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Tomn posted:While pro-Putin support is high right now, I can't help but wonder what will happen when the veterans from the front lines start coming back home with stories of chaos, loss, and retreat. Or not at all. That seems hard to entirely suppress. Consider what soldiers returning home from WW1 did in Germany and how that created something far worse with WW2.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:09
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BougieBitch posted:That seems rather optimistic, historically the reverse happens What do you mean? Historically, what happens is russians getting shot for not being uruk-hai, like I said. gently caress you bloodlusters. This is already horrible, loving be realistic. loving christ, I posted way earlier how some of my in-laws were in on the horrific russian propaganda take- now I'm loving ashamed of lots of you. Lots of them aren't into the propaganda too, but no, now it's all "yes kill every Ivan make them pay, it's a land of monsters." From a bunch of people where 1/100 can read or speak russian. Then on the other side there's still somehow people pretending the russian and US militaries are equal and that russian terror attacks are par the course compared to the US. MLRS blast accidentally hits an Afghan village = massive inquiry, hits US news. Grads shell apartments for weeks, lies on news. Same thing yep definitely both sides. gently caress all the war and the discourse around it. e: and gently caress the daily abuse my flight attendant wife gets for daring to be russian around brave informed americans who know about what monstrous slut bitches the russians are. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 01:11
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Tomn posted:While pro-Putin support is high right now, I can't help but wonder what will happen when the veterans from the front lines start coming back home with stories of chaos, loss, and retreat. Or not at all. That seems hard to entirely suppress. Yeah the last time the Russian empire had a front line this large with as many casualties as they have it took down the tsar. I think a lot of these soldiers are probably going to be shuffled to the far East and soldiers in the far East will be brought forward. As it's been said many times Russia is required to Garrison quite a few towns and military bases etc so there are soldiers that can be brought to the front who aren't veterans of the north. This approach does have a side effect which is all the experience that some of these units gained on the Northern axis will not be joining army group B. I mean while Russians are ( not to be offensive) but kept stupid about the global political structure . They are aware of what's going on on the ground if they are an individual soldier. I mean they're the ones that are getting gunned down and loving smoked on The daily by ukrainians that were supposed to just surrender. I mean all the stories we saw about Russians just walking up on the ukrainians and either getting arrested or gunned down show on one side lack of training but on the other side lack of information about how to deal with an enemy they expect to literally cheer at them. The dehumanization of the enemy is tantamount to successful combat operations versus insurgents. Say what you will about the United States hyping up the Republican guard, but it definitely made the soldiers fight more fervently because they expected the enemy to fight just as fervently. So in essence my point is that by the Russian soldiers being fed this savior propaganda it's actually been very detrimental to them. Obviously that it didn't stop rampant genocide. I mean can you imagine a Russian soldier going gee im kind of hungry and the commanders said the ukrainians are going to help me out I better just go walk over and get some food.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:16
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They already moved tons of soldiers from the Far East. Like some of the identified dead are marines from the Pacific Fleet.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:21
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:What do you mean? Historically, what happens is russians getting shot for not being uruk-hai, like I said. Yeah. I only check this thread occasionally because of how fast it moves but drat, the calmer voices seem to be in short supply here. I hope Russia loses its war and loses it hard. But a bunch of you need to step back from social media; you're getting too wound up.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:e: and gently caress the daily abuse my flight attendant wife gets for daring to be russian around brave informed americans who know about what monstrous slut bitches the russians are.  I'm sorry you and especially she have to deal with that. It's easy to buy into the propaganda of "All the Russians support us!" that Russia is selling if you aren't careful. It's important to remember that no one in Russia has a real choice about any of this.Long thread with some measured predictions from a retired General. He obviously has little to no inside info, but he does have a lot of experience. He was specifically a tank unit commander so that's an interesting POV as well. https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1511098954292903943?s=20&t=QlbfEOUCNVD_cK3bgTfvzg The summary: https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1511098991395672071?s=20&t=QlbfEOUCNVD_cK3bgTfvzg https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1511098994172256267?s=20&t=QlbfEOUCNVD_cK3bgTfvzg Threadreader link for people staying off of twitter: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1511098952933945347.html
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Apr 5, 2022 01:22
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KitConstantine posted:
A "frontal assault" into the DNR an LNR wouldn't make sense as they've been under Russian control for the last 8 years. Yes, they are pushing toward Slovyansk (scene of large battle in 2014) to attempt to cut off the Ukrainian position around Severodonetsk.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:29
