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The Time Dissolver posted:#AllRapesMatter 'Hmm, yes, why wouldn't they say 'end rape forever across the entire planet' instead of eliminating it from a relatively small section of a city with documented comers and goers that can more easily be identified than a random assault on a dark night? Curiouser and curioser.'
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Nov 10, 2015 18:47
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The Vosgian Beast posted:and the part where he randomly declares that sjws don't believe men can be victims of abuse. Hardly randomly; he cited the controversy over rape laws in Israel and what happened to Erin Pizzey. Why do you feel the need to argue that Scott must be totally wrong about everything ever? Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 19:05 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 19:02
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The Vosgian Beast posted:The problem is you're taking his framing as non-disingenuous. That said, I really think this thread doesn't "get" Scott.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:08
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RareAcumen posted:'Hmm, yes, why wouldn't they say 'end rape forever across the entire planet' instead of eliminating it from a relatively small section of a city with documented comers and goers that can more easily be identified than a random assault on a dark night? Curiouser and curioser.' This is why it makes sense for activists on campus to make that their temporary political horizon; the justifications for singling out campuses on a national political platform is weaker.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:09
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Cingulate posted:That said, I really think this thread doesn't "get" Scott. Scott's a really talented writer and I think someone who really does care about arguing in good faith, remaining curious, and being kind; it's just that his entire worldview is colored by hypervigilance against anything that could be an attack on nerd group identity. Pobody's nerfect! Oligopsony has a new favorite as of 19:21 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 19:17
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Oligopsony posted:Does anybody have a sense of when this happened? It seems like the Google Ron Paul crowd has neatly separated into reaction and Feel The Bern, and it's definitely clear that libertarianism is the most common reactionary background story (one even described it as "post-libertarianism") but I'm not seeing any eg sharp trend lines on Google Trends (other than a rise in alt-right shibboleths from around the end of the decade) or the like so I might just be forcing a narrative. It is a tempting narrative. As a social democrat I tend to think of American libertarianism as a structure of liberatory rhetoric surrounding a practical outcome of elitism, racism and so on. If 2008 and the aftermath did a lot of damage to libertarianism's credibility, then it's natural to expect an exodus in those two directions depending on which was the heart of the appeal (to be hideously reductive). Since then the American political polarisation has hardened the camps. But like you I'm skeptical. It's a narrative that flatters my preconceptions, with a neat division of redeemed and damned libertarians.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:30
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Oligopsony posted:Scott's a really talented writer and I think someone who really does care about arguing in good faith, remaining curious, and being kind; it's just that his entire worldview is colored by hypervigilance against anything that could be an attack on nerd group identity. Pobody's nerfect! M position is [moldbug on]Scott is an SJW[moldbug off]. If you focus on a [scott on]meta level perspective, his views are perfectly aligned with what he calls SJW. He differs 1. on the object level,[scott off] 2. in tone and, often, rigor and smarts. (This is not surprising; he's arguing against people with much less education, and much more anger, than him.) The main difference being the "object level" thing where to Scott, the groups to be defended are not women, black people, etc., but basically anyone you can in any way consider oppressed under strict exclusion of western middle-class and up women. His main objective is the defence of these groups against the, in his view, monstrous (Moloch, Cthulu etc) onslaught by the clearly dominant forces of LIBERAL DEMOCRACY. How he got it into his mind that Slate and college professors somehow dominate American culture and rednecks and White Men have nobody to defend him is beyond me. Yes, he's probably mostly surrounded by privileged people, but he's also not absolutely insane. But really, that last piece makes clear Scott implicitly recognizes that "SJW" organs like Slate absolutely dominate the public discourse. Now of course, they don't; they dominate a specific share of the discourse, that amongst middle class liberals. (Everyone else watches Fox and listens to talk radio.) So somehow Scott assumes these people are the people that matter. That is I think the only way in which he could hold his perspective. If you accept these 4, 1. the main goal is to defend the weak; the weak are those targeted by the monsters 2. the monsters are those who dominate our society 3. our society is dominated by those who Real People listen to 4. Real People are people like me - educated, sensitive, self critical thinker types Scott makes perfect sense. ... right? Is that at all lucid?
