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berzerkmonkey posted:Yeah, but wasn't he stealing and growing body parts to replace his failing bits? Yeah but that's what all old people do when their bodies start falling apart due to age. Dunno, that book was really bad so I'm happy with just pretending it never existed, too.
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Oct 3, 2013 18:28
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Having taken about a four year hiatus from Warhammer novels, I find myself reading Soul Hunter. The thing that stands out most to me is how similarly Talos stands with regards to chaos as Zso Sahaal. Lord of the Night was one of my first 40k books and the fact that the lore stays similar is great. As I said, I am still working through the book, but I can't help but hope of a meetup later on in the series between the two protagonists. Other than that, I also read Pariah. The setting through me off pretty heavily at first, but the more I read the more I came to enjoy it. It has a great taste of what is to come in the future conflict between the two inquisitors. What I also enjoyed about it was the characterization of the various traitor marines that fall in and out of the novel. Each had a distinct attitude and flavor, which provided insight that I don't recall being around as often back when I first started reading these books.
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Oct 3, 2013 18:40
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I really liked in Pariah how in the end the mansion was a gateway into Chaos / the Warp . I guess it is kind of a cliched idea but I thought Abnett handled it well and imaginatively.
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Oct 3, 2013 18:42
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I'm halfway through 'Fulgrim' and so far I don't really like it. No characters have any real traits other than "this guy will probably go evil, this other one won't". And if you did a word count on the word "perfection", I think the results may break five digits. It's an obvious, joyless slog. I'm not expecting amazing subtlety in my future space knight fiction, but it doesn't hurt to elevate the subject a bit. ADB managed to make Angron tragic and somewhat noble and a pack of remorseless genocidal psychos relatable. Sandy Mitchell brought some levity into the grimdarkness for contrast. Fulgrim has a depth that an ant could cross without getting its knees wet.
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Oct 3, 2013 22:55
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For all the praise it gets, I couldn't get through Fulgrim. Half-way through then dropped.
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Oct 3, 2013 23:05
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The problem with Fulgrim is that everyone is a prick and those who aren't, don't last long. Even Horus was saddened and horrified with how Fulgrim turned out in the end. Part of the bad taste with that book is keeping me from reading Angel Exterminatus, which should be an improvement in many counts. Sahaal is also mentioned in the Night Lords trilogy. It's a nice callback.
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Oct 4, 2013 00:30
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http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/THE_HORUS_HERESY_BOOK_TWO_-_MASSACRE.html Book 2, with more stuff. Street is October 18th
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Oct 4, 2013 00:58
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Unremembered Empire is out now on BL's site! edit: and by that I mean the download for the eBook is live. Quills fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 01:19
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Waroduce posted:My understanding was Thunder Warrior > Custode > Space Marine by a significant margin. I find that kind of silly. A later iteration of the same thing is weaker?
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Oct 4, 2013 03:10
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Neurosis posted:I find that kind of silly. A later iteration of the same thing is weaker? Generally, yes. It happens when you optimize things for mass production. It's true for about everything else, from computers to cars.
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Oct 4, 2013 03:49
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Waroduce posted:My understanding was Thunder Warrior > Custode > Space Marine by a significant margin.
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Oct 4, 2013 03:58
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Fried Chicken posted:Generally, yes. It happens when you optimize things for mass production. It's true for about everything else, from computers to cars.
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Oct 4, 2013 07:53
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It's also touched on in First Heretic that the marines are designed to work better as teams. The Word Bearers are watching the custodes kicking rear end and comment on them fighting "wrong" because they fight as individuals. The thunder warriors were created to be the biggest, baddest, dirty barbarian horde to conquer a ravaged world. The marines were an army designed to unify a galaxy (and were suposed to have twenty super generals to lead them).
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Oct 4, 2013 09:13
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The order given in First Heretic I think is Primarch > Custodes > Regular Space Marine, and that order is because of the purity of the Emperor's gene seed, I think. But I'm not sure where the Thunder Warriors would fit into that, and then there's also the issue of the Primarchs being partly manufactured by the warp -- so is this at all true of the Thunder Warriors? What about Custodes? Why do they never go heretic?
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Oct 4, 2013 11:49
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DirtyRobot posted:The order given in First Heretic I think is Primarch > Custodes > Regular Space Marine, and that order is because of the purity of the Emperor's gene seed, I think. But I'm not sure where the Thunder Warriors would fit into that, and then there's also the issue of the Primarchs being partly manufactured by the warp -- so is this at all true of the Thunder Warriors? What about Custodes? Why do they never go heretic? It's not about gene seed. Afaik only the Space Marines even have a gene seed. All it is is an extra organ that has the genes necessary that the space marine will need for his adapted body and to use all the extra functions. Both the Primarchs and the Custodes are engineered individually, taking a much longer process than Space Marines.
