|
Red posted:But it gets worse than that: Wow, Goons really do ruin everything.
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2016 22:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:51 |
|
|
Sharon started out as one of those characters you saw in the late '70s/early '80s who were an old man's idea of what second-wave feminists were like: Constantly yelling about how they hated men, and doomed to be "redeemed" by falling in love with the male hero. And she was originally Carol Danvers's replacement as Ms. Marvel. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2016 23:47
|
|
|
Red posted:But it gets worse than that: But did she ever get super fat because of a writer's fetish?
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:But did she ever get super fat because of a writer's fetish? Well 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2016 13:03
|
|
|
Red posted:Well 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2016 15:26
|
|
|
Red posted:Well Given the previous panels with She-Thing, I can only read this as angry, bitter laughter shouted in monotone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2016 18:04
|
|
|
Since there's a bit of a revival of the end of Superior Spider Man in the funny panels thread, thought I'd post the flip-side of that with the touching page that leads up to it: And the aftermath:  Like I said in the other thread, the whole point of Superior Spider-Man is that Otto is Spider-Man. He's a terrible one that fucks everything up, but it's his show from beginning to end. Parker's just there to clean up his mess at the end, Otto's final sacrifice is what saves the day. That's also why it's important that Parker's victory over Osbourne is through Otto's spider-bots, using Otto's goblin cure. It shows that not everything he created is bad, he just wasn't applying them correctly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2016 05:54
|
|
|
Superior Spider-man is so bad. Jesus.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 03:13
|
|
|
Maybe but it's the freshest Spiderman had been in fifteen years
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 03:37
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Maybe but it's the freshest Spiderman had been in fifteen years Ultimate Spider-Man exists
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 03:42
|
|
|
I stand by what I said
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 03:43
|
|
|
I'd possibly be more impressed by Superior Spider-Man if it hadn't been running alongside Scarlet Spider which did the story of an ex-supervillain Spider-Man redeeming himself through interactions with other people infinitely better than Superior Spider-Man did.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 04:03
|
|
|
Well don't post panels of it or anything
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 04:15
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Maybe but it's the freshest Spiderman had been in fifteen years A slightly different tired cliche is not what I would call fresh.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 05:03
|
|
|
That speaks more to the state of Spiderman comics overall than anything
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 05:15
|
|
|
I feel like Superior Spider Man and Scarlet Spider were two sides of the same coin, really. Otto was a deranged genius who wanted to be a superhero to stoke his superiority complex. Kaine was a victimized lab rat who didn't want to be a superhero because he had a pretty deep inferiority complex. Yes, they were both "Spider-Man, but played by a villain!" but wildly different in their own ways. Kaine had a strong moral center but constantly bucked against it because of his dark past. He wanted to be a better person. He didn't kill. Otto had a black hole for a soul but tried his best to wallpaper over that with a Peter Parkery flaky crust. He wanted the easy way out out. He killed. What I'm trying to get at is that they scratched very different itches. SSS was a redemption story, Scarlet Spider was not. Kaine didn't need redemption, he'd already been redeemed by Spider-Man. The only thing he needed was to forgive and come to terms with himself. Otto needed to learn to be a better person. Kaine needed to understand that he already was a good person.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 05:27
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:That speaks more to the state of Spiderman comics overall than anything True.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
Malachite_Dragon posted:Well don't post panels of it or anything  Captain Bravo posted:Kaine needed to understand that he already was a good person. The interesting thing about Kaine was that he wasn't necessarily a good person. He was brutal, violent and without responsibility but also not heartless. He wanted to be a good person but was haunted by his own impulses, the literal monster inside of him, and his past, all of which hurt his attempts to be someone else. it would have been just as easy for Kaine to give up and go off to Mexico (which is what happens at the end of the series, though admittedly to set up New Warriors) rather than continue to struggle with the difficulty and pain of being a hero. It's a lot more interesting to me and I don't think it's a different side of the same coin. I think it's just much better executed. Superior Spider-Man on the other hand is just "haha, I'm a supervillain but I'm Spider-Man!!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
Captain Bravo posted:Otto had a black hole for a soul but tried his best to wallpaper over that with a Peter Parkery flaky crust. Now I want an SSM Hostess fruit pie ad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 19:26
|
|
Kaine may have gotten a second chance at life and been mystically cleansed and all that but you can't shrug off the kind of monstrosities he did as a villain and say you're a good guy now. Sure, I rooted for him in his book, but the question "Can I be a good person" is a real one when you were an unrepentant murderer for like a decade (or 2 months or however the sliding timeline works).mind the walrus posted:Maybe but it's the freshest Spiderman had been in fifteen years 
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
