Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

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WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Whatever Sabaton owns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epeQwq-aYV0

# ? Sep 26, 2016 20:28

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# ? May 24, 2024 02:27

turn it up TURN ME ON: Mar 19, 2012; In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

I'm finally reading Master and Commander again, it's such a good book.

One question that I have: He writes about the guns on the Sophie but mentions some of them are brass. I'm assuming most of the guns were iron and only a couple were brass?

Is there any particular reason a brass cannon would work better than an iron one in the early 1800s?

# ? Sep 26, 2016 20:28

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

won't shatter if you get a failure
no ferrous material = no sparks

# ? Sep 26, 2016 20:31

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

SquadronROE posted:

I'm finally reading Master and Commander again, it's such a good book.

One question that I have: He writes about the guns on the Sophie but mentions some of them are brass. I'm assuming most of the guns were iron and only a couple were brass?

Is there any particular reason a brass cannon would work better than an iron one in the early 1800s?

Are you sure he is talking about brass or bronze?

Cast bronze is stronger than cast iron, so depending on the size of the gun and the pressures it needs to contain, bronze is an easier and cheaper way to make the same object, up until you reach the point bronze cannot contain the relative pressures.

This is why gunmetal, a high zinc bronze, was used in guns for a long rear end time.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 20:44

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

iron guns are cheaper than bronze though

# ? Sep 26, 2016 20:45

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

i should have said steel, not iron, leaving it there. you are 100% right iron is cheaper than bronze.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:03

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

WoodrowSkillson posted:

i should have said steel, not iron, leaving it there. you are 100% right iron is cheaper than bronze.

this is why galleys have three bronze guns in the nose and non-galleys have a shitton of iron cannon, just...everywhere

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:04

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Also why chasers are often Bronze on a well appointed ship.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:11

Schenck v. U.S.: Sep 8, 2010

Disinterested posted:

Also why chasers are often Bronze on a well appointed ship.

IIRC O'Brien actually does refer to the bow chasers as brass rather than bronze, for whatever reason. Aubrey captures a couple of long bronze 9 pounders in an early novel, and he keeps them as his personal property and installs them in the bow of each new ship he commands, for basically the rest of the series.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:26

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

because bronze guns are super pretty and they're cast not wrought, so a nice one will ring itself like a bell when it shoots and you can hear the _pinnnnnnng afterwards, making you happy

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:27

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

"Hear"

You mean tinnitus with pinnnnnnng

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:40

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

that's my bad ear, i definitely heard this.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:41

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Pffffffft, bronze is practically free!!

_{provided that you get it by melting Pope's church bells}

P.S. The Tsar Cannon is bronze and weighs about the same as a T-62.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:44

turn it up TURN ME ON: Mar 19, 2012; In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

My fault, I meant bronze. So the advantage of bronze is that it can handle more powder and thus a higher pressure making the same weight of shot more powerful?

# ? Sep 26, 2016 21:48

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

Trin Tragula posted:

Yeah, I've tried to fix this a few times, and each time it breaks and doesn't do what it's supposed to and you end up missing three or four days at a time using the bottom buttons. The book doesn't have this problem, and you get a lot of added material too!

e; f, thanks

Hey, the links page for your 1915 book is broken. They all link to the UK store and I would rather pay in bux than squids.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:16

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

I guess I'll drop this here. Spoilers: the BAOR was not very good at its job in 1973.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:31

Mr Enderby: Mar 28, 2015

SquadronROE posted:

I'm finally reading Master and Commander again, it's such a good book.

I just knocked through the first few O'Brian's. I was really surprised by how well written they are. I've never come across such nerdy, detail heavy historical fiction which has any literary merit.

Are they generally considered to be good on the historical side of things?

