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Has anyone in the development team said anything about the concept of rebalancing units at all? I wouldn't imagine they'd mention specifics, but I'm a bit worried that puzzle mode and the balance of the campaign means modifying anything would throw everything out of whack. I'm very happy to hear that they're adding more co-op maps in the next update. Co-op is how I'm selling my on-the-fence friends on getting into this game. Zaphod42 posted:I don't know why waiting without moving is even an option. That's dumb. Moving and then waiting makes sense, sometimes you're just moving. But just waiting on the spot you started the turn on? You also can't cycle though your production facilities with L until all your units have moved.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:21
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Yeah, although then for that matter it'd be nice if you could like "pass" on a unit to be able to skip them in rotation, but they still haven't technically done anything yet if you end up deciding you want them to later on. That would be superior to having them wait in place then.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:32
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I'm having a hell of a time with 6-2. I keep messing up and letting one of the three commanders die.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:48
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Keiya posted:I'm having a hell of a time with 6-2. I keep messing up and letting one of the three commanders die. Rush the southern enemy port with your airforce and take it out + capture it, then secure the seas to enjoy Air/Water superiority and do whatever from there. He should only build two turtles from the south port before you take it out, and Nuru's port can just crank out nothing but turtles/mermen + 1 Harpoon boat for taste since her role will be 'take over the ocean'.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:12
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Honestly a thing I wish they would do for at least the singleplayer modes is, after completely removing randomness, just let players rewind to the beginning of the current turn, for free. This shouldn't have any difficulty implication at all, but will make a lot of things a lot less stressful. I hope they'll also do some serious control scheme and UI revisiting at some point, even beyond stuff like the damage matrix icons. They need to reorder some things in some menus, redo command flows, change the results screen animation, properly lock down controls when the player is not actively in control, and a bunch of other things. It's kinda alarming how much of a mess the game is given how complete it feels.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:15
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Fedule posted:Honestly a thing I wish they would do for at least the singleplayer modes is, after completely removing randomness, just let players rewind to the beginning of the current turn, for free. This shouldn't have any difficulty implication at all, but will make a lot of things a lot less stressful. Yeah, that was a really cool feature of Into The Breach. Which is a fantastic game that is vaguely similar to this and Advance Wars, for people who don't know about it.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:38
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Not sure if the development team is looking into unit rebalance yet, but they made a post on the Reddit saying they're seriously looking into nerfing Nuru for the next patch, so I'd assume they'd be open to unit rebalancing too. Nuru's pretty obviously overpowered, but they might want to watch the meta develop a bit more before diving into unit changes.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:57
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Mission 6-1 is the biggest pile of cunty garbage. Passed it with an E rank and I have absolutely no desire to play that piece of poo poo again. Edit: pretty sure I found a glitch in 6-2, Nuru was just on a barge that sank and it didn't lose the match for me, haha. Edit 2: nope I guess I just forgot I had two barges, Nuru is still alive 
Johnny Truant fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 21:43
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I just started Act 3. I am still very much enjoying the game even though I very much still suck at it. I'm kinda inclined to drag my feet on playing further until the patch drops. There's a lot of nice features in it that I want, especially the clearer icons that tell you what is strong against what. I think that might even help my playing a little bit if I had a better handle on such things... They haven't given an indication of when that patch will come out, have they?
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Feb 17, 2019 23:05
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Amazing. Is E rank the lowest?
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Feb 17, 2019 23:16
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TastyLemonDrops posted:Amazing. Is E rank the lowest? Haha, pretty sure seeing as I was absolutely horrendous 
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Feb 18, 2019 00:48
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Fedule posted:Honestly a thing I wish they would do for at least the singleplayer modes is, after completely removing randomness, just let players rewind to the beginning of the current turn, for free. This shouldn't have any difficulty implication at all, but will make a lot of things a lot less stressful. I doubt they'll remove the randomness, considering that Wargroove is Not-Advance Wars and Luck was a major thing in Advance Wars. My big beef with Wargroove is that they didn't actually go further Advance Wars and actually make Commanders REALLY matter, instead of just being the one difference an army might have from the other. Like Advance Wars had the Commanders modify and specialize their armies. As for 'rewind to beginning of EDIT: current turn, for free', you say it shouldn't have any difficulty implication, but it'd probably neuter the hell out of Fog of War maps. Which I'm not against. Silver Falcon posted:There's a lot of nice features in it that I want, especially the clearer icons that tell you what is strong against what. I think that might even help my playing a little bit if I had a better handle on such things... YES, PLEASE. The 'good against/bad against' icons are so worthless since I can't distinguish what any of them are at a glance. Kchama fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 02:05
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Yeah I miss how commanders in advance wars mattered more. Although they were fairly imbalanced.
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Feb 18, 2019 02:46
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I miss how commanders in advance wars mattered more. Although they were fairly imbalanced. Days of Ruin was better, but if I recall the balance was basically good, useless, or banned.
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Feb 18, 2019 05:04
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Which Advance Wars had the black hole Commander? Homie was definitely OP. Although I can't remember why, exactly?