I admit that I may not have the best grasp on Kaine as a character, since I haven't read much from the clone saga issues. The only series I've stuck with that had him in it, honestly, was Scarlet Spider. But if I'm not wrong, wasn't the insanity, the bloodthirst, and the hosed-up appearance all part-and-parcel from the jackal's experiments? Yeah, he wasn't a nice guy and he didn't do nice things, but wasn't his brain basically in a constant state of rotting from within? From the first issue of Scarlet Spider, he's tormented by the things he did, he's convinced that he's not a nice guy and that any nice things he does are a side-effect of meeting Pete, and yet he still acts instinctively as a hero. Yeah, he bitches about it constantly. Yeah, he talks a lot of talk about wanting to cut and run. That's the archetype of an antihero. But when he finds a half-dead woman in a crate he doesn't quibble, he doesn't think, he immediately grabs her, rushes her to a hospital, and assaults a cop to make them help her. Once he's healthy, he instinctively and naturally does the right thing, all his talk about not wanting responsibility is just a hang-up from his memories and guilt of the past.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
He was in a lot of physical pain + his heightened spider-powers occasionally made it hard to be 100% sure about reality, but he wasn't 'crazy from the jackal's experiments'. He did all that poo poo on his own.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 20:57
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Kaine may have gotten a second chance at life and been mystically cleansed and all that but you can't shrug off the kind of monstrosities he did as a villain and say you're a good guy now. Sure, I rooted for him in his book, but the question "Can I be a good person" is a real one when you were an unrepentant murderer for like a decade (or 2 months or however the sliding timeline works). It's also worth remembering that Kaine was passed down (from near word of God none the less) that he existed because he could be the blighted murdering bastard that Peter Parker never could and he specifically could not be the hero Peter was because Peter needed to remain unsullied because ~plot device.~ And for good or ill he's the kind of dude who does stuff that event Agent Venom finds abhorrent, regardless of how justified lobotomizing Carnage might seem. Kaine was a murderer, an assassin, and an all-around rear end in a top hat who veered between selfish and basically 90s Venom and "can this guy actually be a hero instead of merely someone who kills bad people' is an ongoing part of his entire book that he isn't just a good guy in a bad lot but someone who genuinely did very bad things but with a spark of something more in him. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Sep 13, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Vision #11. Things get much worse.   
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 11:45
|
|
|
Did Tony really expect Vision was gonna just let him walk up and slap that thing on him? After everything that happened? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 12:05
|
|
|
Malachite_Dragon posted:Did Tony really expect Vision was gonna just let him walk up and slap that thing on him? After everything that happened? It helps to remember that despite being a genius, Tony is kind of an idiot. He's treating Vis like a machine that's malfunctioning, not a person that's struggling to cope with the death of a loved one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 12:15
|
|
|
I get that what I'm about to say is silly and the plot point is to remind everyone how scary powerful Vision really is... but I see Thor, Blue Marvel, Captain Marvel. Dr. Strange, and Spectrum. That's enough to at least get him to a standstill, and that's before you count auxiliary player potential like science crap from Spidey/Beast. Thematically it all works as a story and that's what matters... but contextually it's really only a half-step up from the Deathstroke fight in Identity Crisis.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 12:48
|
|
|
Vision has the power of good writing, not complete bullshit like IC.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 13:10
|
|
|
Is it good writing if it's still contrived? A  koan
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 13:14
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Is it good writing if it's still contrived? The dude has dropped a Hyperion instantly, he's not in the same scale as Deathstroke. 90% of the people on that roof are completely chumped by him, and if the the rest haven't come prepared to throw down instantly and with real force he can skate through them too. He's scary strong when he wants to be.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 13:24
|
|
|
Boogaleeboo posted:The dude has dropped a Hyperion instantly, he's not in the same scale as Deathstroke. 90% of the people on that roof are completely chumped by him, and if the the rest haven't come prepared to throw down instantly and with real force he can skate through them too. He's scary strong when he wants to be. Not to mention the Vision can become intangible. He could have gone into that cell and killed Victor without any of them knowing. But if he does just up and kill Victor, he knows his friends will have to hunt him down and try to take him and whether or not they succeed many of them will get hurt. So he's presenting his reasons for killing Victor logically and asking them to step aside because it's the right thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 15:27
|
|
|
Counterpoint: Tony and his ilk are consistently more dangerous than the dude in the cell. Seeing as the dude was operating under their authority, Vision should just carve a swath through them, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Vision has always been kind of like Martian Manhunter in that his power set is absolutely absurd but he isn't popular enough to get it treated like it should be.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Vision has always been kind of like Martian Manhunter in that his power set is absolutely absurd but he isn't popular enough to get it treated like it should be. That's the exact comparison I was making in my head while reading this discussion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 23:44
|
|
|
Much like Martian Manhunter, Vision gets taken out really fast in most Avengers stories.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 23:46
|
|
|
All true; all valid. I'm just saying that given the total combined strength of his opponents it shouldn't be nearly as one-sided as everyone is making it out to be.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 23:52
|
|
|
Maybe he wants to lose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 01:08
|
|
|
That's even worse! Suicide By Friends 
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
He loses because humans are fallible
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 02:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 09:51 |
|
|
Malachite_Dragon posted:That's even worse! Suicide By Friends "So no one told you life was gonna be this way!" *BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG* "Your job's a joke, you're broke! Your love life's D-O-A!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2016 02:18
|
|