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:33

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

because bronze guns are super pretty and they're cast not wrought, so a nice one will ring itself like a bell when it shoots and you can hear the _pinnnnnnng afterwards, making you happy

In Desolation Island, they use the bronze guns in a fight with a much larger ship. Preserved Killick is occasionally allowed to fire them, because it turns the grouchy, complain-y Killick entirely civil for upwards of an hour

e:

Mr Enderby posted:

I just knocked through the first few O'Brian's. I was really surprised by how well written they are. I've never come across such nerdy, detail heavy historical fiction which has any literary merit.

Are they generally considered to be good on the historical side of things?

O'Brien admits that he starts fudging the historical accuracy in Desolation Island, (he's basically pulling a MASH; if he kept to the historical timeline he'd run past the Napoleonic wars in a few novels) but otherwise I believe it is pretty good. Fun fact about the first book; the Spanish Frigate they capture they rename "Cacafugeo" (IE Shitfire), which is a nod to Sir Francis Drake, who did the same thing with the Spanish Treasure Galleon he captured.

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Sep 26, 2016

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:35

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Mr Enderby posted:

I just knocked through the first few O'Brian's. I was really surprised by how well written they are. I've never come across such nerdy, detail heavy historical fiction which has any literary merit.

Are they generally considered to be good on the historical side of things?

History Buffs just spent a video praising the accuracy of the movie, though I don't know how legit he is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iwea41ua0Y

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:41

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Hey, the links page for your 1915 book is broken. They all link to the UK store and I would rather pay in bux than squids.

Thanks, I'll fix it

here you go though https://www.amazon.com/1915-Battalions-First-Day-Day-ebook/dp/B01BMVK9YM/

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:47

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Oh, one more thing about Master and Commander:

having read the whole series, I realize that being in the Royal Navy was in some ways like being in academia.

First: too many officers. While the British are kidnapping people to meet their naval manpower needs, they create too many officers, who struggle about, looking for a commission. You need to get on a Man O'War; otherwise your career will go nowhere and you'll never have a shot at prize money. Second, getting on a ship and staying there for awhile is a pretty arbitrary, random thing. You might finally get a commission on a Man O'War, but then you might spend a year on the Brest blockade, which is even less fun than it sounds. You might also get a commission on a ship that makes one voyage - and then is decommissioned, and you're back to square one. Third, there's tenure. There's a pecking order for ship commanders- first, the titular master and commander of a ship, then Captain, then Post-Captain. When you are made post captain, you've essentially got your tenure; Promotion to admiral is done by seniority alone, so you get the job eventually, as long as you can stay alive.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:51

MrMojok: Jan 28, 2011

Nenonen posted:

T�rni was utterly nuts, he first volunteered to the Waffen SS after Winter War but returned to Finland when it turned out that he couldn't get that sweet officer's commission that he had wanted. But it's understandable that he fascinates people. He reminds you of some 17th century adventurer who goes to war in the ranks of the Swedish army, then joins the Habsburg side and finally finds himself fighting for the Spanish crown in some South American jungle.

This is funny because I knew little about his past, but I am 90% certain this is the same guy who was one of the early members of the US Army Special Forces in the late 50s or 60s. A lot their early membership was made up of badass (sometimes crazy) former soldiers from various European armies.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 22:51

xthetenth: Dec 30, 2012; Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

Nebakenezzer posted:

Oh, one more thing about Master and Commander:

having read the whole series, I realize that being in the Royal Navy was in some ways like being in academia.

First: too many officers. While the British are kidnapping people to meet their naval manpower needs, they create too many officers, who struggle about, looking for a commission. You need to get on a Man O'War; otherwise your career will go nowhere and you'll never have a shot at prize money. Second, getting on a ship and staying there for awhile is a pretty arbitrary, random thing. You might finally get a commission on a Man O'War, but then you might spend a year on the Brest blockade, which is even less fun than it sounds. You might also get a commission on a ship that makes one voyage - and then is decommissioned, and you're back to square one. Third, there's tenure. There's a pecking order for ship commanders- first, the titular master and commander of a ship, then Captain, then Post-Captain. When you are made post captain, you've essentially got your tenure; Promotion to admiral is done by seniority alone, so you get the job eventually, as long as you can stay alive.

