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You know, I keep "remembering" all these "facts" that I've read, heard, or watched somewhere relating to wood. Then I can't remember where it was that I found it, and googling does nothing for me. I know I read somewhere the theoretical lateral strength of a piece of plywood. And the theoretical compressive strength of a 2x4. The Encyclopedia of Wood says Eastern White Pine is about 2440 PSI, so 12,810 pounds, but I thought it was higher. Then I get side tracked while typing up a post, and next thing you know there's ten more things to reply to. Edit: See what I mean? Bad Munki posted:Here's another question: on that rightmost side, it's up against a wall. What do I do with the face frame if the wall isn't perfectly straight/vertical? Make the shelves fit tight, but keep them plumb. Make the face frame wide enough to cover the widest point of the gap plus a little for wiggle room, but don't attach it yet. Then hold it vertically next to the wall, and scribe it with a compass or just using your fingers and a pencil. Cut it to fit, then attach it to the shelves. One Legged Ninja fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 04:23
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Okay but what about twisting strength of various materials? 
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Dec 12, 2012 04:25
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That's more complicated to figure out, but if you attach the plywood to the back well enough, it'll still be plenty strong. Here's a good video about scribing your face frame to fit. It's not exactly what's in the video, but it works just the same.
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Dec 12, 2012 04:32
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No no, I mean like a free-stretched piece of plywood, say a 1'x8' strip, attached to a rig at each end, which turn opposite each other. What then Mr. Smartypants?? I'd somehow forgotten about just scribing the along the wall. Thanks for that. 
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Dec 12, 2012 04:40
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One Legged Ninja posted:^^^ You're right, of course. You'll be more limited by the fasteners you use than the material or thickness. Ok. That's news to me. I break out sheetgoods pretty much every day. Is it a Canadian thing then? I know for a fact that most of the stuff we get Is at LEAST a quarter inch oversize. The plastic laminate that we use is an inch oversize so that it can be applied to a full sheet. Maybe it's a grading or wholesale thing. I never buy stuff at retail suppliers, the markup is too drat high. Edit: adding an extra filler on the right side can make scribing a heck of a lot easier than actually scribing the face frame. Skinny Bins fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 04:50
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Ohhhhh, you're a canuck. Who knows, then? It may be relevant that 1.25m = 49.2 inches. Or maybe something about board-liters, I dunno.
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Dec 12, 2012 04:54
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^^^Must be a Canadian thing, then. Laminates are oversized here, and MDF, too. But when the factory cuts plywood, it's all the same, retail or wholesale. Bad Munki posted:No no, I mean like a free-stretched piece of plywood, say a 1'x8' strip, attached to a rig at each end, which turn opposite each other. What then Mr. Smartypants?? It isn't about plywood, but here you go  And here's a very general formula for which I'm not going to figure out the values of the variables 
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Dec 12, 2012 05:00
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One Legged Ninja posted:It isn't about plywood, but here you go Ugh, whatever. 
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Dec 12, 2012 05:08
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Gimme a uh, liter of cocobolo. I've been spending the last few days making some wooden d20 dice for Christmas presents. They're about 6" in diameter. Two are all walnut, two are a mixture of walnut, cherry, and oak. I have the last one to glue together yet, so I'll get some pictures when I work on that. I carved the numbers out on the first two, and filled them in with white paint. I was thinking of using an epoxy finish, but I haven't decided yet. I might try burning the numbers on one, because carving and painting is slow, and I'm not happy with my carving skills. I just had a vision of welding one up out of 1/4" steel, and having some kind of nerdy cross between UFC and dodgeball. I think I have a problem.
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Dec 12, 2012 05:39
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Bad Munki posted:If you look closely, you can see that the yellow shelves don't extend all the way to the back. That's because they're in front of a bit of wall contour. The other end of the shelves, on the far right, is in a corner of wall. So making the blue shelves shallower would mean the yellow shelves would be bordering on unusable due to being so shallow. Ok, that's what I thought. Simplest solution is to fur out the wall behind the deeper section. Basically, just add spacers behind the right side in order to maintain the depth of the left side. It's a very common thing to do in this situation and has the added bonus of allowing you to easily plumb up the wall you will be attaching the unit to. This will be useful, as your current design doesn't include a kick (though it has the space for it.) Bad Munki posted:
I agree that they won't hurt, but they are a bunch of extra work, and require a thicker piece of solid. If you make the solid slightly oversize in width, the biscuits become unnecessary for lining up, and the extra can just be taken off with a flush cut router if you have access to one. Saves a bunch of time and effort in glue up and yields excellent results. If you prefer the biscuits though, go for it. As for fitting to the wall, it's already been recommended to have an over sized edge for scribing allowance. I would also recommend making the left side gable 1/4-1/2 inch deeper than your overall planned depth to allow for a scribe on the back wall. To make it easier to scribe, it's a good idea to do a rebate on the back side so you don't have to remove so much material during installation.
