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American farmers picked off redcoats from concealed positions with the rusty old tank destroyers they usually used for squirrel hunting.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:45
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Gort posted:Got a big boring trip abroad coming up and I need some reading material. Anyone got some good book recommendations for post WW2 military history? Particularly Korea, Soviet involvement in Afghanistan and the Gulf Wars. Vietnam but I just finished “The Lucky Few” and it’s real good. Worth a look if you don’t k ow much about the last days of the war or the refugee crisis after Saigon fell
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Aug 17, 2018 20:06
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Jobbo_Fett posted:The Germans mistook British tank destroyers for having autoloaders on numerous occasions, due to the type's high rate of fire, most commonly known as the Mad Minute. 
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Aug 17, 2018 20:06
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Cessna posted:and its only victory came when it rammed an anti-tank gun. "Anti-tank gun", or "tank destroyer" in US parlance... It is a misconception that tank destroyers were inaccurate; most rounds fired were intended to suppress the enemy and not actually aimed at a target.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:48
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Fangz posted:Before the invention of tanks, tank destroyers had no concept of time, mostly frolicking naked during the summer. How is this not the thread title yet?
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Aug 17, 2018 20:48
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OneTruePecos posted:How is this not the thread title yet? It's probably too long but mods??? please cut it if required
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Aug 17, 2018 20:55
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Fangz posted:Before the invention of tanks, tank destroyers had no concept of time, mostly frolicking naked during the summer. Those tank destroyers could not stray far from their initial area of deployment, less they become lost and never manage to find their way back to the motor pool again. Rare was the tank destroyer that traveled more than a few miles in its life.
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Aug 17, 2018 21:20
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When Zhukov ordered his tank divisions forward, he placed tank destroyers behind them to shoot any retreating tanks
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Aug 17, 2018 21:46
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Did you know the color scheme used on German tank destroyers was actually designed by Hugo Boss?
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Aug 17, 2018 21:58
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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with tank destroyers." -- Albert Einstein
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Aug 17, 2018 21:58
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The tank destroyers were only given to the luftwaffe and SS, the clean wehrmacht and kriegsmarine were never real adherents to the doctrine
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Aug 17, 2018 22:01
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The M36 Slugger's 90mm round was very low velocity, because it was intended to disable rather than destroy, unlike the much preferred 76mm round of Hellcats
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Aug 17, 2018 22:03
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95% of Allied paratroops died when their parachute didn't open; it was actually a way to dispose of troublesome recruits.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:11
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e: ^^ the other 5% died a minute later when they hit the ground. Actual no poo poo serious news: Russia is bringing back Tank Destroyers.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:12
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 Sure thing bud
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Aug 17, 2018 22:12
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Tevery Best posted:The M36 Slugger's 90mm round was very low velocity, because it was intended to disable rather than destroy, unlike the much preferred 76mm round of Hellcats During cold war it was calculated that as the AP shot was more likely to wound than kill, it would tie down three tank destroyers to tow it away instead of the instakill HEAT shell. It was also designed to tumble when it hit a rivet, causing more damage to the interiors.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:13
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Can someone link the TD chat of legend? I missed it when it happened, and I'm morbidly curious.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:21
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Tank destroyers add dignity, to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:22
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Your average PzKfw IV was just a draftee without any real love for the regime and no reason to commit atrocities. The real ugly stuff was all done by the Tigers and Jagdpanzers.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:48
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Geisladisk posted:Can someone link the TD chat of legend? I missed it when it happened, and I'm morbidly curious. AFAIK, it's not so much the chat as an eternally resurging topic of controversy, matched by Wojtek the bear and the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs. E: And also HEY GUNS's dudes shooting out of windows, but I don't think anybody really objects to that.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:09
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Also, everybody knows that you can't convince tank destroyers to charge a pike square. They're too smart to get themselves killed like that.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:15
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Tank destroyers have a very complex and prickly sense of honor. Sometimes disputes can be solved by a lawsuit, but sometimes honor can dictate that two tank destroyers that don’t want to fight need to or loose status. One time two Marders, good friends, were forced by honor and status into dueling and one was damaged beyond repair. As he was being towed to the scrap yard he forgave his friend.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:22
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i loving love you guys
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Aug 17, 2018 23:23
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Of course Tank Destroyers were the most honorable profession in an armored regiment. We might assume that the heavy tanks you see in all the movies, what with their big and impressive armor and guns, would be but if you look closely at orders of battle from dozens of regiments you’ll find that the most senior and best paid vehicles were all tank destroyers.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:24
