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Borneo Jimmy posted:Man people really love to compare goods rationing to genocide in this thread. They aren't practicing rationing in Venezuela.
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Apr 26, 2015 07:05
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Problem>More Crazy Required has been a theme of "revolutionary governments" of this ilk since 1917, though. It makes me wonder if this is just following the ol' October Revolution Playbook, or if there's a more local explanation. The October Revolution was followed by a particularly bloody civil War, and then rebuilding under the NEP, ie if anything a turn towards moderation. Lenin ultimately lead by consensus, even if it was only in the framework of the party. Stalin counts but the Soviet Union doesn't start and end with Stalinism. Nintendo Kid posted:They aren't practicing rationing in Venezuela. They have talked about it. Ultimately they are in a supply crunch, either they raise price controls, ration or current situation continues with shortages. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 08:28
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Doubling down on the crazy is associated more with Mao, I thought.
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Apr 26, 2015 13:53
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Nintendo Kid posted:They aren't practicing rationing in Venezuela. Ardennes posted:They have talked about it. Ultimately they are in a supply crunch, either they raise price controls,ration or current situation continues with shortages. If by "rationing" you mean "controlling the distribution of goods to artificially lower demand", then there is definitely rationing in Venezuela. As Labradoodle pointed out earlier, he can only go shopping on certain days of the week depending on the last digit of his national identification card. For example, as this article says, "if it ends in a zero or a one then you can stand in line on Monday." There's also the Sistema de Abastecimiento Seguro, the fingerprint scanning stations that were supposed to be installed at every cash register in state-run supermarkets to make sure weren't buying too much of any thing. This system was announced late last year, and it was supposed to have been installed throughout the country by the end of year. I know that the system did not roll out as originally scheduled, but this article seems to suggest that it's up and running as of April 1. The private sector has also been forced to ration. It's not uncommon at all to see signs posted in supermarkets and pharmacies limiting people to Y amount of X product per week. Back in October, Farmatodo (the country's largest pharmacy chain) began rationing products. Here's the list they posted in their stores, rationing everything from condoms to toothpaste to napkins: 
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Apr 26, 2015 15:42
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Ardennes posted:The October Revolution was followed by a particularly bloody civil War, and then rebuilding under the NEP, ie if anything a turn towards moderation. Lenin ultimately lead by consensus, even if it was only in the framework of the party. Stalin counts but the Soviet Union doesn't start and end with Stalinism. That's the thing, they've talked about it, but they haven't bothered to actually implement it which would help. Chuck Boone posted:If by "rationing" you mean "controlling the distribution of goods to artificially lower demand", then there is definitely rationing in Venezuela. The thing is that that isn't actually rationing, it's inconvenience. When I think effective rationing I think no exceptions except medical, "no one may have more than X amount of Y, enforced by ration document (or in today's case, some manner of electronic card system)". And you certainly wouldn't limit it to just publicly owned stores at that, you'd require every store to participate or be declared illegal. Like the US or Britain during World War II, not like stuff that's effectively what a toy store does if a particular toy is hot for Christmas that year.