If the US Army of the non-ACW 1800s is any indication, seniority promotions to the top gigs are a crap shoot.

# ? Sep 26, 2016 23:45

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

MrMojok posted:

This is funny because I knew little about his past, but I am 90% certain this is the same guy who was one of the early members of the US Army Special Forces in the late 50s or 60s. A lot their early membership was made up of badass (sometimes crazy) former soldiers from various European armies.

T�rni was the inspiration for Col. Kurtz in Apocalypse now. I read a biography about him once, aaand now I finally understand that said biography might have skimped on a few details. Like how he was a true blood volounteer for the SS. During the Lappland war jesus christ.

e. Larry Thorne disappeared during mission insertion in South Vietnam '65

# ? Sep 27, 2016 00:19

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

T�rni was the inspiration for Col. Kurtz in Apocalypse now. I read a biography about him once, aaand now I finally understand that said biography might have skimped on a few details.

I think you are mixing movies? T�rni is the inspiration behind a character named Captain Sven Kornie in the 1965 book The Green Berets, which then was given the Hollywood treatment starring John Wayne (and which has very little in common with the book or reality). But I'm sure you knew that, ThisIsJohnWayne!

# ? Sep 27, 2016 00:36

Monocled Falcon: Oct 30, 2011

Cyrano4747 posted:

nd everyone needed to make as many proven rifles as they could ASAP. Germany is a bit of an odd case but there were big political considerations behind not developing an autoloaders until the early 40s.

Also re: wehraboos and the myth of superior equipment: remember that a lot of that was caused by post war generals memoirs that were studied as the how to on fighting the commie menace. You really have to look st that through the lens of the early Cold War.

Do we have any accounts of the American/British general's reactions to those memoirs? Does seem kinda of odd that experienced generals who fought the Germans didn't see anything through the Germans' self serving accounts.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:07

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Ataxerxes posted:

There is also the curious case of Jewish citizens of Finland serving in the Finnish Armed Forces during WW2. The Finnish Holocaust memorial society has an article written by Tapani Harviainen, professor of semic languages in Helsinki University.
http://www.hum.fi/holokausti/mita-tapahtui-suomessa/ (article is in Finnish, but below is a part I translated)

"The Winter War doesn't seem to have caused any more ideological problems for Jews than for other Finns. All men due for armed service, 260, (asevelvolliset) served in the army, 200 of them in frontline service. Fifteen Jews were killed in battle, which, percentually, means consiredable heavy lossess. Accoring to an often repeated approximation Winter War gave also Jews the feeling of being part of the Finnish people.

With regards to the Continuation War (1941-44) the situation was different. Finland fought as a brother-in-arms with Germany, there were German troops in the country and while the fullest extend of the cruelty of the anti-Jewish purges was obfuscated the harsh anti-semitism of Nazi Germany was known. Despite this Finnish Jews served, during the Continuation War, in frontline service and as Lotta Sv�rd (female) volunteers without difference compared to other citizens; this applied to all minorities, the Romani, Russians and Tatars included. Several Jewish soldiers were awarded medals, a few reached the rank of captain and served as company commanders, Salomon Klass as a battalion commander. Jewish military doctors included doctors of the rank of major. The German attitude to Jewish soldiers has been described as being confused but correct. No instances are known where German soldiers would have refused co-operation with Finnish Jewish soldiers, nor cases where Jews would have refused to serve due to pacifism or Jewishness. In 1942 a cardboard Synagogue, "Scholkas shul" was set up at the Syv�ri front, where Jewish soldiers from the Uusimaa brigade and other nearby units served until 1944. A field synagogue, equipped with Torah scrolls, must have been an unique phenomenon among the equipment of the countries fighting on the side of the Germans."

Huh, Finland had female soldiers too? I thought the soviets were unique, in that regard?