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Feb 18, 2019 05:20
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Pants Donkey posted:Dual Strike was just power creep in the guise of a game. Dual Strike everything went off the rails but it was fun. Days of Ruin I think got a bad rap, it was better balanced and the change of setting was cool. Overall I did prefer the cartoony style though, and the balance did often mean they just nerfed or removed things, yeah. Johnny Truant posted:Which Advance Wars had the black hole Commander? Homie was definitely OP. Although I can't remember why, exactly? Uhhh I think all of them?
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Feb 18, 2019 05:24
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Johnny Truant posted:Which Advance Wars had the black hole Commander? Homie was definitely OP. Although I can't remember why, exactly? Advance Wars 2 Sturm was unapologetically broken (+20% to both attack and defence for all units, easy movement through difficult terrain, and the slow-charging but devastating Meteor Strike). He's nowhere near as broken in AW1 (+attack -defence when you fight him in Campaign, -attack +defence in Vs mode), and Von Bolt was a lot more balanced (if a bit boring) in AWDS. Caulder is almost as nuts in AWDoR though. Beyond Sturm, the other generally-regarded-as-broken COs in 2 are Hachi, Colin, Grit, Sensei and Kanbei, with Sami being borderline. To paraphrase The Incredibles, AWDS followed an "when everyone's broken, no-one is" philosophy, so ironically the power creep might have made it more balanced. And in AW1 Max was the runaway winner of the brokenness charts with that +50% attack boost on all his non-infantry direct combat units, later nerfed to +20% in 2. e: quote:Mission 6-1 is the biggest pile of cunty garbage. I'm wondering how to improve on it. Feels like getting that second port early is important, but you don't have much to work with. Can Merfolk be loaded onto Barges? e2: only when the barge is on on beaches it seems, because Amphibians are weeeeiiiirrrd. e3: well with some cheesy starting strats (beelining amphibians with a barge to the port, while taking on Ragna's starting amphibian force with a bunch of sea turtles) I improved it to a B at least. Still a long slog to finish the map off though. Warships are so slow when they aren't in deep sea (Harpoon ships, doubly so). e4: dammit I really want to work out this mission now. I like how we've had opposite reactions to it  e5: still a B after another go. Think I'll leave it for now. Of note, amphibians do a number on harpoon ships! Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 07:40
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Oh man, that checkpoint system sounds so great. I really like these types of games but have a tendency to lose focus and make dumb mistakes from time to time because I didn't make 100% sure every unit was placed perfectly. Having an extremely important unit get 1-shot-crit when you've already invested over an hour into a mission feels real bad, man.
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Feb 18, 2019 15:11
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Paul.Power posted:whole lotta Advance Wars knowledge Ah that brings back some memories, thanks! And yeah, mission 6-2 is also loving awful. Harpoon ships are loving stupid, basically naval combat ahold be thrown into the loving sun. Is the best strategy just constantly producing turtles, and trying to force the
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Feb 18, 2019 16:48
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... Wait, 6-1? The seaport suppression one? Really? That's pretty easy. Get turtles and merfolk going, rush a unit to the neutral seaport and shove a warship up. All you need to do is knock out the port and you immediately win. Like, I don't want to make jerk off motions but that was pretty straight forward? Merfolk can also two shot properties at full health, so you could get by with just rushing merfolk and turtles to cover, I guess. merfolk in general are extremely swole, just relatively slow For 6-2 I personally ended up winning on the land side, though I had a bunch of not-bombers helping clear the way. Control the seas with turtles and merfolk and clear the place with dragons as you push up along the coast. A dragon can safely one shot a ballista and they're not actually covering each other very well. Depending on how rocky the seas are you can probably air push the HQ from there or just send them down to rush the land route along. Either way you'll want all your commanders down south, obv. An even cheaper and easier method would probably be to push to the bottom port and then focus on the sea route and plug a warship north of the HQ to delete it. Warships are pretty cheap, all things considered, and it's hard to not end up with the production advantage.
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Feb 18, 2019 16:58
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Gamerofthegame posted:... Wait, 6-1? The seaport suppression one? Really? Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 17:18
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s-rank is 12 turns, so rush is relative.
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Feb 18, 2019 17:26
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Okay, got it to an A. I'll take it. e: at least I got an S on the fourth Caesar side mission. Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 17:57
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AI capture game needs work. Whoever said it was like AW1 AI all over again was on the nose
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Feb 18, 2019 18:45
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DTaeKim posted:AI capture game needs work. Whoever said it was like AW1 AI all over again was on the nose ai in general is a trashfire and it's turned me off from actually playing the arcade stuff i did a nuru normal run and did everything in under seven turns either on account of the commander suiciding themselves (and in one particularly egregious case they could've escaped with ease, but chose not to) or them just not defending their HQ and getting rushed down, particularly by a neighboring uncapped barracks it's not fun. it's real bad. we should probably do a AW-like tournament before everyone stops playing.
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Feb 19, 2019 06:57
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Gamerofthegame posted:we should probably do a AW-like tournament before everyone stops playing. Game is out just 18 days with an already great-sounding QoL update, and goons are already jumping ship. 