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Dec 12, 2012 07:02
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Interesting to find out your sheet good sizes. Over here (Australia) the standard size for ply is 2400mm x 1200mm which according to google is 94.4882in x 47.24409in. Some old timers I've talked to say it used to be a bit bigger, 50mm extra or so but as time goes on things get smaller. Shocking!
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Dec 12, 2012 10:21
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Bad Munki posted:I did find a local mill here. Checked them out, looked at their stock, and it looked good, although limited in species (local hardwoods only: oak, maple, walnut) and at least compared to what I was used to, they were stupidly overpriced. Just out of curiosity, what were they charging per BF for the different grades of walnut? I haven't bought any walnut in ages but it seems that about 7-8 years ago (in MN) I was paying about $5.50BF FAS (or maybe it was S&B) and something like $3.25BF for #2. Regular maple was about a buck cheaper across the board and curly maple was around $6BF.
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Dec 12, 2012 12:29
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Depends on how wide and how long it is. It was all S4S that I saw they had (a sawmill, without a slab to be found) and there were price hikes at widths of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, and 12, and also at lengths of 10', 13' 6", and 14'-16'. Stock was available in 4/4, 5/4, and 8/4. There are probably other mills around here, but this pricing scheme sorta killed it for me. Here, I found their pricing sheet, although that may or may not be out of date: http://www.summit-hardwoods.com/HTML/flat.html Maybe those prices aren't generally outrageous, but when I was in Iowa, you paid by the board foot, price hikes on thickness only. Skinny Bins posted:This will be useful, as your current design doesn't include a kick (though it has the space for it.) Yeah, I just hadn't put that in the model yet. The space is there because I'm planning on including one. Partly because it should be there, and partly because I need to raise the thing over some molding along the wall. 
Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 15:46
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What is the best way to bore a shallow large, 2-3" diameter, flat-bottomed hole in a piece of wood? I have a project going where it would help to be able to sink some tin cans below flush in a plank, and the cans are all different diameters.
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Dec 12, 2012 18:17
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Forstner bits if you have a drill press and money to spend on the different sizes you need. Although there'll be a little divot in the middle of your pocket. Alternately, a plunge router and a circle jig that goes sufficiently small.
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Dec 12, 2012 18:19
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Alright so I have added runners to my stool. Some more pocket holes  And added some more screws to hold everything together  I can stand on it and it doesn't shake or wobble. Now I can sand it completely and then seal it, which should be done by the weekend. Also my next project will be a workbench because working off the garage floor sucks balls.
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Dec 12, 2012 20:03
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A workbench is my next big project, too. How much thought have you put into it? I'm back and forth between building an actual functional bench and just slapping a piece of plywood down on some sawhorses. If I go functional, I'm looking at either http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/24-hour_workbench or http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/projects/archive/2009/03/04/tom-s-torsion-box-workbench.aspx Everyone recommends that one Schwarz book on benches, but I haven't grabbed it yet. I'm afraid it will just encourage me to spend more than I need to on "right" vs "right for me."
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Dec 12, 2012 20:19
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Huxley posted:I'm afraid it will just encourage me to spend more than I need to on "right" vs "right for me."  This is my rough idea that I've put together. The legs will be 4x4x8, and the top will be butcher block. I already bought Woodriver small front vise to install. I'm still undecided if I want one long drawer in the front or two small ones, or enclose the whole thing and put in shelves. One thing for sure I know I want it solid and heavy.
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Dec 12, 2012 22:41
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CrackyMcZap posted:What is the best way to bore a shallow large, 2-3" diameter, flat-bottomed hole in a piece of wood? Other options would be a hole saw or adjustable circle cutter then chip out the waste with a chisel. Huxley posted:I'm back and forth between building an actual functional bench and just slapping a piece of plywood down on some sawhorses. I'm in the camp of a first bench doesn't need to be the be-all and end-all of benches especially if you use powertools but if using handtools then you'll want a proper bench sooner rather than later. The tentative plan is to tear out the two garage style wall benches in my shop and replace them with one Ian Kirby style bench.
