Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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Mystery Prize: Nov 7, 2010

I died when Xom turned a Catoblepas that had just petrified me into an Azure Jelly, then berserked it :shepicide:

100 > 0, I never even got to move haha

# ? Feb 28, 2017 06:13

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# ? May 28, 2024 13:11

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Mystery Prize posted:

So as it would turn out, the Mana Shield and Powered by Pain Demonspawn mutations are pretty absurd together. Spirit Shield is already a great ability, and I regenerate a ton of MP whenever I get hit sufficiently hard. I'm pure melee but have been leveling Spellcasting just for more max MP.

I'd recommend training invo for this instead on a god that uses it because it'll be something you use besides for max MP, and also Ds have +3 invo

# ? Feb 28, 2017 08:05

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Xom is a pal.

quote:

"Ye need some minor improvemn'ts, mortal!!!"
Yer body be suffused wit' distortional energy!
_Ye feel frail! x3

I'm a tengu, too. :v:

# ? Feb 28, 2017 08:16

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

IronicDongz posted:

I'd recommend training invo for this instead on a god that uses it because it'll be something you use besides for max MP, and also Ds have +3 invo

I looked at this and thought "no way. no way" so I looked it up and, lo and behold, invo and evo raise mp

# ? Feb 28, 2017 08:22

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

They sure do! Presumbly for invo it's because god abilities can use MP, although I'm less sure about evo. (handy in case of wandmut? :v:

)

# ? Feb 28, 2017 08:23

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

I looked at this and thought "no way. no way" so I looked it up and, lo and behold, invo and evo raise mp

Note that the MP granted by invocations and evocations are less than spellcasting. For calculating max mp the game uses your highest stat of those 3. However invocation and evocations get divided by 2 for those calculations, while spellcasting remains normal.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 08:29

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

After killing this crimson imp, I now have the weirdest Transmuter in town. He's holding the Obsidian Axe.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 09:31

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

It's like you're really a vine stalker

Get your hands on an antimagic weapon and you will be vinestalker++

# ? Feb 28, 2017 10:49

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Carcer posted:

Get your hands on an antimagic weapon and you will be vinestalker++

Except for the part where you lose a bunch of max MP, anyway.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 13:00

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

Captain Monkey posted:

This is to prevent people from using acquirement to get good equipment in a way that could be 'cheesy' or possibly to accrue minor amounts of xp without danger in some edge cases.

wait, is this actually serious or are you just shitposting

if that's actually serious, what the actual blistering gently caress

acquirement is so ungodly loving rare that burning a scroll and getting something cruddy actually really, really sucks. they're like potions of experience; they're supposed to be a little OP, because it's counterbalanced by the fact that you might find maybe like two of them in a 3-rune, tops.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 13:42

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

of course that's not serious, how could acquirement having a chance to be bad "prevent people from using acquirement to get good equipment in a way that could be 'cheesy'"

I don't even get what the bit about XP is supposed to mean

# ? Feb 28, 2017 13:49

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Acquirement historically was (and still is) kind of a mess in terms of how it works and how to maximize its usefulness, but -6 gloves just sounds like a lovely randart which happens sometimes

# ? Feb 28, 2017 13:53

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

Haifisch posted:

They sure do! Presumbly for invo it's because god abilities can use MP, although I'm less sure about evo. (handy in case of wandmut? )

Probably because of activated item effects like invisibility.

There should be more of those abilities, there's only rage, invisibility, flight, randarts with blink, and the handful of fixedarts with special evocations. Instead of gloves of archery, gloves of portal projectile. Boots of swiftness. Singing hat of slaying!

# ? Feb 28, 2017 14:06

Mystery Prize: Nov 7, 2010

IronicDongz posted:

I'd recommend training invo for this instead on a god that uses it because it'll be something you use besides for max MP, and also Ds have +3 invo

This would have been a great idea, if I were not worshiping The Best God, Xom :v:

# ? Feb 28, 2017 14:33

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Darox posted:

Probably because of activated item effects like invisibility.

