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I'm starting to suspect no one who compares things to Dark Souls has actually played Dark Souls. Or any video game, for that matter.
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May 27, 2022 19:01
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Sonic is the Dark Souls of Mario games
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May 27, 2022 19:04
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Opopanax posted:I got to say that game doesn't sound very fun My hatred of platformers intensifies...
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May 27, 2022 19:11
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Hel posted:Dark Souls doesn't have obtuse secrets like old adventure games, it has obtuse secrets like old dungeoncrawlers. I mean, yes, but let's be real there's only so many degrees separation when it comes down to "spiteful old DOS games hiding poo poo from you". Especially since adventure games and RPGs are just divergent branches from the same root. Crowetron posted:I'm starting to suspect no one who compares things to Dark Souls has actually played Dark Souls. Or any video game, for that matter. There's some truly dismal and idiotically loose comparisons to Dark Souls out there...I'm not sure why La-Mulana in particular is so out of left field though.
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May 27, 2022 20:38
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La Mulana is a 2D sprite-based platformer about a man whipping skeletons. Jump physics are strict, there's a pumping energetic soundtrack to contrast to the spooky environments, and when you kill bosses they drop floating orbs as a reward. Is Dark Souls really the game that first comes to mind when thinking of comparisons?
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May 27, 2022 20:56
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I dunno, someone was talking about how they found it hard and within about half a page someone else popped up to claim it wasnt that hard and they should just git gud, sounds like a souls game to me.
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May 27, 2022 21:19
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Crowetron posted:La Mulana is a 2D sprite-based platformer about a man whipping skeletons. Jump physics are strict, there's a pumping energetic soundtrack to contrast to the spooky environments, and when you kill bosses they drop floating orbs as a reward. Is Dark Souls really the game that first comes to mind when thinking of comparisons? Wait, the jump physics being strict make it less like Dark Souls??? Also I see what you're trying to do, and ironically I think that's some surface level bullshit and La-Mulana is nothing like Castlevania, even the Metroidvania ones. Okay that's a flippant exaggeration, but still. If it helps at all, I'd say Symphony of the Night is akin to Dark Souls and La-Mulana is akin to Dark Souls, but SotN and LM are not automatically akin to each other though they share some superficial similarities. John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 21:27 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 21:21
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I will say La Mulana and the Souls games definitely have a similar sense of humor when it comes to rewarding you with useless things for doing really dumb stuff you just thought would be fun, especially the later souls games. La Mulana has the Hell Temple reward, a skimpy bathing suit followed by a full screen rendition of the hero wearing it in all its snug glory. DS2 gives you two separate rings for beating the game either without ever dying or without ever using a bonfire, and all they do is make your weapon invisible which is really cool imo it's like being given big head mode or something. edit: Fun fact, the Hell Temple reward is actually an obscure reference to Dragon Quest, comparison to the real thing here,  I guess??And then there's also stuff like just generally playing with your expectations by making there be two traps/challenges, followed by a third trap which operates differently but if you're paying attention you can catch it before it gets you. I picture a bit of La Mulana where there's two pits of water and then a third where a fish jumps out, if you're just mindlessly jumping the gaps it's timed exactly such that it'll bonk you and you'll fall in. That air of design where 'tricking' the player is more about taking advantage of your cognitive blind spots, basically giving you things about the upcoming environment that you have to keep in mind inbetween the platforming you do in La Mulana and the circle strafing you do in Souls. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 21:30 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 21:23
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CJacobs posted:I will say La Mulana and the Souls games definitely have a similar sense of humor when it comes to rewarding you with useless things for doing really dumb stuff you just thought would be fun, especially the later souls games. La Mulana has the Hell Temple reward, a skimpy bathing suit followed by a full screen rendition of the hero wearing it in all its snug glory. DS2 gives you two separate rings for beating the game either without ever dying or without ever using a bonfire, and all they do is make your weapon invisible which is really cool imo it's like being given big head mode or something. La mulana does a lot of this where it locks the player into a platforming sequence that requires muscle memory where you absolutely cannot stop moving only to throw up an obstacle / monster to interrupt you and knock you into a pit / death trap at the very end of the sequence. That feeling of white knuckle platforming only to have your stomach sink when you see the unavoidable obstacle incoming creates an “ah gently caress you game” moment that is very distinctly unique to La Mulana. Sometimes it’s so evil/ingenious that you can’t help but laugh.