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Apr 26, 2015 18:57
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Nintendo Kid posted:The thing is that that isn't actually rationing, it's inconvenience. When I think effective rationing I think no exceptions except medical, "no one may have more than X amount of Y, enforced by ration document (or in today's case, some manner of electronic card system)". And you certainly wouldn't limit it to just publicly owned stores at that, you'd require every store to participate or be declared illegal. Given venezuela's strict currency controls, importing goods outside the state apparatus is incredibly expensive. So you're sort of correct, in Venezuela there's no rationing for the rich. The poor, on the other hand, have no choice but to submit to the voluntary fingerprint scanning rationing scheme.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:11
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Nintendo Kid posted:The thing is that that isn't actually rationing, it's inconvenience. When I think effective rationing I think no exceptions except medical, "no one may have more than X amount of Y, enforced by ration document (or in today's case, some manner of electronic card system)". And you certainly wouldn't limit it to just publicly owned stores at that, you'd require every store to participate or be declared illegal. I understand the distinction you're making. I see now that what Venezuela is experiencing is different from what you call "effective rationing" (like the libreta de abastecimiento in Cuba?). When the fingerprint scanning system was announced last year, the government said that it would only apply to state-owned supermarkets, but then they said that every point of sale in the country would be required to comply with the system. The system, to reiterate, ties purchases to your fingerprint (or ID card), and limits how much of a certain product you're able to buy. To correct my previous post, it looks like [url=http://www.abastosbicentenario.gob.ve/index.php/noticias/267-inicia-el-registro-biometrico-del-sistema-de-abastecimiento-seguro-en-territorio-nacionalinicia-el-registro-biometrico-del-sistema-de-abastecimiento-seguro-en-territorio-nacional=registration for the system is what started to take place on April 1st[/url], not a roll-out of a ready system.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:14
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Nintendo Kid posted:They aren't practicing rationing in Venezuela. It's 2010 all over again!
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Apr 28, 2015 21:36
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A couple of weeks ago an electrical engineer was charged with "intention to destabilize" for publicly saying we were on the brink of another electrical crisis. I'm guessing he won't be getting those charges dropped or an official apology.
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Apr 28, 2015 21:52
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Labradoodle posted:A couple of weeks ago an electrical engineer was charged with "intention to destabilize" for publicly saying we were on the brink of another electrical crisis. I'm guessing he won't be getting those charges dropped or an official apology. There was a 2 hour black out in my house today
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Apr 28, 2015 22:36
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El Hefe posted:There was a 2 hour black out in my house today Did you call the police?
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Apr 28, 2015 22:39
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Sorry misread
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Apr 28, 2015 22:39
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Labradoodle posted:A couple of weeks ago an electrical engineer was charged with "intention to destabilize" for publicly saying we were on the brink of another electrical crisis. I'm guessing he won't be getting those charges dropped or an official apology. I also like how Minister of Electrical Energy Jesse Chacon said on the day he took office, "If in 100 days we haven't achieved anything, I'll resign." That was in April of 2013. EDIT: This is what Chacon told the private sector today: quote:We're going to take measures against the biggest private consumers: malls, hotels, and big consumers. To any industry that uses electricity, we urge you to self-generate. You can generate your own electricity with your own plantas [literally "plants", as in power plants; but he likely meant "generators"] so that you can help with the country's situation. So the Minister of Electrical Energy's plan to solve the country's electrical problems is to ask people to generate their own electricity. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 22:46
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If gasoline is still basically free and no one needs to worry about global warming since the country is going to collapse into anarchy before the next presidential election, then I'm surprised that any business in Venezuela doesn't do this already.
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Apr 29, 2015 01:18
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M. Discordia posted:If gasoline is still basically free and no one needs to worry about global warming since the country is going to collapse into anarchy before the next presidential election, then I'm surprised that any business in Venezuela doesn't do this already. Only the biggest private universities and some of the biggest business can afford a power generator, the vast majority can't afford it, they'd rather close for the 2 or so hours a day that power goes out than spend so much money on a generator.
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Apr 29, 2015 02:53
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PerpetualSelf posted:As opposed to what exactly? So you think that the Venezuelan government is comparable to Hitler, and that using economic shock therapy is somehow justified. You know, the thing that turned the former soviet union's economies from a bit poo poo into full blown humanitarian crisis twice as severe as the great depression, while allowing the preexisting ruling class to become massively rich in the process. Well then.