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FishBulbia posted:A "frontal assault" into the DNR an LNR wouldn't make sense as they've been under Russian control for the last 8 years. Yes, they are pushing toward Slovyansk (scene of large battle in 2014) to attempt to cut off the Ukrainian position around Severodonetsk.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:32
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https://twitter.com/war_mapper/status/1510772214739705860 https://twitter.com/kevinrothrock/status/1511130911848468489
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Apr 5, 2022 01:33
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FishBulbia posted:A "frontal assault" into the DNR an LNR wouldn't make sense as they've been under Russian control for the last 8 years. Yes, they are pushing toward Slovyansk (scene of large battle in 2014) to attempt to cut off the Ukrainian position around Severodonetsk. DNR and LNR borders are not the same as the borders of Luhansk and Donetsk--DNR and LNR are each Russian/separatist-occupied portions of the respective oblasts.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:34
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Orthanc6 posted:That... is a massive problem. If the people of Russia are unable to see Putin as the cause of their problems they will continue to point their rage at everyone else. Which gets extra bad when their lives get worse and worse as nearly every amenity disappears over the next year and jobs dry up. Even if their army is gutted they will remain extremely dangerous, and will get more dangerous if we just let them brood for years after this. My best guess is that things have to get very close to "total societal collapse, food riot" stage before people turn against Putin. Russians have always blamed the West (sometimes even rightly so), and there is 0 chance of the climate changing until they feel the pain directly and viscerally. AFAIK folks against Putin are either elites who have the most to lose or people born after '96 or so who don't feel any kind of debt to Putin for turning the nightmare of the '90s around.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:36
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FishBulbia posted:A "frontal assault" into the DNR an LNR wouldn't make sense as they've been under Russian control for the last 8 years. Yes, they are pushing toward Slovyansk (scene of large battle in 2014) to attempt to cut off the Ukrainian position around Severodonetsk. I think you've misread that? I think he's suggesting that the Russians aren't going to push directly out of the DNR/LNR regions to retake the whole of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, rather than the strips currently occupied by the DNR/LNR. Edgar Allen Ho posted:gently caress you bloodlusters. This is already horrible, loving be realistic. For what it's worth, I don't think I'm much of a bloodluster and if I haven't said anything on the subject it's largely because I find it hard to find anything meaningful to say. You're right, I'm sorry that this is happening, it's all terrible. 
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Apr 5, 2022 01:38
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Tomn posted:I think you've misread that? I think he's suggesting that the Russians aren't going to push directly out of the DNR/LNR regions to retake the whole of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, rather than the strips currently occupied by the DNR/LNR. Yeah they're going to push south from Izyum
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Apr 5, 2022 01:43
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Might have been posted here before, but Mark Hertling did a pretty interesting thread on why we just can't give Ukraine X, at lot of the points have been brought up in this thread, but I think it's a good read for people like me who feel frustrated over seeing Ukraine begging for tanks, planes etc. and not getting anything. https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1510341553520361472
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Apr 5, 2022 01:44
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Tomn posted:I think you've misread that? I think he's suggesting that the Russians aren't going to push directly out of the DNR/LNR regions to retake the whole of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, rather than the strips currently occupied by the DNR/LNR. Nah let's go with next week's episode of War: Surprise Clownshoes: Russia attacks their own separatist enclave in the occupied DNR/LNR. Yeah I only imagine the people of Russia will go against Putin if things get really dire, but it looks like things will be getting very dire for them very quickly. I really wish they didn't have to go through the hell before them, but I don't see any more peaceful options to stopping Putin, who absolutely needs to be stopped. Aside from the soldiers who committed warcrimes, they can go get dumped in the middle of Arctic ocean.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:45
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Pookah posted:Seeing the latest reports of atrocities out of Ukraine, and I'm at the point where I cannot deal with this level of cruelty and devastation. Been reading about the culture of dedovshchina, or hazing/bullying in the Russian army from Wikipedia: quote:Dedovshchina is the informal practice of hazing and abuse of junior conscripts historically in the Soviet Armed Forces and today in the Russian armed forces, Internal Troops, and to a much lesser extent FSB, Border Guards, as well as the military forces of certain former Soviet Republics. It consists of brutalization by more senior conscripts, NCOs, and officers. And from the Guardian: quote:The father of a Russian conscript who allegedly shot and killed eight fellow soldiers on an army base last month has blamed a culture of brutal bullying for driving his son to carry out the attack, raising fresh concerns over a poisonous culture of hazing that Russia claimed to have eliminated from its army. Yup, this is the sort of military culture that is going to churn out a bunch of brutal rapists and thugs who set out to commit all sorts of war crimes. Rotten to the core.