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as the americans stormed ashore on the kansai plain they would be met by suicide waves of fanatical, half constructed tank destroyers
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Aug 17, 2018 23:28
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Geisladisk posted:Can someone link the TD chat of legend? I missed it when it happened, and I'm morbidly curious. The original chat was someone claiming that Tank Destroyer doctrine was a success, to which everyone else pointed out that it was immediately ditched after WW2 because the only proponents of it (the US) realised it was a terrible idea that only came into being because the head of armour development was an artillery officer. Discussion branches: 1) Yes other nations built things that might be called tank destroyers. Those were all stopgap vehicles that were made because they were cheap to produce and there was an overwhelming need to get vehicles with guns on them. Nobody else pursued the doctrine that only tank destroyers engage tanks. 2) US tank destroyers were decent designs. The problem wasn't that they were incapable, the problem was the the whole doctrine of rushing them to block an armoured thrust fundamentally failed to grasp that the power of a panzer division didn't just come from the tanks but from the combined arms effect.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:29
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Cyrano4747 posted:Tank destroyers have a very complex and prickly sense of honor. Sometimes disputes can be solved by a lawsuit, but sometimes honor can dictate that two tank destroyers that don’t want to fight need to or loose status. One time two Marders, good friends, were forced by honor and status into dueling and one was damaged beyond repair. As he was being towed to the scrap yard he forgave his friend. to fully grasp this you need access to things written by the tank destroyers themselves, not just memoirs written by whatever big cat happens to feel like writing about them
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Aug 17, 2018 23:36
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Of course, when he gave the original concept his patronage at the Admiralty, Winston Churchill didn't know he was inventing tank destroyers as we know them now. His original concept was to make a gun with a mobile verandah so that artillery officers could get as close as possible to the feeling of Indian service while sitting in a muddy field in Flanders, but then natural evolution and ingenuity took over and we all know the rest of the story. Personally I can't help but think that tank destroyers as a concept would have been far more effective in actual combat situations if they'd met the original specification to carry a Nappi and a Punkah-wallah with the crew...
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Aug 17, 2018 23:39
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HEY GUNS posted:to fully grasp this you need access to things written by the tank destroyers themselves, not just memoirs written by whatever big cat happens to feel like writing about them Has your research dug up anything on the typical attire of a tank destroyer? Some say that they preferred muted colors to better hunt in the field, while others say they went for extravagant displays as part of their devil-may-care attitude, as well as to draw the eye of prospective employers and commanders.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:41
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Alchenar posted:e: ^^ the other 5% died a minute later when they hit the ground. It sounds more like a Leopard 1 All the sensors and firepower of a MBT, none of the protection
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Aug 17, 2018 23:42
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It's well known that it often took 5 tanks to defeat a single tank destroyer.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:45
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SeanBeansShako posted:Tank destroyers add dignity, to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl. You get more of what you want with a kind word and a tank destroyer, than with just a kind word.
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Aug 17, 2018 23:45
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it is well tank destroyers are so terrible, else we should grow too fond of them
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Aug 17, 2018 23:46
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"A tank destroyer! My army for a tank destroyer!"
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Aug 17, 2018 23:48
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Rum, sodomy, and the tank destroyer
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Aug 17, 2018 23:48
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Trin Tragula posted:Of course, when he gave the original concept his patronage at the Admiralty, Winston Churchill didn't know he was inventing tank destroyers as we know them now. His original concept was to make a gun with a mobile verandah so that artillery officers could get as close as possible to the feeling of Indian service while sitting in a muddy field in Flanders, but then natural evolution and ingenuity took over and we all know the rest of the story. Personally I can't help but think that tank destroyers as a concept would have been far more effective in actual combat situations if they'd met the original specification to carry a Nappi and a Punkah-wallah with the crew...
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Aug 18, 2018 00:04
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Cyrano4747 posted:Your average PzKfw IV was just a draftee without any real love for the regime and no reason to commit atrocities. The real ugly stuff was all done by the Tigers and Jagdpanzers. The "Clean Tanks" theory, which holds that almost all destroyed tanks were destroyed by tank destroyers and that tanks actually rarely if ever destroyed tanks, has repeatedly been debunked.
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Aug 18, 2018 00:08
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Tank destroyers were so well regarded that they were given massive engine upgrades and wings and they can be heard protecting us from above to this day.
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Aug 18, 2018 00:13
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Geisladisk posted:The "Clean Tanks" theory, which holds that almost all destroyed tanks were destroyed by tank destroyers and that tanks actually rarely if ever destroyed tanks, has repeatedly been debunked. That’s just tankie propaganda.
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Aug 18, 2018 00:13
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Whatever happens, we have got. The Tank Destroyer, and they have not.-Hillare Belloc
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