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thefakenews posted:A few posters in this thread have talked about the potential of digital presentation of RPG rules info. It looks like a Swedish (I think) company called Riot Minds are trying something of that kind with their games, and one of them has just been made available in English. The game itself doesn't look like it's a terribly original design, and I don't know if the presentation goes much beyond a hyperlinked ebook, but the site has a bunch of nice Paul Bonner art on it, so that's something. This looks good but I can't dig particularly deep without creating an account and forking over money, so I'm going to have to reserve judgement. But it's certainly the kind of framework I would love to see in RPGs, and that's at least a step in the right direction.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:50
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Ignite Memories posted:Is it weird that I play DnD with people hundreds of miles away from myself via online RP tools, and that none of them are willing to purchase reading material to play the game? Jointly buy a D&D Insider account. It will come out to like $4 a person for a 4 person group and everyone will have access to all the rules with all the errata. Also, a character builder that makes building characters easy as pie.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:51
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Fallorn posted:Also it's not just RPG's that could use technical writing the L5R (thank god it's dead) CCG had tons of natural language for card text and rules that made some cards not work as you reading them would lead you to think. To be fair, early Magic was at least as bad. They've tidied it up a lot over the years.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:52
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Fallorn posted:Most groups I played with were in person and one or two people at the table had the books. So its just based on thinking it was a similar set up. Even if that were the case, one thing that always bugged me about 4E is that there are multiple players handbooks, and multiple iterations of what the 'base' rule set is. I've asked a few times what is the 4E equivalent of buying just the basic PHB/DMG/MM setup is, and I keep getting different answers (although they always mention the business card). What is the cheapest way to know how to play 4th edition? Covok posted:Jointly buy a D&D Insider account. It will come out to like $4 a person for a 4 person group and everyone will have access to all the rules with all the errata. Also, a character builder that makes building characters easy as pie. is that $4 monthly? Might be a hard sell. is DnD insider 4th edition, or is that only the most up-to-date stuff? edit: I googled DnD insider 4E and it brought me to this site, which says they aren't taking new subscribers. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 17:52
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Ignite Memories posted:Even if that were the case, one thing that always bugged me about 4E is that there are multiple players handbooks, and multiple iterations of what the 'base' rule set is. I've asked a few times what is the 4E equivalent of buying just the basic PHB/DMG/MM setup is, and I keep getting different answers (although they always mention the business card). D&D Insidee Or Rules Compendium and the player handbooks. On amazon, this wouldn't run ya much. Or you can buy pdfs on D&D Classics and share them with your friends.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:54
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Ignite Memories posted:Is it weird that I play DnD with people hundreds of miles away from myself via online RP tools, and that none of them are willing to purchase reading material to play the game? Yes i think atleast 1 person should buy the rules this is a world where pdf's and dropbox exist you can buy 1 copy of the rules and share with a whole group
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Feb 22, 2016 17:55
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Ignite Memories posted:is that $4 monthly? Might be a hard sell. is DnD insider 4th edition, or is that only the most up-to-date stuff? Yes, monthly. If it still exists, probably just everything up to date. Might not still exist.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:56
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Kurieg posted:5e's development cycle fascinates me because it mirrors 4e's in a weird way. In late 3.5 we started getting the more experimental books: Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Book of Magic, and the second generation of "Complete" Books where they tried to give casters some kind of "thing that deals damage repeatedly from range but is actually worth a drat unlike cantrips" in the reserve feats. Some of these were non-starters (Incarnum, Everything in BoM that wasn't Binder) and some were poorly recieved by a subset of the community (WEEABOO FIGHTIN MANS) but for the most part response was positive and those changes distilled into 4e. I remember looking at the Warlock and Knight from the 3.5 material some time after 4th came out, and smiling to myself when I recognized bits as prototypes to features like marking. It reminded me of their first shot at a Star Wars RPG, and getting a funny feeling I was looking at the dry run for a third edition.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:57
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The problem with insider is that they shut down the ability for new subscribers to join in, and haven't said when it's going to go back up. The cynic in me says "never so they can force people to play 5e", but the optimist in me says "why the hell would they shut down a revenue stream?" There are ways to find the PDFs online and the CB Loader exists, it's just sort of 
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Feb 22, 2016 18:04
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Ignite Memories posted:I can buy myself ten copies of the rulebooks, it's not going to change the fact that my friends won't have access to the rules. Is this because you have eleven friends?