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Oct 4, 2013 12:28
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Dravs posted:It's not about gene seed. Afaik only the Space Marines even have a gene seed. All it is is an extra organ that has the genes necessary that the space marine will need for his adapted body and to use all the extra functions. Both the Primarchs and the Custodes are engineered individually, taking a much longer process than Space Marines. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he meant something like genetic heritage. the Astartes get their genetic information from their respective Primarchs, but the Custodes and Grey Knights receive their genetic heritage from the Emperor. That is what is supposed to make them superior/incorruptible. TheStampede fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 13:07
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Bear in mind that the Thunder Warriors didn't wear power armour of the same sort. Space Marines have a much better interface with their suit than others do via the Black Carapace, so it might be a total inversion of effectiveness once the suit goes on.
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Oct 4, 2013 13:54
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TheStampede posted:I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he meant something like genetic heritage. the Astartes get their genetic information from their respective Primarchs, but the Custodes and Grey Knights receive their genetic heritage from the Emperor. That is what is supposed to make them superior/incorruptible. Yeah I didn't mean the physical organ. (But obviously that's what I said and I'm dumb and blah blah blah.)
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Oct 4, 2013 14:01
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TheStampede posted:I'm going to go out on a limb and guess he meant something like genetic heritage. the Astartes get their genetic information from their respective Primarchs, but the Custodes and Grey Knights receive their genetic heritage from the Emperor. That is what is supposed to make them superior/incorruptible. Wrong on the Grey Knights part. According to the Horus Heresy books (especially Flight of the Eisenstein), they're loyalist Death Guard, although the 40k-era Grey Knights likely believe otherwise.
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Oct 4, 2013 14:54
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Cythereal posted:Wrong on the Grey Knights part. According to the Horus Heresy books (especially Flight of the Eisenstein), they're loyalist Death Guard, although the 40k-era Grey Knights likely believe otherwise. Wrong again, I'm afraid. They're members of all the legions, especially traitor legions that never went renegade.
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Oct 4, 2013 14:58
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VanSandman posted:Wrong again, I'm afraid. They're members of all the legions, especially traitor legions that never went renegade. Yeah, I'd have to imagine that the "Emperor's geneseed" thing is a convenient misdirection due to the fact that "Mortarion and Angron's geneseed" doesn't look too good on a resume.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:00
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In "The Emperor's Gift" Hyperion makes it very clear what he believes the Gift to be. Would you chalk that up to being an unreliable narrator?
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Oct 4, 2013 15:09
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Yeah, I'd have to imagine that the "Emperor's geneseed" thing is a convenient misdirection due to the fact that "Mortarion and Angron's geneseed" doesn't look too good on a resume. Or the source will change. The founders aren't psykers after all, so we know of at least one major change coming to the Grey Knights.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:11
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Yeah, I'd have to imagine that the "Emperor's geneseed" thing is a convenient misdirection due to the fact that "Mortarion and Angron's geneseed" doesn't look too good on a resume. The emperor was the one who created and controlled all the gene-seed, thus all gene seed is the emperor's gene-seed.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:12
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Cream_Filling posted:The emperor was the one who created and controlled all the gene-seed, thus all gene seed is the emperor's gene-seed. Yeah, but it's not his direct gene seed, and arguable a bit diluted due to generational gaps. Also, seeing as the Primarchs were probably created with some help from the Warp, they might be compromised compared to his pure genes. Cythereal posted:Wrong on the Grey Knights part. According to the Horus Heresy books (especially Flight of the Eisenstein), they're loyalist Death Guard, although the 40k-era Grey Knights likely believe otherwise. I'm not following this. Are you saying the Grey Knights are descendants of the Death Guard? I'm basing my information off of "The Emperor's Gift", where I seem to recall it being established there. Maybe it was just conjecture though. Edit. Let me clarify. I'm aware of where the Grey Knight order originated, but I believe they are created using genetic stock from the emperor, not the Lion's. TheStampede fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 15:29
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My money's still on Malcador being essentially the 'Primarch' of the modern Grey Knights.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:36
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TheStampede posted:Yeah, but it's not his direct gene seed, and arguable a bit diluted due to generational gaps. Also, seeing as the Primarchs were probably created with some help from the Warp, they might be compromised compared to his pure genes. Except the Emperor is a human with super psychic powers, not a surgically altered human with various genetically engineered implants inside. It makes no sense that his genes were literally used to create the implants when they're cultured biotech organs with a non-human genome independent of the host, that reproduces separately though the progenoids. You're getting caught up in a literalist reading when the people you're talking about are not at all literalists and do not see the world in a modern, rationalist way.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:44
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Cream_Filling posted:Except the Emperor is a human with super psychic powers, not a surgically altered human with various genetically engineered implants inside. It makes no sense that his genes were literally used to create the implants when they're cultured biotech organs with a non-human genome independent of the host, that reproduces separately though the progenoids. The Emperor isn't just a Dude with super psychic powers (that's Malcador), he's some kind of psychic ultra gestalt more or less encased in some kind of body (but nobody is sure what he really looks like). The primarchs are created from his genetic (and I guess psychic?) stock, which is why they all embody different aspects of their dad. There's basically no doubt about this, literalist interpretation or whatever aside. The emperor is to the primarchs as the primarchs are to the space marines.
