|
Jackard posted:My grimdark village does not accept jesters or their lighthearted buffoonery. I always thought it was weird that jesters were played straight, like their songs and jokes actually do cheer up the party. For some reason I assumed they'd be mad fragile DPS people, and a preacher/musician or something would be the 'bard'
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 15:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
I still think the best way to make Jesters actually somewhat good would be to give all their attacks a naturally really high crit chance, offset by mediocre-to-low damage. The idea I have is that their overall damage output should be merely okay, but they should still be pretty nice to have around since the constant crits are decent for stress mitigation. I mean, it makes sense. When everything's going to poo poo and there are gribbly horrorterrors everywhere and you're on the verge of breaking down, you're going to take one look at Chuckles the Doom Clown cartwheeling around and getting into scythe-fights with Satan and just burst out laughing. What the gently caress is he doing here? Jesus Christ, Chuckles. What are you doing. Ha ha ha! Goddamn it Chuckles. I can't concentrate on being terrified with your goddamn jingling bells and your constant awful jokes. I hate you so much Chuckles. Please come to the tavern with us after this expedition, we love you. You awful horrible clown. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jun 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 15:30
|
|
|
double nine posted:Okay, can someone explain to me how the hell I change my controls? Also who the gently caress releases a game without that feature? You can't, because everything is done by mouseclicks. So there aren't really any controls to change.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
^^^ Well you can use AWD and the arrow keys, and T will burn a torch. I think there are other hotkeys but I haven't been able to find them, although I accidentally selected one of my group once by hitting something I didn't know what I'd done..  Locke Dunnegan posted:Okay, can someone just give me an entire team/trinket/move setup that makes the Jester useful? I'm nearing the end of my best run yet and I felt a lot better after just giving up on them. They just seem so bad in every respect compared to most any other class in every slot that I don't get how anyone can use them outside of gimmick or completionist runs. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills I'm kinda confused on the stress reduction song, does it only work every so many turns, or have a chance to fail without any message? It seems like half or more of the time it just doesn't do anything. I keep losing jesters early though, which blows because I want to get one up a couple ranks and see what his dodge looks like.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:50
|
|
|
You can't play the stress song from the third slot, only the back one. Jester has some weird placement restrictions, actually. I wouldn't say Solo is powerful enough to restrict it to one slot, same with the stress song. So strange. They don't really need two nearly overlapping bleed moves too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:and T will burn a torch. gently caress, i didn't know this. I'm so glad to learn it too, cause I hated swapping the map/inventory screen back and forth while walking through the hallways constantly. Locke Dunnegan posted:[Jesters] don't really need two nearly overlapping bleed moves too. They're not overlapping though. One is full damage to one target, and one is half damage to two targets. They're separately useful, unless you consider cases like the Crusaders Smite and Zealous Accusation, or the Leppers Hew and... whatever his normal swing is called to be overlapping too. It's very useful to be able to spread your damage over multiple targets sometimes, especially when one of the targets just needs a little nudge to die. Jade Star fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jun 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:29
|
|
|
Locke Dunnegan posted:You can't play the stress song from the third slot, only the back one. Jester has some weird placement restrictions, actually. I wouldn't say Solo is powerful enough to restrict it to one slot, same with the stress song. So strange. They don't really need two nearly overlapping bleed moves too. Not sure how an AoE move overlaps with a much stronger single target attack. You can't really replace one with the other.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:31
|
|
|
Well yeah, I understand the differences between single and double target attacks. I guess I just focus on the lovely bleed more than the damage itself, because I've never had a Jester that did even average damage.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 23:27
|
|
|
Class balance as a whole is hampered by giving different classes different base damage. With the exception of the Leper and his terrible accuracy, the list of good classes is the same as the list of classes with high base damage. Some of the lower damage classes catch up at max level because they have +% damage on their main attacks, but then you add +% damage trinkets and camp buffs and it all swings back to base damage again. There's certainly room for out of combat passives to make up the difference, but while there's room on the character sheets for them the feature hasn't been confirmed to my knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 23:47
|
|
|
Locke Dunnegan posted:You can't play the stress song from the third slot, only the back one. Jester has some weird placement restrictions, actually. I wouldn't say Solo is powerful enough to restrict it to one slot, same with the stress song. So strange. They don't really need two nearly overlapping bleed moves too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 04:11
|
|
|
How does turn order work? Is it just everyone acts once per round, and turn order within each round is based on speed + some randomness + factors like surprise?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 05:11
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:I'm not referring to where he's standing. I'm referring to the fact that I can use the song four turns in a row, and it'll only actually do something 1 or 2 times total. I haven't sat down and counted out the amount of time but it almost feels like there's an invisible time limit on how often you can get the stress reduction to go off - even though you can use the skill every turn. How else is someone supposed to interpret "third slot back" other than party placement?  EDIT: Wait, I'm not talking about the stress reduction chance, I'm directly referring to your response to my question of where and how to use the Jester. I responded to your response to my question and what Locke Dunnegan fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Jun 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 05:18
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:I'm not referring to where he's standing. I'm referring to the fact that I can use the song four turns in a row, and it'll only actually do something 1 or 2 times total. I haven't sat down and counted out the amount of time but it almost feels like there's an invisible time limit on how often you can get the stress reduction to go off - even though you can use the skill every turn. Locke Dunnegan posted:How else is someone supposed to interpret "third slot back" other than party placement? I haven't played this game in a month or more but when I used Jesters I consistently got much greater stress reduction indirectly from the additional crit rate on their party buff song, than I did directly from the stress heal song. They were a great class for running really long dungeons between level 3 and 5 or so but weak at low levels (because party was too weak to do long dungeons) and weak at the very top levels (because party was so strong the critical boost became redundant).
