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Somebody posted that Trump's recent remarks are much more offensive than Rush's. Absolutely, Trump doesn't have the smarts to speak in code for 45 straight minutes. The mask is going to slip, frequently. That's why I'm so
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Jun 21, 2015 00:05
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Xibanya posted:For anyone not familiar with the U.S. legal system, the insanity defense requires an enormous burden of proof and requires the defense to show that the defendant was not aware that what they were doing was wrong. Winning on insanity doesn't let you walk, however, generally the defendant is locked up in a mental hospital for as long or longer than they'd be locked up in jail, but at least they might get some help. There's no need to worry about him "getting off" on an insanity plea because either way he's gonna get locked up. The only difference now is how many pills they'll be stuffing him with while he's there. quote:Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer (May 21, 1960 – November 28, 1994), also known as the Milwaukee Cannibal, was an American serial killer and sex offender, who committed the rape, murder and dismemberment of seventeen men and boys between 1978 and 1991, with many of his later murders also involving necrophilia, cannibalism, and the permanent preservation of body parts—typically all or part of the skeletal structure. fade5 fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 00:06
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twistedmentat posted:Is Natural News considered RWM because they're taking up the "he was mentally ill and the drugs made him do it" torch that Fox and others are peddling. They're closer to infowars than FoxNews, but aren't ideologically to the right. They're just obsessed with denying science, but not for the reasons the GOP does. Broken record, I guess.
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Jun 21, 2015 00:07
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Popular Thug Drink posted:people who are radicalized often have some lovely problem in their lives that they try to deal with, which often involves therapy and medication. thinking that mental illness is a cause or caused by this kind of radicalization is a basic causation/correlation error Except for my post three spaces up where I said that he was probably just a dude with problems that got radicalized by a lovely message perpetuated by people that don't care about the consequences of what they say and said nothing about him becoming mentally ill because of racism, sure. Gravel Gravy posted:I'm on SSRIs for depression. I'll let you know when I go on a rampage. And gently caress you for not reading what I'm saying so you can be a smuglord, too.
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Jun 21, 2015 00:52
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Who What Now posted:I won't say all Republicans are Neo-Nazis but I have absolutely no problem saying that Right-Wing Media almost certainly influenced this kid and so share some small portion of the blame. So there's at least one person saying that. RWM serves as an emboldening factor more than a direct influence. In other words it didn't put the racist ideas in his head but merely reinforced them, made him feel like his ideas were acceptable. That though is a more nuanced idea than saying "FOX made him do it", which is what rightwingers try to claim liberals say, so they can wave it off as silly talk.
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Jun 21, 2015 00:58
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Natural News' founder is a Tea Partier IIRC. As for mental illness, mental illness is specifically defined as not just being actions or beliefs disapproved of by society. Mental illness has to be a pattern of behaviors that impact your ability to function in day-to-day life for a reason other than just "People think you're an rear end in a top hat". People can go on a mass killing because of mental illness, but it's rare, and someone mentally ill can go on a mass killing and have it be unrelated to their mental illness. A Fancy 400 lbs fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 01:02
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Lady Naga posted:And gently caress you for not reading what I'm saying so you can be a smuglord, too. Whoa, calm your tits. Maybe you should explain your point better. I'm on an SSRI too, haven't had the urge to go on a spree yet either.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:04
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beatlegs posted:RWM serves as an emboldening factor more than a direct influence. In other words it didn't put the racist ideas in his head but merely reinforced them, made him feel like his ideas were acceptable. That though is a more nuanced idea than saying "FOX made him do it", which is what rightwingers try to claim liberals say, so they can wave it off as silly talk. I don't know about that, racist thoughts as codified as this kid's generally don't solidify out of the aether. Sure he may have naturally had some sort of ill-feelings towards people different than him, but the actual specific anti-black stuff he probably got from media and right-wing racist groups.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:09
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Who What Now posted:I don't know about that, racist thoughts as codified as this kid's generally don't solidify out of the aether. Sure he may have naturally had some sort of ill-feelings towards people different than him, but the actual specific anti-black stuff he probably got from media and right-wing racist groups. In this case from the Council of Conservative Citizens, formally known as the White Citizens Council, originally formed to battle school desegregation and tracked by the SPLC as a known hate group
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Jun 21, 2015 01:18
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Lady Naga posted:
I did read it. If you didnt want to be misunderstood then I would avoid trying to sound like a smartass. Also do you really want to make me angry? Apparently people on SSRIs can be a wild bunch.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:19
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The entire MO of conservatism is to push a narrative that indirectly supports and appeals to racists while having plausible deniability. Whether or not the conservative establishment actually encourages people like this or religious fundies like McVeigh, it definitely does absolutely nothing to combat them and relies on their political support
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Jun 21, 2015 01:19
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THE BOMBINATRIX posted:Whoa, calm your tits. Maybe you should explain your point better. I'm on an SSRI too, haven't had the urge to go on a spree yet either. Being on an antidepressant makes you less likely to do crazy things anyways, not more. They are used to treat all sorts of negative symptoms, thoughts, and behaviors. Bad stigma over SSRIs especially when the real side effects are actually crap like being tired, not impulsive violence. Stigmatizing antidepressants and talking derisively about "labeling someone crazy" or it all being a red herring/excuse after shooting sprees are examples of a social problem, mental health awareness, that too many people basically ignore or make worse without realizing it. It just doesn't capture popular attention like racism and other prejudice, but is just as damaging and real.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:21
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There isn't any evidence at all yet that this guy was actually prescribed anything at All, right?