There should be more of those abilities, there's only rage, invisibility, flight, randarts with blink, and the handful of fixedarts with special evocations. Instead of gloves of archery, gloves of portal projectile. Boots of swiftness. Singing hat of slaying!

I do like this application of evocations better than wands. Wands are fine, but there are so many of them. Finding a nice piece of evocable gear early on can be game-defining.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 15:24

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Fitzy Fitz posted:

I do like this application of evocations better than wands. Wands are fine, but there are so many of them. Finding a nice piece of evocable gear early on can be game-defining.

This sounds really really cool. Finding artifacts and gear with abilities attached to them is some of the most fun parts of the game for me, and adding more variety and abilities to gear would make this even more rewarding.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 15:38

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

Bring back boots of jumping and boots of the spider.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 15:40

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

one issue with adding more activated abilities is overloading the player with options (very traditional crawl problem). remember the old random flame breath/poison spit muts, or the current blink mut? how often do you actually remember to use those?

the other issue is coming up with good and interesting active effects, which, ah, spiderboots weren't

# ? Feb 28, 2017 17:21

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I didn't use the flame/poison spit mutations not because I forgot about them but because they always seemed really weak, so why waste additional keypresses and irl time using them

# ? Feb 28, 2017 17:23

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

IronicDongz posted:

of course that's not serious, how could acquirement having a chance to be bad "prevent people from using acquirement to get good equipment in a way that could be 'cheesy'"

I don't even get what the bit about XP is supposed to mean

The bit about XP in my post or theirs? I was likening it to a potion of XP because they're both crazy powerful consumables that are basically counterbalanced by being rare as hen's teeth.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 17:25

Carcer: Aug 7, 2010

IronicDongz posted:

I didn't use the flame/poison spit mutations not because I forgot about them but because they always seemed really weak, so why waste additional keypresses and irl time using them

This was the larger issue with them. Why roll the dice and maybe poison something a little if I can just smash them in the face with a mace or hot them with a fireball?

# ? Feb 28, 2017 17:41

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

I remember blink all the time. I just am bad at crawl.

On that note, will you tell the Devs to stop making the game harder?

# ? Feb 28, 2017 17:43

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

The bit about XP in my post or theirs? I was likening it to a potion of XP because they're both crazy powerful consumables that are basically counterbalanced by being rare as hen's teeth.

Theirs. But fwiw XP potions are way more rare than acq, you usually get a couple acq scrolls in a 3 rune game but you normally never see XP potions outside of zigs

# ? Feb 28, 2017 17:49

someone awful.: Sep 7, 2007

It's me, I'm the person who uses breath spit thingies et al and was mad they were removed

# ? Feb 28, 2017 18:00

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

IronicDongz posted:

I didn't use the flame/poison spit mutations not because I forgot about them but because they always seemed really weak, so why waste additional keypresses and irl time using them

yeah, they had the additional problem of trying to be in the same order of magnitude of power as other goodmuts (e.g. '+2 str'), so a single level couldn't be very good (and you weren't likely to get multiple levels!)

item egos can at least be a little better than that

# ? Feb 28, 2017 18:09

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

A few splats ago, I found a Xom vault where he booms "WORSHIP ME, MORTAL, AND I SHALL GRANT YOU THE GREATEST GIFT OF ALL."' Tempting, but I was already worshipping a god.

I look up the vault out of curiosity, and...

code:

     dgn.create_monster(pos[1].x, pos[1].y, "generate_awake att:good_neutral goblin")
    crawl.god_speaks("Xom", 'A goblin pops into existence! It looks at you'
                     .. ' with admiration.')
    crawl.god_speaks("Xom", '"Friendship. The greatest gift is friendship!"')

# ? Feb 28, 2017 20:21

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Improved Hopkins have my tentative seal of approval. I started a Barachian Ice Elementalist, and ended up worshipping Cheibriados and wielding a +5 rapier of venom (thanks Eustachio). In addition to the usual early game suspects I trained a bit of stealth.

I ended up dying in Lair when I made the mistake of trying to hop towards a manticore in order to stab it, only to find out that there was a hippogriff nearby. I quaffed invisibility and they made four attacks against me, two of which hit and killed me. There were four or six clear mistakes, and surprisingly I didn't consider choosing to worship Cheibriados to be one of them.