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 05:24
|
|
|
^^^ Yeah thanks, I've been reading through the thread from page 1 and have seen folks talking about that, it's jut that my jesters and GDs are all eating poo poo in early rank 1, so I never get them to the point they're dodging and critting like crazy.  Locke Dunnegan posted:How else is someone supposed to interpret "third slot back" other than party placement? I was trying to talk about why the Jester seems bugged, and really gave no fucks about where he was standnig because I was talking about using the ability and it simply doing nothing. Like, not even a miss or fail message, it just doesn't do anything. When it works there's the sheet-music animation and stuff and it shows how much stress is reduced (3 or 4 at skill 0 iirc) but if you use it every turn back to back, it seems like it's failing to even FAIL, 3/4 of the time or 2/3.  I did use it on a certain character and check his stress before/after a no-message use, I think, and it showed no numeric change. Early in the thread people were talking like it hit 1 or sometimes more than 1 character at a time but now it seems like it hits the whole group, or just doesn't even try to hit or miss..?  Gough Suppressant posted:How does turn order work? Is it just everyone acts once per round, and turn order within each round is based on speed + some randomness + factors like surprise? coyo7e fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jun 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 05:35
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:Because maybe I wasn't looking at my game and misremembered? Guess we figured it out though, so I'm glad.  It's fine that when you responded to my request for party comp you didn't remember the stress heal ability party position requirements, whatever. I wasn't trying to make fun of you, you just started talking about another topic that had nothing to do with the quote you were seemingly responding to. Chill out bruh
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 05:49
|
|
|
The jester stress reduction song has a 60% success rate on odd skill levels, and a 70% success rate on even skill levels.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 05:55
|
|
|
I find Jesters to be in a really weird spot personally, same as Plague Doctors. It's hard for me to find justification in putting them in a party in spite of another class. Maybe the introduction of Class passives will change that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 06:10
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:^^^ Well you can use AWD and the arrow keys, and T will burn a torch. I think there are other hotkeys but I haven't been able to find them, although I accidentally selected one of my group once by hitting something I didn't know what I'd done.. O - bring up Quirks screen for selected party member (a screen I didn't even know existed, the button for it is off to the left side underneath the pawn chess piece icon) I and M - Inventory and Map C - bring up your Character sheet for the selected party member These are the ones I've found so far. Q and E are really useful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 06:45
|
|
|
I just saw a guy in the Steam community forums say "There's a way to copy your save files for mod bug testing, but I'd rather not state it openly since I'd be enabling casuals"
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 06:58
|
|
|
Today brought the greatest patch. AoE attacks from enemies no longer crit everyone in your party at once.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 07:04
|
|
|
TheBlandName posted:Today brought the greatest patch. AoE attacks from enemies no longer crit everyone in your party at once. Heal crits give stress relief!
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 08:18
|
|
|
Azran posted:I just saw a guy in the Steam community forums say "There's a way to copy your save files for mod bug testing, but I'd rather not state it openly since I'd be enabling casuals" people like that need brain surgery
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 08:31
|
|
|
Azran posted:I just saw a guy in the Steam community forums say "There's a way to copy your save files for mod bug testing, but I'd rather not state it openly since I'd be enabling casuals" hahahahhahahahahahahhaah
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 11:15
|
|
|
Picked this up on the Steam Sale last week and I'm glad, because I've been playing it non-stop since then because it's fun as hell and (almost as importantly) it's keeping me from spending more money. Jester talk: I added one to my roster early on just for variety (and not knowing really what class was (specifically) good for what) and he quickly became my go-to frontline attacker. Maybe it was just luck with the RNG, but his dodge was so high he rarely got hit, and he did decent damage. I've never used his stress reduction song, mainly because the party combo I use him with (Jester/Crusader/Occultist/Arbalest) seems to get out of their quests with less than 30 stress anyway. He's level 5 now with something like a base 50 dodge (or more, can't remember off hand). BUT! Now I only use him or the Crusader when all of my Men-At-Arms are unavailable, because the Man-At-Arms is far and away the best fighter class IMHO with their riposte defense/attack and their defensive buffs. My best party combo by far is MAA/MAA/Highwayman/Vestal, with the frontline MAA more attack oriented (Retribution/Crush/Rampart/Bellow) and the second slot one more defensive (Bolster/Defender/Crush/Retribution). Bolster buffing the entire party is great, and especially helps with boss fights or double-wide baddies who can attack the entire party at once. And the riposte defense with Retribution is (almost) like having two attacks. Not huge attacks, of course, but I've found that it takes care of low-level monsters pretty quickly and grinds down the big ones faster than, say, Crusader attacks. And it really helps with boss fights, like the prophets or the hags where they tend to sit in the back and can't be reached by a lot of front line attacks - so when the bosses attack the party, they get smacked. and I always say "talk poo poo - get hit" or "talk back - get a smack" in time with the baddie attack/riposte animation because you have to, you just HAVE to fake edit: I say this about the MAA only having used the Leper a little bit at the beginning, they all kept getting killed so easily.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 18:36
|
|
|
New update on the Kickstarter page with a roadmap for the next few months:quote:The next update, in July, will be:
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
Yessss permanent quirks are coming! And of course Doggymaster
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
The MaA buffs affect the whole party???
