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Nov 30, 2017 21:33
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Can't wait for sixth edition in a couple years, with even more regressive design.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:46
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20 years? He has been with the company since before they released 3.0? Possibly before they even acquired the license and started working on it? Also if Perkins has been around that long why is it that Mearls is the lead? Also I still can't see how this could have been their most successful year. Since 5e came out they have released almost nothing. And if you include only stuff designed in house instead of in a partnership it is even less. Though I guess the rise in streaming games and things like Critical Role gets people to come and buy the game, even if most of those are filled tons of houserules and may barely be recognizable as 5e.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:48
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Can't wait for sixth edition in a couple years, with even more regressive design. To regress any further you'd be looking at drawing inspiration from Basic/RC, which might be unironically good.
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Nov 30, 2017 21:52
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Ryuujin posted:20 years? He has been with the company since before they released 3.0? Possibly before they even acquired the license and started working on it? WotC started doing Dungeon Magazine back in '97, and Perkins was its editor.
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Nov 30, 2017 22:14
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Ryuujin posted:20 years? He has been with the company since before they released 3.0? Possibly before they even acquired the license and started working on it? Also if Perkins has been around that long why is it that Mearls is the lead? It's almost like there's more than one way for a business to measure success. I'm not saying 5e isn't sometimes a shitshow but there are a lot of ways they could legitimately call it a success. *Total hardcover sales. Or total sales of the PHB, specifically. *Total profit margin, e.g., money spent vs. money earned. Doubly so if they're looking at it as a percentage as opposed to raw net sales. *Estimated number of users. Harder to tell with D&D vs. digital products but possible. *Number of staff vs. total completed projects. D&D 5e has released almost nothing but with the three dudes they have locked in a broom closet, what they have released might be an astronomical amount. I ain't saying I'm not skeptical but you gotta realize 'success' is a totally subjective thing particularly in business, unless you're actively failing, which is much less vague.
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Nov 30, 2017 22:24
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5E is a pretty unqualified success. It's incredibly popular, spurred on in no small part by events like PAX and the rise of streaming (Critical Role). It's a perfect storm that has led to more new players than ever, who value 5E in no small part because it's incredibly easy to get new people into. It's also a bland and sloppy system but it's a very successful one.
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Nov 30, 2017 22:42
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Captain Oblivious posted:more new players than ever More new players than the 1983 Red Box?
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Nov 30, 2017 22:52
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Also stranger things
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Nov 30, 2017 22:55
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To be clear I wasn't claiming to know those numbers, but rather that there are any number of ways to look at numbers in such a way that you can call a venture a success.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:00
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Ryuujin posted:20 years? He has been with the company since before they released 3.0? Possibly before they even acquired the license and started working on it? Also if Perkins has been around that long why is it that Mearls is the lead? The PHB still sells really well.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:19
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How many copies did it sell last quarter?
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Nov 30, 2017 23:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:The PHB still sells really well. According to Amazon Best Sellers Rank the PHB is #96 in all books sold right now. That's insanely more popular than D&D has ever been before. e: that's almost 10k sold a month according to this calculator
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Nov 30, 2017 23:24
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Huh, that's really cool.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:26
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Kaysette posted:According to Amazon Best Sellers Rank the PHB is #96 in all books sold right now. I can tell you anecdotally as an ASM of a popular book store that it also sells very well at brick and mortar, at least in my demographic.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:33
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Yeah as "big" as 3e was, 5e is reaching a scale of audience 3e didn't touch. I think two years after 5e launched it passed 3.5 in lifetime sales.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:35
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So I'm getting started on creating my first DnD character (5th edition) and because I am extremely creative I was planning on making a human battlemaster, or some other fighter subclass. I'll have to take a closer look at the PHB/Sword Coast and Xanathar's to settle on exactly which sublcass, but I was curious on everyone's thoughts regarding standard and variant human. +1 to all stats seems pretty strong, but I also imagine cool stuff could be done with the variant human, I just don't really know enough about the game or classes to minmax that well if it's possible. Thoughts?
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Nov 30, 2017 23:36
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This thread will tell you that fighters are a mistake and the only way to play martial class is some highly specific paladin with a quarterstaff build. I, however, would say just pick Battlemaster because it's the only one that does something more interesting than "hit them with my sword."
