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Freudian posted:Allegedly that's how Constantinople eventually fell, a single door left open. Gosh the Turks must have felt silly trying all those sieges and cannons and whatnot.
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Oct 31, 2022 23:59
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I have wanted some ere themed swag for a while but yeah it was all a bit too fashy for me. I eventually got a pro wrestling shirt that scratched the itch
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Nov 1, 2022 00:13
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I don't wanna just fall over and let people gently caress up the very act of liking ancient history. If you can be a decent person other I don't think has to be a harmful thing to be visibly into it.
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Nov 1, 2022 00:31
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Koramei posted:I don't wanna just fall over and let people gently caress up the very act of liking ancient history. If you can be a decent person other I don't think has to be a harmful thing to be visibly into it. I think the difference is pretty obvious -- the fashy types are the ones glorifying ancient history. "Oh yeah ancient Rome was the best I would totally have been a Patrician." Folks who are just into ancient history (e.g. most of this thread) are a lot more "yeah, that happened", and "yep, that sucked for about 95% of everyone".
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Nov 1, 2022 00:55
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The fash are revolutionary romantics they look to restore broken myths of origin from the past with violence. So they aren’t into history, they hold a history as a romantic ideal they want to bring back violently.
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Nov 1, 2022 01:27
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i think the byzantines are pretty cool but i would prefer if i never experience a civil war fought over a religious debate that only makes sense in greek
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Nov 1, 2022 01:36
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CommonShore posted:I have wanted some ere themed swag for a while but yeah it was all a bit too fashy for me. I eventually got a pro wrestling shirt that scratched the itch what
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Nov 1, 2022 05:26
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cheetah7071 posted:i think the byzantines are pretty cool but i would prefer if i never experience a civil war fought over a religious debate that only makes sense in greek Just what I’d expect from a fukkin iconoclast.
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Nov 1, 2022 05:41
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This is most of what I know about Byzantine history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45TzDuF5mj8
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Nov 1, 2022 07:17
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actual byzantine history is much more ridiculous
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Nov 1, 2022 07:21
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Speaking of which, has anybody figured out exactly why Procopius got so pissed off at Belisarius and Justinian? I'm mostly thinking of the weird tonal shift partway through the History of the Wars; something presumably broke his brain to the point where he wrote the Secret Histories.
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Nov 1, 2022 08:07
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Tobermory posted:Speaking of which, has anybody figured out exactly why Procopius got so pissed off at Belisarius and Justinian? I'm mostly thinking of the weird tonal shift partway through the History of the Wars; something presumably broke his brain to the point where he wrote the Secret Histories. Probably either because the emperor was listening to a *gasp* woman or that he got fired at one point (probably for being rude to a woman).maybe the Vatican knows the answer but other than that it's all just guessing.
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Nov 1, 2022 08:39
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p sure that "ere" is supposed to be "era," as in they were thinking about making some period costume outside of a modern era like Regency or something but got squicked out by how fascists have made nearly all costumes (esp martial costumes) into nazi poo poo which i'm sticking to my guns that fascists don't care about the actual content or practice of history (same for fiction for that matter), just about how they can crassly and crudely use it. If a group of arsonists is in the habit of starting fires with paper, it says very little about the content of any particular book series or whatever.
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Nov 1, 2022 08:41
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ere = eastern Roman empire surely here
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Nov 1, 2022 08:45
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yeah the weird part here is an itch which is scratched by both the byzantines and pro wrestling
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Nov 1, 2022 08:46
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Constantinople was captured in 1453 because the defenders accidentally left a gate open and the Turks walked right in. I'm fairly certain this story is false, it was certainly not in anything I've read about the siege. Do you have a source for this?
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Nov 1, 2022 09:38
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Libluini posted:I'm fairly certain this story is false, it was certainly not in anything I've read about the siege. Even if it were true, that's the sort of 'accident' where someone gets paid for it (and wasn't an unusual way of breaking a siege historically).
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Nov 1, 2022 10:43
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Tobermory posted:Speaking of which, has anybody figured out exactly why Procopius got so pissed off at Belisarius and Justinian? I'm mostly thinking of the weird tonal shift partway through the History of the Wars; something presumably broke his brain to the point where he wrote the Secret Histories. Probably he became disillusioned with the fact that everything went to poo poo after Belisarius left Italy. But it’s kind of hard to be sure. Averil Cameron has a book about Procopius which is pretty good and spends a while on this question. She thinks that he would have preferred for Belisarius to in fact establish himself as western emperor when the Goths offered him the chance, which certainly would have been a positive career move for Procopius—maybe not such a great idea, but the kind of thing you might increasingly look back on and regret as your boss falls from grace and your own prospects diminish. There’s more to it than that though, class anxiety and growing ambivalence about Justinian trying to express itself in a society without freedom of expression, and so on. the book’s worth a read.
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Nov 1, 2022 12:14
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Tulip posted:p sure that "ere" is supposed to be "era," as in they were thinking about making some period costume outside of a modern era like Regency or something but got squicked out by how fascists have made nearly all costumes (esp martial costumes) into nazi poo poo
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Nov 1, 2022 12:58
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CommonShore posted:I have wanted some ere themed swag for a while but yeah it was all a bit too fashy for me. I eventually got a pro wrestling shirt that scratched the itch I was in Turkey recently, and it turns out Konya still uses a double-headed eagle as their city emblem. I was really tempted to get a T-shirt I saw for sale there with the city logo on it, but realized there'd be no way I'd ever feel comfortable wearing it in public.
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Nov 1, 2022 13:14
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 Not totally Byzantine, but as I said, it scratches the itch.