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Apr 29, 2015 07:23
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Chuck Boone posted:I also like how Minister of Electrical Energy Jesse Chacon said on the day he took office, "If in 100 days we haven't achieved anything, I'll resign." That was in April of 2013. This sort of rhetoric is somewhat familiar in the history of post-independence African nations. What you see resulting is the collapse of the electric grid and the slow slide towards failed state status over the course of a decade. The correct policy would be to eliminate subsidies on air conditioning and stimulate the pricate sector by rationing air conditioning to public theatres, malls, and the like, rather the home environment. That way, you preserve a national power grid. This way? This way you dismantle it, what little of it there is. HorseLord posted:So you think that the Venezuelan government is comparable to Hitler, and that using economic shock therapy is somehow justified. You know, the thing that turned the former soviet union's economies from a bit poo poo into full blown humanitarian crisis twice as severe as the great depression, while allowing the preexisting ruling class to become massively rich in the process. Hitler? Not at all, Venezuela is a small nation without a manufacturing base. Maduro is much more like Idi Amin than Hitler.
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Apr 29, 2015 10:13
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M. Discordia posted:If gasoline is still basically free and no one needs to worry about global warming since the country is going to collapse into anarchy before the next presidential election, then I'm surprised that any business in Venezuela doesn't do this already. A bit of an explanation behind this, gasoline is subsidized but it is illegal for you to take it in a jerry can and store it. it is illegal in fact to use it for anything but personal use. Any legitimate business has to go through some really annoying loopholes to get hold of enough gasoline to run a generator. besides, the biggest generators run on Diesel. as far as I'm aware of, only private clinics have big generators, big enough to continue operations when the entire power grid is down, and probably some of the bigger transnational companies have some too, but most of the office buildings I've been to lack auxiliary generators. (for now) I still live in Venezuela and I have done so for the past 21 years, ama.
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May 7, 2015 13:38
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fnox posted:A bit of an explanation behind this, gasoline is subsidized but it is illegal for you to take it in a jerry can and store it. it is illegal in fact to use it for anything but personal use. Any legitimate business has to go through some really annoying loopholes to get hold of enough gasoline to run a generator. besides, the biggest generators run on Diesel. How's the CIA's dental plan?
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May 7, 2015 14:26
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http://www.infobae.com/2015/05/09/1727714-nicolas-maduro-la-cadena-russia-today-es-mas-poderosa-que-mil-misiles-nucleares "Nicolas Maduro: Russia Today is stronger than a thousand nuclear missiles"
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May 10, 2015 02:12
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It seems one of Diosdado Cabello's drug planes crashed into the sea after being pursued by Col. Air Force. lol
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May 24, 2015 07:58
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Tony_Montana posted:It seems one of Diosdado Cabello's drug planes crashed into the sea after being pursued by Col. Air Force. lol I haven't heard anything about this, but the Wall Street Journal published an article earlier this week in which it claims that the United States is actively investigating a number of high-level government and military officials on suspicion of being involved in the drug trade. The article is behind a paywall, so here's a BBC article summarizing it. The Wall Street Journal article said that what has happened is that U.S. pressure on the Colombian drug trade forced dealers to look west for new routes, and there they found welcoming Venezuelan officials, including Diosdado Cabello, the country's second-in-command. This isn't the first time that Cabello has been accused of being involved in the drug trade. Back in December, a former bodyguard to both Chavez and Cabello, Leamsy Salazar, defected through Madrid and is now believed to be in the United States collaborating with law enforcement officials on a case against Cabello. Salazar told a Spanish journal that Cabello was the head of a drug cartel called El Cartel de los Soles. On a different (but possibly related) case, Hugo Carvajal - the former head of military intelligence - was detained in Aruba last year on a U.S. arrest warrant on a drug trafficking case. He had been appointed as consul to the island and was there to start his duties. Venezuela threatened up a storm and Aruba eventually released him before he could be transferred to U.S. custody.
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May 24, 2015 20:53
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The "Bolivarian Revolution" was a sham engineered by a small circle of drug traffickers to enrich their Swiss bank accounts, and the international left fell for it for 17 years. Lol, good job guys.