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Nov 30, 2017 23:43
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Meridian posted:So I'm getting started on creating my first DnD character (5th edition) and because I am extremely creative I was planning on making a human battlemaster, or some other fighter subclass. I'll have to take a closer look at the PHB/Sword Coast and Xanathar's to settle on exactly which sublcass, but I was curious on everyone's thoughts regarding standard and variant human.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:50
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15 physical stats / 8 mental stats bear barb with a shield is super boring but just workhorses through most encounters, I found.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:56
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Meridian posted:So I'm getting started on creating my first DnD character (5th edition) and because I am extremely creative I was planning on making a human battlemaster, or some other fighter subclass. I'll have to take a closer look at the PHB/Sword Coast and Xanathar's to settle on exactly which sublcass, but I was curious on everyone's thoughts regarding standard and variant human. Variant Human is very good, you can never really go wrong with that. I wouldn't recommend playing a fighter, they're pretty boring and struggle outside of fights. I'd look into Paladin, the fixed ranger, totem barb or even a Tempest or Battle cleric. With those you kick rear end in melee basically as much but get a lot more breadth.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:57
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Meridian posted:So I'm getting started on creating my first DnD character (5th edition) and because I am extremely creative I was planning on making a human battlemaster, or some other fighter subclass. I'll have to take a closer look at the PHB/Sword Coast and Xanathar's to settle on exactly which sublcass, but I was curious on everyone's thoughts regarding standard and variant human. If your goal is to min/max the fighter specifically, you're on the right track. If min/maxing in general is your goal, there are better melee combatants than any fighter so you might end up being disappointed. Variant human is really good for nearly every class. For fighters, the bonus feat alone is almost certainly better than +1 to all ability scores. Look at sentinel, polearm master, shield master, and great weapon master for starters, I'm sure you'll get the idea. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 23:58
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Battlemaster is fun and versatile with solid damage output, you just get no narrative shaping or even incidental out of combat powers. +1 to all stats is a trap. Feets can be incredibly powerful and having a potential boost in incidental abilities you're not building around is a terrible investment. If you want a charismatic Fighter, you want to train Performance and Persuasion, not sacrifice a feat to bump your charisma bonus.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:05
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Battlemaster is none the less a fairly solid choice. Take Varient Human and a feat that helps your chosen weapons.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:06
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I've noticed that the thread seems to get down on martial classes in general. I wanted to go with fighter originally because I think it allows for more freedom in creating a back story and RPing the character. Paladins/Clerics never really appealed to me because one's sort of locked in on the whole worship thing. Though, Oath of Vengeance could side step that issue I guess. I don't know. I just wanted to avoid playing the stereotypical holy knight type character.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:10
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Meridian posted:I've noticed that the thread seems to get down on martial classes in general. I wanted to go with fighter originally because I think it allows for more freedom in creating a back story and RPing the character. Paladins/Clerics never really appealed to me because one's sort of locked in on the whole worship thing. Though, Oath of Vengeance could side step that issue I guess. Paladin is one of the only martials that they did a good job designing and it's still fairly open-ended. Play what you want, nothing will make it not 5E and you will probably pick up on why a lot of people in this thread dislike martials while being able to decide if you are OK with that on your own.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:14
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Captain Oblivious posted:5E is a pretty unqualified success. It's incredibly popular, spurred on in no small part by events like PAX and the rise of streaming (Critical Role). It's a perfect storm that has led to more new players than ever, who value 5E in no small part because it's incredibly easy to get new people into. Ill also remain skeptical because the fact that DDI is never mentioned in sales figures was always telling. I imagine if Beyond was doing well they would be posting direct comparisons to shut the 4venger crowd up. Ive also alwaus been curious about if there was a bump in second PHB sales since so many of the first run straight up disintigrated.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:14
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dont even fink about it posted:Paladin is one of the only martials that they did a good job designing and it's still fairly open-ended. My issue right now is actually having a group to play with, probably end up having to find one online honestly. Are there any goons running games or is this the wrong place to ask?
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Dec 1, 2017 00:15
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Meridian posted:I don't know. I just wanted to avoid playing the stereotypical holy knight type character. Couple of pages back, but you really don't even have to be a god-botherer to successfully Paladin, let alone a beacon of pseduo-chivalrous feudal pseudo-christianity in shining armor. Soylent Pudding posted:I had a friend who's paladin was 250% focused on fighting eldritch incursions from the far planes. When not fighting illithids she was focused on making sure everyone was prepared to fight the next invasion. Gotta house the orphans so you can raise more soldiers. Gotta fix malnutrition in this other village so they'll be in fighting shape, gotta make sure this other lord funds the hospital so we'll have doctors to treat the wounded during the next scouring, etc. It ended up making a far more interesting character than I think any of us expected to see. AlphaDog posted:I play my paladin similarly. When he's not actively smiting tyrannical evil with his pole hammer (reskinned halberd), he's doing everything he can to help people organise to fight it themselves. kingcom posted:7 Samurai/Magnificent 7 are ideal character archetypes for playing a Paladin imo. A paladin doesn't need to be a flawed or perfect being or whatever that 100% follows a strict ideology. Its a person trying their best to stick to a code and making a difference using it.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:17
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I think Paladin and Cleric both work with a broader range of characterization than the stereotypes, but that aside you may have some more flavorful options than Battlemaster for tabularasa martials. What kind of personality were you thinking of?
