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We've generally been looking 100k-175k below our budget. The upsetting thing on this house is the investor bids started at 25%-30% over - which puts it at the same price as nicer, newer, larger houses on the same street that sold within the past 3 months. What makes me most upset is when investment money starts taking on risk - that's when we start going into bubble land, it's not something I wanna see at all - but it's more probable we just got unlucky here, rather than that being the norm. Another house we really liked (saw first week, the mrs. wasn't aware how good an option it was and was still thinking we could be way above our budget) sold $10k below listing and $150+ below what we just got outbid on just 30 days ago. Ahhh well, gotta let it go, new weekend of houses this weekend. This thread is a wonderful place to vent housing frustration, I really appreciate y'all.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:34
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Yup there's a ton of variance on top of the general principle of overbidding; because it's hard to price a house and people are bad at it, so some houses are listed well above or below what they should be... and also, it only takes one maniac to severely overbid on the one house you wanted.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:43
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QuarkJets posted:fwiw you should hire an inspector even if you don't have an inspection contingency Just for curiosity's sake, are people even letting inspectors in during your walkthroughs? Bay area madness and all that, but when I was hunting a few years back, a lot of listings had "No inspections allowed, walkthroughs with primary purchaser and agent only," sorts of things in the listings.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:58
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What happens when you buy a house at a high price, its value drops to a very low price, and you then sell for less than the remaining money on your mortgage? For example, you buy a condo at 500k, then two years later all hell breaks loose and housing prices drop so much that your condo is now worth $200k. You’re now on the hook for continuing to pay for that remaining ~$250k, so you decide gently caress it and sell to go rent somewhere else. You get ~$200k in exchange for the condo, and try to pay off your mortgage with that. But that’s not enough money - you need another $50k to satisfy the lender. Is that accurate? Are you on the hook for that $50k?
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Apr 26, 2022 19:02
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Sundae posted:Just for curiosity's sake, are people even letting inspectors in during your walkthroughs? Bay area madness and all that, but when I was hunting a few years back, a lot of listings had "No inspections allowed, walkthroughs with primary purchaser and agent only," sorts of things in the listings. That's the kind of house you want to run from because it's publicizing that it has very fundamental and expensive issues. If that's all there is available in your market you're at the price point where the only properties left are D/F housing stock in severe maintenance debt, i.e. if this is your max price you can't afford to buy. Also, a lot of bay area housing stock in certain price ranges aren't being sold for the house, they are being sold for the land. The sellers know this, there are buyers who are interested in only the land, and they don't want to deal with people who can't afford what this property will be sold for niggling over something the actual winning buyers will be tearing down anyway.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:02
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You can’t even sell without satisfying the mortgage. It’s secured debt. You would have to bring the 50k to the table when you sell the place. Short sales are an option, as are just walking away from the place.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:04
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Pollyanna posted:What happens when you buy a house at a high price, its value drops to a very low price, and you then sell for less than the remaining money on your mortgage? Yeah, you’re underwater. Same thing as if you buy a new car financed for $30k, drive it off the lot and decide you don’t like it, so you sell it for $25k…you still $5k on a $30k loan so you have to come up with the $5k in order to sell. My previous townhouse I rented was purchased in 2006 at the height of the market, fully financed. Then the market crashed and the owners just held onto it until last year when they finally sold for about $10k more than they had purchased it for. It sucks.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:05
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Pollyanna posted:What happens when you buy a house at a high price, its value drops to a very low price, and you then sell for less than the remaining money on your mortgage? e: You can short sale only if the bank agrees to it. If they decide they'll make more money that way, they'll go straight to foreclosure.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:05
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Even in SF & Seattle - that is poo poo you shouldn't touch. The only reason you include that is if you have major repair issues.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:05
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Pollyanna posted:What happens when you buy a house at a high price, its value drops to a very low price, and you then sell for less than the remaining money on your mortgage? Basically yeah. I think you get on the hook for even more due to fees but that is the general idea. That how the last market crash happened, along with a large amount of other things. People got houses with adjustable rate mortgages. They weren't stupid, they know those loans are poo poo once the adjustment happened. The adjustments were usually set out to a date where you would want to refinance the home anyways. The buyer get a nice mortgage because they relayed on the increased value of the house as their collateral. The banks loved this system because they front loaded interest of a mortgage so that the first few years are mostly interest payments. It also inflated home prices which they charge a percent based on the loans. It all worked perfectly until when it came time to refinance the home loans and the houses were now a lower value than total of loan.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:21