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May 27, 2022 22:08
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CJacobs posted:
I work at the pixelated swimsuit factory so this was extremely safe for work for me
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May 27, 2022 22:15
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Frank Frank posted:I didn’t forget. I literally spent a decade playing it and my “favorite little thing” is that I finally beat it. I absolutely do love the game. It has made me insanely frustrated, but I also love it. I also love talking about the game because no one I know irl has actually played it. I think it's pretty cool a goon spent a decade beating one game. Like coming back to it now and then to go a bit further until they finish the story years later. I imagine it gives a different sense of perspective to bingeing through a game in a week
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May 27, 2022 22:28
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ilmucche posted:I think it's pretty cool a goon spent a decade beating one game. Like coming back to it now and then to go a bit further until they finish the story years later. It was a unique experience and I didn’t plan it out that way. It just sorta happened. I started playing the original freeware version on my laptop while I was traveling for work. Then I bought the Xbox remaster and finally the PS4 box set (both 1 and 2 with the soundtrack and artwork). Thanks though, it was fun as heck and I’m jazzed I can share the victory (as lame as it is) with folks who also enjoyed the game. I finally hit my first “gently caress this” moment with 2 when I went after Kujata. The boss fight has a 45 second intro sequence you cannot skip and the only part of the fight that matters is the final phase where the difficulty suddenly ramps up to 11. This game is so much tighter mechanically than the first game though - minus the fact that your iframes no longer count if an enemy bounces you into spikes which can result in stupid ping pong instadeath poo poo (that is kinda funny). That’s a new “fun” addition from part 1 Frank Frank has a new favorite as of 23:10 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 23:03
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There are some brilliantly-crafted deathtraps in LM2. One area in particular will do things like, if you fall slightly short on a jump, then you'll slide down a slope, hit some spikes, get knocked flying into another slope, which deposits you underneath a falling pot which crushes you to death. The whole thing spans three screens, and you just have to laugh when it gets you.
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May 27, 2022 23:24
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:There are some brilliantly-crafted deathtraps in LM2. One area in particular will do things like, if you fall slightly short on a jump, then you'll slide down a slope, hit some spikes, get knocked flying into another slope, which deposits you underneath a falling pot which crushes you to death. The whole thing spans three screens, and you just have to laugh when it gets you. Oh joy. I’ve only seen a couple like that in the frost giant area but nothing that elaborate yet.
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May 27, 2022 23:27
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A friend of mine plays La Mulana and stuff and told me about how the... April Fools mod or something has a bunch of items whose names are all anagrams of one lovely item in the base game? I think that absolutely rules.
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May 28, 2022 03:29
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John Murdoch posted:Wait, the jump physics being strict make it less like Dark Souls??? Also I see what you're trying to do, and ironically I think that's some surface level bullshit and La-Mulana is nothing like Castlevania, even the Metroidvania ones. Okay that's a flippant exaggeration, but still. The original version of La-Mulana outright has Castlevania as one of the MSX games you gather and part of a combination that massively powers up your whip weapon. (Speaking of, having the whip upgrade to a chain is also a clear Castlevania reference) Dark Souls comparisons also come to mind in the setting being the surreal and diverse ruins of multiple fallen civilisations that don't quite follow the laws of physics (Trying to make a full game map is apparently pretty impossible even considering some areas that are specifically looping and places being 2D representations of a 3D space) inhabited by some of the remaining inhabitants of said civilisation, some as boss fights. La-Mulana obviously has a very different tone with its Indiana Jones riffs (and Lemeza's sprite kinda looks a bit like Inspector Gadget imo), increasingly diverse and wild aesthetics, and loose handle on the fourth wall, but a lot of the design philosophy still feels familiar.
