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I wish polls would start representing people who intend to vote null/other, because I think the voice of "You're all idiots and none of you have my trust" is important as well.
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Aug 5, 2018 17:26
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MiddleOne posted:You and I have very different interpretations of the last decade of EU-wide, and hell Swedish, politics if you honestly think triangulation is still a good tactic for democratic parties. Also, Heinö works for a libertarian think tank. That's not centrist, that's hard right-wing. He's just C right-wing instead of SD right-wing. Triangulation is ok as long as it doesn’t become the whole point of your politics, something most parties are guilty off. At its core, triangulation is about appealing to new voter groups. The issues with triangulation is how to do this without losing your core voters, as well as not realizing that some voters you will never reach. There is no problem shedding part of your base if you can access a larger base (like SD did, which led to the creation of AfS). As for Timbro, calling it libertarian makes you guilty of the same thing as I was accused of clumping together the whole left in one issue. MiddleOne posted:I see it like this. Parties can either spend all day trying to follow and min-max opinion trends (Representatives: S, M, KD, MP, L, FI, MED, Afs and almost all local parties ever), or they can create those trends (V, C, SD and NMR). Chasing is solid from a game-theory perspective but it doesn't work when you play a new round every four years because at some point everyone is going to start thinking you're full of poo poo. Plus, you continually erode your own base in order to get those swing voters which is a really bad trade in our system. I can easily concede that you have a point in this. Ideological consistency obviously matters to a certain extent. But it is only going to take you to a certain point, after which you have to hope for external events that swing voters in your favor (like 2015 for SD or 2018 for V). There are a lot of parties that have managed to do one issue questions successfully and yet fail to evolve further (see PP, Junipartiet and Fi). Or your party for that matter, who for some inexplicable reason no longer calls itself a communist party and could be accused of having lost its ideological consistency. V rise in the polls the last months have more to do with the collapse of S than Vs politics. The whole no profits in welfare that V have done the last 4 years have not really amounted to any changes in polls. Their stand on immigration politics have on the other hand been consistent, while S flip flop and promptly lost voters to V and SD. At the moment I would say V is the current pop party for swing voting liberal left wingers, since both MP and Fi disqualified themselves this election period.
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Aug 5, 2018 17:35
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Cardiac posted:Triangulation is ok as long as it doesn’t become the whole point of your politics, something most parties are guilty off. At its core, triangulation is about appealing to new voter groups.
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Aug 5, 2018 18:39
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Cardiac posted:As for Timbro, calling it libertarian makes you guilty of the same thing as I was accused of clumping together the whole left in one issue. Not really? Their ideological compass is squarely in the camp of political academics such as Robert Nozick. They want decreased regulation, decreased state involvement in individual decision making, a focus on individual rights (read: Property rights) over equality and so the song goes on. I don't know what to call that but libertarianism, because that is what that political school of thought is called. I'd even go as far as saying that calling them neoliberals would be disingenuous because Timbro is way further out on that spectrum. They don't care about the economic argument, for them it's strictly a philosophical matter. A Buttery Pastry posted:The issue with triangulation is how to do it without compromising your principles. The moment you do that, you've already lost, no matter if your party surges forward in the polls or not. You can't because triangulation is literally just adopting the positions of your political opponent to muddy the water between him and you. It's not an ideological move, it's a tactical one that requires abandoning principles and embracing inconsistency and revisionism.
