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zoux posted:When was the last time a US General was killed by an enemy? ACW? The US lost a 3 star general to one flying an enemy aircraft (a MiG-23) which ended up coming apart and killing him in the process during the CONSTANT PEG program in the 80s. I guess you could call that killed by an enemy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Bond
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Aug 5, 2014 17:16
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Fried Chicken posted:That we have liberals bending over backwards ignoring proof to whitewash Bush because it's more convenient to blame the current target of their ire is one of the most stupefying things about the discourse under the Obama administration. There's more than enough blame to go around. Criticizing the CIA for constantly doing immoral, stupid, and counterproductive things in our name doesn't mean they have a monopoly on the practice.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:17
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:It seems Fox News, Breitbart, The Blaze have set their angle on immigrants not only being an economic menace but now a carrier of every virus and pest that exists. Is it being too optimistic in hoping that the actions from these people and the draconian immigration bill they tried to pass will backfire on them when it comes to not only the hispanic voting block but blocks from people who are disgusted by this behavior? Wake me when we start attacking those who hire and employ illegals.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:22
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Fried Chicken posted:People freak out about friendly fire these days, but compared to how it was before omnipresent radio it's levels have been reduced so much it's amazing. It's almost as if liberals are only slightly more tolerant right wingers! 
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Aug 5, 2014 17:23
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StandardVC10 posted:There's more than enough blame to go around. Criticizing the CIA for constantly doing immoral, stupid, and counterproductive things in our name doesn't mean they have a monopoly on the practice. So criticize them for the immoral stupid and counterproductive poo poo they do, not the poo poo that they were on the right side of.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:24
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:I can't watch the video now, is it just Paul and King getting shown up or is there something especially terrible in there? When Rand Paul sees them talking he hightails off to somewhere else in the middle of a sandwich bite
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Aug 5, 2014 17:26
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Badera posted:It's almost as if liberals are only slightly more tolerant right wingers! Oh it's not even slightly. But I don't feel like getting into what is terrible with the internet populism if social justice. Edges to close to call out and it's more frustrating that it is worth to get into a fight over "what one version if the ideals says" vs how things are put into practice and what the No True Scotsman fallacy is. As T Prachett said "Basically the fundamental problem with people is that they are people" Anyways, if you wants gifs of Rand Paul choking on his food when he hears those people are DREAMers and bolting from the room, john Chait has you covered http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/rand-paul-flees-in-terror-from-mexican-immigrant.html
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Aug 5, 2014 17:28
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:It seems Fox News, Breitbart, The Blaze have set their angle on immigrants not only being an economic menace but now a carrier of every virus and pest that exists. Is it being too optimistic in hoping that the actions from these people and the draconian immigration bill they tried to pass will backfire on them when it comes to not only the hispanic voting block but blocks from people who are disgusted by this behavior? It's not even worth pointing out many of those children come from better-vaccinated countries either, since south/central American countries don't have anti-vax shitheads who should be on the hook for any outbreak damages traced to them, among other reasons. Even if it were laid out in the plainest of English it would've be accepted.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:31
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:I can't watch the video now, is it just Paul and King getting shown up or is there something especially terrible in there? Paul runs away, and king acts like a creepy racist. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/dreamer-challenges-steve-kings-extremism-while-rand-paul-flees-scene also Michele Bachmann called illegal immigration a “war against the American people” and suggested that the U.S. levy a 100 percent tax on money that immigrants send back to Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala in order to put pressure on those countries’ governments. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...h.GN6V6T9I.dpuf
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Aug 5, 2014 17:31
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Fried Chicken posted:Anyways, if you wants gifs of Rand Paul choking on his food when he hears those people are DREAMers and bolting from the room, john Chait has you covered While I am enjoying the hell out of this, I don't blame him bolting when Steve King was going to open his mouth to say stupid things.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:33
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I do. If you're going to be a malignant tumor on the rear end of American society, at least have the backbone to own your lovely, regressive politics.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:38
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pengun101 posted:Paul runs away, and king acts like a creepy racist. Nothing beats this Baachman quote:"Now President Obama is trying to bring all of those foreign nationals, those illegal aliens to the country and he has said that he will put them in the foster care system," Bachmann said. "That's more kids that you can see how - we can't imagine doing this, but if you have a hospital and they are going to get millions of dollars in government grants if they can conduct medical research on somebody, and a Ward of the state can't say 'no,' a little kid can't say 'no' if they're a Ward of the state; so here you could have this institution getting millions of dollars from our government to do medical experimentation and a kid can't even say 'no.' It's sick".