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May 28, 2022 10:55
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La-Mulana is very cartoony on the surface but because of it's relative obtuseness it manages to feel properly epic in a way videogames rarely do. Keeping a journal, drawing maps, familiarizing yourself with babylonian deities, it all gives this feeling of partaking in a myth of discovering the roots of humanity. There's also an immortal waifu, land of contrasts etc.
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May 28, 2022 12:30
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Also much like Dark Souls, the gods are all dicks and they're boss fights.
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May 28, 2022 13:01
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Also much like Dark Souls, the gods are all dicks and they're boss fights. How many of them are “gods”? The first two definitely aren’t. Bahamut doesn’t appear to be but maybe was worshipped as a god at some point. Viy isn’t. Baphomet and Tiamat very much are. Palenque isn’t but the Mother/La Mulana definitely is. That reveal is loving awesome btw and makes for one hell of a plot twist. The lore in these games is so much fun. I’m glad part 2 added a bestiary but it sucks that the only version of 1 that has it is the PS Vita version.
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May 28, 2022 13:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:(Trying to make a full game map is apparently pretty impossible even considering some areas that are specifically looping and places being 2D representations of a 3D space) If I remember correctly, the Tower of the Goddess (the most vertical area in the game) has an entrance at the lowest part of the map, you can walk in a straight line (well, no net screen transitions up or down, so you're on the same row at the end as when you started) and end up at the highest point on the map.
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May 28, 2022 13:31
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The original version of La-Mulana outright has Castlevania as one of the MSX games you gather and part of a combination that massively powers up your whip weapon. (Speaking of, having the whip upgrade to a chain is also a clear Castlevania reference) I don't mean to imply the creators have literally never heard of Castlevania or weren't influenced by it at all, just that boiling it all down to "guy with a whip = Castlevania, DUH" is kind of weird. Especially when, as previously mentioned, the game is also heavily based on Maze of Galious. Really my point has always just been that in terms of how it makes the player feel, the way that it makes the player acclimate to its sometimes strange and/or frustrating rules, its overall level of difficulty, and its fascination with cryptic bullshit...all of those things make it feel like Dark Souls, even if otherwise they fundamentally go about things very differently. And I find that spiritual connection much more interesting than the dime-a-dozen "check it out, when you die you DROP ALL YOUR STUFF  " games out there.
John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 20:03 on May 28, 2022 |
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May 28, 2022 19:57
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John Murdoch posted:I don't mean to imply the creators have literally never heard of Castlevania or weren't influenced by it at all, just that boiling it all down to "guy with a whip = Castlevania, DUH" is kind of weird. Especially when, as previously mentioned, the game is also heavily based on Maze of Galious. Progression in La mulana is whip -> chain whip -> morning star/flail identical to the first Castlevania game and I doubt that’s a coincidence
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May 28, 2022 20:01
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Ultimately, La Mulana pulls inspiration from goddamn everywhere. Some influences are just more obvious than others.
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May 28, 2022 20:11
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Reminds me: I hosed up the puzzle to get a whip upgrade in La-Mulana, one of the only puzzles you can actually gently caress up in the game, I think there's three Luckily there's another puzzle/secret in the game that lets you revert one single hosed-up puzzle
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May 28, 2022 20:14
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John Lee posted:Reminds me: I hosed up the puzzle to get a whip upgrade in La-Mulana, one of the only puzzles you can actually gently caress up in the game, I think there's three Lol in the original freeware version that option did not exist. If you hosed up you were just locked out of those upgrades forever. I did not beat that version. Also there were multiple upgrades you could lock yourself out of and that wasn’t even close to the only one.