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Jun 21, 2015 01:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There isn't any evidence at all yet that this guy was actually prescribed anything at All, right? He was a druggie abusing methadone type crap apparently, was arrested for it. So he likely self-medicates instead of any real medicine.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:28
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The most telling thing is that Roof got in on all of this when he started looking into "black on white murder" statistics which led him down the racist shithole. This is a very, very common thing among the far-right grassroots. Witness the streams of poo poo that get posted in the crazy forwarded email thread. That line of thought led him directly to white supremacy, and should encourage more self-reflection among Republicans. Not that it will, mind you, because I'm still a little shocked at the fact that a guy who is literally everything they claim racism to be is apparently not acting because of race.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:28
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Smoothrich posted:He was a druggie abusing methadone type crap apparently, was arrested for it. So he likely self-medicates instead of any real medicine. Yeah, but there%s no more evidence he was on SSRIs than there is anything else. Hell, he might have been trying to break into the bath and body works in hopes of scoring bath salts.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:30
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:The most telling thing is that Roof got in on all of this when he started looking into "black on white murder" statistics which led him down the racist shithole. This is a very, very common thing among the far-right grassroots. Witness the streams of poo poo that get posted in the crazy forwarded email thread. That line of thought led him directly to white supremacy, and should encourage more self-reflection among Republicans. I haven't heard a more convincing argument to take down IMGUR. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, but there%s no more evidence he was on SSRIs than there is anything else. Hell, he might have been trying to break into the bath and body works in hopes of scoring bath salts. So this SSRIs talk isn't "let's wait until the facts come in" but another deflection from the confirmed issues, I guess.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:37
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Smoothrich posted:He was a druggie abusing methadone type crap apparently, was arrested for it. So he likely self-medicates instead of any real medicine. Most Americans self medicate on one drug or another. There's no evidence that this turns people into murderous racists.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:37
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:The most telling thing is that Roof got in on all of this when he started looking into "black on white murder" statistics which led him down the racist shithole. This is a very, very common thing among the far-right grassroots. Witness the streams of poo poo that get posted in the crazy forwarded email thread. That line of thought led him directly to white supremacy, and should encourage more self-reflection among Republicans. Information Literacy could have prevented this, then. DEFUND LIBRARIES
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Jun 21, 2015 01:46
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beatlegs posted:Most Americans self medicate on one drug or another. There's no evidence that this turns people into murderous racists. No, but having a lack of empathy for human beings and completely hosed up cognitive functioning probably has something to do with it. Something like psychopathy or ASPD. These are conditions that you can't cure, but meds like antidepressants or antipsychotics can be used to treat symptoms like aggression. Abusing recreational drugs or especially alcohol can make it much worse. Planning and executing a shooting spree against random people is as extreme a form of aggression as it gets. No "sane" person does poo poo like that, it's a gross rejection of societal norms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder I've already seen plenty of articles today poo poo talking SSRI's full of misinformation, they always get paraded around since Columbine. Very frustrating.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:49
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Smoothrich posted:No, but having a lack of empathy for human beings and completely hosed up cognitive functioning probably has something to do with it. Something like psychopathy or ASPD. These are conditions that you can't cure, but meds like antidepressants or antipsychotics can be used to treat symptoms like aggression. So you think that all the Nazis, all the slaveowners in the US, all the US soldiers that shot American Indians, they were all psychopaths? You are really loving embarassing yourself here. It's okay to admit that the GOP has been making GBS threads out horrible racist rhetoric to appeal to their racist white base they need to energize to win elections. It's okay to admit that and still be a Republican, you've just got to want to change it. But if you can't admit it, if you can't deal with it, the GOP is only going to get worse and worse and worse. Your whip in the house was tight with Kenneth Knight, one of David Duke's main advisors and political organizers. Rush Limbaugh is someone people in your party were kowtowing too not so long ago. GOP conventions fire off dog whistles with astonishing regularity. It is a problem, and if you don't fix it, your party is going to be relegated to dirtier and dirtier gerrymandering and electoral tricks to try to cling to power and relevancy, and it's not going to be pretty. There are a ton of minorities who are actually 'conservative' but you morons are scaring them all away with your obvious white Christian supremacist bullshit. Have a come to jesus moment, repudiate racism, and stop reacting in this pathetic way when a white supremacist actually acts on the rhetoric that Drudge splashes on his webpage every drat day.