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Feb 22, 2016 18:09
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If my game group wants to play Agricola or Twilight Imperium or Thunderstone, only one of us needs to own it. I think a lot of non-GM players regard RPGs the same way, and that's not unreasonable. D&D Insider was the first RPG product I can recall that at least nominally recognized and supported that, with tools/accounts you could share with up to, iirc, 6 people.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:13
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Elfgames posted:no because SRD's allow people to steal and reprint your game , like i get where you're coming from but i find it so weird to say I want to play this game but i'd rather not actually pay for it 1st Stage Midboss posted:Unfortunately not, 4e's much tighter third-party license means people can't just reproduce all the rules. You totally can though! US copyright law is extremely lenient when it comes to games. You can copyright the actual rules text and all art in the game, but the mechanics themselves cannot be copyrighted (as they're a procedure for doing something). The only real exception/grey area is tabulated values, since that usually involves very specific text. It's of course easier to just rote-copy the actual text out of the D&D SRD under a specific license, but if you really want to, you could create a functional clone of 5E without copyright infringement. (Though Hasbro might take unkindly to this and take you to court anyway, since they have tons of money and you don't.)
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Feb 22, 2016 18:19
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Kurieg posted:The problem with insider is that they shut down the ability for new subscribers to join in, and haven't said when it's going to go back up. The cynic in me says "never so they can force people to play 5e", but the optimist in me says "why the hell would they shut down a revenue stream?" There are ways to find the PDFs online and the CB Loader exists, it's just sort of Exactly. Wizards of the Coast won't allow me to pay for this content digitally. So now you're jumping down my throat because I asked if there was a way for me to access those rules for free, and suggesting that if I spend $10 buying the pdf from someone else (not wizards) and then manually pirating it to my friends, that this is better somehow for wizards of the coast? It's STILL a worse situation than the SRD, because everyone would still be shuffling from PDF to PDF instead of just having a centralized repository of this information. Nobody wants to look through 4 different digital books just to find out what base classes they're allowed to take. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 18:24
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Ignite Memories posted:Exactly. Wizards of the Coast won't allow me to pay for this content digitally. So now you're jumping down my throat because I asked if there was a way for me to access those rules for free, and suggesting that if I spend $10 buying the pdf from someone else (not wizards) and then manually pirating it to my friends, that this is better somehow for wizards of the coast? We aren't jumping down your throat. We're just saying that it would be (and was) dumb of WOTC to put the bulk of their rules online for free because that resulted in Paizo eating their lunch the last time. 5e's doing something sort of similar but it's a hyper pared down version of the rules that doesn't let you really do anything worthwhile without the actual books. It sucks that you can't access to Insider, but if the players can get access to CB Loader then they should be set, the DM's the only one who needs the rules compendium and the MMs.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:32
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Ignite Memories posted:Exactly. Wizards of the Coast won't allow me to pay for this content digitally. So now you're jumping down my throat because I asked if there was a way for me to access those rules for free, and suggesting that if I spend $10 buying the pdf from someone else (not wizards) and then manually pirating it to my friends, that this is better somehow for wizards of the coast? you can buy the pdf's from drive thru rpg which gives money to wizards of the coast so you can buy the content digitally and yeah it's better to share a purchased product with your group instead of everyone going to a website and using the rules for free.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:33
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Downloading the CB loader now to take a look. Does the CB loader have the rules for all the character powers, or just tell you which ones you're allowed to take?Elfgames posted:you can buy the pdf's from drive thru rpg which gives money to wizards of the coast so you can buy the content digitally and yeah it's better to share a purchased product with your group instead of everyone going to a website and using the rules for free. Point made, but it's dumb that if I jump through these hoops I'm still left with a less usable product than just having a website with the rules on it.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:34
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Ignite Memories posted:Downloading the CB loader now to take a look. Does the CB loader have the rules for all the character powers, or just tell you which ones you're allowed to take? I mean yeah it's convenient but i don't think a company should be obligated to give the game away for free.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:36