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
Locke Dunnegan posted:The MaA buffs affect the whole party??? Bolster does, at least. Defender just guards one other member. Not sure about Command, I don't think I've ever used that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 18:59
|
|
|
So we're just missing the Houndmaster and the Merchant, right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 19:24
|
|
|
Azran posted:So we're just missing the Houndmaster and the Merchant, right? No actually, there's one other unannounced class that's a reward for one of the big Kickstarter donors.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
Snow Job posted:No actually, there's one other unannounced class that's a reward for one of the big Kickstarter donors. IIRC that's supposed to be a variant of one of the base classes, right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 19:48
|
|
|
Azran posted:IIRC that's supposed to be a variant of one of the base classes, right? The backer-only variant class is a separate thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
Azran posted:So we're just missing the Houndmaster and the Merchant, right? Houndmaster coming in July
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 20:35
|
|
|
Locke Dunnegan posted:It's a rare talent to admit a minor mistake and come across as a bigger oval office than before.  Now if you're offended though, that's on me for thinking you're a twit. Before, I was being cheerful and friendly and you took it as some kind of personal attack or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2015 00:25
|
|
|
People talk about the Plague Doctor being weak but I guess I only ever used them in a team with a Hellion at which point those two can stun the whole field so they always seemed decent to me. That their lovely healing ability can remove some debuffs is a side bonus. We've already established I probably over-value Bleed, and hey Incision! I just can't bring myself to dislike a character who can bleed someone, stun half the field, OR heal/remove debuffs. That's a lot of utility covered in one package, and together with a Hellion they're just brutal. I'm also super attached to my current PD because he (she?) has like 8 negative traits but none of them are serious enough ones to warrant removal... But that is one weird motherfucker at this point. Renamed from Postel to Postal cuz yeah eventually they're going postal. I accept this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
chairface posted:People talk about the Plague Doctor being weak but I guess I only ever used them in a team with a Hellion at which point those two can stun the whole field so they always seemed decent to me. That their lovely healing ability can remove some debuffs is a side bonus. We've already established I probably over-value Bleed, and hey Incision! I just can't bring myself to dislike a character who can bleed someone, stun half the field, OR heal/remove debuffs. That's a lot of utility covered in one package, and together with a Hellion they're just brutal. Yeah, I've been warming to the Plague Doctor. Stacking DoTs is less impressive than doing one big gently caress-off lump of damage, but over the course of a battle (especially a big one), it's no less effective. I think people see 'doctor' in the name and subconsciously assume it means 'healer', but the PD is really anything but. Her trinkets also allow her to bleed and blight enemies with crazy resistances, so I don't think her usefulness even falls off vs. pigs and stuff. Maybe the upcoming disease changes will make Leeches more useful, too! Also re: the jester talk earlier, he needs a serious buff. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but IMO there is no part of that character that isn't done better, more conveniently and paired with more utility by some other class. His only redeeming skills are his camping abilities, but that alone does not a character make.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2015 03:20
|
|
|
It's probably old news now, but since that goon mentioned that the two stat buff moves of MaAs buff the whole party, I made a new save with the intent to make a full MaA party ASAP and see how it fares. No one has been near death or affliction since I got a full team, and I have wrecked every single Easy boss with ease, and only have the cannon to go. Every single one of them has Retribution/Crush/Rampart/Bolster?(the dodge/spd one) and the Teamwide +Dodge camp skill, which I stack four times. The turns are 99% Bolster/Ret/Ret/Ret, but the other two moves are there for the rare instances that a stun or more immediate damage is needed, which hasn't really come up yet. It actually annoys me how strong and well-rounded the team is for being a single class. Full party AoEs trigger all three Rets for massive damage, the Necromancer never stood a chance  EDIT: I don't think my game has updated since the recent change to MaA, now that I think about it. I looked it up and they removed stun, but I am definitely stunning people. That changes things I guess! Locke Dunnegan fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jun 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2015 05:28
|
|
|
Man I need to try Man-at-Arms x4. They're ridiculous now, Man at Arms is the new Hellion! Except even better because they have more utility abilities.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2015 06:43
|
|
|
What does it mean when an item refers to rank? I have a couple of Leper-only items that say like "+stat when in Rank 1, -stat when not in Rank 1." Is this referring to the resolve level of the character, or the level of the mission? Or something else?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2015 15:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
Position. Rank 1 is the front of the party.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2015 15:34
|
|