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Jun 21, 2015 01:59
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Smoothrich posted:No, but having a lack of empathy for human beings and completely hosed up cognitive functioning probably has something to do with it. Something like psychopathy or ASPD. These are conditions that you can't cure, but meds like antidepressants or antipsychotics can be used to treat symptoms like aggression. Abusing recreational drugs or especially alcohol can make it much worse. Planning and executing a shooting spree against random people is as extreme a form of aggression as it gets. No "sane" person does poo poo like that, it's a gross rejection of societal norms. There's a world of difference between being legitimately mentally impaired and "rejecting social norms". Divorce, being left-handed and dyeing your hair blue were all rejections of social norms not that long ago. Roof may be vile, but his manifesto and words are not nonsensical. He identifies something he considers a problem and acted to 'fix' it, in a manner not really dissimilar to how many, many, MANY people go on about in far-right forums and websites. RaHoWa has been a thing waaaay before he came along. He didn't hear voices. His manuscript is not him saying Helter skelter told him to murder demons clad in black flesh. He just felt as threatened by another race as you would be if you were a hostage in a bank robbery. And if you, as a hostage, managed to grab a gun and kill your assailants, no one would say you were acting crazy or irrational. Guess what? there is a huge apparatus, private and semi-public both, dedicated to stoking people's anxieties and fears to just that level.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:00
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Smoothrich posted:No "sane" person does poo poo like that, it's a gross rejection of societal norms. The DSM has stated for years now that a rejection of societal norms is not enough to make a mental illness.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:01
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Terrorist attacks are never actually politically motivated, says amateur psychologist Smoothrich. Anyone that commits an act of political violence is actually acting because of mental illness, never because of their sincerely held political beliefs. Is this the hill you really want to die on?
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Jun 21, 2015 02:03
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Smoothrich posted:No, but having a lack of empathy for human beings and completely hosed up cognitive functioning probably has something to do with it. Something like psychopathy or ASPD. These are conditions that you can't cure, but meds like antidepressants or antipsychotics can be used to treat symptoms like aggression. Abusing recreational drugs or especially alcohol can make it much worse. Planning and executing a shooting spree against random people is as extreme a form of aggression as it gets. No "sane" person does poo poo like that So I assume you feel the same about ISIS. No sane person would plan and execute mass executions and targeted murders against innocent people, therefore we need to look at members of ISIS as victims of cognitive dysfunction. Are you loving kidding me.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:13
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Obdicut posted:So you think that all the Nazis, all the slaveowners in the US, all the US soldiers that shot American Indians, they were all psychopaths? Now's probably the point where he claims he's actually a leftist, as if doing so would make the people he's arguing with more sympathetic to his batshit views...
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Jun 21, 2015 02:15
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Smoothrich posted:Something like psychopathy or ASPD. Neither of these two groups are particularly known for their commitment to justice or putting ideals and morals ahead of their own well-being and emotions. Roof expressly mentioned feeling bad about shooting his victims, but believed it was necessary. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 02:24
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Gravel Gravy posted:I did read it. If you didnt want to be misunderstood then I would avoid trying to sound like a smartass. I wasn't "trying to sound like a smartass" I'm just really loving sick of people on these forums talking past each other in attempts to get off sick burns instead of actually having discussions about things.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:26
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The South has a race problem, there's no arguing that. I live in South Carolina and when Dylann Roof's motive came out to be racially motivated, it really didn't surprise me. Why go specifically to a black church when there are so many other white churches in abundance you can go shoot up, especially if your aim is "war against Christianity"? Racism is ingrained in your upbringing around here. I mean strongly, strongly reinforced throughout your life. Now I'm not saying that everybody is a White Supremacist Neo Nazi, but there's a lot of "you're superior because you are white". It's bad enough to the point where seeing an interracial couple will make me shake my head up until I suddenly realize what I just did and realize that it's wrong. It's just a trained reaction and very difficult to break, but I'm working myself out of that kind of thinking. This whole bullshit about the Confederate Flag being "heritage, not hate" is so wrong and backwards thinking. Like the concept behind the flag is parallel to what the Nazi flag means for Germany. I've got nothing against honoring Southern soldiers who died in the field of battle, but I don't agree at all about what the Civil War stood for. So yeah, you can point at "mental illness" as a cause for what happened in Charleston. Clearly the kid was knocked off to want to take human life. But there's definitely a strong racial backdrop to the decision that he made. We basically got burned by the good ole boy environment we've created down here and nobody wants to own up to it.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:27
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Lady Naga posted:I wasn't "trying to sound like a smartass" I'm just really loving sick of people on these forums talking past each other in attempts to get off sick burns instead of actually having discussions about things. Why arent people on the comedy forum not taking things as seriously as I want them too???
