|
The Lone Badger posted:What can't we replace in the soil? Nitrogen and phosphates are easy, is it trace minerals getting depleted? Apparently if you poo poo lime and fertilizers all over an oxisol it's usable but that's hardly the cheap solution Venezuela needs right now.
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 14:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 18:11 |
|
|
organizing international food aid is the cheap solution
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 14:46
|
|
|
Grouchio posted:So what would kill the deadlock and start up the civil war, would you say? Civil war probably isn't a useful term, since it's unlikely there will be regional separatism or an ethnic or sectarian conflict. Basically either elements of the military will have to act, or people will have to flood Caracas and risk being fired on as they march on the government. The thing is that since the opposition declined to confront the government, the lovely situation is well on the way to being normalized. People lose hope and just give up believing that things can be fixed after a while if nobody offers them solutions. As we saw in Tunisia though, an unpredictable shock can wake people up, and events on the ground can move very quickly at that point. Or people can just endure misery for far longer than anyone outside the situation would expect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 14:47
|
|
|
Feinne posted:Apparently if you poo poo lime and fertilizers all over an oxisol it's usable but that's hardly the cheap solution Venezuela needs right now. Yeah if they could afford the first-time and ongoing soil treatment needed to turn that soil productive for crops that humans or at least livestock could eat, they'd have plenty of money to afford importing food and medicine in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 14:57
|
|
|
Two developments from yesterday:
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 15:27
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:As we saw in Tunisia though, an unpredictable shock can wake people up, and events on the ground can move very quickly at that point. Or people can just endure misery for far longer than anyone outside the situation would expect. Tunisia in 2009 was in an enviable position compared to Venezuela today. It was safe to walk around almost anywhere in the country except near the Algerian border, "only" the handicapped were rummaging through trash for food, the average salary was 20x higher than Venezuela's, the secret police "only" beat journalists and political activists in secret prisons instead of starving them to death in secret prisons, and there was enough goddamn paper in the country that you could actually get a passport in order to legally escape. But I guess vegetable sellers aren't going to set themselves on fire in Venezuela, since they're in the upper half of society (i.e. those not starving to death). I can understand why there was not much unrest earlier — those who are dedicated enough could leave the country if they so choose, but now I just don't get it at all. Even the bread protests from the last round of incompetent government theft seem to have completely petered out, and I doubt it's because any of those bakeries reopened.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2017 15:28
|
|
|
The Supreme Court issued a ruling last night in which it gave itself all of the National Assembly's powers and the right to exercise them in its stead until further notice. The decision came through a ruling on a case that asked the question, "Can the President create a certain kind of company?". Reading between the lines, it looks like the President did not have the power to create this type of corporate entity, because that power belonged to the National Assembly. In ruling that the President did in fact have the power to create those companies now, the Supreme Court also ruled: quote:4.4. We point out that while the contempt and invalidity of the National Assembly continues, this Constitutional Chamber* guarantees that all parliamentary powers will be exercised by this Chamber or by any body that it determines, in order to ensure the rule of law. The first thing to note about the decision is that it will be in effect "while the contempt and invalidity of the National Assembly continues". We can read this to mean "until we say so, which will probably never happen". The Supreme Court ruled in September that the National Assembly was in contempt of an earlier ruling because it swore-in three deputies from Amazonas state that the Court had banned from joining the legislature. In order to remove itself from the state of contempt, the National Assembly accepted the resignation of all of the deputies in question and formally removed them from parliament. The Supreme Court did not accept that as the condition to remove the legislature from the state of contempt. It's is clear that the Supreme Court will continue to consider the Assembly to be in contempt regardless of what it does. The second thing to note is that the decision gives the Court the power to assign "all parliamentary powers to "any body that it determines", which creates the possibility for Maduro or another individual/group of individuals to become the legislature. This is not terribly likely to happen any time soon, I think, because the Supreme Court is 100% in the pocket of the PSUV. Still, the Court gave itself a little wiggle room there to make this determination later. History is a strange thing because it eases itself into our memories slowly, day-to-day, but we read about it in giant leaps. I think that when they write the book on Maduro's Venezuela, there will be a chapter called "The Birth of a Dictatorship", and this ruling will have its own little section there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 12:41
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:History is a strange thing because it eases itself into our memories slowly, day-to-day, but we read about it in giant leaps. I think that when they write the book on Maduro's Venezuela, there will be a chapter called "The Birth of a Dictatorship", and this ruling will have its own little section there. This would be chapter 112 if anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 13:52
|
|
|
It seems like the plan for the government is to wait till oil prices are back up?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 13:58
|
|
|
