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Axolotl posted:Or, as I overheard someone arguing, "they only work for 9 months out of the year, so it's like they're really getting paid $50000+ per year." My best friend (when I was still in college) was a teacher who was awarded "Young Educator of The Year" in a fairly prosperous area, but he still had to deliver pizzas while living in a run-down shack of a tiny mother-in-law suite behind someone else's house. The day I abandoned my hopes of being an educator was they day he sadly told me that if, tomorrow, he had to put new tires on his tiny, lovely Mitsubishi pickup truck he couldn't afford to do it. This dude worked his rear end off, and he lasted maybe five-seven years in public education. This was before the Republicans took control of the state, too. Also, when I finally let go of my Southern Baptist indoctrination my Mother blamed it on "those teachers you hang out with," 
Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 16:49
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Keeshhound posted:I meant that whenever the subject comes up, people fall over themselves to posture about how criminal it is that the people we entrust our children to are so horribly underpaid, and then nobody does anything about it. I want to live in your community because ours just massively cut additional programing for schools to save 10 dollars per taxpayer.
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Jul 1, 2015 16:49
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Keeshhound posted:I meant that whenever the subject comes up, people fall over themselves to posture about how criminal it is that the people we entrust our children to are so horribly underpaid, and then nobody does anything about it.
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Jul 1, 2015 16:49
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Dr. Faustus posted:Which is funny because teachers work way more than that when you count all the time they work after hours, use their own money for education supplies, and how their wages are split across 12 months instead of the "9" they "work." Yeah I am lucky enough to be in an educational field that has a strong university career track. I remember being given the choice to focus on public school ESL or EAP and I clung to EAP like the last chopper out of Nam
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Jul 1, 2015 16:51
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Dr. Faustus posted:Which is funny because teachers work way more than that when you count all the time they work after hours, use their own money for education supplies, and how their wages are split across 12 months instead of the "9" they "work." A lot of school districts allow you to elect to either split your pay across 12 months or receive it in only the 9 when school is in session
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Jul 1, 2015 16:56
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Axolotl posted:A lot of the conservatives I know from the high schools I went to were poo poo students who got poor grades and hated teachers. Now I see them on Facebook and most are working blue collar jobs, which don't pay too badly, but they still complain about teachers being overpaid. I figure a lot of it from those types of people is just resentment toward teachers and education and a desire to stick it to them. At this point almost all of the GOP platform revolves around resentment and the desire to stick it to people.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:01
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Good Citizen posted:A lot of school districts allow you to elect to either split your pay across 12 months or receive it in only the 9 when school is in session They're you're childrens' legal guardians from 7:30 to 3:00. En loco parentis, it means you should pay them. Not to mention the education requirements just to get the job. Private schooling will do away with that soon enough.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:03
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Cythereal posted:
2 masters or a PhD would do it in some high-paid districts, I think.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:06
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Nowhere in the goddamn country are teachers being paid 55k to start without some incredibly significant footnotes attached.
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Keeshhound posted:I meant that whenever the subject comes up, people fall over themselves to posture about how criminal it is that the people we entrust our children to are so horribly underpaid, and then nobody does anything about it. It's all sickeningly stupid and it ignores the reality of education. Also, teaching is way more exhausting than anyone expects the first time they do it.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:10
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To be fair, AIDS was viewed very differently in the 80's. Once they realized that it wasn't just for the gays, people got pretty scared.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:14
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:No, that's not true.  And here I thought it was bad when I saw what I described. Christ.I guess I was lucky to live in a place where teachers were just neglected.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:14
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Sir Tonk posted:To be fair, AIDS was viewed very differently in the 80's. Once they realized that it wasn't just for the gays, people got pretty scared. I genuinely think "And the Band Played On" might be the greatest work of journalistic non-fiction for how it framed that whole era
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Jul 1, 2015 17:15
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Smart teachers in America with a teaching certification know to get the gently caress out and teach at an international school in another country. I mean an accredited international school, not the ESL things that anyone is allowed to do. $40-50k USD, housing, medical and airfare with no experience isn't unheard of. Plus lower cost of living most of the time. It's loving stupid that if you want to make decent money teaching in the USA that your best bet is to leave the country.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:35
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Rhesus Pieces posted:At this point almost all of the GOP platform revolves around resentment and the desire to stick it to people. Every once in a while when I'm feeling hopeful about the progress we are making in this country, I go back and read that article "We, the spiteful" by Mark Ames and get depressed again.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:45
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aeglus posted:Smart teachers in America with a teaching certification know to get the gently caress out and teach at an international school in another country. I mean an accredited international school, not the ESL things that anyone is allowed to do. $40-50k USD, housing, medical and airfare with no experience isn't unheard of. Plus lower cost of living most of the time. It's all part of an ingenious plot for school days to be split between PowerPoint presentations and Scantron exams.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:45
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aeglus posted:I mean an accredited international school, not the ESL things that anyone is allowed to do. There is such a thing as accredited international ESL you know 
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Jul 1, 2015 17:46
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Gravel Gravy posted:It's all part of an ingenious plot for school days to be split between PowerPoint presentations and Scantron exams. So they really are preparing kids for college.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:48
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My right wing dad and stepmom have been arguing with me lately about my daughter's college fund, saying I shouldn't call it that because she doesn't need to go to college, education is overrated ( ), and that I'm forcing her to go to college. poo poo is infuriating. And no loving poo poo I'm going to try to get her to go to college, or a trade school at minimum. Trying to explain the stats on lifetime earnings for people with different educations has no impact.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:50
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Facebook’s Gay Pride Rainbow Picture a Psyop CIA-connected network has history of covert experiments conducted on users This is too good for the conspiracy thread. quote:More than a million people elected to allow Facebook to modify their profile pictures in honor of a Supreme Court decision on same-sex marriage.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:50
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:My right wing dad and stepmom have been arguing with me lately about my daughter's college fund, saying I shouldn't call it that because she doesn't need to go to college, education is overrated ( Yeah well if she goes to college she's likely to become a liberal and that would prevent her from entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Sorry that just isn't worthy any price.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:52
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Keeshhound posted:
About 20 years ago you'd be right that everyone says "teaching needs to pay more!" But as wages kept dropping for private sector, public sector (which used to be known for poor wages), actually kept up with things like cost of living. So now you have people who are furious that they've been hosed out of money, but instead of lashing out at the businesses that are making record profits while slashing employee benefits and wages they've been fed the line that the government is at fault. That teacher isn't working 16 hours a day just to pay rent like I am? Sometimes they get to take a vacation or sick day? They buy a used car every 6 years? Well aren't they high on the hog?!