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Apr 5, 2022 01:53
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So according to the marxist-leninist progressive anti imperialist leftist crowd (almost 100% affluent American twenty/thirty somethings on social media), Ukraine is false flagging the poo poo out of their own population while the Russian military kicks the poo poo out of the Ukrainian military. This is part of Putin's plan to set up a multi polar world that will improve the well being of Russians for generations to come. I'm not making this poo poo up. I would link to these cringe factories but I don't want to get them anymore views. Should probably stop poking my head in to see what's going on for my own sanity too, I was just hoping someone in the comments would've called out their bullshit but doesn't seem to be happening.
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Apr 5, 2022 02:01
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jmnmu posted:So according to the marxist-leninist progressive anti imperialist leftist crowd (almost 100% affluent American twenty/thirty somethings on social media), Ukraine is false flagging the poo poo out of their own population while the Russian military kicks the poo poo out of the Ukrainian military. This is part of Putin's plan to set up a multi polar world that will improve the well being of Russians for generations to come. I'm not making this poo poo up. I would link to these cringe factories but I don't want to get them anymore views. Should probably stop poking my head in to see what's going on for my own sanity too, I was just hoping someone in the comments would've called out their bullshit but doesn't seem to be happening. You can find the greatest hits on the russian MoD's own https://waronfakes.com/
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Apr 5, 2022 02:06
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Herstory Begins Now posted:You can find the greatest hits on the russian MoD's own Here is the American version:  https://thegrayzone.com/ NMS for anyone that respects their own intelligence
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Apr 5, 2022 02:13
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Jesus that's orders of magnitude more insane than I remember grayzone being previously 
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Apr 5, 2022 02:18
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Jesus that's orders of magnitude more insane than I remember grayzone being previously Yeah Max Blumenthal posted an article like oh yeah the theater bombing that killed 300 children was staged to cause NATO intervention.
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Apr 5, 2022 02:20
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Yeah Max Blumenthal posted an article like oh yeah the theater bombing that killed 300 children was staged to cause NATO intervention. Max Blumenthal founded the Grayzone very shortly after a trip to Moscow. Around the same time he also did a complete 180 on his position on Syria, from being definitively anti-Assad to being pro-Assad. He does not publicly disclose how the Grayzone is funded. You can make your own mind up on what these facts means about Max Blumenthal.
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Apr 5, 2022 02:35
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:What do you mean? Historically, what happens is russians getting shot for not being uruk-hai, like I said. I was extremely angry earlier when I saw some of the pictures and did say that Putin's Russia is full of monsters and that the Russian Army invading Ukraine ought to be wiped out to the last. But those were very specific choices of words. I did not say "kill all Russians" and I explicitly said I would not like it if the kind of poo poo Russians are doing in Ukraine ended up being done to Russians in the near-future. Such distinctions are important. Perhaps the better choice of words for what I was saying would be "kill all Russians who order, take part in, or assist in Ukraine war crimes". Call that bloodlust if you like. I won't deny it. My feelings come from being very upset at recent events, how it continues to get worse, and a strong desire for it to end as soon as possible. Right now? The only way I see that happening is if the Russian Army is wiped out. Putin isn't going to retreat willingly. The Russians people aren't going to overthrow him. Now, If you have another suggestion for how to realistically end all of this that does not involve Ukraine surrendering or making concessions, I would love to hear it. Thing is I agree with you on most of what you say here: gently caress this war and what it is driving people towards. Yes that includes both your wife's mistreatment and my own growing hostility towards the Russian nation. Unless your wife is playing a role in all of this warcriming (and I'm assuming she isn't anywhere near it), then she doesn't deserve that poo poo in the slightest. For my part I know that my mind is going to some dark places as of late and I am not happy about it, but it is what is happening. At least I recognize my own flaws though, rather than the fucks who run wild with cognitive dissonance or paper-thin justifications for all of their terrible opinions and/or actions. I'm not pretending to be a good person. I'm just a very pissed off poster on a dead comedy forum who wants this poo poo to stop. All of this is hosed up. Yureina fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 02:38
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On that note, one thing I hope Europe will do is to open their doors to Russian refugees. Plenty of folks probably see the way the wind is going, and probably want to get the gently caress out of here. There's a ton of Russians (think LGBT, minorities, etc) who might be threatened by purges themselves, and even the ones who aren't might want to get out of the country now that it's going fully 'masks off' either out of disgust for what is happening, or simply out of self-preservation.