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Dec 1, 2017 00:20
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mango sentinel posted:I think Paladin and Cleric both work with a broader range of characterization than the stereotypes, but that aside you may have some more flavorful options than Battlemaster for tabularasa martials. What kind of personality were you thinking of? Morally ambiguous, motivated primarily by personal gain, at least at first. Was thinking maybe a disgraced noble who was exiled and is now jaded as hell.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:26
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Meridian posted:My issue right now is actually having a group to play with, probably end up having to find one online honestly. Are there any goons running games or is this the wrong place to ask? There is a Roll20 game that looks like it will be starting tomorrow, linked in the Recruitment Megathread. I am still kind of running my game that is intended to go 20 levels, though it has slowed down a lot in player response so no idea how much longer it will keep going. I know I get down on 5e sometimes, there was a lot of promise that was squandered and a lot of backslide on design. But I still wish there were more games recruiting. Especially since I have not managed to go to AL for a few months.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:29
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Meridian posted:Morally ambiguous, motivated primarily by personal gain, at least at first. Was thinking maybe a disgraced noble who was exiled and is now jaded as hell. I played an oathbreaker paladin of objectivism during an evil campaign and it was tons of fun. Her iconic phrase was "would you kindly...?"
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Dec 1, 2017 00:32
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Meridian posted:Morally ambiguous, motivated primarily by personal gain, at least at first. Was thinking maybe a disgraced noble who was exiled and is now jaded as hell. "Jaded, morally ambiguous ex-noble out for wealth (and fame?)" says "swashbuckler" to me.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:34
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Soylent Pudding posted:I played an oathbreaker paladin of objectivism during an evil campaign and it was tons of fun. Her iconic phrase was "would you kindly...?" Yeah now that you mention it a Paladin of some variety could actually work really well with that type of personality. I gotta dig through the books and see what I can come up with.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:34
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Meridian posted:I've noticed that the thread seems to get down on martial classes in general. I wanted to go with fighter originally because I think it allows for more freedom in creating a back story and RPing the character. Paladins/Clerics never really appealed to me because one's sort of locked in on the whole worship thing. Though, Oath of Vengeance could side step that issue I guess. Oath of Ancients + Find Steed: https://youtu.be/v5Lmkm5EF5E Oath of Devotion Paladin talking about a demon: https://youtu.be/1LSewbS5eQI
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Dec 1, 2017 00:35
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AlphaDog posted:"Jaded, morally ambiguous ex-noble out for wealth (and fame?)" says "swashbuckler" to me. Sounds Swashbuckler to me too. Raised as a noble, trained in proper dueling style. Charisma as a secondary stat synergyzing with Expertise and broad rogue skills representing the charm and knowledge to navigate court intrigue until one day you ended up on the wrong end of it. Jaded, maybe a little grizzled, but still unable to conceal the pride or cockiness of knowing you're from a better class of person.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:45
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NeurosisHead posted:There's nothing wrong with making a character designed around the mechanics, and that's not the nature of my complaint. My complaint is that the idea of a "character" doesn't involve even a cursory thought about personality or motivation. It's just, dice, and nothing else. Meridian's concerns about class choice putting too much of a straightjacket on their character's possible backstory is a good example of why people engage with "the build" of a character more often their their backstory. You can have as fleshed-out of a background as you want, but unless you "reskin" a class (which itself needs to be "approved" by the DM), you're locked into only certain classes which can conceivably match that background, and some classes are mechanically better than others, and in a game where mechanical interaction with the game-world counts for a lot, some people end up putting the mechanics first, because having an "interesting" character in theory can end up feeling unsatisfying if you don't have the attacks/skill-checks/abilities to match. "Back in the day", a Fighter was a Fighter was a Fighter, so it was much easier to project a Samurai versus a Landsknecht versus a Jaguar Warrior, since everything dealt 1d6 damage regardless. Another factor in this discussion is the relative lack of character customization outside of multi-classing: there's only so much mix-and-matching you can do while staying in a single class's lane, so people look at multi-classing as just another way of building a whole character, which then further creates this perception that a character is a disjointed mishmash of cherry-picked abilities. It's not as simple as OD&D's character design where you can simply declare yourself Oda Nobunaga and call it good, and because it's also not as mechanically expressive as 4th Edition's power-selection where any two Fighters can have fairly different power sets, you end up in this limbo where you feel like you have to be multi-classed (or at least need feats) in order to really be able to get combinations of abilities that synergize with each other, but it forces your narrative background to contort. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Dec 1, 2017 00:47
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gradenko_2000 posted:Meridian's concerns about class choice putting too much of a straightjacket on their character's possible backstory is a good example of why people engage with "the build" of a character more often their their backstory. Yeah, you pretty much summed up my concerns exactly. This is a good post.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:53
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Razorwired posted:Ill also remain skeptical because the fact that DDI is never mentioned in sales figures was always telling. I imagine if Beyond was doing well they would be posting direct comparisons to shut the 4venger crowd up.  Be that as it may, the book sales versus 3E alone make it extremely likely that if it hasn't already, it definitely will outsell 4E and I say that as someone who loves 4E to death.Fact of the matter is that whether something is popular or really takes off doesn't have all that much to do with quality of game mechanics per se. 5E is a perfect storm of marketing, timing, and ease of use. I know we don't want them to be rewarded for making a sloppy system that revels in mediocrity, but they both are and will continue to be so.
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Dec 1, 2017 01:01
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