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Aug 5, 2018 19:02
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I mean lets take clear-cut recent examples of parties embracing principles over triangulation, despite it arguably being bad politics. C: Immigration. No one expected them to pick up this torch because the rest of the Alliance are neoliberals as a political strategy, but today's C are actual libertarians. Libertarians want borders to be open because they abhor the concept of nations deciding over individuals through borders at all. Shockingly a lot of people voting for M actually cared about this principle and jumped. SD: Abortion. Despite it ruining their chances with huge swaths of the political electorate (for almost no gains as of yet) SD will not let this part of their fascist and nationalist roots go. Controlling wombs is a cornerstone of a lot of these ideologies (can't build an ethno-state without births) and so this remains. Stupid, but coherent. V: Anti-EU. Despite a majority of V's current voters being against any kind of leaving the EU, V's members stick with this (might change at the next congress). They do so because the EU's focus on neoliberalism is incompatible with the big redistributing state that V envisions. And here are some recent examples of the opposite. S: Immigration. Abandoned its ideological stance to chase SD voters and engaged in straight up revisionism to justify it. Didn't work. M: Immigration. Abandoned its past triangulation in favor of a new one. Didn't work. KD: Immigration. Abandoned its christian egalitarianism in favor of more traditional and nationalist conservatism. Didn't work. In all of those three cases, the base responded exceedingly poorly to the party haphazardly abandoning stated principles. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 19:20
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MiddleOne posted:You can't because triangulation is literally just adopting the positions of your political opponent to muddy the water between him and you. It's not an ideological move, it's a tactical one that requires abandoning principles and embracing inconsistency and revisionism.
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Aug 5, 2018 19:34
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There are but those are the issues that unsurprisingly don't tend to really move voters. For example, L shouting about the Euro again (around 20% of Swedes would vote yes to the Euro while only 5% like L) was an attempt at accomplishing exactly that and yet the net result has been no effect.
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Aug 5, 2018 19:37
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Some French-Algerian dude is going to pay all the fines for niqabis as he has done elsewhere, so now they want to help the poor oppressed women by throwing them in literal jail rather than their alleged fabric-based one. Can you get psychosis from cognitive dissonance? https://politiken.dk/indland/art6652484/Betaling-af-burkab%C3%B8der-f%C3%A5r-f%C3%A6ngselsdebat-til-at-blusse-op
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Aug 7, 2018 14:30
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Well the point of the policy was virtually house arrest so might as well go full hog now that someone found a work-around.  https://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/lars-weiss-populismen-ar-ett-resultat-av-politikernas-ovilja-att-kompromissa/ quote:På Netflix avslutades nyligen den andra säsongen av en serie som heter ”Designated survivor”, en i övrigt underhållande men inte särskilt unik konspirationshistoria som börjar med att president, Vita huset-stab, regering, kongress och Högsta domstol slås ut i en terrorattack under presidentens State of the union-tal. Och den ”utsedde överlevaren”, en förhållandevis betydelselös fackminister (Kiefer Sutherland) som alltså inte tillåts delta vid presidentens tal, får bli (tvingas bli) president. You know political analysis is a post-satire artform when someone starts unironically using garbage show Designated Survivor as an example. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 17:53
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Yeah, an apolitical outsider is definitely the most ideal president, so long as his beliefs just happen to align entirely with my own. If only there was some way to know how that'd work in real life. I'm assuming the show is about an Enlightened Centrist who turns out to be more moral and compassionate than either party while simultaneously straddling the rickety middle road between corporatists and crypto-fascists? SplitSoul posted:Some French-Algerian dude is going to pay all the fines for niqabis as he has done elsewhere, so now they want to help the poor oppressed women by throwing them in literal jail rather than their alleged fabric-based one. Can you get psychosis from cognitive dissonance? Dude owns, parties suck.
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Aug 7, 2018 18:49
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:
While being a wholesome Christian straight married white guy with two kids.
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Aug 8, 2018 06:19
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Denmark hit the international news again, and surprisingly this time it wasn't because they're super racist! However it wasn't exactly... Well, yeah... https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/penge/fox-news-sammenligner-danmark-med-venezuela-noget-er-raddent-i-danmark
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Aug 13, 2018 15:24
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Fox gonna Fox.
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Aug 13, 2018 17:18
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Why do right-wing types have such a hard time understanding marginal tax rates?
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Aug 13, 2018 18:24
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FRAMÅT!!!! What is Centerpartiet running on? Could someone do a short break down on what the parties stand for at this point in time leading up to the Swedish election?