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Nov 10, 2015 19:42
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Silver2195 posted:Hardly randomly; he cited the controversy over rape laws in Israel and what happened to Erin Pizzey. Why do you and Cingulate feel the need to constantly come to his defense? Especially when his evidence is some poo poo that happened in 19 loving 71 and the apparently matriarchal country of Israel.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:06
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Why do you and Cingulate feel the need to constantly come to his defense? Especially when his evidence is some poo poo that happened in 19 loving 71 and the apparently matriarchal country of Israel. im the barely legal but legally bangable time distance between haven house and the ecole polytechnique massacre
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Nov 10, 2015 20:10
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Peel posted:I tend to think of American libertarianism as a structure of liberatory rhetoric surrounding a practical outcome of elitism, racism and so on. If 2008 and the aftermath did a lot of damage to libertarianism's credibility, then it's natural to expect an exodus in those two directions depending on which was the heart of the appeal (to be hideously reductive). Since then the American political polarisation has hardened the camps. Don't make me recycle more of my effortposts. The Five Kinds of American Libertarianism These aren't mutually exclusive, and people will often mix them together, but they hail from different traditions and the hardcore versions of each are recognizably distinct. Note that all of these groups share the belief that they’re somehow above politics (but usually end up voting Republican anyways). Christian Libertarians Motto: "Jesus loves capitalism and big government is anti-Christian." Christian Libertarians see themselves as hardworking ordinary folk held down by big government and political correctness. They wish to harken back to a mythical golden age predating filthy liberalism. This is the most popular form of libertarianism in America. It was originally the product of wealthy capitalists during the Great Depression, who, in a bid to get Americans to reject the New Deal system, promoted entrepreneurialism and individualism as inherently Christian values. Most rank-and-file small-government conservatives are actually this—they may profess to love Ayn Rand, but they probably haven't read her books and they're largely unaware of her contemptuous atheism. This branch has the largest overlap with unrepentant bigotry—the modern white Evangelical movement got its start defending a very specific kind of property (slaves), and that legacy continues today. Ayn Rand Libertarians Motto: "The parasites are holding me back from true greatness!" Unlike Christian Libs who play up their salt-of-the-earth roots, Ayn Rand Libertarians believe they are Great Men being oppressed by the weak. And rather than Christian Libs worship of the past, Ayn Randians envision a future where existing institutions have been utterly destroyed to make room for their own greatness. They believe their own failures are the result of being held down by the system, while your failures are because you’re a bunch of lazy moochers. They deeply resent any suggestion that they have a moral duty to care for others. If someone has actually read Atlas Shrugged and calls it their favorite book, they're one of these. If someone thinks charity in general (not just government welfare) encourages dependence, then they're drawing from this branch of thought. Glibertarians (aka South Park libertarians) Motto: "I like weed, guns, and misleading statistics from the Cato Institute." They like the sound of libertarianism, but don't think too hard about it. Glibertarians live mostly comfortable lives, and fantasize that without taxes or regulations, they’ll be able to live even more comfortable lives. These are the libertarians most likely to spout lazy horseshit like “both sides are wrong” or claim there’s no real way to know who’s right and who’s wrong. (Except for their own beliefs. Those are always right.) Professional Bullshitters Motto: "I will say anything if you write me a big enough check." The bullshitters provide cover for other sects of libertarianism. If someone works at a think tank, they're one of these. These people are a factory for misleading statistics and red herrings like "Eighty-eight percent of Fortune 500 companies already voluntarily prohibit sexual orientation discrimination! Bigotry isn't a problem, because the free market has/will overcome it!" If Christian libertarians insist bigotry and exploitation are their God-given right, then professional bullshitters are the ones insisting that the free market punishes bigotry and that exploitation isn’t bad because people want to be exploited. Noble Grifters Motto: "Grifters gotta grift." These people are libertarians as a matter of convenience. They're part of an obviously immoral industry, but want you to know that they're merely responding to the market's demand and providing an extremely valuable service to the community, so how dare you punish their success with regulations. Why, they're practically saints! This branch includes CEOs defending blatantly evil grift. But what about Unicorn Libertarians, who fart kindness and love gays and actually realize that things like corporations, patents, the gold standard, and suburban sprawl wouldn’t exist without government policies explicitly creating them? These people don’t really exist. Anybody who thinks that deeply usually descends into trashbag weirdness (such as Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s belief that monarchies make superior governments because they act like wise private property owners rather than irresponsible statists) or self-parodying villainy (Murray Rothbard and his proposal that parents have the right to kill their children by deliberately neglecting them). Yes, there are other, smaller branches (like urbanist libertarians, whom are one of the few kinds of libertarian I find vaguely tolerable), but they're uncommon and have no meaningful influence over the discourse. Curvature of Earth has a new favorite as of 21:25 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 21:22
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Also him leaping on the denunciation train immediately when there's an internet abuse scandal in SJW circles, compared to him still not criticizing gamergate outside of vague "maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle" terms. The rationalist sphere bought wholeheartedly into Ozy's essay on what an evil bitch Zoe Quinn is and poor widdle Eron Gjoni is a totally reliable source, and never mind the evidence of the fourteen months since where the "victim" has been doing everything in his power to continue loving up her life and the "abuser" continues to just want nothing to do with him. Because "updating on evidence" is a phrase, not a thing that happens.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:42