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Dec 13, 2012 01:17
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I made an end-grain cutting board out of a fairly porous extremely hard exotic hardwood. Its a really dumb thing, and I knew it going in, but I love it, I just don't know the best way to foolproof any porosity issues. I've done about four very liberal applications of mineral oil (food grade) and also melted some (food grade) beeswax shavings into it, and now I just realized that a lot of woodturners will basically soak their rough turnings in various resins to essentially remove any water content and convert the wood into half cellulose half resin.. is there a remotely "cutting board safe" way of doing that? Every instinct tells me no and that I'll just have to deal with it as it is. The internet yields people baking in beeswax OR telling the offending open-pore-building-idiot to make a maple block instead. I still want to use it regardless... its wenge  Yes, I know, its dumb and I wore dust protection and got a billion splinters. Seriously, never ever use wenge. Any cutting tool leaves a poo poo finish. Handplanes, jointers, planers, table saw, all with ultrasharp blades.
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Dec 13, 2012 01:40
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Not an Anthem posted:... its wenge Enough whinging already, geesh. Starker44 posted:undecided if I want one long drawer in the front or two small ones, or enclose the whole thing and put in shelves. If you want both, I would have an open shelf atop the drawers. My small roll-around has 2 drawers and 1 cabinet but after 10 years I've realized the cabinet door sucks and I'm pulling the door and putting in 2 or 3 more drawers. My other bench has an open shelf below the top that is super handy for tucking away powertools. Point being, one open shelf above drawers will be how I build any future workbenches.
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Dec 13, 2012 04:26
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Bad Munki posted:
Good advice! Thanks. I'll be adding the 10-incher to my list. Guitarchitect posted:Just out of curiosity - why? I have paid maybe 25% of what my tools would have cost retail, and many are far more flexible than newer tools because they are belt-driven. $100 for a 9" tablesaw with a cast iron top set into a fully wired saw station with a router table, for example... I know, it's kinda hard to explain. I've NEVER bought anything used (except for a few antique guns or... well, antiques). I was raised to always buy new, and always buy quality rather than lowest price (you pay for it in the end, after all).
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Dec 13, 2012 06:39
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Effingham posted:I know, it's kinda hard to explain. I've NEVER bought anything used (except for a few antique guns or... well, antiques). I was raised to always buy new, and always buy quality rather than lowest price (you pay for it in the end, after all). Edit: you should still pay for quality, especially when buying used. A crappy used tool is just as worthless as a crappy new one.
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Dec 13, 2012 08:45
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Magnus Praeda posted:Tools (hand tools especially) can be a lot like firearms in the sense that a quality used model can be superior to some of the current offerings as long as it was well taken care of by is previous owner/s. The most expensive tool is the one you buy twice. That being said 80% of my tools are used. Really, from what I've seen, most woodworkers take really good care of their tools. I started using sketchup the other day, and so far I think it is pretty meh. But here is a TV stand that I designed. I am thinking about using half-laps for the joinery on the legs, but I dont know well it would stay together. Does anyone have some advise?  This may end up being a coffee table if I change the dimensions a little bit. I was thinking either maple or ash for the legs and walnut for the top. mds2 fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 16:44
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mds2 posted:Does anyone have some advise? I found wikipedia woodworking joints give a great list of different types of joints. Mortise and tenon joint is a traditional cabinet joint. With my limited experience I would go with half lap. Depending on your time and experience you may opt for something else. That is a great design to, I like how the arch breaks up the squareness of the table.
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Dec 13, 2012 22:41
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mds2 posted:The most expensive tool is the one you buy twice. Any recommendations on a chisel set or brand to go with. I am getting a Cranftsman 8" bench grinder and was thinking would it be cheaper to buy a chisel set or to buy blank metal pieces and grind them to a chisel and make my own handles for them. The latter option will obviously require more time, thankfully that's not something that concerns me.