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Feb 19, 2019 12:51
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there's a fair amount of intrinsic problems with the game and balance that the patch isn't going to accommodate. also 18 days is more then enough to run through the single player stuff, so. The AI's braindead mannerisms aside, there's also that air units are use impaired, anti-airs are too strong against everything, pike spam is the way to go and the naval side of the game is an annoying slog given the extreme ranges of everything.
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Feb 19, 2019 14:50
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I do think the unit balance is pretty out of whack. Most missions I'll try to think up some silly gimmick way to win but ultimately end up falling back to wagons and pikemen until I have a frontline then annihilating their keep with cavalry while their General fucks around halfway across the map.
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Feb 19, 2019 15:18
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*AI sees u massing an obvious smashy line right over by their keep* "Nah nothing to worry about I'm going to focus on this half-HP group of spear guys and dogs over here. In fact send the Giant over that way." Also drat you have to be really careful with air units. I think maybe the Mages shouldn't have a movement range of 5 or something. Monkey Fracas fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 16:09
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I mean, there are actual humans to play against if the AI isn't much of a challenge for you anymore? I dunno, I've only played through the normal campaign of AW, so I'm not great at exploiting the AI in these games, but campaign seems pretty challenging so far (up to 4-3 now). Haven't touched arcade yet though, so I guess if those maps are more balanced then the AI's flaws are more apparent? On balance issues, I guess I don't expect perfect balance immediately? Not that I think it seems as obviously broken as some people act like it is. I was watching some of the recent tournament they had, and unit composition seemed decently balanced? Depending on map, just relying on pikemen spam didn't seem like it would win you the game. And harpies had their uses even with the strong AA options. Naval combat also seemed more dominated by fast use of merfolk and turtles rather than relying on the ranged units. I feel like people should let the meta play out a little more before deciding what needs to be rebalanced. That said, the development team is already planning to fast track a Nuru nerf in the next patch due to the amount of feedback about her being overpowered, so they seem pretty open to making balance changes. I think it's only a few very vocal detractors in this thread acting like the game is dead. Outside of here it's pretty popular and has a community growing around it. Which is good, because I'm having a lot of fun with the game.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:37
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Any balance changes are probably going to necessitate puzzle mode changes since so many puzzles hinge on some very particular sums. At least one puzzle hinges on Nuru's current brokenness, too.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:39
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I think with Nuru they're still deciding the exact change, but I think they were looking at a big increase to the cost of the units she spawns, which would just mean having her start with extra gold. People have also floated swapping the prices of dogs and pikemen, which shouldn't affect single player content too drastically. Changes to damage values do seem more difficult to account for, though. But I'm not assuming they're against changes just because they're difficult, just they'll need some time to let the meta play out so they can be more certain what needs changing. If you follow the Reddit or discord at all, the developers seem genuinely willing to work with the community on game improvement. So I'm hoping their game succeeds. We're never getting new AW because of Fire Emblem existing, but WG is filling the void.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:51
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I don't think the game is already dead, I'm only pointing out issues I've noticed as a veteran AW player. If they do balance changes, they can do what AW1 did and have different versions of COs.
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Feb 19, 2019 19:40
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Yeah, there isn't anything saying they can't have separate damage tables for Puzzle Mode (not the greatest thing, but it could be worse)
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Feb 20, 2019 06:23
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No you don't understand, even though there's multiplayer, a complete campaign editor, the developers being very receptive, and having a history of releasing huge improvement, this game is dead. It's been 19 days. That's enough time to finish the solo mode, so Oh and I don't like naval combat either so this game is definitely dead, geez y'all how can you not see this.
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Feb 20, 2019 12:16
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Johnny Truant posted:No you don't understand, even though there's multiplayer, a complete campaign editor, the developers being very receptive, and having a history of releasing huge improvement, this game is dead. It's been 19 days. That's enough time to finish the solo mode, so big think quote:history of releasing huge improvement extra big think have you played starbound cuz drat, lmao
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Feb 20, 2019 15:04
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Gamerofthegame posted:big think poo poo, I forgot they whiffed it on Starbound, touche. I was more referencing Stardew Valley! 
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Feb 20, 2019 15:33
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Stardew Valley was published by Chucklefish but developed by another guy. Wargroove is Chucklefish all the way down.
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Feb 20, 2019 16:04
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Bad Seafood posted:Stardew Valley was published by Chucklefish but developed by another guy. I learn something new every day. Starbound was Chucklefish 100%, as well? For some WarGroove content: gently caress any mission where you start with a finite number of units. I think I'm on the last mission 6-3? and like five turns in I just noped out of there cause I knew there was noooooooooo way to make up for my loss of units.
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Feb 20, 2019 16:11
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Johnny Truant posted:I learn something new every day. Starbound was Chucklefish 100%, as well? Have Mercia do the pushing and everyone else play defensively and don't let units die if you can help it; use her Groove to keep everybody topped off. Your rangers and knights are the most valuable units to keep alive long term because they will be the most help pushing on the boss, but everyone adds something. Use mage healing in a pinch but remember you only get so many. Push quickly because Valder won't stop raising skeletons.
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Feb 20, 2019 16:27
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