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Ignite Memories posted:Downloading the CB loader now to take a look. Does the CB loader have the rules for all the character powers, or just tell you which ones you're allowed to take? It has all the player facing rules, but no GM facing rules. Give it to the players and they will know everything about their characters, but you will know nothing about the monsters or overall rules.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:37
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Elfgames posted:I mean yeah it's convenient but i don't think a company should be obligated to give the game away for free. I never said they were, but they should at least have a modern avenue for obtaining said rules. Y'all might have convinced me to buy an insider account if that was still an option. Covok posted:It has all the player facing rules, but no GM facing rules. Give it to the players and they will know everything about their characters, but you will know nothing about the monsters or overall rules. This might be the best bet, then. I'll look into how cheap I can get the rules for myself, and how accessible the character builder is. I'd rather they have all the rules for their own character in front of them than having access to all the rules but needing to comb through several pdfs to locate them every few minutes. Thanks for the help, Covok+Kurieg! Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 18:37
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Ignite Memories posted:I never said they were, but they should at least have a modern avenue for obtaining said rules. Y'all might have convinced me to buy an insider account if that was still an option. Yeah, we were just having a conversation about how buying access to a website would be better for the modern era than books.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:39
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Of course, this brings me back to my earlier dilemma, which is that they don't really make it clear which books you actually need to play. PHB1-3, DMG, MM1? Some people made it sound like the Essentials line is the most comprehensive set, but other people have made it sound like the Essentials classes got dumbed down to be more like 3E. It's kind of a Wii U situation, where the marketing didn't effectively communicate what the product was and who it was for. edit: character builder is windows only 
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Feb 22, 2016 18:44
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Insider was bringing in an amazing amount of money, and probably still is, but it didn't change the fact that post phb3 books languished on the shelves. And they apparently didn't set up insider in such a way that they could gather subscription numbers in a simple fashion. I have no idea why they brought insider down because it's still free money for no work, they don't even have to write dungeon and dragon articles anymore. e: Ignite Memories posted:Of course, this brings me back to my earlier dilemma, which is that they don't really make it clear which books you actually need to play. PHB1-3, DMG, MM1? Some people made it sound like the Essentials line is the most comprehensive set, but other people have made it sound like the Essentials classes got dumbed down to be more like 3E. The rules compendium is the most comprehensive and up to date collection of DM rules they have, probably better than the 1st DMG. The DMG2 has some good rules for campaign ideas and modifying monsters and dungeons to keep them fresh. MM1 and MM2 have the bad monster math so don't feel obligated to pick those up. MM3 and the Monster Vaults do have new helpful information. The 1st PHB is horrendously out of date as far as how it's powers, class features, etc, all work. PHB2 to a lesser extent because even if the classes are still intact all the races got a floating +2 the same as the PHB3 races did in the Essentials update. The Heroes of X Books are all essentials, and to a certain extent the classes are dumbed down. If you aren't a wizard you don't get real power choice, and if you're a Martial you don't get full AEUDS, but they might be a good starting point for a group just getting into 4e and not sure if they want to go whole hog on the quote/unquote "real" classes. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 18:44
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The "CB Loader" application allows you to use the old, offline ("fat client") Character Builder application. If you grab the right files and do the dance correctly, you can also grab the libraries that were made right around or even slightly after they discontinued the offline character builder in favor of the online-only web-based one, and those libraries include the Essentials content. The 4th Edition D&D Compendium has the complete rules for the monsters, and you can also look up game rules on a keyword basis. It's a wonderful reference, but an awful way to learn how to play the game. The key thing here is that 4th edition is a discontinued product. It's not surprising or even especially egregious that Wizards of the Coast isn't going out of its way to support the game with easily obtainable digital products. Few other games have their older editions still in print, available in PDF via third-party sellers, etc. LatwPIAT posted:You totally can though! US copyright law is extremely lenient when it comes to games. You