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Aug 13, 2018 19:32
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Dirk Pitt posted:FRAMÅT!!!! With regards to Centerpartiet: https://www.fokus.se/2018/08/etablissemangets-fikonloof/
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Aug 13, 2018 20:27
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I like the simplicity of those SD posters, they don't have a campaign slogan or anything, just the grinning face of Jimmy along with local representatives. Its probably really effective too because their branding as the browns gently caress off party is all they need for their core voters.
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Aug 13, 2018 20:41
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Someone must have failed to get the memo out because the SD posters here are chock-full of messages.
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Aug 13, 2018 20:52
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Dirk Pitt posted:FRAMÅT!!!!  So far the only clear message I've heard from most parties is "Vote for us because we're not SD". 
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Aug 13, 2018 23:39
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Dirk Pitt posted:FRAMÅT!!!! C: The old agrarian party, now split between neoliberalist inner city dwellers who like low taxes and pretending that global warming can be solved through innovation and privatisation, and farmers and small business owners in the country side voting out of tradition. Staunchly reject cooperation with SD. FP: Old centre-right social liberals suffering from internal strife and lack of clear-cut identity compared to the rest of Alliansen. Used to try to push better (stricter) schools as their key issue. Didn't work out very well. Not sure if they've abandoned it. KD: Christian conservatives looking to disappear from the riksdag after decades of being the runt of the litter on the right, pushing social conservatism (by Swedish standards) and trying to make healthcare and pensioners their key issues. Currently led by Sweden's own Sarah Palin. M: Old school conservatives turned liberal centre-right turned back into some sort of centre-right trying to court the middle classes by cutting taxes and being Tough on Immigration. S: Social democrats in name only. Centre-left trying to court the middle classes by cutting taxes and being Tough on Immigration. V: General lefties, ranging from old school social democrats to socialists. Have not caved in to triangulation, leaving them with a decent but stagnant voter base of people who are not on board with the new S. Greatly aided by not being let into government by anyone ever and thus not taking heat for unpopular developments. MP: Centrists who dislike global warming and like when people are happy. Against bad things and in favour of good things. Completely devoid of backbone and will support whoever gives them a symbolic seat at the table. SD: Single-issue xenophobes that are courting the bigger parties while copying Alliansen's financial policies. A major force that S and M have tried to stymie by co-opeting their policies. In a surprise to no one, this has backfired. Beeswax fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 23:44
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I'm usually not one for conspiracy theories but this is so out there. https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/bildbrander-pa-flera-platser-i-vastsverige-polisen-utesluter-inte-samband/ quote:Maskerade ungdomsgäng tände på måndagskvällen eld på bilar, lastpallar och bildäck på olika ställen i Västsverige. Flera av bränderna startade vid 21-tiden och polisen kan i nuläget inte utesluta att händelserna hänger samman. Över 50 bilar eldhärjades.
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Aug 14, 2018 05:16
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SDU got sent to start the Swedish version of the Reichstag fire?
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Aug 14, 2018 05:51
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Norrskensren posted:SDU got sent to start the Swedish version of the Reichstag fire? That would be exceptionally stupid, so maybe? Too many people involved and filmed for this to stay secret for long so we will find out.
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Aug 14, 2018 06:10
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This ad is just... bad
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Aug 14, 2018 06:23
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Dirk Pitt posted:This ad is just... bad Still beats “Det här är Lennart”
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Aug 14, 2018 06:27
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Still feel they should have went with their original design.
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Aug 14, 2018 06:36
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That might have been too honest. Why is their symbol a dong? I hate election years. Blablablablablabla. I've seen some ads with utterly meaningless and empty slogans on them thrown up along the roads but fortunately they've put them so high up on lamp posts* that their small text is impossible to read when driving. Good job. That sure fills me with confidence about your, delusions of, competence. Morons.  *So you can't get at them without ladder. Maybe they got tired of having their ugly signs kicked down lol.