Early hop is inaccurate and somewhat unreliable, but it definitely gives you time to burn a little more magic on Throw Icicle or Throw Frost, depending on how much distance I open up.
Temporal Distortion would have opened up enough distance to effectively use my magic.
Fear would have saved my rear end, I had four scrolls - I just overestimated invisibility while aiming for stabs. Since I was next door, they guessed pretty drat well where I was.
Or TD followed by Slouch, I guess.

I don't know if Hopkin Fighters will still be boring as gently caress, but they have the apts to spread out in a few interesting directions from there. It's an interesting match to IE. Next time, I'll try Summoner with most likely Sif.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 21:21

Darius099: Dec 18, 2005; Ogion went on a halfmile or so, and said at last, 'To hear, one must be silent'.

So I'm really new (though I've played this before in the past I had no idea what I was doing then either) but I love this game! It feels so much more accessible than the other roguelikes I've played in the past.

So I just found a giant room full of mace weapons on level 7, some seem to be glowing/enchanted, one of them was "the +6 shillelagh "Devastator" {shatter}". One of them says it's transparent? I can't seem to find what a transparent weapon is or does. I'm also curious why I found a room full of the same weapon (happening to be the one I use as a Gargoyle Fighter!)

# ? Feb 28, 2017 22:45

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

Darius099 posted:

So I'm really new (though I've played this before in the past I had no idea what I was doing then either) but I love this game! It feels so much more accessible than the other roguelikes I've played in the past.

So I just found a giant room full of mace weapons on level 7, some seem to be glowing/enchanted, one of them was "the +6 shillelagh "Devastator" {shatter}". One of them says it's transparent? I can't seem to find what a transparent weapon is or does. I'm also curious why I found a room full of the same weapon (happening to be the one I use as a Gargoyle Fighter!)

The shillelagh is an unrandart, an un-random-artifact. It's one of a handful of artifacts that sometimes show up. It's very rare to get one that early! It does aoe explosion damage on attack and may be a very, very good weapon for you. (Unless the shatter explosion does a ton of damage to gargoyles, which I'm not sure if it does.)

The room full of maces is leading up to Crazy Yiuf. He loves maces.

"Transparent" is just a random descriptor for artifacts.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 22:48

Darius099: Dec 18, 2005; Ogion went on a halfmile or so, and said at last, 'To hear, one must be silent'.

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

The shillelagh is an unrandart, an un-random-artifact. It's one of a handful of artifacts that sometimes show up. It's very rare to get one that early! It does aoe explosion damage on attack and may be a very, very good weapon for you. (Unless the shatter explosion does a ton of damage to gargoyles, which I'm not sure if it does.)

The room full of maces is leading up to Crazy Yiuf. He loves maces.

"Transparent" is just a random descriptor for artifacts.

Ah! I totally murdered Yiuf. He was tough, but not as tough as the Orc Priest's I've fought, they killed my last 2 characters.

I also found what appears to be a random artefact?

"the +7 mace "Killer Klown's Curse" (weapon) {pain, rF+}

Base acc +3, Base dmg: 8, Base attack delay: 1.4 Minimum attack delay 0.7
In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage on living creatures.
It protects you from fire.

Not sure if that's better. I'm certainly not skilled in necromantic magic, haha.

EDIT: Man, this Shillelagh is insane! It's like literally one shotting everything I swing on.

Darius099 fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Feb 28, 2017

# ? Feb 28, 2017 22:58

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Darius099 posted:

Ah! I totally murdered Yiuf. He was tough, but not as tough as the Orc Priest's I've fought, they killed my last 2 characters.

I also found what appears to be a random artefact?

"the +7 mace "Killer Klown's Curse" (weapon) {pain, rF+}

Base acc +3, Base dmg: 8, Base attack delay: 1.4 Minimum attack delay 0.7
In the hands of one skilled in necromantic magic, it inflicts extra damage on living creatures.
It protects you from fire.

Not sure if that's better. I'm certainly not skilled in necromantic magic, haha.