can copyright the actual rules text and all art in the game, but the mechanics themselves cannot be copyrighted (as they're a procedure for doing something). The only real exception/grey area is tabulated values, since that usually involves very specific text. It's of course easier to just rote-copy the actual text out of the D&D SRD under a specific license, but if you really want to, you could create a functional clone of 5E without copyright infringement. (Though Hasbro might take unkindly to this and take you to court anyway, since they have tons of money and you don't.) This is absolutely correct, and actually, the fact nobody has gone ahead and done it pretty well proves that the law has failed to protect people's fair use rights. The threat of lawsuit has created an obvious and evident chilling effect on the willingness of the public to exercise their fair use rights w/r/t game rules. If it isn't clear to everyone: creative works belong at a fundamental level to the commons. Copyright, trademark, and patent laws are all "takings" from the commons; they exist only because lawmakers recognized that reserving reproduction rights (copyright) or use rights (patents) for a limited time to their inventors serves the useful purpose of incentivizing creators to make their works available to the public. Since game rules are not copyrightable, they belong to the commons. That's not some kind of manifesto or ethical argument, either: it's a matter of legal fact that the mechanism of Dungeons and Dragons (of any edition) belongs to We the People. We have a right to make use of that mechanism however we see fit, up to and including copying it, duplicating it, publishing it, and using it as a basis for our own creative works. You can't trade on the trademarked word "Beholder" or "Mindflayer" but you can still use the game's mechanics. So why isn't there a free, online, HTML-based reference for 4th edition D&D? Simply because anyone capable and motivated to make it has been deterred by the implied threat of expensive legal action, despite having the very clear and unambiguous legal precedents backing them.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:50
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Kurieg posted:The rules compendium is the most comprehensive and up to date collection of DM rules they have, probably better than the 1st DMG. The DMG2 has some good rules for campaign ideas and modifying monsters and dungeons to keep them fresh. MM1 and MM2 have the bad monster math so don't feel obligated to pick those up. MM3 and the Monster Vaults do have new helpful information. The 1st PHB is horrendously out of date as far as how it's powers, class features, etc, all work. PHB2 to a lesser extent because even if the classes are still intact all the races got a floating +2 the same as the PHB3 races did in the Essentials update. I wish there were a simpler answer than this. So monster manual 3 is the only one with 'good math', but the only reason I would want a monster manual is to have stats for the "basic" monsters (goblins and skeletons and poo poo) that I can then extrapolate from. By the time they get to MM3 wouldn't we be looking at the really obscure monsters that they didn't have room for in the first two? I want normal monsters. Is it a better idea to just buy MM1 and keep the postcard on hand? I already kludge monster stats around whenever things feel too difficult/easy. So does the PHB3 have rules for the classes from PHB 1 and 2? When I looked at them in a bookstore, it seemed like all the classes were split between the 3 books. Are some classes more out-of-date and broken than the others, even between the same edition of players' handbooks? Kurieg posted:The Heroes of X Books are all essentials, and to a certain extent the classes are dumbed down. If you aren't a wizard you don't get real power choice, and if you're a Martial you don't get full AEUDS, but they might be a good starting point for a group just getting into 4e and not sure if they want to go whole hog on the quote/unquote "real" classes. I wouldn't even be thinking about 4E if I wanted the game to play like 3E. Lord knows I've already spent too much money on 3E material. Leperflesh posted:The 4th Edition D&D Compendium has the complete rules for the monsters, and you can also look up game rules on a keyword basis. It's a wonderful reference, but an awful way to learn how to play the game. Sheesh. Jeezum crow. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 18:55
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Ignite Memories posted:I wish there were a simpler answer than this. quote:So does the PHB3 have rules for the classes from PHB 1 and 2? When I looked at them in a bookstore, it seemed like all the classes were split between the 3 books. Are some classes more out-of-date and broken than the others, even between the same edition of players' handbooks? The most powerful classes are all in PHB1, and they are pretty much Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Wizard, Warlord. That's largely a function of the volume of post-publishing support.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:02
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If the most powerful classes are in the PHB1, why is it considered the most out-of-date? Did the power levels go down in subsequent books? Or is it because the PHB1 classes aren't good without material from other books?dwarf74 posted:Get Monster Vault and stop worrying. It's even better, mathematically and thematically, than MM3. It also has the iconic monsters everyone expects. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 19:05