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Aug 14, 2018 06:59
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So far I've seen about a gazillion posters with dumb words from C and L. A few scaremongering posters from M and one single lame one from S. I'd be overjoyed if it stayed that way but I bet the rest are waiting in the folds, ready to make my daily bike commute more annoying than it already is. EDIT: All of these need to be posted everywhere, all the time. 
Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Aug 14, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2018 07:15
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Poil posted:I hate election years. Blablablablablabla. I've seen some ads with utterly meaningless and empty slogans on them thrown up along the roads but fortunately they've put them so high up on lamp posts* that their small text is impossible to read when driving. Good job. That sure fills me with confidence about your, delusions of, competence. Morons. If you are not completely disillusioned by politics at Election Day, I don’t know what to say. Although the after election debate have quite some potential this time around for hilarity/tragic comedy/WTF.
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Aug 14, 2018 07:18
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MiddleOne posted:I'm usually not one for conspiracy theories but this is so out there. Turns out if you can coordinate the transport, distribution and accounting for drug trafficking down to the gram, it is not really that hard to coordinate the burning of a bunch of cars. The reactions to the whole thing across the political spectrum just confirms how bad this election will be. Also, it took a week for climate and police shootings to be forgotten.
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Aug 14, 2018 14:23
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Cardiac posted:Turns out if you can coordinate the transport, distribution and accounting for drug trafficking down to the gram, it is not really that hard to coordinate the burning of a bunch of cars. Cardiac you don't have to be an experienced criminal to operate a clock and calender. The question is not how someone coordinated burning cars across Västragötaland for no apparent reason, it is why. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Aug 14, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2018 15:09
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MiddleOne posted:Cardiac you don't have to be an experienced criminal to operate a clock and calender. The question is not how someone coordinated burning cars across Västragötaland for no apparent reason, it is why. And the simplest explanation would be because it is August. https://twitter.com/mannegerell/status/1029330596340948992?s=21 Or maybe you are Daniel Riazat?
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Aug 14, 2018 16:14
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You'd have to be blind to not see that this is an outlier.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:25
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Burning down asylum centers: Politicians are not listening to the people. While regrettable, this is a natural reaction to the large influx of refugees and economic migrants. Burning cars: Exterminate all the brutes. Poil posted:Why is their symbol a dong? They want to gently caress everybody.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:31
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Maybe the car burning is a false flag operation by ISIS? Generate support for Sweden Democrats, who in turn will generate support for ISIS once in power?
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Aug 14, 2018 17:23
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Well, one of the few suspects has been arrested in Turkey...  http://www.gp.se/nyheter/misst%C3%A4nkt-f%C3%B6r-bilbr%C3%A4nderna-gripen-i-turkiet-1.7682344
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Aug 15, 2018 11:22
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TheFluff posted:Well, one of the few suspects has been arrested in Turkey... I saw that. Wonder when that ticket was bought. Also from your article, as for now the police suspect nothing besides the “usual” car burnings.
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Aug 15, 2018 11:44
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Is "the usual car burnings" a common phrase in Swedish politics?
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Aug 15, 2018 13:13
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doverhog posted:Is "the usual car burnings" a common phrase in Swedish politics? Not anymore, cause they are so common and not newsworthy anymore. Yesterday 4 cars burned.
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Aug 15, 2018 13:34
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Well people should drive less anyway.  (Just kidding)The thing i find most annoying about the latest burnings is that the cops talks so much poo poo, someone should tell them to shut the gently caress up. They say it aint political when expressen got a video, from someone in contact with the gently caress ups that clearly states that it is. Like what the gently caress do the cops know, I live in one of these areas and it's very hard to feel like the cops got mine and my neighbors best interest at heart. like its a No-go zone, they are just criminals, they just want to destroy etc etc. Cops dont know anything about us and our struggles and frustration. Not trying to apologize for burning cars but we are really treated like poo poo by em.
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Aug 16, 2018 12:10
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