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Aug 5, 2014 17:38
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Dante Logos posted:While I am enjoying the hell out of this, I don't blame him bolting when Steve King was going to open his mouth to say stupid things. It's the eyes bulging choking "oh poo poo" look on his face that makes me smile. That and his rear end ugly shirt. Come on man, light blue and peach? Those are exact opposites on the color spectrum Remember the other week how the NLRB decided that McDonalds exercises enough control over its franchises that it was deemed a co-owner rather than franchise license? McDonalds had previously used that as cover to dodge charges on controlling worker compensation, saying they had no say over that. well it turns out they were directly advising franchisees on pay levels, telling them to pay employees less I'm thinking the legal case for overturning that ruling just got a lot harder.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:40
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Fried Chicken posted:It's the eyes bulging choking "oh poo poo" look on his face that makes me smile. That and his rear end ugly shirt. Come on man, light blue and peach? Those are exact opposites on the color spectrum   Seriously it is amazing
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Aug 5, 2014 17:42
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Gotta grab my drink is the best part. Edit: Is it a beer in a coozie? Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 17:44
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Dante Logos posted:While I am enjoying the hell out of this, I don't blame him bolting when Steve King was going to open his mouth to say stupid things. It's just so he doesn't have to go on record with a solid position. Badera posted:It's almost as if liberals are only slightly more tolerant right wingers! I can't even parse this. If anything liberals have an "in context" worldview that disproves Horatio Alger myths and reverse racism nonsense. I'm always struck that 9/11 gets pinned on the CIA. They had a top down order to change their focus from terror groups to Iraq. The CIA and FBI had warning signs that were ignored by an incompetent and indifferent administration. The alphabet soup agencies got scapegoated. Conveniently "intelligence failures" meant the CIA, FBI, and NSA were given carte blanche to do what they wanted. Most of which needs undone, but there are obvious political and practical reasons they haven't been. No one wants to be on the hook for the next 9/11. For some reason, like the original poster said, even liberals are ignoring the Bush Administration's utter failure and single-minded focus on Iraq. All that does is give the intelligence agencies cover to expand their operations under a false pretext. For some reason, 8 years of Bush's dirty dealings have landed squarely in Obama's lap. Conservatives and libertarians are all-too-happy to lay blame at his feet. Bafflingly, liberals are, too, instead of focusing on the reality that this is a bipartisan affair and the agencies themselves are the real problem. Great_Gerbil fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 17:58
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Great_Gerbil posted:It's just so he doesn't have to go on record with a solid position. It's almost as if 60 years of incompetence and criminal behavior coupled with self-aggrandizing lies has removed any benefit of the doubt from the CIA.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:03
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Stultus Maximus posted:It's almost as if 60 years of incompetence and criminal behavior coupled with self-aggrandizing lies has removed any benefit of the doubt from the CIA. You aren't giving them "benefit of the doubt" when there is direct loving proof that it was the administration that dropped the ball and not them. The willful ignorance bullshit is old when the conservatives do it against their pet targets, it isn't any better when you do it for yours.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:11
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Fried Chicken posted:It's the eyes bulging choking "oh poo poo" look on his face that makes me smile. That and his rear end ugly shirt. Come on man, light blue and peach? Those are exact opposites on the color spectrum Actually, those colors work pretty well together with a dark suit and either peach or light blue tie. However, gently caress that shirt.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:17
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Fried Chicken posted:You aren't giving them "benefit of the doubt" when there is direct loving proof that it was the administration that dropped the ball and not them. Show me the direct proof that is not after the fact CIA sourced.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:18
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Great_Gerbil posted:I can't even parse this. If anything liberals have an "in context" worldview that disproves Horatio Alger myths and reverse racism nonsense. Or go and watch people who claim to be liberals and feminists rip into the "I'm so oppressed" project because Muslim women trying to reconcile their identities and encourage and support one another doesn't meet the standards of blondes with a decent bank account. Or how mental illness is still stigmatized Or how the poor people who joined the military to get out are "dogs" There is absolutely the same vein of in group/out group and internal biases in the left that there is on the right. And all that is ignoring the subset who are nothing more than bullies and thugs who figured out that if they wrap themselves in the cloak of a cause, they could be monstrous to others and have people come out to defend them.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:23
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I had to watch it muted but it almost seems like Rand started to choke on his sandwich.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:24
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:I had to watch it muted but it almost seems like Rand started to choke on his sandwich. Someone near middle of convo starts to harrass the camera person from recording the speaking but seems to eventually back off
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Aug 5, 2014 18:26
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Fried Chicken posted:There is absolutely the same vein of in group/out group and internal biases in the left that there is on the right. Leftists are human beings, therefore let me just support this false equivalence over here...