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Ignite Memories posted:If the most powerful classes are in the PHB1, why is it considered the most out-of-date? Did the power levels go down in subsequent books? Or is it because the PHB1 classes aren't good without material from other books? it's mostly the races that are out of date but yes the PHB classes got a huuuge amount of support that other classes didn't
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Feb 22, 2016 19:15
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Ignite Memories posted:If the most powerful classes are in the PHB1, why is it considered the most out-of-date? Did the power levels go down in subsequent books? Or is it because the PHB1 classes aren't good without material from other books? The classes got a lot of post PHB1 support and errata to smooth out their issues, and also some just questionable amounts of errata. So for instance, the Paladin benefits a lot from multimarking powers from Divine Power to make it more defender-y. If you can find it, most of the PHB 1 classes near the end of the edition got Class Compendium write-ups as free PDFs on WotC's site with all their errata rolled into them and all of their PHB1 material, also errata'd. Problem is well, finding anything on WotC's site.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:16
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I looked for the class compendium stuff and the website asked me to sign in to insider.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:20
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Fourth Edition is dead and Mearls killed it. The good ones always die young.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:25
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Ignite Memories posted:I looked for the class compendium stuff and the website asked me to sign in to insider. I know this is just throwing more options out there, but have you looked into one of the games that have some 4e DNA like 13th Age or Strike? You didn't really specify what it was about 4e that sounded like everything you've always wanted, so I'm not sure how relevant these options are, but they're at the very least way easier to get into and don't require you to track down three different out of print books and this and that.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:27
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Ignite Memories posted:I looked for the class compendium stuff and the website asked me to sign in to insider. I found the Warlord via Google searching: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/cc_warlord.pdf I then found the fighter by changing out the class name in the URL, but none of the others worked trying that: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/cc_fighter.pdf Bophf posted:I know this is just throwing more options out there, but have you looked into one of the games that have some 4e DNA like 13th Age or Strike? You didn't really specify what it was about 4e that sounded like everything you've always wanted, so I'm not sure how relevant these options are, but they're at the very least way easier to get into and don't require you to track down three different out of print books and this and that. Yeah, I have to highly recommend Strike. It has pretty much everything I love about 4e, most of the stuff I didn't like about it is gone, and the entire core game is one book, with a few small supplements at the moment. Edit: Here's the Cleric: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/399_cc_cleric.pdf Rogue. It's marked playtest, I can't remember if there was a final one: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/399_cc_cleric.pdf gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 19:28
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The Class Compendium PDFs are available here: http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Arcanist#Arcanist http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Marshal#Marshal http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Scoundrel#Scoundrel http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Templar#Templar http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Weaponmaster If you really want to experience 4e on a tight budget, The Quickstart Rules are still available as a free download
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Feb 22, 2016 19:38
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You guys are asking the questions I didn't realize I should be asking. Thinking about what appeals to me about 4E... I like the fact that everyone is wizards. The basic framework of At-wills and Encounters and Dailies exists for every class, so you don't have people playing rangers looking over to the people playing wizards and wondering why they aren't making as many decisions. I like the way that your role is clear and you've been given tools to accomplish your tasks. In 3rd edition there's no real way to "tank" for somebody. Standing in front of someone else and hoping you get some attacks of opportunity when they run past you to stab the wizard is about the best you get. Marks and stuff give you some more agency to disincentivize behavior in your enemies. I guess it just seems like 4th has a better idea of its design philosophy, and doesn't shy away from boardgamey aspects. I haven't done much reading up on skill challenges, but I remember thinking that they seemed a lot more open-ended and relaxed than skill use in 3rd. Thanks for all the help, by the way! gradenko_2000 posted:The Class Compendium PDFs are available here: Interesting! So even though the titles of the links are the subclass names, these are now considered the de-facto versions of each of the classes presented? Or do I misunderstand? Downloading the quick start rules now, as I look over the class info. If the rules compendium is great reference but bad for learning, do you reckon the quick-start is the best way to learn? Or is there something else y'all would recommend? Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 19:44