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yup. Had to do it once. Not fun. This is illegal, and while not universally practices (BofA is a fucker) the bank is way better off with a short sale as well. There's also some options (outside remittance/repay plans) to gently caress around with depending on how close you are. Short sales, DIL's, and foreclosure are on your credit score for 7 years - if you're not in your 20's it's really key to avoid it. If you are falling behind - your first step is ask for documentation of the entire mortgage history from your bank. Any mistake they may have made buys you a couple months. Your fees are capped, and considered last in - so interest/principle won't be building on them. From there try and work out a repay/remit plan. Then you can try and sell it even baking every buyer incentive in you can. Then you try a short sale. Try everything you can to make the short sale work. While bad, you're likely only looking at 30-50 points on your credit still. DIL - you're hosed. Your finances are hosed and you should consider if you value near and long term future - DIL is better on credit and you can buy again, foreclosure you get another 4-6+ months to live in the house mortgage free and if that's what keeps you from being homeless near term. Do not, under any circumstances, try and get revenge on the bank by filling your basement with cement or death threats. You will pay dearly for it. You can go to the foreclosure auction and toss pennies at the auctioneer's feet and say it's your bid for each house though. If for whatever reason your servicer becomes Ocwen - this is severely bad. Look for an attorney immediately. Record literally every conversation. They exist exclusively to conduct illegal servicing practices and foreclosures. 1st_Panzer_Div. fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 26, 2022 |
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Apr 26, 2022 19:26
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people posted:lol Okay, so it’s even more important to pay a mortgage off as soon as possible, and even more important to buying within your means. And that makes buying conservatively a far better idea. Also, that means you can get deeply screwed over if you own during a crash. Housing prices are tied to wages and compensation; if housing prices go down, so too do your salary and other sources of income. If there’s a crash, you now need to pay a large sum of pre-crash money with a low post-crash compensation. Housing seems to be just like the stock market - be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. It’s just that instead of having less money than you thought when the economy takes a dump, you can now no longer pay off debts you’ve already committed to, and that is WAYYYYYYY WORSE.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:27
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I'll fill my basement with death threats if I want to and there's nothing the bank can do about it
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Apr 26, 2022 19:28
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Pollyanna posted:Okay, so it’s even more important to pay a mortgage off as soon as possible, and even more important to buying within your means. And that makes buying conservatively a far better idea. No. That's the wrong lesson to take away from this. It's more important to have positive equity. A mortgage at super low interest rates is a fantastic deal, and should not be paid off faster than your other higher interest debt or paid off instead of saving for retirement, etc.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:31
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Agreed on it being really dumb to try to buy and not have at least that much socked away in a savings account. But being underwater can last waaaay more than 6 months, it took years to recover from 08. And something going horribly wrong also includes a housing crash, not just something going wrong that’s my own fault. I’m trying to figure out what my safest option is, because a purchase can be just as risky as an investment. The market does not fill me with confidence, from what I’ve seen.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:43
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Leperflesh posted:I'll fill my basement with death threats if I want to and there's nothing the bank can do about it Fun story - when doing foreclosure post '08, a variety of scams were common. One cali scammer (San Jose) was coming up too often - they ran two scams. The first one was the most common - they were renting out foreclosed properties (which they didn't own) and the tenants would get a nasty shock after new owners showed up in a few months. I really hated people that ran this scam. The other scam, was wild - it built off the USPS is the highest law in the land and legal documents with a stamp/bloody finger print on top superseded all law. It traced back to a misinterpretation on a SCOTUS ruling about maritime law and legal timings for sailors. The scam was $50-$250 for a piece of paper with a bloody stamp saying the debt was invalid. This mofo took it to a new level though, and was charging $500 - out of a fake legal office, where he signed "as an attorney and legal representative of [lender]" an full legal form that said your debt has been waived by the bank. Doesn't hold up or stop the foreclosure, but was a more serious scam. Guy's name was appearing multiple times a week, so collected a few dozen and called up the FBI. FBI basically said - yup, poo poo is bad enough we can't touch anything under $10M in volume in this type of fraud, sorry. AG office was the similar. So I brainstormed with another person for a while and we decided to send a few of them to Wells Fargo's legal dept. 2 weeks later WF legal forwarded us a news article - guy was arrested on thousands of felony counts - fraud, perjury, drug possession, theft, just any possible thing. Couple months later is sentencing. ~400 convictions of class c/d felonies, lotta fines, largest conviction was 9 months. Except he was sentenced consecutively not concurrently ultimately being well over a hundred years. Don't gently caress with the banks.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:43
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Pollyanna, this concept as well as what a home mortgage actually is has been gone over with you in this and other BFC thread at least three times in the last few years that I can recall. It seems you still have fundamental misunderstandings about mortgages, secured loans, home value at purchase and home "value" during your ownership and their relationships to your payments (i.e. they do not change) as well as what other things could change your payments (taxes and insurance if escrowed) and now you've latched onto the idea of being underwater and what that means for a secured loan. I really, really think you should pursue a fire time homebuyer's course. Like immediately if you're actually serious about buying. The gaps in your knowledge seem to come out at random intervals and some are seriously seriously concerning for someone who is appears to be actually looking to buy a home and sign a 30 year loan. While I know you've picked things up here, it's really difficult for you or any of us to know what you don't know.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:44
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Motronic posted:I really, really think you should pursue a fire time homebuyer's course. Like immediately if you're actually serious about buying. https://www.fanniemae.com/education It's free, it's good, it's only a few hours, and there's a number of first time homebuyer loan programs that require this specific course. I couldn't agree more with Motronic on this.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:54
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I’ll take the course.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:57
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Signed the papers this morning, it was not too bad. Looks like everything should go through smoothly since the contractors finished up this weekend and we should get the keys Thursday!
