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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:I think its more likely that Vegas didn't realize that teams still had to honour NTCs after a player is traded. It seems to me there should be someone at Vegas whose job it is to know such things e: also even if the Sens screwed up in precisely the way Vegas is describing that says the Sens are dumb but Vegas still is too
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Mar 22, 2022 17:38
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ThinkTank posted:Again, why on earth did Vegas trade for Dadonov in the first place? The theory was that the key issue they had last year was finishing on the power play, and I guess they thought he was the best specialist they could afford. Plus I doubt they ever thought they'd be able to win the Eichel auction. You can see the underlying logic if you squint a bit, but it was absolutely a bad move then and now.
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Mar 22, 2022 17:41
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it's depressing that all of the nhl management groups that have shown interest in challenging the orthodoxy are so loathsome. you've got vegas pioneering ruining relationships with their players, carolina collecting players who are pr poison, arizona eschewing the whole concept of competition and tampa rules lawyering roster requirements their success (if any) will come with a giant asterisk that's gonna entrench the good ole boys network with their depth charts and "hockey trades" for another decade
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Mar 22, 2022 17:47
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the talent deficit posted:it's depressing that all of the nhl management groups that have shown interest in challenging the orthodoxy are so loathsome. you've got vegas pioneering ruining relationships with their players, carolina collecting players who are pr poison, arizona eschewing the whole concept of competition and tampa rules lawyering roster requirements "The only winning move is not to play." -Lou Lamiorello, March 2022
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Mar 22, 2022 17:55
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https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1506311773791694850
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Mar 22, 2022 17:57
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Alright if the Senators engaged in deliberate deception rather than just forgot to mention it I retract my criticism of Vegas
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Mar 22, 2022 18:00
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There’s no way this trade isn’t voided at this point, right? It’s such an open and shut case of contract breach regardless of who’s at fault. I don’t know how the situation is remedied but there is no way they can force him to go to Anaheim. The NHL is such a bush league. They could have nipped this in the bud right away and yet…
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Mar 22, 2022 18:03
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Re: taxes, isn't there some kind of flattening arrangement in the CBA so that players in Florida and Texas don't get twice the after-tax money players in California and Canada do? If not then maybe that's why Giroux wanted to go to Florida rather than Colorado though
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Mar 22, 2022 18:05
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fast cars loose anus posted:Alright if the Senators engaged in deliberate deception rather than just forgot to mention it I retract my criticism of Vegas Still Vegas' fault for not investigating it. It's right there in the contract, and any lawyer would have demanded that they have in writing that the NT portion was null and void. Eric the Mauve posted:Re: taxes, isn't there some kind of flattening arrangement in the CBA so that players in Florida and Texas don't get twice the after-tax money players in California and Canada do? There's lots of different kinds of taxes, not just income. Also, yes, the players must pay taxes in the other states that they play in. But players in non-income tax states such as Florida would have more flexibility in where their money goes (i.e. they could choose to not have as large of property taxes, etc.)
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Mar 22, 2022 18:09
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fast cars loose anus posted:Alright if the Senators engaged in deliberate deception rather than just forgot to mention it I retract my criticism of Vegas He really needs to clarify whether the “filed” means with the NHL or with the Sens. A lot of these reports seem to be alleging - at least by inference - that Dorion misrepresented Dadonov’s contract, which is a preeeeetty serious allegation - not criminal by any means, but at the very least something that would result in Dorion not being a GM anymore. At the same time, Vegas has the player for 8 months, knows they’re going to be trading him for at least the past 2-3 months, and never check in with him or his agent?
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Mar 22, 2022 18:18
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bub spank posted:He really needs to clarify whether the “filed” means with the NHL or with the Sens. "Checking in with players about to be traded" is just not Vegas' style, and I am delighted that it has come back to bite them
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Mar 22, 2022 18:28
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Eric the Mauve posted:Re: taxes, isn't there some kind of flattening arrangement in the CBA so that players in Florida and Texas don't get twice the after-tax money players in California and Canada do? I believe the league covers “privilege taxes” that get levied on even visiting players in some states but I don’t think state or national income taxes are addressed at all
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Mar 22, 2022 18:31
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bub spank posted:He really needs to clarify whether the “filed” means with the NHL or with the Sens. Somewhere deep in the bowels on the NHL’s offices/document server is some procedures document/email spelling out who is supposed to file what documents and who is supposed to disclose stuff and when that no one ever follows correctly/has bothered reading since someone wrote it up years ago. If Dorian lied, I can’t really blame Vegas or the league. If I’m at work and I ask the guy I’m working with “Hey, is this going to be a problem?” And they say “Nah, don’t worry about it” and I know they are the expert on the matter/are the person who signed off on it, I’m just marking it down that “Pierre said it was cool” to cover my rear end and not worry about it. I’m not going to keep asking him if he’s sure about it.