EDIT: Man, this Shillelagh is insane! It's like literally one shotting everything I swing on.

Don't stop riding the Devastator until you find a great mace and get enough M&F skill or a demon whip/eveningstar, you will never know when you are likely to get another opportunity.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 23:31

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

Pain brand is nutty but only if you actually train necro for it. If you have no plans to do that (and you shouldn't, with the shillelagh) then just use your explodey mace.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 23:41

Mr. Lobe: Feb 23, 2007; ... Dry bones...

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

Pain brand is nutty but only if you actually train necro for it. If you have no plans to do that (and you shouldn't, with the shillelagh) then just use your explodey mace.

Also even with the pain brand and trained necro, maces are pretty lousy and enemies will become increasingly unsusceptible to pain as the game goes on anyways.

# ? Feb 28, 2017 23:48

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Haifisch posted:

A few splats ago, I found a Xom vault where he booms "WORSHIP ME, MORTAL, AND I SHALL GRANT YOU THE GREATEST GIFT OF ALL."' Tempting, but I was already worshipping a god.

I look up the vault out of curiosity, and...
code:
     dgn.create_monster(pos[1].x, pos[1].y, "generate_awake att:good_neutral goblin")
    crawl.god_speaks("Xom", 'A goblin pops into existence! It looks at you'
                     .. ' with admiration.')
    crawl.god_speaks("Xom", '"Friendship. The greatest gift is friendship!"')

That was inspired by discussion in this very thread! It is up there with the sheep explosion altar. :allears:

# ? Feb 28, 2017 23:57

Darius099: Dec 18, 2005; Ogion went on a halfmile or so, and said at last, 'To hear, one must be silent'.

Floodkiller posted:

Don't stop riding the Devastator until you find a great mace and get enough M&F skill or a demon whip/eveningstar, you will never know when you are likely to get another opportunity.

That's my plan! I found a shrine of Hepliaklqana and decided he seemed like a cool dude, so now I have an ancestor following me around all the time. It gets pretty annoying telling the game "Yes, I'm sure I want to attack with my ally this close" all the time, though.

What's a really good M&F skill?

# ? Mar 1, 2017 03:00

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

Darius099 posted:

That's my plan! I found a shrine of Hepliaklqana and decided he seemed like a cool dude, so now I have an ancestor following me around all the time. It gets pretty annoying telling the game "Yes, I'm sure I want to attack with my ally this close" all the time, though.

What's a really good M&F skill?

16 is minimum attack delay for an Eveningstar, the most powerful (though not necessarily best) 1h mace. 14 for the dire flail (most common 2h) and demon whip/sacred scourge (the other best 1h, lower damage but much faster attacking so if branded for damage, very nice), 20 for the great mace (rarer/stronger 2h)

# ? Mar 1, 2017 03:08

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

LordSloth posted:

Improved Hopkins have my tentative seal of approval. I started a Barachian Ice Elementalist, and ended up worshipping Cheibriados and wielding a +5 rapier of venom (thanks Eustachio). In addition to the usual early game suspects I trained a bit of stealth.

Barachian of Chei works pretty well, though I think the new apts opens up more gods for hopkins. They have near-universally strong apts so I was thinking Vehumet to partially offset their increased LOS problems by having increased spell range. They should be able to cast level 9 spells in a 3-rune game while being fairly robust (worst case maybe dip into a Zig to get some potions of experience).

# ? Mar 1, 2017 03:34

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

I got real close today. I was in the lower right part of the lungs and got jumped by some scary fireball monsters all of a sudden.

# ? Mar 1, 2017 04:02

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Crimson Harvest posted:

I got real close today. I was in the lower right part of the lungs and got jumped by some scary fireball monsters all of a sudden.

Orbs of Fire are by far the strongest enemies encountered in a 3 rune game

# ? Mar 1, 2017 04:04

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# ? May 28, 2024 13:11

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

I lasted what felt like a long time against them but I'm not sure I landed a single solid hit on any of 'em. Also I was somewhat surrounded by invisible dudes at the same time so whatever. Next time, I'll do a lot more kiting.

# ? Mar 1, 2017 04:13

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