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Apr 5, 2022 02:41
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Hey here's a wild idea: If you find yourself devolving into Five Minute Hate-esque screeds against the monstrous Russkie hordes that must be cleansed, lest their intrinsic evil spread, maybe just I don't know Stop engaging with news on the war for a week? You are not accomplishing anything here but loving your own brain up, touch some grass. Do something else. Somehow, someway, I think Ukraine will manage without you.
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Apr 5, 2022 02:43
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JesusSinfulHands posted:Been reading about the culture of dedovshchina, or hazing/bullying in the Russian army from Wikipedia: This is true. It's why I have never ever went back to Russia. But also most men in Russia go through the conscription process, and somehow most of them retain their humanity. The obscene conditions of the army are no excuse. I imagine it's also the case they are not uniformly equally bad throughout. jmnmu posted:So according to the marxist-leninist progressive anti imperialist leftist crowd (almost 100% affluent American twenty/thirty somethings on social media), Ukraine is false flagging the poo poo out of their own population while the Russian military kicks the poo poo out of the Ukrainian military. This is part of Putin's plan to set up a multi polar world that will improve the well being of Russians for generations to come. I'm not making this poo poo up. I would link to these cringe factories but I don't want to get them anymore views. Should probably stop poking my head in to see what's going on for my own sanity too, I was just hoping someone in the comments would've called out their bullshit but doesn't seem to be happening. There is pretty much nobody I hate more than the loving tankies. At least the Russian monsters have some semblance of a reason for why they turned out this way. These dipshits willfully choose to be on the side of the genocide. It's disgusting. pokie fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 02:46
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Captain Oblivious posted:Hey here's a wild idea: If you find yourself devolving into Five Minute Hate-esque screeds against the monstrous Russkie hordes that must be cleansed, lest their intrinsic evil spread, maybe just I don't know Thanks Captain oblivious -- God there's so many questions that lie ahead. What is the next phase of this special operation look like? What does it look like for the Ukrainian and Russian soldiers? As Ukraine is continuing to mobilize more troops and Russia doesn't seem to be mustering a larger conscription base than normal. I wonder what has to be going through Putin in the commander's minds as to how to fix this. I mean it's obviously more fascism but what color and flavor will it be? Will there be a mobilization that needs more than Ukraine to justify its existence? And in the west we're still sending you crane more and more supplies. The Russians are becoming less supplied in the ukrainians are becoming more supplied every day. Well I'm sure the ukrainians probably need this time as much if not more than the Russians do, what will they do to utilize it most wisely? It looks like the regular Ukrainian army is mobilizing south east. A good bet would be to increase the size of the defensive ramparts at the JFO. Well this doesn't fix the immediate issue of the Russian Invaders presence it does prevent their advancement past their pre-existing lines. In doing so it continues the game. The defensive ramparts at the jfo have proven their worthiness over the last 7 years. That's why it's so difficult for the Russians to do anything about it, because the only thing stopping the ukrainians from walking over Russia was the threat of invasion. Now that that threat is nonexistent there's not much stopping them from pushing to the pre-2014 borders if the scenario arises. No I know the next part may be hard to swallow but after that I think that Ukraine should March into Moscow and demolish it. Then they can take their rightful place as the reformed kyivan rus and bring forward 1000 years of pan Slavic social democracy with heavy emphasis on heavy bass in the classroom. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 02:56
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Count Roland posted:Yeah. I only check this thread occasionally because of how fast it moves but drat, the calmer voices seem to be in short supply here. It's hard to completely articulate my feelings seeing how many war crimes have been occurring but of the few Russians I know personally one posted to his social media last weekend of blood all over his hands and a tweet that said "got punched in the face for going to an anti war protest" so it's impossible for me at least to brand the entire country as orcs, even if propaganda seems to be hitting its mark for a lot of Russian society from the window that western social media has offered me. I've known a couple Russian servicemen in my life, one when I was in high school (a VDV guy with two tours in Afghanistan and fled the soviet union before it fell and lives in California) and another I knew while I worked in the airsoft industry (first chechen war as conscript, second as scout-sniper, did unspeakable things he can never lived down, another immigrant to America.) Both of them were wonderful and kind regular acquaintences for long periods of my youth and helped establish a love for the arts, culture, food and horizons of the slavic world at important periods in my life. Both were programmed military men from fighting starting at a young age but neither liked discussing what