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Cingulate posted:How he got it into his mind that Slate and college professors somehow dominate American culture and rednecks and White Men have nobody to defend him is beyond me. Yes, he's probably mostly surrounded by privileged people, but he's also not absolutely insane. It'll be the neoreactionaries he spends too much time paying attention to. According to Moldbug college professors secretly rule the world, so if the truth is in the middle they probably just rule America.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:24
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Nessus posted:Sometimes they were white, sometimes they weren't. The big practical matter was probably that Japan had enough of a modern army that you couldn't knock it over easily, which was what the Japanese were going for. Even pre that, one of the reasons we started modernizing the Japanese army was because we thought that they were more white, not in a racial science way, but in a cultural attitudes way. It also doesn't help that their cultural xenophobia had helped shield them from things like the ravages of opium and outside influence it also instilled them with a regal sense that let them try and negotiate with foreign powers as if they weren't a small island nation with an army who's technology was stuck in the 1500's and back in the 1800's we thought that meant that they had the right cultural disposition to be our baby brother sidekicks in the game of empires.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:25
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Even pre that, one of the reasons we started modernizing the Japanese army was because we thought that they were more white, not in a racial science way, but in a cultural attitudes way. It also doesn't help that their cultural xenophobia had helped shield them from things like the ravages of opium and outside influence it also instilled them with a regal sense that let them try and negotiate with foreign powers as if they weren't a small island nation with an army who's technology was stuck in the 1500's and back in the 1800's we thought that meant that they had the right cultural disposition to be our baby brother sidekicks in the game of empires.  My impression is the Japanese got pretty far on their own and mostly hired some European experts to pick their brains and close most of the gap, filling in the rest with idiosyncratic Japanese stuff or, in some cases, just skipping established orthodox habits altogether. Parallel Paraplegic posted:It doesn't help that anime can trace its origins back to loving Betty Boop Heh heh heh!! Japed again!!
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Nov 10, 2015 23:33
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Betty Boop was originally in this dog, as you can see in this amazing cartoon . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gua71Ia7rAU
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Nov 11, 2015 00:34
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Nessus posted:Which "we" are you talking about here Emperor Meiji was pretty progressive and was fascinated by the stuff that the Europeans brought when trade was reopened so that accelerated Japan's development a lot. The fact that they were so open minded about it probably increased approval from western countries a lot.
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Nov 11, 2015 02:22
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Cardboard Box A posted:This is beautiful
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Nov 11, 2015 03:05
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https://medium.com/@juliaserano/how-to-write-a-political-correctness-run-amok-article-9b828d443018
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Nov 11, 2015 03:31
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KiteAuraan posted:Goddammit reactionary shitfuck, do not like things I like...
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Nov 11, 2015 03:58
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Merdifex posted:https://medium.com/@juliaserano/how-to-write-a-political-correctness-run-amok-article-9b828d443018  I like the cut of this lady's jib. KiteAuraan posted:Goddammit reactionary shitfuck, do not like things I like... Excuse me for not giving a gently caress if bad people liking anime somehow ruins anime for you. 
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Nov 11, 2015 04:00
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Bad people absolutely love breathable air, and edible food, so really, we're all damned.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:23
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Bad people absolutely love breathable air, and edible food, so really, we're all damned. You clearly have never heard of coal rollers.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:54
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RagnarokAngel posted:Emperor Meiji was pretty progressive and was fascinated by the stuff that the Europeans brought when trade was reopened so that accelerated Japan's development a lot. The fact that they were so open minded about it probably increased approval from western countries a lot. The US also parked a fleet of warships in their major harbor and said "open your country or we'll annihilate everything we can touch with a cannon." so it was a wee bit more forceful, but yeah, Meiji being a huge Westernophile probably sped things along quite a bit.
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Nov 11, 2015 06:01
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Dr Pepper posted:You clearly have never heard of coal rollers. I hadn't heard of them either. They certainly are a thing. 
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Nov 11, 2015 08:23
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New Scott post! I wish I was this productive. http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/11/10/2d4d-ratio-and-psychological-traits-results-from-the-lwssc-survey-sample/  And particularly bad biotruths. 2d:4d is possibly the worst evolutionary psychology/biotruths idea I know of. Also on display: Scott's stunning lack of statistical education. He has rather good intuitions for mistakes when looking at other people's studies, but what he does here can only be described as the brutal rape murder of a harmless statistical practice at the hands of somebody wielding Microsoft Excel like a chainsaw. Qwertycoatl posted:It'll be the neoreactionaries he spends too much time paying attention to. According to Moldbug college professors secretly rule the world, so if the truth is in the middle they probably just rule America.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:15
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Betty Boop was originally in this dog, as you can see in this amazing cartoon . Old-timey cartoons sure did love spanking.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:59
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And Wonderwoman got tied up a lot, what's your point?
