but I expected more puppets.

Bulk Slabhead
Oct 18, 2013

Mordiceius posted:

Oh no. I don't want to waste five minutes standing with my thumb up my rear end before every pack of Crystal Tower trash so we can do 4 ready checks.

tfw you're a piece of poo poo whining about elitists then you immediately post elitist poo poo yourself

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011
calling for the death of the raiding scene as it relates to toxicity and elitism is an extremely strange stance to take when you are a person who not only deliberately sabotaged 23 people's enjoyment of content but also found it funny enough to share anecdotally on a web forum and described yourself as 'laughing the whole time', just because those 23 people were not completing the content at the pace you, a singular person, would have liked

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Mordiceius posted:

I would be completely cool with it if SE just removed Savage mode completely and only had story mode.

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011
oh wait you're the triple triad guy who wanted to abuse the system to win tournaments

lol

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

Evil Fluffy posted:

I also play massively multiplayer games for the single player experience.

I like doing things with my friends online, hardcore raiding is not one of those things. Unsurprisingly to anyone who has paid attention to raid stats put out in other games, this is a common position.

I don't go around advocating the removal of hardcore raiding, I wish hardcore raiders wouldn't go around wishing to remove the content I do like. This is pointless divisiveness when we, as hardcore and casual alike, should be united in the face of more dev resources being squandered on worthless-rear end diadem.

Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 28, 2016

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Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

oh wait you're the triple triad guy who wanted to abuse the system to win tournaments

lol

Meh. The tournament system is flawed, so I abused it to get my cards and move on.

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

calling for the death of the raiding scene as it relates to toxicity and elitism is an extremely strange stance to take when you are a person who not only deliberately sabotaged 23 people's enjoyment of content but also found it funny enough to share anecdotally on a web forum and described yourself as 'laughing the whole time', just because those 23 people were not completing the content at the pace you, a singular person, would have liked

Crystal Tower trash mobs are super engaging content that is currently relevant when everyone tremendously outgears it and missing out on a pack of trash mobs is going to ruin your day. Or so that's what I've been told.

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