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Aug 5, 2014 18:32
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Someone near middle of convo starts to harrass the camera person from recording the speaking but seems to eventually back off This is my favorite thing from any of these videos, no contest. It always happens, too! That oh-site moment of "hey my guy is saying something damaging" compounded with the pure arrogance of telling someone not to film it, long after it's too late to try and contain it, oh my yes. Keep digging my friend.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:33
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Stultus Maximus posted:Show me the direct proof that is not after the fact CIA sourced. "Give me proof that the CIA knew Bin Laden was going to strike that doesn't come from what the CIA knew".  So not only are you being willfully ignorant to make your point, you set dishonest standards to try and prove you aren't being a poo poo. The warning memo was at the briefing on August 6th at the Crawford ranch. It is extensively documented and corroborated by multiple inquests, including by the Bush admin, who had a definite stake in blaming someone else, the democrats, who had a stake in blaming the CIA. And the independent inquest. You even had Clinton in Australia on September 10th giving a speech about how he was warned about Bin Laden but chose not to take one final shot because of the civilian damage it would have incurred. Bush was warned, and he blew it off. No matter how much you want to pretend otherwise, 9/11 is on his shoulders, and no one else.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:35
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You may have read/ignored the story I posted about the Democratic candidate for the Governor of Ohio, Ed FitzGerald, was parked in a dark area at 4:30 A.M. in 2012 with a woman who was not his wife. The police officer who talked to them found no wrongdoing at the time (no banging). Today it was revealed: 1. FitzGerald did not have a full driver's license at the time (He was about 44 years old) 2. He has not had a full driver's license in Ohio since 2002. 3. He was on his third learner's permit. This is, you know, after FitzGerald's first running mate stepped down because he had almost a million dollars in unpaid taxes and penalties. Also after all of the really silly publicity stuff like FitzGerald asking for a 'Win Tax' instead of Cuyahoga County's Sin Tax renewal. Also after him saying all records of public workers be public, except his building access log.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:37
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GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:Leftists are human beings, therefore let me just support this false equivalence over here... Yeah, pointing out reactionaries aren't exclusive to one side, complete false equivalence. You know attempts to shut down any internal criticism on that line is one of the problems of liberals being as bad as they claim conservatives are, right?
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Aug 5, 2014 18:38
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Fried Chicken posted:Yeah, pointing out reactionaries aren't exclusive to one side, complete false equivalence. Why are conservatives being mentioned in a discussion about leftist reactionaries? It's almost like you enjoy walking into rhetorical traps.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:42
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I shortened your post up for you.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:44
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Fried Chicken posted:"Give me proof that the CIA knew Bin Laden was going to strike that doesn't come from what the CIA knew". The 9/11 Commission Report put blame on both the Bush and the CIA for not taking the Al Qaeda threat seriously enough. The CIA's own report covers quote:failures to grasp the role being played by the terror mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and to assess fully the threats streaming into the C.I.A. in the summer of 2001. so how bout that willfull ignorance, you poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:45
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Can you imagine what the GOP would've done if 9/11 happened during Obama's term? Everyone basically gave the Bush administration a complete pass for 9/11. I'm not saying that we should go after Bush for 9/11, but if he ain't culpable then Obama sure as poo poo ain't culpable for Benghazi.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:48
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GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:Why are conservatives being mentioned in a discussion about leftist reactionaries? It's almost like you enjoy walking into rhetorical traps. It isn't a left / right thing. Some people use causes to hide being lovely to other people and it doesn't matter what the cause is. It's a thing people do and there are both conservative examples and leftist examples.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:48
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zoux posted:Can you imagine what the GOP would've done if 9/11 happened during Obama's term? Everyone basically gave the Bush administration a complete pass for 9/11. I'm not saying that we should go after Bush for 9/11, but if he ain't culpable then Obama sure as poo poo ain't culpable for Benghazi. All (or at least a major part) of the Benghazi poo poo was intended to kill Hillary's presidential ambition.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:50
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computer parts posted:All (or at least a major part) of the Benghazi poo poo was intended to kill Hillary's presidential ambition. Just like she killed those poor Benghazis. 
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Aug 5, 2014 18:52
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So... he didn't bang the girl? "You can be corrupt. You can lie, cheat and steal. The one thing you cannot do, the one thing you absolutely cannot do is gently caress the interns." I can't find the full quote but it went something like that.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:52
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GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:Why are conservatives being mentioned in a discussion about leftist reactionaries? It's almost like you enjoy walking into rhetorical traps. The talk was about comparing them to the right. It's almost like you enjoy shot posting rather than reading the thread
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Aug 5, 2014 18:53
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Stultus Maximus posted:The 9/11 Commission Report put blame on both the Bush and the CIA for not taking the Al Qaeda threat seriously enough. The CIA's own report covers So now you've had to jump from "the CIA knew nothing!" To "the CIA didn't do enough!" Which, as I pointed out earlier, would entail them doing things without sanction, exactly the behavior you are decrying. gently caress off which this whitewashing if Bush to try and grab the tragedy to blame the CIA for. Their record is dirty enough that you don't need to bullshit.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:57
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Another reminder: the CIA's U2 and satellite programs were absolutely fundamental in calming US policymakers the gently caress down about the 'threat' the USSR posed, and can legitimately be argued to have been a major major factor in preventing a nuclear world war. Good things people and organizations have done don't erase the bad, nor do the bad erase the good. Still, it's ridiculous to say the CIA hasn't done anything valuable. I can give lots of academic histories of espionage/intelligence on the topic if you don't believe me.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:00
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Fried Chicken posted:The talk was about comparing them to the right. It's almost like you enjoy shot posting rather than reading the thread I read the thread and the posts that pertained to the conversation.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:08
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