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May 28, 2022 20:19
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I guess to put it another way, in both DS and LM it feels like the developers are trying to communicate to you in a foreign language and by the end of the game there's a genuine sense of accomplishment in having decoded that design language after having been forced to acclimatize and ultimately internalize it. I don't quite get that same feeling from other Metroidvanias. In something like Aria of Sorrow there's still certainly a sense of progression, but it's more of a simple stats go up, gear gets better power accumulation/get keys to open doors process moreso than my entire understanding of the game world fundamentally shifting. A few of them flirt close to it, with stuff like SotN and HoD's map twists, but idk, I still never felt like I was having a conversation with the designers in the same sense. Of course now I'm wondering if people's heads will explode if I say I also regularly compare Dark Souls to Myst.
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May 28, 2022 20:35
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John Murdoch posted:I guess to put it another way, in both DS and LM it feels like the developers are trying to communicate to you in a foreign language and by the end of the game there's a genuine sense of accomplishment in having decoded that design language after having been forced to acclimatize and ultimately internalize it. This is well-put. La Mulana forces the player to engage with it on its own terms and the end result is extremely satisfying. Outside of HP increases, there aren’t many straight power-ups in the game - instead you get situational tools and eventually have enough that you can craft your own strategy for powering through
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May 28, 2022 20:44
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I decided to give Cyberpunk 2077 another try after all the updates, and I'd forgotten how much I like the concept of braindances as an investigative puzzle. Basically a recording of someone's experience doing something, except it's then turned into a full VR simulation that you can investigate in 3D outside of their viewing, switch around through multiple layers looking for clues in audio/IR/etc, and pause/fast forward/rewind on the fly while doing all that. I don't remember how much it's used in the game after this first mission, but it's neat enough that I'd like a whole game designed around investigating mysteries/planning strategies/etc using that interface.
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May 29, 2022 01:04
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Captain Hygiene posted:I decided to give Cyberpunk 2077 another try after all the updates, and I'd forgotten how much I like the concept of braindances as an investigative puzzle. Basically a recording of someone's experience doing something, except it's then turned into a full VR simulation that you can investigate in 3D outside of their viewing, switch around through multiple layers looking for clues in audio/IR/etc, and pause/fast forward/rewind on the fly while doing all that. Agreed, I do wish there were more and I’d dig a game based around that conceit. Yes I am aware of the boat game and I need to play it.
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May 29, 2022 01:14
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Kitfox88 posted:Agreed, I do wish there were more and I’d dig a game based around that conceit. Yes I am aware of the boat game and I need to play it. There was that game Remember Me which had memory editing as a central mechanic. Not so much investigating but editing their memories so they remember things the way you want them to. I remember the memory altering bits as being pretty fun, but too scarce, and the bulk of the game unfortunately being an entirely bland third person brawler. Felt like they either didnt have confidence in the memory altering carrying the game and thought it needed action to sell it, or possibly that the memory altering sequences were hard to write/design so they scaled them back mid development.
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May 29, 2022 01:26
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Captain Hygiene posted:I don't remember how much it's used in the game after this first mission, but it's neat enough that I'd like a whole game designed around investigating mysteries/planning strategies/etc using that interface. Kitfox88 posted:Agreed, I do wish there were more and I’d dig a game based around that conceit. Yes I am aware of the boat game and I need to play it. AI: The Somnium Files is pretty close to this concept. A detective enters people's dreams to find clues. Tacoma is even closer; you move around in holographic black box recordings on a spaceship, and can fast-forward/rewind on the fly. Both are good games!
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May 29, 2022 02:27
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Kitfox88 posted:Agreed, I do wish there were more and I’d dig a game based around that conceit. Yes I am aware of the boat game and I need to play it. Yes, Return of the Obra Dinn is incredibly good. It’s just a snapshot of an event with a short audio clip accompanying it but there’s a massive amount of information within each death if you know what to look for and figuring it out makes you feel like the biggest brain genius on the planet. I had found all the bodies and witnessed most of the story but I had identified maybe a quarter of the crew. Going back and trying to expand my mind to figure out what I could’ve possibly missed was one hell of an experience and I wish I could wipe my memory of it so I could do it all over again
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May 29, 2022 02:30
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A HUNGRY MOUTH posted:AI: The Somnium Files is pretty close to this concept. A detective enters people's dreams to find clues. Wishlisted both, thank you!  I've played some of Obra Dinn but got distracted for some reason or other. I'll have to go back into that one.