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Mar 22, 2022 20:16
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100% Vegas asked a confusingly worded question that was interpreted as Vegas asking if Dadonov could block the move to Vegas, and now they are trying to claim that no, they were really asking if the list existed at all.
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Mar 22, 2022 20:37
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Uhhh. I feel like they should be having a conversation with Dadanov's agent as they trade for him. I feel that doubly strongly given that the team giving the assurances is the senators
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Mar 22, 2022 20:38
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Simplex posted:100% Vegas asked a confusingly worded question that was interpreted as Vegas asking if Dadonov could block the move to Vegas, and now they are trying to claim that no, they were really asking if the list existed at all. Counterpoint, Dorian is notably incompetent GM in a league full of incompetent boobs
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Mar 22, 2022 20:38
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Man, sometimes it sure is obvious that most of the league's business is conducted by highschool educated golfing buddies who discuss everything during casual phone calls and never do paperwork.
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Mar 22, 2022 21:08
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pseudodragon posted:If Dorian lied, I can’t really blame Vegas or the league. If I’m at work and I ask the guy I’m working with “Hey, is this going to be a problem?” And they say “Nah, don’t worry about it” and I know they are the expert on the matter/are the person who signed off on it, I’m just marking it down that “Pierre said it was cool” to cover my rear end and not worry about it. I’m not going to keep asking him if he’s sure about it. Bullshit. This is a multi-million dollar contract being traded. You do your due diligence or you live with the consequences. At the very least McCrimmon could've asked Dadonov or his agent about the contract details, I'm sure it would've come up. Even better, have a lawyer look at the contract. I'm sure Vegas could afford one. I'm not absolving Ottawa of blame here, but there has to be better corporate governance than "Yeah, I'll take your word at it. Wanna do a line of blow?"
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Mar 22, 2022 21:22
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ThinkTank posted:Man, sometimes it sure is obvious that most of the league's business is conducted by highschool educated golfing buddies who discuss everything during casual phone calls and never do paperwork. Reminder that a bunch of GMs and team execs thought you couldn't put players on LTIR in the offseason until Brandon Pridham (who helped write the cap rules in the CBA) and the Leafs did it in 2017. Because a lot of front offices have never actually fully read/understood the CBA.
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Mar 22, 2022 21:27
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pseudodragon posted:Somewhere deep in the bowels on the NHL’s offices/document server is some procedures document/email spelling out who is supposed to file what documents and who is supposed to disclose stuff and when that no one ever follows correctly/has bothered reading since someone wrote it up years ago. This is a $10,000,000 transaction. Back when I worked at a firm that did corporate law, people billed dozens of hours in due diligence on deals worth a fraction of that amount. If Vegas doesn't have a lawyer on staff checking these things, it's shockingly negligent. Even if they were misled by Dorion regarding the NTC, that's something they should have caught within a week or two of the deal having been made. Not 8 months later when they try to trade him.
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Mar 22, 2022 21:45
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Dorion's taking a marker to the original fax document right now so it says "No, trade list!" and the team lawyer is ripping the Canadian Bar Association line off his business card
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Mar 22, 2022 21:50
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1506029020885909504 I don't know what you guys are talking about, NHL GMs are brilliant.
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Mar 22, 2022 22:02
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https://twitter.com/senscentral/status/1506368892280614912?s=21 One dumb Pierre was bad enough, two equally dumb Pierres? That’s too many Pierres Is there a Pierre in NHL management history that doesn’t suck rear end at his job? Pierre Gauthier was legendary The Dirty Burger fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 22:14
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The Dirty Burger posted:https://twitter.com/senscentral/status/1506368892280614912?s=21 The time honored tradition of saddling a young up and coming blueline prospect with a boat anchor of a defense partner to teach them how to fight through adversity.
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Mar 22, 2022 22:37
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Misanthrope posted:https://twitter.com/user/status/1506029020885909504 The Dirty Burger posted:https://twitter.com/senscentral/status/1506368892280614912?s=21 Which GM thought process is dumber here
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Mar 22, 2022 23:03
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... Tyler Kleven? The 6'4 defenseman at UND who has 10 points in 37 games and might stay for another year or two?
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Mar 22, 2022 23:17
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eXXon posted:... Tyler Kleven? The 6'4 defenseman at UND who has 10 points in 37 games and might stay for another year or two? My man, does that hockeydb count Big Hits?
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Mar 22, 2022 23:19
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eXXon posted:... Tyler Kleven? The 6'4 defenseman at UND who has 10 points in 37 games and might stay for another year or two? 6'4" defensemen don't grow on trees, plus his Big Body Presence is off the charts!