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May 25, 2015 02:20
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So I hear things are actually getting worse in Venezuela..(as if that's even possible)
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May 27, 2015 02:33
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PerpetualSelf posted:So I hear things are actually getting worse in Venezuela..(as if that's even possible) It's difficult to summarize a whole month but aside from the narcotraffic accusations Chuck mentioned, here's the bullet points: - Diosdado Cabello is suing the newspapers that reprinted the news about the narcotraffic allegations because, well, because he can. - There was a massive law enforcement operation to "take back" a slum in Maracay that involved almost two thousand police officers in a prolonged firefight against several gangs that ended up with several dead, including two minors and hundreds detained, the conflict began when the police killed some members of a gang, which led some other members to murder a few police officers with grenades (there's a huge spike in grenade use by criminal gangs). This neighborhood was what is known as a "Peace zone", which basically means an area where the police cannot enter at all since they're supposedly self-administrated, in reality they're basically gang havens. - Daniel Ceballo was illegally transferred to another penitentiary from the Ramo Verde military prison last week, his family and lawyers weren't notified until it was done and his lawyers were allowed to see him just today for 15 minutes. He's been on a hunger strike since Friday and hasn't been given intravenous fluids, he's had nothing but water since (more on this on the next point). - Lopez and Ceballo began a hunger strike last week, as Leopoldo managed to record a video and have it smuggled out of prison. In the video he says they're going on strike until the electoral council announces a date for the Parliamentary elections and the rest of the political prisoners are released. He also called for a massive manifestation on this Saturday to support these requests. The MUD will not be supporting his manifestation because they're useless. - The black market exchange rate took a massive hit last week and went from ~340BsF per $ to ~$430 over the course of two days, which caused everybody to panic, right now it's back at around ~$340BsF. - A magistrate was caught in fraganti accompanying a drug dealer out of a major airport and was promptly released without an investigation that same night. - There have been a few lynchyngs of thieves in Caracas. Three by my count and I have no idea about the rest of the country, in one case a group of hundreds of neighbors participated after three kids mugged a lady with a baby and almost beat the teens to death.
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May 27, 2015 03:13
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Chuck Boone posted:There's also the Sistema de Abastecimiento Seguro, the fingerprint scanning stations that were supposed to be installed at every cash register in state-run supermarkets to make sure weren't buying too much of any thing. This system was announced late last year, and it was supposed to have been installed throughout the country by the end of year. I know that the system did not roll out as originally scheduled, but this article seems to suggest that it's up and running as of April 1. Does this help with the shortage problem at all?
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May 27, 2015 12:09
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M. Discordia posted:Truly we have to listen to the mass voice of the Venezuelan people, and that is why the 78% of Venezuelans who currently want Maduro out of office are all fascist CIA plants. Discordia what happened to your Nintendo avatar... I barely recognize you.
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May 27, 2015 13:41
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punk rebel ecks posted:Does this help with the shortage problem at all? No, it's a paliative measure. The government can't fix the shortage problems because to do so it would have to dismantle the huge corruption network around the exchange rates, which is their main method of clientelism, and would raise the prices of subsidized products as well, losing them even more popularity.
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May 27, 2015 15:54
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Labradoodle posted:No, it's a paliative measure. The government can't fix the shortage problems because to do so it would have to dismantle the huge corruption network around the exchange rates, which is their main method of clientelism, and would raise the prices of subsidized products as well, losing them even more popularity. I read this as it "improves" things by tackling the symptoms but not really the core of the problem.
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May 27, 2015 18:24
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Have they fixed a specific date yet for the next parliamentary election? Last I saw, they were scheduled for this December.
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May 28, 2015 15:26
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Phlegmish posted:Have they fixed a specific date yet for the next parliamentary election? Last I saw, they were scheduled for this December. Nothing yet, they're trying to pressure the electoral council to pick an official date, the consensus now is that they're stalling as long as possible since the government is losing by a good margin on every single poll. On other news, today the Central University of Venezuela is protesting because the government has decided to that they will directly assign all spots for future students, lack of budget and low salaries for professors. The police isn't allowing them to exit the premises in order to walk the route of the protest as usual but the alarming thing is that they're outright saying they have direct orders from Maduro not to allow any further protests in Caracas. He'll probably pussy out of it, as he does with everything else, but it's troubling all the same that he thinks he can just do that poo poo. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 17:50 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 17:46
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Additional notice: today some friends of friends were detained while leaving the country by the National Guard and forced to poo poo on bags because according to the guards they fit the profile of traffickers, so if you're planning to visit, I guess you might want to eat lots of fiber.