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Jun 21, 2015 02:36
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Business Gorillas posted:Why arent people on the comedy forum not taking things as seriously as I want them too??? I'm sorry but this argument only makes sense if either party is actually funny.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:42
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beatlegs posted:Most Americans self medicate on one drug or another. There's no evidence that this turns people into murderous racists.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:45
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FMguru posted:FACT: Before FDA approval of Fluoxitine (aka Proxac) in 1987, there was no racial violence in America.* *Except black on white crime, of course.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:48
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Lady Naga posted:I wasn't "trying to sound like a smartass" I'm just really loving sick of people on these forums talking past each other in attempts to get off sick burns instead of actually having discussions about things. Then I'd recommend not doing the thing you purportedly hate to begin with.
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Jun 21, 2015 02:57
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fade5 posted:As a sidenote/supporting note, the "enormous burden of proof" Xibanya mentions is really is enormous. How enormous does it have to be? there's a great comic called My Friend Dahmer written by a guy who was actual irl friends with Jeff Dahmer in high school. it explains a lot about how and why Dahmer did what he did, humanizing him without excusing him at all  
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Jun 21, 2015 04:29
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Smoothrich posted:an exemplary figure of the black community This is some very poor, very telling, wording edit: I thought this sounded really lovely, like what a virulent racist would begrudgingly say about an Uncle Tom that was agreeing with them, but thinking back I was just being nitpicky. Sorry Smoothrich. (it didn't even work that way in the original context) RoanHorse fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 05:06
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Smoothrich posted:Yeah. He believes in a Zionist conspiracy and racial subjugation. He's loving crazy. Its basically Mein Kampf poo poo. He's a deranged extreme right-wing lunatic drug addict with a handgun. He probably should've been in a god drat mental institution like many paranoid delusional people, not out getting drunk waving a gun around seething in rage and hatred. His own actions are extremely hypocritical.. he's saying YOU RAPE OUR WOMEN! as he's killing women and a pastor! Who was apparently an exemplary figure of the black community, the kind of guy that makes America better for everyone. Look man, I believe in evil as a concept, I believe in it as a force that exists in the universe. That in no way means he magically isn't responsible for what he did. He made a conscious choice to give in to evil. He made a conscious choice to give in to evil for like six loving months, dude, as he ranted and raved about how the blacks are evil and we need a race war to purge them and the Jews. Racism and hatred are evil things, but they're not inherently mental illnesses, you can be a perfectly functioning person and be consumed with hate. By every metric, a man who sits down, writes a huge manifesto, spends MONTHS talking and planning out things, is not 'just mentally ill'. Hitler was an evil man, I don't think there's any real debate on that topic worth having, but he was also fully in control of his mental facilities when he decided 'let's murder tens of millions of people', his logic was twisted and evil but he was in control of his mind. When you just wave a man off as evil and crazy you're saying 'so we don't have to really look deeper at this' and that's an incredibly dangerous position to take for guys like this. He's not the product of mental illness, he's the product of a culture and society where white supremacy is allowed to flourish. Do you think every KKK member and every neo-nazi is just insane and evil and that's all there is to that?
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Jun 21, 2015 05:34
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RoanHorse posted:This is some very poor, very telling, wording Nah I getcha. The killer is a joke and a tremendous rear end in a top hat mostly. He thinks black people are criminals and subhuman savages or whatever so he kills someone who is the polar opposite of every racist caricature he held in his heart, a leader of civic virtue and character, and even saying You Rape Our Women! as he kills mostly women. If he had integrity he'd be going to some inner city and trying to kill gang bangers like some Travis Bickle wannabe. I find it hard to solely blame racism when the shooter is killing helpless random good people in a church for his delusional power fantasy of triggering a race war, that's simply megalomaniacal.
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Jun 21, 2015 05:41
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Smoothrich posted:If he had integrity he'd be going to some inner city and trying to kill gang bangers like some Travis Bickle wannabe. You're loving stupid.
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Jun 21, 2015 05:50
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Dr Christmas posted:A few years ago, someone started a GBS photoshop thread for Politically Incorrect Guides. Someone made a really good Politically Incorrect Guide to Superman written by Lex Luthor. edit: 
Hazo fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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