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Mar 22, 2022 23:27
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eXXon posted:... Tyler Kleven? The 6'4 defenseman at UND who has 10 points in 37 games and might stay for another year or two? Travis Hamonic is clearly the wrong guy for the job. Ottawa should trade for Tyler Myers.
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Mar 22, 2022 23:28
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I’m starting to wonder if Other Pierre (OP) made the Tyler Boucher pick. 3pts in 17 college games, sucked so bad he hosed off to the OHL and is currently under .5ppg. 10th overall lol. Cole Sillinger was the next pick. loving Pierres
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Mar 22, 2022 23:33
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The Dirty Burger posted:I’m starting to wonder if Other Pierre (OP) made the Tyler Boucher pick. 3pts in 17 college games, sucked so bad he hosed off to the OHL and is currently under .5ppg. 10th overall lol. Cole Sillinger was the next pick.
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Mar 22, 2022 23:35
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bub spank posted:This is a $10,000,000 transaction. Back when I worked at a firm that did corporate law, people billed dozens of hours in due diligence on deals worth a fraction of that amount. If Vegas doesn't have a lawyer on staff checking these things, it's shockingly negligent. you can look at nhl front office staffs and see that they very plainly don't have the kind of legal staff you think they do. most teams are lucky to have an assistant gm or director of player personnel with a law degree at all it was *revolutionary* ~10 years ago to simply hire people capable of reading and understanding the cba. things are not much better today
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Mar 23, 2022 00:08
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Vancouver says thank you Pierre(s)
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Mar 23, 2022 00:09
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The Dirty Burger posted:I’m starting to wonder if Other Pierre (OP) made the Tyler Boucher pick. 3pts in 17 college games, sucked so bad he hosed off to the OHL and is currently under .5ppg. 10th overall lol. Cole Sillinger was the next pick. Are we sure Tyler Boucher isn't just the second coming of Tyler Biggs?
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Mar 23, 2022 00:23
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The Dirty Burger posted:I’m starting to wonder if Other Pierre (OP) made the Tyler Boucher pick. 3pts in 17 college games, sucked so bad he hosed off to the OHL and is currently under .5ppg. 10th overall lol. Cole Sillinger was the next pick. It's just SUCH a baffling pick. There was a group of like 5-6 guys all expected to go in that range - Sillinger, Lucious, Lysell, Coronato, and the 2 goalies. If they wanted "NHL bloodlines" or a gym rat, Sillinger was right there and fits the bill on both counts. If they were dead-set on a RW, Coronato tore up the USHL, and Lucius was on a similar pace in an injury-shortened season. Ottawa had a clear need in goal. And instead they picked a guy who was injured all year, was expected to go in the second round, and didn't even score that much in the games he did play.
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Mar 23, 2022 00:40
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While I don't actually think an NHL team would make a multi million dollar draft selection entirely on the word of a tv analyst they hired the week before, but the Boucher pick sure stinks of Pierre McGuire walking through the door on the first day and talking about the "big boy out of the US National Team Development program Tyler Boucher 6'2 210lbs back at the 2020 u18 Worlds he was out there yapping in every scrum with..." and the Sens just taking him to shut McGuire up.
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Mar 23, 2022 01:07
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ThinkTank posted:While I don't actually think an NHL team would make a multi million dollar draft selection entirely on the word of a tv analyst they hired the week before, but the Boucher pick sure stinks of Pierre McGuire walking through the door on the first day and talking about the "big boy out of the US National Team Development program Tyler Boucher 6'2 210lbs back at the 2020 u18 Worlds he was out there yapping in every scrum with..." and the Sens just taking him to shut McGuire up. ridiculous if they picked him based on a mcguire anecdote it would be from his time with avon old farms prep as a 15 year old
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Mar 23, 2022 01:10
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Koopa Kid posted:Reminder that a bunch of GMs and team execs thought you couldn't put players on LTIR in the offseason until Brandon Pridham (who helped write the cap rules in the CBA) and the Leafs did it in 2017. Because a lot of front offices have never actually fully read/understood the CBA. Don't forget when they Flyers signed Pronger to a cap avoiding extension thinking it didn't count as a 35+ contract cause it was agreed to before he was 35 even if the contract started after he was.
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Mar 23, 2022 01:10
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The best CBA understanding was Jay Feaster getting Ryan O'Reilly to sign an offer sheet when he would have had to pass through waivers had the Avs not matched.
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Mar 23, 2022 01:23
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Or the multiple times the league has had to reject signed contracts because both team and agent forgot about the variance rules for year to year salary.
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Mar 23, 2022 01:29
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