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:19

FastestGunAlive: Apr 7, 2010; Dancing palm tree.

re: bronze guns;

The terms bronze and brass were used interchangeably in the US; not sure about else where. Bronze was the preferred metal for cannons for a long time because it would not burst when its elastic limit was exceeded (so you can use more powder, as other posters have pointed out). It is not ideal for rifling or adding hoops though. Cast iron was the next most popular choice as it is cheaper and has better hardness but bursting is not uncommon. Getting ahead of the discussion, steel became the preferred material by all major countries by the 1880s.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:22

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

HEY GAL posted:

sabaton wrote a song about gustavus adolphus, it's difficult to lower that bar

Sabaton writes songs about literally everything, I have no idea what their political affiliation is other than "war is super cool guys"

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:28

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

spectralent posted:

Huh, Finland had female soldiers too? I thought the soviets were unique, in that regard?

Lotta Sv�rd was a paramilitary women's unarmed service organization, the women's version of Suojeluskunta civil guards organization. Lotta volunteers served as nurses, secretaries, telephone operators, cooks, air surveillance etc. The only exception where women were given rifles was a searchlight unit in Helsinki in 1944, as they were expected to be able to shoot anyone trying to sabotage the lights.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:29

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

OwlFancier posted:

Sabaton writes songs about literally everything, I have no idea what their political affiliation is other than "war is super cool guys"

if they can't balance their gustavus adolphus song with one about the glories of the imperialist war machine, they're biased

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:32

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

HEY GAL posted:

if they can't balance their gustavus adolphus song with one about the glories of the imperialist war machine, they're biased

I think they did a whole album on Swedish imperial ambitions so that might take a lot of songs.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:32

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

Nenonen posted:

I think you are mixing movies? T�rni is the inspiration behind a character named Captain Sven Kornie in the 1965 book The Green Berets, which then was given the Hollywood treatment starring John Wayne (and which has very little in common with the book or reality). But I'm sure you knew that, ThisIsJohnWayne!

I did know that! But believe it or not, same guy different movie. The backstory of Kurtz is (supposedly) ripped from T�rni: old man doggedly tries to prove to unwilling command that he should go through special forces training, he does while being all impressive and high-scoring and poo poo, becomes a living legend in the special forces, disappears in the "Jungles of Vietnam" TM.

I'm not loving with you haha

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:32

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

OwlFancier posted:

I think they did a whole album on Swedish imperial ambitions so that might take a lot of songs.

well tilly and montecuccoli had very long careers, they should get writing

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:34

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

HEY GAL posted:

if they can't balance their gustavus adolphus song with one about the glories of the imperialist war machine, they're biased

swedish bias isn't bias, it is gods own opinion because we won :yotj:

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:37

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

how many of you are in this goddamn thread

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:41

ThisIsJohnWayne: Feb 23, 2007; Ooo! Look at me! NO DON'T LOOK AT ME!

There is honestly alot more to say about Lauri T�rni and fj�rrspanspatrullerna, and likewise the group of finnish veterans who wanted to, and successfully did join the american armed forces after the war (we are just s� gosh-darned wanting to be �nti-communists, donsht y� know! ~~Jeder Treu~~ Semper Fidelis never stop the good fight is the classical tale) but I am super stressed because the debate is starting and my Abuela is on and going to murder Orange Hitler, so laters

# ? Sep 27, 2016 01:47

Corsair Pool Boy: Dec 17, 2004; College Slice

HEY GAL posted:

well tilly and montecuccoli had very long careers, they should get writing

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Swedish band is more likely to write about Gustavus Adolphus than those lesser men.

# ? Sep 27, 2016 02:00

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

�anti-hapsburg bias!

# ? Sep 27, 2016 02:05

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# ? May 24, 2024 02:27

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

Another series I enjoyed was the Horatio Hornblower books, its a solid series even if it isn't as detailed as the Master and Commander books. They are a good entry point I feel, since I read the old books my dad gave me when them when I was in grade school.

Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Sep 27, 2016

# ? Sep 27, 2016 03:25

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

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