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Jul 1, 2015 17:55
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah well if she goes to college she's likely to become a liberal and that would prevent her from entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Sorry that just isn't worthy any price. Trade schools are notoriously hostile to women though so I would push for college.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:56
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computer parts posted:So they really are preparing kids for college. The 101 courses anyway
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Jul 1, 2015 17:59
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Under pay teachers, over pay consultants. Balance.
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Jul 1, 2015 17:59
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Hey let's just give more money to the rich because you see when a rich guy buys a yacht it creates jobs.
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Jul 1, 2015 18:00
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I'm a product of the NJ public school system from a poorer district, if that helps any of you understand why people think some NJ tenured union teachers are undeservingly overpaid for their often questionable contributions to society. My highschool has been paying out tens of thousands a week in a no bid contract for essential renovations to a construction crew that hasn't actually done any work for years too. Because of "union negotiations." NJ unions are why everyone hates unions nowadays. Nepotism, corruption, no accountability. Teacher's union is one of the worst too. It's why NJ elected a blowhard Republican prosecutor as governor promising to take them on in the first place you know. Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 18:19
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Smoothrich posted:I'm a product of the NJ public school system from a poorer district, if that helps any of you understand why people think some NJ tenured union teachers are undeservingly overpaid for their often questionable contributions to society. Sorry, are you citing your own terrible posting and crazy ideas about poo poo as a reason why teachers are bad? You're calling yourself a questionable contribution to society?
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Jul 1, 2015 18:28
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Obdicut posted:Sorry, are you citing your own terrible posting and crazy ideas about poo poo as a reason why teachers are bad? You're calling yourself a questionable contribution to society? If I were Rumplestiltskin, I could spin all the liberals you're arguing against into gold, then use that gold to pay you to shut up. (Because they are made of straw, you see.) User loses posting privileges for 3 days Why are you so dense? Stop replying to Smoothrich.
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Jul 1, 2015 18:35
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Obdicut posted:Sorry, are you citing your own terrible posting and crazy ideas about poo poo as a reason why teachers are bad? You're calling yourself a questionable contribution to society? If I were Rumplestiltskin, I could spin all the liberals you're arguing against into gold, then use that gold to pay you to shut up. (Because they are made of straw, you see.) User loses posting privileges for 3 days Why are you so dense? Stop replying to Smoothrich.
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Jul 1, 2015 18:36
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Worth saying twice, IMO.
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Jul 1, 2015 18:38
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New Jersey is sort of a great example of the Union not being the problem, since the union-involved nepotism and corruption involving New Jersey unions doesn't seem any worse than the nepotism and corruption of the parts without unions. My home state has it's own problems with unions, but again those aren't down to the inherent problematic nature of unions and more down to the fact that the unions and local government are both as fronts for the same criminal organization.
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Jul 1, 2015 18:45
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Obdicut posted:Sorry, are you citing your own terrible posting and crazy ideas about poo poo as a reason why teachers are bad? You're calling yourself a questionable contribution to society? It's a convincing argument I'll give him that.
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Jul 1, 2015 18:49
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GlyphGryph posted:the unions and local government are both as fronts for the same criminal organization. The Democratic Party?
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Jul 1, 2015 19:23
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Smoothrich posted:The Democratic Party? The Italians, actually.
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Jul 1, 2015 19:25
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Need a quarantine to the lolbertarian thread, stat!
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Jul 1, 2015 19:34
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Mel Mudkiper posted:There is such a thing as accredited international ESL you know And you generally need at least a degree＋CELTA, minimum, to do it.
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Jul 1, 2015 19:40
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It's also important to note with that teacher's salary that New Jersey has the fourth highest state-wide cost of living behind Alaska, New York, and Hawaii.
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Jul 1, 2015 19:46
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NJ teacher here. The sole issue of Republican ire towards NJ teachers is the NJEA which is one of the most powerful unions in the country. That's literally it.
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Jul 1, 2015 20:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltcOrH0wLBw I listened to that on my way to work yesterday. Thom was carefully explaining to the guy on the phone we're not in a debt crisis, and this dude's best rebuttals are "bubububu my kids and grandkids!" and "bububu borrowing money from China!". Seriously, it never got anymore sophisticated than that.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:15
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Due to the debt ceiling shitshow a while back the word "Greece" has become a trigger word on the right that activates fantasies of our inevitable societal collapse should we keep giving money away to the poors. Never mind the fact that we print our own currency and could only default if we did so purposefully (which crazy and economically illiterate tea partiers actually tried to do).
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Jul 1, 2015 21:36
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