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Dec 13, 2012 23:15
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Starker44 posted:Any recommendations on a chisel set or brand to go with. I am getting a Cranftsman 8" bench grinder and was thinking would it be cheaper to buy a chisel set or to buy blank metal pieces and grind them to a chisel and make my own handles for them. The latter option will obviously require more time, thankfully that's not something that concerns me. I know a guy that exclusively uses Craftsman chisels to do all his joining and it all looks amazing. He told me that he used his friends expensive German set with walnut handles and brass caps and couldn't tell the difference. His words were, "they're just hunks of metal with sharpened edges. Maybe I'll have to sharpen mine an extra three times in the next 20 years". If you know how to sharpen a chisel then even a hunk of Cultural Revolution grade iron will do you well.
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Dec 13, 2012 23:32
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Starker44 posted:I found wikipedia woodworking joints give a great list of different types of joints. Mortise and tenon joint is a traditional cabinet joint. With my limited experience I would go with half lap. Depending on your time and experience you may opt for something else. That is a great design to, I like how the arch breaks up the squareness of the table. I had considered an m&t joint but I think it would be better to do a half lap and keep the diagonals as continuous pieces. I am going to do through tenons on the ends on the diagonals, so the lower shelf would be hanging on them. I'm need to find some pretty wide 8/4 lumber.
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Dec 14, 2012 04:02
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Starker44 posted:Any recommendations on a chisel set or brand to go with. I am getting a Cranftsman 8" bench grinder and was thinking would it be cheaper to buy a chisel set or to buy blank metal pieces and grind them to a chisel and make my own handles for them. The latter option will obviously require more time, thankfully that's not something that concerns me. I really don't. I have a three piece Irwin set I bought at menards. Works pretty good, but I need to sharpen them this weekend. I really need new chisels myself.
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Dec 14, 2012 04:04
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Starker44 posted:Any recommendations on a chisel set or brand to go with. I am getting a Cranftsman 8" bench grinder and was thinking would it be cheaper to buy a chisel set or to buy blank metal pieces and grind them to a chisel and make my own handles for them. The latter option will obviously require more time, thankfully that's not something that concerns me. Speaking of old tools... If you can find a set of the original blue handle Marples they are very good chisels and rated highly in various woodworking magazine tests in their day. I have a set and they have served me well. Unfortunately they now sell for 2X or more what they originally cost. Beware the new Irwin Marples, I've read more bad than good about them. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marples-6-P...=item2ec445642f People have spoken well of the Narex chisels but I have no experience with them. For a little more money there are the Stanley Sweetheart chisels. Stanley is making an attempt to reclaim their glory days or some say it is shameless cash-in on their past. Rockler, Lee Valley and Highland are all carrying them though. For a little lot more there is Veritas and Lie-Nielsen. mds2 posted:I am thinking about using half-laps for the joinery on the legs, but I dont know well it would stay together. Does anyone have some advise? Half laps with shoulders, might be another name for it. Hopefully this is clear enough.  Click here to view the full image
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Dec 14, 2012 05:48
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wormil posted:
I am confused on how this would fit together. In other news I finished the Christmas present for my dad. I'll be happy to not build another guitar for a long while. 
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Dec 14, 2012 14:52
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mds2 posted:I am confused on how this would fit together. The pic is front and side profile of the same piece, I should have labeled them. I've seen it used before but I don't know what to call it other than a shouldered half lap. Basically a half lap where the center is thinner in width to create shoulders on the sides. It hides the joint better than a plain half lap and gives a little more support against gravity. In other news, I stopped by the Capital City Lumber to pick up some padauk, years ago they sold me a piece of random hardwood for a few dollars and I always thought it was zebrawood, today I learned it is ebony. Back then, the piece had shown up in a pallet of some other wood and not knowing what it was, someone had stuck in a trash can. It is/was about 4" x 6', I always knew I scored but never knew how much until today, it's an $88 piece of wood. 
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Dec 14, 2012 21:22
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Blistex posted:If you know how to sharpen a chisel then even a hunk of Cultural Revolution grade iron will do you well. Chisels use different metals, have different profiles, handles made of different things. You need to get chisels to suit what you use them for. Mortising, paring, carving, framing, whatever. I have the narex bench chisels and they're great but you need to sharpen them when you get them. FWW rated them top value and they matched the 2-300$ chisel sets on the market for steel composition, edge retention, etc. They make mortise chisels now too. I think Highland sells them. I've used lovely chisels before and unless you get lucky they're worthless. They're not even close to flat, sides aren't perpendicular, etc, all things that will hurt your end product in wood. The narex are good values.