they did and the horrible things they were and were not willing to admit doing. One of them could be in a pro-Ukraine militia right now, he tends to vanish for periods. Both of them loathe Putin and have family they aren't able to see much anymore. It fucks me up thinking that the only short term option to reach any kind of a better end than Putin is trying to achieve is that more Russian soldiers must die from the decisions of yes men, aparachiks and lunatic career military officers in a process that takes Russians across their society and traps them between colossal gears of history giving some no chance to escape from being crushed by the machine. A lot of the worst war crimes seem to be coming from specific professional detachments and a lot of the violence is being organized at a level that a lot of dudes on the ground really have not much control over, but groupthink and terror can make a bastard of anyone. Anyway I know its easy to get wound up with anger and hurt, that turning into a bloodlust, but folks be careful about sliding into big generalizations.
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Apr 5, 2022 02:58
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Jesus that's orders of magnitude more insane than I remember grayzone being previously Oh is *that* what's originating all this bullshit filtering into the forums and other communities?
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Apr 5, 2022 03:00
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jmnmu posted:Here is the American version: Why don't they have a single story in the last 5 days?
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Apr 5, 2022 03:03
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Paladinus posted:Why don't they have a single story in the last 5 days? Kremlin paychecks started bouncing.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:04
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Yeah the last time the Russian empire had a front line this large with as many casualties as they have it took down the tsar. We are tired of everything. We are loyal people and cannot go against the Government, but neither can we support the current Government. We are forced to step to the side and be silent. This is the tragedy of Russian life. A. I. Savenko 1914
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Apr 5, 2022 03:06
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It was amazing seeing the sudden drop of the russian-backed western mouthpieces once sanctions hit but so many of them seem to be back now. I guess Russia found alternative ways to get the money flowing again? Then again I don't don't that there's more than enough useful idiots willing to work for free.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:06
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Paladinus posted:Why don't they have a single story in the last 5 days? The hospital story is from April 3, and Gods of War one is from April 1.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:07
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the popes toes posted:We are tired of everything. We are loyal people and cannot go against the Government, but neither can we support the current Government. We are forced to step to the side and be silent. This is the tragedy of Russian life. As an avid opponent of Ukrainian nationalism, Savenko would probably be backing Putin in all of this.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:09
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Paladinus posted:Why don't they have a single story in the last 5 days? Things have been pretty black-and-white for the last 5 days.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:10
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Baronjutter posted:It was amazing seeing the sudden drop of the russian-backed western mouthpieces once sanctions hit but so many of them seem to be back now. I guess Russia found alternative ways to get the money flowing again? Then again I don't don't that there's more than enough useful idiots willing to work for free. Well they needed quotes of their own to say look I never supported Russia if the payouts were permanently lost. They went back to going to their all sides are good because they're like well gee sanctions have to end eventually obviously there's no NATO intervention so what do they lose by spouting both sides blah blah blah. I mean the Russian mafia apparatus can get money to people it doesn't need SWIFT and laundering isn't difficult when you have a lot of money. utilizing American citizens that are not Russians is always going to happen because there's always sellouts. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 03:10
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Sir John Falstaff posted:The hospital story is from April 3, and Gods of War one is from April 1. I see, not only are they extremely slow, their navigation also sucks.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:13
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:No I know the next part may be hard to swallow but after that I think that Ukraine should March into Moscow and demolish it. Then they can take their rightful place as the reformed kyivan rus and bring forward 1000 years of pan Slavic social democracy with heavy emphasis on heavy bass in the classroom. Mate, seriously, take a break from Ukraine. I don't think following it is doing you any good right now. I realize you're probably joking but still, take a break.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:14
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WCG's posting was weird and often tasteless well before the invasion
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