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Bophf posted:I know this is just throwing more options out there, but have you looked into one of the games that have some 4e DNA like 13th Age or Strike? You didn't really specify what it was about 4e that sounded like everything you've always wanted, so I'm not sure how relevant these options are, but they're at the very least way easier to get into and don't require you to track down three different out of print books and this and that. I can vouch for both 13th Age and Strike as being great games that can scratch the itch that D&D used to. Ignite Memories posted:You guys are asking the questions I didn't realize I should be asking. This definitely sounds like you may want to check out Strike, as all of this is well represented in the system. Roles are built into the system and classes are separate, allowing for an amazing amount of mixing and matching to create your character. The combat is also very "boardgamey" and focuses on tactics, strategy and teamwork.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:48
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Ignite Memories posted:You guys are asking the questions I didn't realize I should be asking. Since it sounds like all the things about 4e that interest you are mechanical (the board game comparison, at-will/encounter powers for everyone, clear roles) rather than thematics, I definitely encourage you to check out Strike in addition to 4e. I'm playing in games for both and each system has its strength, but give it a look. Here's my thread for it: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3758699
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Feb 22, 2016 19:50
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PHB2 and 3 don't just add classes, though, they also add races, character options, feats, gear, rituals, and rule updates. The updated PDFs of the PHB1 classes incorporate those rule updates, but the other stuff is still useful. If you have the Compendium you have access to all of it, at least the rules parts, so that's fine. As far as learning how to play, the PHB1 and DMG1 are all you need. Everything else made for the game is supplemental material useful more as a reference than as a tutorial for the game. Really though Ignite Memories, you and your group don't have to approach the game as if you need everything that is good and useful for the game, up-front. You can play the game with nothing more than PHB1, DMG1, and any source for monster stats. The game had some math problems from the beginning, but nothing that was actively crippling to the game. First-printing core 4th edition has fewer mechanical issues from the get-go than 3.5, pathfinder, or 5th edition have in their current states. If you have PHB1 and DMG1 and the Monster Vault, or the Compendium, or any monster manual, you've got enough to play for a year or two without running out of material. One more thing: don't worry about not having the "iconic" monsters, if you wind up with just the MM3 or something. As with the powers, class abilities, racial abilities, etc., everything in the monster stats is delightfully re-skinnable. The essence of any monster entry is its mechanics, and you can smear any flavor on top of them that you like. Obviously some mechanics specifically serve the concept of the monster, but even those can often be reflavored to suit. Even better, especially if you have the corrected math, you can adjust levels for any monster pretty easily and not be likely to hit significant limitations. So if you only have the MM3, and you want the party to fight some goblins? Just repurpose the gremlins. Want some orcs? Reflavor the gnolls, perhaps, or the maybe the gargoyle. There's a thread here in TG full of goons who can help you with customizing monsters, too.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:57
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Ignite Memories posted:Interesting! So even though the titles of the links are the subclass names, these are now considered the de-facto versions of each of the classes presented? Or do I misunderstand? Correct. The PHB1 classes got changed to subclasses with those names when the Essentials classes were released.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:59
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I haven't looked at those PDFs, but boy I would not want to mess with Essentials. Is there any way to give IM the erratta'd PHB1 classes without any Essentials guff?
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Feb 22, 2016 20:07
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 23:15 |
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Leperflesh posted:I haven't looked at those PDFs, but boy I would not want to mess with Essentials. Is there any way to give IM the erratta'd PHB1 classes without any Essentials guff? that's what the pdf's are
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Feb 22, 2016 20:10
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