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Oct 4, 2013 15:53
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TheStampede posted:Yeah, but it's not his direct gene seed, and arguable a bit diluted due to generational gaps. Also, seeing as the Primarchs were probably created with some help from the Warp, they might be compromised compared to his pure genes. I think pretty much Hyperion in The Emperor's Gift is just wrong, because it's been 10,000 years of misinformation and propaganda. The Grey Knights are based on whichever random loyalist marines became the first Grey Knights (Garro et al.) and/or some other conspiracy theory (Malcador, apparently, I guess because he's the one directing Garro and everything, and probably had some other ideas that went into place before his sacrifice). hopterque posted:The Emperor isn't just a Dude with super psychic powers (that's Malcador), he's some kind of psychic ultra gestalt more or less encased in some kind of body (but nobody is sure what he really looks like). I like the idea from the early fluff somewhere that he's like 10 guys or something that decided to become one new, super psychic gestalt being. In Betrayer, some librarians temporarily do this in order to contact Angron which may or may not support said theory. DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 16:06
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hopterque posted:The Emperor isn't just a Dude with super psychic powers (that's Malcador), he's some kind of psychic ultra gestalt more or less encased in some kind of body (but nobody is sure what he really looks like). Genes do not work that way. Magic psychic powers, sure, but not genes.
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Oct 4, 2013 16:13
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Cream_Filling posted:Genes do not work that way. Magic psychic powers, sure, but not genes. IRL, yes, genes don't work that way. However, this is 40k, a place where genes can draw an 8-pointed star and summon a greater demon of Lamarck.
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Oct 4, 2013 16:17
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Guys (given how 40k is marketed, are there any women that post here at all?) I think we're getting a bit silly about our pew pew spacemans tabletop game stories.
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Oct 4, 2013 16:19
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VanSandman posted:I think we're getting a bit silly about our pew pew spacemans tabletop game stories. Actually, people are getting serious about pew pew spacemans tabletop game stories. My post was an attempt to go back to being silly. 
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Oct 4, 2013 16:22
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Cream_Filling posted:Except the Emperor is a human with super psychic powers, not a surgically altered human with various genetically engineered implants inside. It makes no sense that his genes were literally used to create the implants when they're cultured biotech organs with a non-human genome independent of the host, that reproduces separately though the progenoids. I don't see how being (super)human precludes his genetics from being a viable blueprint for other (super)humans. They could theoretically just be basing the Grey Knights genetic information of of his. My understanding of the gene-seed is that it alters the biology of the host to allow acceptance of the rest of the Astartes modifications, which I would assume (I'm no geneticist) is done with some type of gene therapy. Atlest, that's what I found when looking it up on Lexicanum. Anyways, take the big E's genes, pump them into a human along with some 40k tech and, voila! incorruptible super Aatartes. And If we're not taking things literally and applying modern understanding, it seems even easier to throw our hands up and just say, "Eh, magic Emperor juice" as to what makes the Grey Knights so special (plus psycic powers and holy, ordained equipment). VanSandman posted:Guys (given how 40k is marketed, are there any women that post here at all?) I think we're getting a bit silly about our pew pew spacemans tabletop game stories. Well then what am I supposed to do at work all day, my job? Psh. TheStampede fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 16:25
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Cream_Filling posted:Genes do not work that way. Magic psychic powers, sure, but not genes. Uh, but what about magic psychic super genes? Considering they can add some organs to a teenager and turn them into enormous super men with various unique characteristics means obviously something else is going on there. On a serious note we're talking about the genetic material of a god here, who knows what that poo poo can do.
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Oct 4, 2013 16:50
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I thought the Grey Knights were born from their forerunner, the Knights-Errant?
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Oct 4, 2013 17:34
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So the Space Wolves series is actually pretty solid. The prose is workmanlike and straightforward, but after The Inquisition War that's rather refreshing. Oddly, I didn't notice that they changed authors at book 5. I was really hoping for more out of book 4, Wolfblade, but I suppose in a space marine book you want more shooty and less plots and conspiracies. I say read 'em.
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Oct 4, 2013 18:37
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The Emperors Gift really does lay it out pretty explicitly. The grey knights are made from the emperors gene seed. Bringing up the lost primarchs. I haven't seen discussion about what happened to one of them. Basically a few books hint at Russ having to take one out for whatever reason. In Angel Exterminatus Perturabo talks about some crazy test that the emperor has them go through on terra(I forget what it is called, phone posting from work so can't check) and suggests one of the primarchs don't make it through it. There the only two solid clues that don't rely on chaos scheming as far as I know Big Willy Style fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Oct 4, 2013 |
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Oct 4, 2013 19:19
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VanSandman posted:Guys (given how 40k is marketed, are there any women that post here at all?) I think we're getting a bit silly about our pew pew spacemans tabletop game stories. I don't know how many women post here but there were loads of them at Games Day UK last weekend. Thankfully The Hobby™ isn't quite the smegmatic sausage fest it once was.
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Oct 4, 2013 20:47
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Big Willy Style posted:The Emperors Gift really does lay it out pretty explicitly. The grey knights are made from the emperors gene seed. I'm only 2 chapters into Unremembered Empire but it has some suggestions about the Emperor's plan and the Primarchs as well.
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Oct 4, 2013 20:57
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