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Nov 1, 2022 14:34
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MikeCrotch posted:ere = eastern Roman empire surely here lol RIP me i totally thought it was a typo
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Nov 1, 2022 16:24
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What's the first instance of a story featuring a haunted suit of armor?
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Nov 1, 2022 17:22
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scooby doo
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Nov 1, 2022 17:26
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Baron Porkface posted:What's the first instance of a story featuring a haunted suit of armor? Maybe Castle of Otranto? More of a haunted helmet I guess
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Nov 1, 2022 17:27
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feedmegin posted:Even if it were true, that's the sort of 'accident' where someone gets paid for it (and wasn't an unusual way of breaking a siege historically). Considering the Theodosian walls consisted of a low wall above a flooded moat, followed by a wide terrace and then a tall defensive wall, followed by another terrace and then an even taller defensive wall, it'd be quite a trick for a single open gate to let attackers into the city. Not to mention that these walls and gates were multiple stories tall, so it's not exactly plausible a single shepherd could 'forget' he left one open when he took his flock out to graze or something. There were hidden gates for defenders to ride out and attack the besieging army, but those were tiny and hence very easy to defend.
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Nov 1, 2022 20:32
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Fuschia tude posted:Considering the Theodosian walls consisted of a low wall above a flooded moat, followed by a wide terrace and then a tall defensive wall, followed by another terrace and then an even taller defensive wall, it'd be quite a trick for a single open gate to let attackers into the city. Not to mention that these walls and gates were multiple stories tall, so it's not exactly plausible a single shepherd could 'forget' he left one open when he took his flock out to graze or something. Apparently it just was the trigger for the final collapse. Wikipedia posted:Constantine's men eventually could not prevent the Ottomans from entering the city and the defenders were overwhelmed at several points along the wall. When Turkish flags were seen flying above the Kerkoporta, a small postern gate that was left open, panic ensued and the defence collapsed.
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Nov 1, 2022 21:01
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I don't know how good the evidence is, but leaving a side door open, either by accident or bribe, was one of the most common ways fortifications fell to attack so it's not all that suspicious.
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Nov 1, 2022 21:30
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Is there a visual indicator that identifies someone as a prostitute in Roman frescos during the late republican or early imperial period? Other than being naked and doing sex stuff ofc.
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Nov 1, 2022 21:34
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I thought Constantinople falling also had a lot to do with cannons having been invented?
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Nov 1, 2022 21:35
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I thought Constantinople falling also had a lot to do with cannons having been invented? Not really. The cannons of the era were not that effective, by all accounts they were able to damage the walls quite a bit, but they were so inaccurate and slow firing that the Romans had plenty of time to repair the damage and shore up the walls. Cannon bombardment went on for weeks without breaching the city. There's dispute about it since there's always dispute, it seems fairly well accepted the cannons didn't do much though.
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Nov 1, 2022 21:44
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THE DOOR IS AJAR THE DOOR IS AJAR THE DOOR IS AJAR Tim Taylor: Hrrnh? Let me just... unplug this alarm... THE DOOR IS AJ--
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Nov 1, 2022 22:51
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The fall of Constantinople was inarguably the work of years, and arguably the work of centuries. I don't think any single explanation for it works other than "the relative power of the Ottomans and the Byzantines." The siege itself involved cannons, but also it involved mines, and building fortresses blocking naval access across the Bosphorous, and a naval blockade, on top of existing conventional siege tactics. They'd have been stupid not to use any unlocked doors they could find since that's like, absolutely one of the best assault tools in the vocabulary, so that some portion of the walls fell that way is not really a particularly difficult to believe thing.Grand Fromage posted:Not really. The cannons of the era were not that effective, by all accounts they were able to damage the walls quite a bit, but they were so inaccurate and slow firing that the Romans had plenty of time to repair the damage and shore up the walls. Cannon bombardment went on for weeks without breaching the city. There's dispute about it since there's always dispute, it seems fairly well accepted the cannons didn't do much though. I think that probably has more to do with the Theodosian Walls being exceptionally complex and well built than anything else - within 40 years the French army has a modern artillery siege train just flattening Italian castles to the west, and to the east there's been gunpowder siege weapons since the Song and the decisive battles of the Ming were fought with cannon. Constantinople was really uniquely tough for a fortification that far west.
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Nov 1, 2022 23:46
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Constantinople also fell about 250 years earlier to an even more improbable chain of events, but it didn't really take that time. It was just another step in the long decay.
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Nov 2, 2022 01:52
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cheetah7071 posted:yeah the weird part here is an itch which is scratched by both the byzantines and pro wrestling A lot more than you might think.
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Nov 2, 2022 06:04
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cheetah7071 posted:yeah the weird part here is an itch which is scratched by both the byzantines and pro wrestling 
Groda fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Nov 2, 2022 |
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Nov 2, 2022 07:45
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ughhhh posted:Is there a visual indicator that identifies someone as a prostitute in Roman frescos during the late republican or early imperial period? Other than being naked and doing sex stuff ofc. I don't know if it's portrayed in roman frescos, but female prostitutes were required to wear togas. Alhazred fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Nov 2, 2022 |
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Nov 2, 2022 18:32
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Right: pisciculi, gonna need an explanation of that one.
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Nov 2, 2022 23:17
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Mr Havafap posted:Right: pisciculi, gonna need an explanation of that one. "Little fishes" - the only thing that I can think of is the  small children in Tiberius' swimming pool, but that doesn't really fit.
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Nov 3, 2022 10:15
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no horny
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Nov 3, 2022 23:12
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