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Apr 26, 2022 20:09
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Pollyanna posted:Agreed on it being really dumb to try to buy and not have at least that much socked away in a savings account. But being underwater can last waaaay more than 6 months, it took years to recover from 08. And something going horribly wrong also includes a housing crash, not just something going wrong that’s my own fault. Yeah the point I'm making is that accelerating payments on your cheapest debt is something you do only if you have no other more expensive debt. Doing otherwise is suboptimal financially and doing suboptimal financial things is how you wind up in trouble in the first place. A foreclosure is bad, of course it's bad, but practice good financial habits and you'll be less likely to find yourself in one. Consider where you buy... are you tied to a single employer, in a place where nobody else hires people with your skills? Maybe that's not a good place to buy a house... People who bought in 2008 and were underwater for 5 years were only in actual trouble if they had to sell. As long as you can make payments, you're OK. Buy a house you can afford, with savings that can carry you through a period of unemployment, and with sufficient money down to handle even a serious recession and drop in house prices. That's how you protect yourself from foreclosure. Building equity is smart when you're already maxing out your retirement accounts/meeting your retirement savings goals, have sufficient emergency funds, and have nothing else to do with surplus money. There's people who plow money into extra payments on their houses while carrying credit card debt at near 20%, have a car loan, don't have sufficient cash savings, etc. and that's just not justified by a sober assessment and comparison of the risks and costs.
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Apr 26, 2022 20:14
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How does offering over asking even work? I thought that your lender won't give you a loan for more than the home is appraised at. Do you have to just have the extra cash on hand to make a massive down payment?
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Apr 26, 2022 22:12
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It depends, if you make an offer over asking and it appraises for what you offered or higher then you are good to go. If it appraises lower you need to cover the appraisal gap in cash or no deal.
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Apr 26, 2022 22:18
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BigPaddy posted:If it appraises lower you need to cover the appraisal gap in cash or no deal. They will adjust the LTV with the V as the appraised price, which may or may not meaningfully affect your financing
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Apr 26, 2022 22:49
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Yup. Had to do it once. Not fun. The caveat to foreclosure and how that gets handled is somewhat dependent upon how your state/local laws protect you (or don't). Arizona's housing market got turbofucked in the last recession because state law requires that if a house is foreclosed on and the house sells for less than the remaining balance on the loan, the bank can't come after you for the difference between the sale and the loan. Between that and how many foreclosures were backlogged, circa 09-10 it became a very viable strategy to just stop paying your mortgage, still live in the house, and stock up a year+ worth of payments in the bank. Yes, your credit still took a hit for the foreclosure, but if you kept all your other bills paid up (including those normally paid via escrow), you weren't in a bad spot.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:15
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:How does offering over asking even work? I thought that your lender won't give you a loan for more than the home is appraised at. Do you have to just have the extra cash on hand to make a massive down payment? The appraisal shouldn't even depend on the ask price, it should depend on the offer price, comps, and the condition of the home. If the house appraises for less than your offer, then that influences how much the bank will loan you. If you wanted 80% LTV then maybe that means settling for 85% and paying PMI for awhile.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:36
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Pollyanna posted:I’ll take the course. Just move to a non recourse state don’t be a nerd.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:40
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IOwnCalculus posted:The caveat to foreclosure and how that gets handled is somewhat dependent upon how your state/local laws protect you (or don't). Arizona's housing market got turbofucked in the last recession because state law requires that if a house is foreclosed on and the house sells for less than the remaining balance on the loan, the bank can't come after you for the difference between the sale and the loan. Between that and how many foreclosures were backlogged, circa 09-10 it became a very viable strategy to just stop paying your mortgage, still live in the house, and stock up a year+ worth of payments in the bank. Yes, your credit still took a hit for the foreclosure, but if you kept all your other bills paid up (including those normally paid via escrow), you weren't in a bad spot. I just looked at Phoenix on Redfin and uhh pricing seems kinda insane on homes. I mean 500K houses in Sunnyslope? Houses around 46th st and Bell going for 750K or more. Seems nuts
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Apr 26, 2022 23:40