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Dec 14, 2012 23:30
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I was using a cheap chisel on a jobsite this week, cutting some green hemlock. I hit a knot and it bent the tip of the chisel over. I took the good set the next day. Cheap chisels are only good for cutting things that you know you shouldn't cut, and not really even good for that. I agree that you really have to get lucky to end up with good, inexpensive ones.
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Dec 15, 2012 00:34
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So you guys really shook my confidence on the size of sheet goods the other day. I could have sworn I was right... I checked a couple samples from my shop yesterday, and almost all the sheet goods we had were at least 48 1/2", and some were up to 49". Pretty much every thing was 96 1/2" in length though. The only explanation that I got was that quality veneered plywoods come over size because they are meant to be cut and the factory edges are garbage. The only stuff that comes in at exactly 4x8 is stuff used in construction, because they use whole sheets at a time and the edge quality isn't very important. I didn't know this was a local thing.
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Dec 15, 2012 02:35
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 guys, wanted to show everyone some of the stuff I've been cranking out lately.I spend close to a year building one of them new-fangled CNC contraptions to do all the actual woodworking for me so I can steal all the glory. I've had the machine running for two months now and here are some of the pieces worth showing: Here are some salt cellars cut from rough walnut chunks found at the local lumber yard.  A cutting board for my father-in-law made from maple. I put a butcher block finish on it but it's hard to tell from the photo.  I call this the Circle Mirror. A co-worker snatched this up for her newborn grandson's room as a Christmas present.  And finally an homage to Ron Swanson (Nick Offerman). Someone on Deviant Art did an excellent job creating this and I shamelessly ripped it off to cutout and print for my own personal delight. Nick is a pretty accomplished woodworker apparently http://offermanwoodshop.com/ and it looks cool hanging behind the machine. 
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Dec 16, 2012 04:58
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So I've been working on my living space, specifically the kitchen here, and put this together today ad-hoc using 2x4s and 2x8s. It has 8 inch shelves, hooks for pots and planters for herbs. I needed the vertical 2x4s because the lovely walls here don't have proper framing... just furring strips behind the panels. The 2x4s got screwed directly into the furring strips through the panels. Did I make any big mistakes I'm going to regret in a few months?
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Dec 17, 2012 01:04
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johnnyonetime posted:
I like those salt cellars, tell us more about this CNC you built. I've been thinking about building one for the last year or so. I really have no space for a large unit and I think I'd want a 4x4 at least so that's why I mostly think about it instead of building one.
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Dec 17, 2012 02:10
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A flying piece of posted:So I've been working on my living space, specifically the kitchen here, and put this together today ad-hoc using 2x4s and 2x8s. It has 8 inch shelves, hooks for pots and planters for herbs. I needed the vertical 2x4s because the lovely walls here don't have proper framing... just furring strips behind the panels. The 2x4s got screwed directly into the furring strips through the panels. Did I make any big mistakes I'm going to regret in a few months? As long as you're happy with the way it looks and functions, I'm sure it'll be fine. If you were concerned about it coming off the wall, like tipping forward, you could put a couple toggle bolts in, they're usually rated for around 100lbs a piece. So I ended up altering my shelves to fit on 3 sheets of ply. Spent the day in the shop, and got those three sheets rendered down to a stack of panels and a pile of sawdust. Everything's all cut out, dados are in, it's all sanded, and basically ready to put together, except for the face frame. Question: assemble then apply finish, or apply finish then assemble? I'm just thinking about when it comes time to attach the face frame, and it seems like it'd give the best finish if one were to apply after assembly, but it'd also be a heck of a lot easier to apply any finishes beforehand. Not gonna stain it, just a couple light coats of poly to seal it up.
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Dec 17, 2012 02:35
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So I've been taking woodworking courses at the local community college and here's what I made in my last class: Bench in rock maple using loose tenon joinery:  The through tenons supporting the seat are mahogany with walnut wedges. You can't see it in the pic but the spline between the seat halves is mahogany too (I had some scraps to use up).  Behind the bench you can see the side table I made out of rock maple with bird's eye accents (with bonus cat which is why there's stuff pile on the top):  The dovetails (made with an adjustable jig and router) turned out real nice:  And the drawer fit is good (I had a little tear out with the bird's eye tho'  ), I also haven't attached the top yet.: I'm kinda spoiled with these classes those; we have a whole shop filled with meticulously maintained Powermatic equipment. I've been kinda intimidated to do much on my own, I don't even have a table saw yet.
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Dec 17, 2012 03:16
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