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Nov 11, 2015 14:43
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El Estrago Bonito posted:The US also parked a fleet of warships in their major harbor and said "open your country or we'll annihilate everything we can touch with a cannon." so it was a wee bit more forceful, but yeah, Meiji being a huge Westernophile probably sped things along quite a bit. Of course, those are hardly unrelated - the Opening gave a lot of impetus to modernizing catch-up as a program. (Hardly a unique event - "old regime shows it can't can't win a war" is how modernizers usually come to power.)
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Nov 11, 2015 16:33
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Cingulate posted:New Scott post! I wish I was this productive. thinking scott is not being deliberately misleading with his statistics 
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Nov 11, 2015 17:01
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:thinking scott is not being deliberately misleading with his statistics Cingulate prefers to assume good faith. This is both an admirable quality and completely useless when dealing with crackpots.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:16
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This is silly. The guy simply doesn't know how and when to correct for multiple comparisons, run a multiple regression/compute partial correlations, or focus confidence intervals. Deliberate lying about statistics by somebody who knows them looks very different from what he's doing there. In fact, almost nobody, I claim, deliberately lies with stats. It's mostly a mix of incompetence and unconscious biases.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:26
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Cingulate posted:This is silly. The guy simply doesn't know how and when to correct for multiple comparisons, run a multiple regression/compute partial correlations, or focus confidence intervals. Isn't like, The Cato Institute's entire mission to deliberately lie with statistics?
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Nov 11, 2015 17:28
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Isn't like, The Cato Institute's entire mission to deliberately lie with statistics? And economics.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:29
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Possibly relevant: https://books.google.com/books?id=5...20it%22&f=false
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Nov 11, 2015 17:42
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Cingulate posted:almost nobody, I claim, deliberately lies with stats. It's mostly a mix of incompetence and unconscious biases. Claiming "These aren't comic book villains, they really believe what they say" is spectacularly irrelevant. It doesn't matter. When a person or group consistently produces bad analysis that encourage harmful behaviors and policies, pointing out that they're not purposefully being evil is such an obvious red herring that I have a hard time believing you aren't trolling.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:46
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It wasn't even me who came up with the question of intent. I'm claiming: much like almost everybody else, Scott does not have the statistical education to do what he attempts, and much like most people, he does not know what he does not know. People who know stats a bit will readily understand the situation. Silver2195 posted:Possibly relevant: Cingulate has a new favorite as of 18:11 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 18:08
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Ichabod Sexbeast posted:And Wonderwoman got tied up a lot, what's your point? That was because Wonder Woman's creator was a dude with... eccentric views about the proper role of women in society. On the one hand, he was a kinkster of the sort who assumed everyone was into his kink on some level, meaning that he sincerely believed most or all women wanted to be sexually submissive to men. On the other, he believed with equal sincerity that women were inherently wiser and gentler than men and that they should should hold all political power. The result was a heroine who generally fixed problems caused by evil men but with a subtext of enjoying it when the bad guys figured out her Amazonian powers would be at least temporarily negated if they could manipulate her into accepting their manacles (bondage being her Kryptonite).
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Nov 11, 2015 23:03
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That was the joke, but you actually informed me a bit on his mindset, so cheers for that!
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Nov 11, 2015 23:25
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Oligopsony posted:Of course, those are hardly unrelated - the Opening gave a lot of impetus to modernizing catch-up as a program. (Hardly a unique event - "old regime shows it can't can't win a war" is how modernizers usually come to power.) Interestingly enough in Japan both sides of the conflict were huge Western weeaboos. We like to think of the Samurai who resisted modernization efforts in a Last Samurai/Shogun context with guys in bathrobes charging lines of gunmen with swords. But the leader of the Samurai insurrection during the Satsuma Rebellion was a dude who loved guns, cannons and wearing western military uniforms, he was just mostly butthurt at the idea of a modern army and constitutional monarchy styled government taking away all the "rights" the Samurai had that let them oppress the rest of the populace. But yeah it's not shocking the DE guys like the Japanese. It's starting to finally die out with the current generation of young people, but Japan harbors a lot of deeply ingrained cultural bullshit that is very much in line with their thinking. There are a lot of people, even though they were infinitely better after the overthrow of the monarchy, who fetishize the WWII and pre-WWII era of living, along with it's heavy classism, culturally accepted racism and religious persecution. Even modern Tokyo was basically heavily engineered to shove all the undesirables into ghettos, and the parts of the city that everyone will tell you are "full of gangs and criminals" are often the old Korean and undesirable neighborhoods where lower class people used to live but these days are just as safe, if not safer, then most of the "nice" parts of Tokyo.
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Nov 12, 2015 00:39
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These dudes love their racial homogeny.
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Nov 12, 2015 01:14
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