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Pollyanna posted:Okay, so it’s even more important to pay a mortgage off as soon as possible, and even more important to buying within your means. And that makes buying conservatively a far better idea. It's better to think of a house as just being the place you live in, first and foremost. If you want to keep living there and can keep making payments then it doesn't really matter what the on-paper value is at any moment. If you need to move and can't pay off the mortgage balance via a traditional sale then you wear your Homer Simpson pants and nail a big ABANDONED sign to the front door before driving off (actually you go through foreclosure but my version is cooler)
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Apr 26, 2022 23:42
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skipdogg posted:I just looked at Phoenix on Redfin and uhh pricing seems kinda insane on homes. I mean 500K houses in Sunnyslope? Houses around 46th st and Bell going for 750K or more. Seems nuts House prices here went up 36% in one year it is pretty nuts. Just come come slum it out with me on the Avenues and enjoy insane prices on houses built when Glendale was founded.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:44
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skipdogg posted:I just looked at Phoenix on Redfin and uhh pricing seems kinda insane on homes. I mean 500K houses in Sunnyslope? Houses around 46th st and Bell going for 750K or more. Seems nuts The Phoenix market makes no sense, there's nothing of value in that entire state, I grew up in Phoenix and that should serve as a precautionary tale The whole region is literally running out of water lol
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Apr 26, 2022 23:45
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QuarkJets posted:The whole region is literally running out of water lol But let us talk about how great our golf courses are and look a semi conductor plant that uses a gently caress ton of water.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:47
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QuarkJets posted:The Phoenix market makes no sense, there's nothing of value in that entire state, I grew up in Phoenix and that should serve as a precautionary tale I was raised there (Mesa), went into the military when I was 24 thinking I’d always move back once I retired. 16 years later and now looking at that place…I don’t think we’ll be going back…maybe the occasional Christmas to take a break from New England winters. A coworker of mine is getting ready to retire this year and had been thinking about Mesa retirement for years but after seeing the house pricing he noped the gently caress out. nwin fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Apr 26, 2022 |
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Apr 26, 2022 23:48
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skipdogg posted:I just looked at Phoenix on Redfin and uhh pricing seems kinda insane on homes. I mean 500K houses in Sunnyslope? Houses around 46th st and Bell going for 750K or more. Seems nuts You really want nuts, look at what Queen Creek is going for now, and then Coolidge and Casa Grande. Drive Til You Qualify is turning into Fly Til You Qualify. And I'm broke-brained / tied down enough here that I'll probably be here through whatever water wars are coming.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:52
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QuarkJets posted:The Phoenix market makes no sense, there's nothing of value in that entire state, I grew up in Phoenix and that should serve as a precautionary tale I moved away in late 2006. It’s insane to see houses in sunnyslope you could buy for under 100k back then selling for half a million now, or way out in Avondale going for 400k+
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Apr 26, 2022 23:53
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IOwnCalculus posted:You really want nuts, look at what Queen Creek is going for now, and then Coolidge and Casa Grande. Drive Til You Qualify is turning into Fly Til You Qualify. Do they have water restrictions at all and/or does SRP just charge out the rear end for it?
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Apr 26, 2022 23:53
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I haven’t seen anything about restrictions but my water, sewer and trash are all one bill from the city. Builder of my place put in grass and a sprinkler system which cost like $400 a month to run for crappy grass. Which I am sure made sense for someone.
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Apr 26, 2022 23:59
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Never mind. SRP was electric -no idea what it’s now.
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Apr 27, 2022 00:08
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We got our house! Had to go way over asking but we were barely above two offers that waived inspections and mortgage contingencies, but we got 5k higher and waived anything on the inspection less than 10k. The house is in great shape so we’re still safe if the foundation turns out to be made of newspaper. What a nightmare. Competing against all these all-cash inspection-waived offers has been awful. This is in a more blue-collar part of town too where home prices were half this just two-three years ago. Just glad to be done. Had to kiss a lot of frogs but we finally got a good one. Had to walk away from our first offer when it turns out it needed 100k plus in work including completely re-grading the ground next to the walls.
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Apr 27, 2022 00:17
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Congrats Tom!
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Apr 27, 2022 00:32
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