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May 29, 2022 02:35
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Kit Walker posted:Yes, Return of the Obra Dinn is incredibly good. It’s just a snapshot of an event with a short audio clip accompanying it but there’s a massive amount of information within each death if you know what to look for and figuring it out makes you feel like the biggest brain genius on the planet. I had found all the bodies and witnessed most of the story but I had identified maybe a quarter of the crew. Going back and trying to expand my mind to figure out what I could’ve possibly missed was one hell of an experience and I wish I could wipe my memory of it so I could do it all over again I figured out everyone and their fates except for the ship doctor. I finally broke down and looked it up and had a big laugh at myself for forgetting he's the guy who hired you and gave you the notebook in the first place.
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May 29, 2022 02:52
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SiKboy posted:There was that game Remember Me which had memory editing as a central mechanic. Not so much investigating but editing their memories so they remember things the way you want them to. I remember the memory altering bits as being pretty fun, but too scarce, and the bulk of the game unfortunately being an entirely bland third person brawler. Felt like they either didnt have confidence in the memory altering carrying the game and thought it needed action to sell it, or possibly that the memory altering sequences were hard to write/design so they scaled them back mid development. Iirc the writer left mid-development, and with how all the neat bits like memory remixing are at the start and VERY end it feels like they had an intern pad out a first incomplete draft of the script. Especially as there's one or two points midway that look an awful lot like "Insert Remix puzzle here". The memory remix stretches were legitimately great and would make for a neat game on their own. Especially as you could break them for bad endings rather than just a generic "this decision is wrong" response. Or in some cases unwanted good ones (eg; PREVENTING a car accident instead of editing the outcome of it). The combat also kinda sucked, because mid-game you get electrified enemies that NEED a specific strike type to disable their electricity, so the customizable combo system turns into a single repeated combo by necessity.
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May 29, 2022 03:11
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All this Dark Souls of X is making me remember how Hollow Knight nails the specific feel of Dark Souls, atmosphere-wise. It’s world is more beautiful than most Soulsborne levels aside from maybe some highlights like Anor Londo but it’s still the same feeling of wandering through an abandoned world where all the cool poo poo already happened while having its own identity. Also I like that The Knight is the one silent protagonist I can remember where it’s not meant to be a self-insert protagonist or whatever, he just doesn’t talk because he was made to contain the Radiance and so he doesn’t have emotions
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May 29, 2022 03:18
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The memory remix stretches were legitimately great and would make for a neat game on their own. They did, it was called Life Is Strange
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May 29, 2022 03:23
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OutOfPrint posted:I figured out everyone and their fates except for the ship doctor. I finally broke down and looked it up and had a big laugh at myself for forgetting he's the guy who hired you and gave you the notebook in the first place. lol, yes, basically the same thing happened for me. I managed to figure it out on my own but it was purely by happenstance. He was the last guy left for me and out of frustration I read the notebook from front to back and noticed his signature right there in the preface, as well as his location. Incredible facepalm moment Kit Walker has a new favorite as of 03:29 on May 29, 2022 |
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May 29, 2022 03:24
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I’ve heard super good things about Obra Dinn and resisted because I wasn’t really into the premise but I’ll give it a shot
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May 29, 2022 03:52
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Frank Frank posted:I’ve heard super good things about Obra Dinn and resisted because I wasn’t really into the premise but I’ll give it a shot I was unexpectedly delighted at the visual aesthetic, having thought it was just going to involve looking at static screens going into it.
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May 29, 2022 03:55
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