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May 29, 2015 01:16
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Labradoodle posted:Additional notice: today some friends of friends were detained while leaving the country by the National Guard and forced to poo poo on bags because according to the guards they fit the profile of traffickers, so if you're planning to visit, I guess you might want to eat lots of fiber.  I have to wonder how they got officers who'd agree to examine poo poo. (I mean, okay, I know how, but...) Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 02:45 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 02:40
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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/robert-morgenthau-on-iran-venezuela-ties-2015-5quote:Morgenthau’s assessment goes along with recent reports by journalists in Brazil, as well as the findings of slain Argentine prosecutor Alberto Nisman. Nisman died mysteriously in January after over a decade of work investigating the 1994 bombing of a Jewish center in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people. When he was found shot to the head in his apartment, he was about to present his findings, which showed that the Argentine government was attempting to hide Iran’s involvement in the bombing. Not looking good for US-Venezuela relations.
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May 29, 2015 03:01
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Weimar Germany, take 2
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May 29, 2015 04:44
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M. Discordia posted:http://www.businessinsider.com.au/robert-morgenthau-on-iran-venezuela-ties-2015-5  It's literally the plot of a Die Hard movie. MullardEL34 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 23:05
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quote:That was in 2007, and in that same meeting, say Venezuelan defectors, Chavez and Ahmadinejad negotiated a flight between Caracas, Damascus and Tehran known as Aeroterror — it was (and perhaps is) a flight that requires a government clearance, and carries more drugs and money than people.  Also lol at that article seriously citing Iran-Contra vet Roger Noreiga Borneo Jimmy fucked around with this message at 02:50 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 02:46
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Borneo's Back, Baby! Venezuela No-Elections Thread- I guess every Revolution needs it's marching powder. Constant Hamprince fucked around with this message at 04:04 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 03:53
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There were demonstrations yesterday in several cities across the country. Leopoldo Lopez called from them in a video he recorded last week. There was some controversy earlier this week because the Mesa de la Unidad Democratica (MUD), the largest opposition bloc, said that they wouldn't be able to participate in the demonstrations officially due to "logistical" reasons. There was some indignation from opposition supporters about this perceived lack of cohesion and solidarity. Still, the demonstrations drew crowds. Here are some shots from Caracas:   Freddy Guevara (left), the national coordinator of the Voluntad Popular party (left) and David Smolansky (right), the mayor of El Hatillo. Both are vocal opposition figures:  This picture is from Guacara, Carabobo state:  As Labradoodle said, the situation regarding Daniel Ceballos continues to draw quite a bit of attention due to the fact that it appears as if he's being denied visits. His wife was just recently able to see him for about 15 minutes, and she was accompanied by one of his lawyers. His wife said that Daniel is only allowed 15 minutes twice a week with his lawyers. Also, Henrique Capriles and Enzo Scarano tried to visit him yesterday, but were denied access to the prison. Capriles said that a prison official told them that Daniel has to submit a list of people who are going to visit him in writing to prison authorities before they are allowed to see him. Diosdado Cabello is suing Spain's ABC and the Wall Street Journal for publishing the stories alleging that he is one of the heads (or the head) of a drug trafficking operation. Both the National Assembly and the head of the Tribunal Supremo de Justicia (the supreme court) have come out in support of Cabello, calling him a hero. All of this is taking place, as Labradoodle pointed out, within the context of a parliamentary election that is supposed to happen this year, but is completely up in the air as the Consejo Nacional Electoral simply refuses to officially announce them for no reason other than it serves the government's interests to delay them as long as possible.
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May 31, 2015 16:43
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Regarding those allegations of drug trafficking http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11399 quote:Facts About the Media Garbage Against Diosdado Cabello
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May 31, 2015 17:38
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