Hugoon Chavez posted:This would be chapter 112 if anything. Baloogan posted:It seems like the plan for the government is to wait till oil prices are back up? I think that it's just as likely that we won't see elections again, or that if we do they'll be in the North Korean style. The regime is putting political parties in the country through an absurd status renewal process that is so onerous that only four out of the 24 parties that have undergone it so far are likely to have completed it successfully. We won't know the official results of the process until at least May, but it's looking like the regime is working to eliminate most of the political parties in the country. There is absolutely no doubt that the regime would lose any election held today (local, state or national), and there is absolutely no doubt that the regime will not allow elections to take place as long as that is true. Higher oil prices may help make the regime more popular, but it's not a given. If it just so happens that the regime never becomes popular enough to win an election again, then there simply will not be elections. That, or they'll be patently rigged from the start.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
Mi más sentido pésame for all venezuelans. Dictatorships suck. I hope he gets deposed soon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
This is batfuck kookoo. Hey you know all those representatives you elected democratically? We don't like them so, no. Now open your mouth for more steaming piles of poo poo from food paid for with money stolen from you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
The dissolution of the venezuelan parliament is headline news here in Perú, our foreign relations office has made a statement condeming it as a breach of constitutional rule, made a call to activate the OAS democratic charter, and has recalled our embassador indeffinetly, interesting times are ahead in foreign policy. In a sadder note our socialist congress party* has deplored this "constitutionally limitating act" and said that it will make a peaceful solution to venezuelan problems harder; this is as critics as they have ever been of the venezuelan crisis/dictatorship. *Which of course has linned it's pockets with venezuelan and brazilian money. http://elcomercio.pe/politica/gobierno/ppk-america-latina-democratica-inaceptable-lo-venezuela-noticia-1980184?flsm=1 http://elcomercio.pe/politica/congr...ambien&e=titulo Edit: Grammar and links (in spanish). zocio fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Mar 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
In hindsight Venezuela became a dictatorship when the Supreme Court ruled the National Assembly in contempt. Everything since has just been the confirmation that all democratic norms had been abrogated.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
It's about time the nations of Latin America realize that whatever short term gains they may get from cooperating with the Venezuelan government won't be worth having a major refugee crisis a couple of years down the line.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2017 21:37
|
|
|
If I was Maduro I would make a deal with international aid donors in which their donations of food, medicine, and other goods would be permitted so long as the dispensation of the goods could be done under the auspices of the regime. I mean, something has got to give here but I don't know if any aid organization would agree to that. Their pigheaded determination to refuse to admit to the massive problems is really hurting them in the end and bringing negative attention internationally. Like, there would be a lot less focus on this blatant dictatorial takeover if the people of the country weren't starving and dying for lack of food and medicine. Also, in a lot of those videos I notice SE Asia-like haze. Do the big cities in Venezuaela suffer from a lot of pollution? I know back in the boom days everyone was buying huge SUVs and driving them around all loving day just for the hell of it because gas was so cheap This regime rivals the Trump administration for incompetence, surpasses them in corruption and pigheadedness, and unfortunately the civil, democratic, and judicial institutions are so much weaker than in the U.S. that this is the result. A free press, an independent judiciary, and a constituion-obeying military could've prevented this disaster but those institutions were so weakened by Chavez that they didn't have a chance. This is all Chavez' loving fault and I wished he had lived long enough to see what he's done. Not surprising a clown like Maduro was his choice for successor, either. Most likely chosen because he was stupid and pliable and not a threat to Chavez in any way and now that he's actually in charge, wow. Populist retards seem to be making a big comeback these days, and everyone else's willingness to fall into line and play into this bullshit due to money or ideology are loving evil.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 00:39
|
|
|
Munin posted:In hindsight Venezuela became a dictatorship when the Supreme Court ruled the National Assembly in contempt. Everything since has just been the confirmation that all democratic norms had been abrogated. That was definitely a milestone but I don't think there's one single moment you can point to. It has been a steady, determined process in the making for decades and just became more overt recently.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 00:40
|
|
|
Here is a quick rundown on some of the response to the ruling from today. National Assembly president Julio Borges called the ruling "garbage" and said that it was a "coup d'etat in every sense of the term". He said: quote:This ruling gives Nicolas Maduro the power to do whatever he wants. This is a dictatorship. quote:We hope that the people will accompany us. We know that there is fear and repression, but the time has come to take as stand. Venezuela is hungry for food, justice and liberty. quote:The best thing that we can do as deputies is to continue to go to the Assembly to exercise our duties. We can’t retreat. Moreover, we will continue to assist all international organizations by denouncing these irregularities. quote:This is not just another sentence. This sentence marks a point of no return for the dictatorship and demands that all of us – the people, civil society organizations, political parties and above all else deputies – begin a new process of mobilization and democratic resistance to face this attack and recover lost ground. Miranda state governor Henrique Capriles called on the Organization of American States to hold an emergency session on the developments. His call was followed shortly thereafter by a statement from OAS, part of which reads: quote:The Secretary General of the Organization of American States (OAS), Luis Almagro, denounces the auto-golpe [roughly, “self-inflicted coup d’etat”] perpetrated by the Venezuelan regime against the National Assembly, the last remaining branch of government that had legitimacy through vote.
Things to watch for in the next few days: 1) Will there be a return to massive, nation-wide demonstrations? 2) Will the OAS react to the ruling by invoking Article 21 of the Democratic Charter and suspending Venezuela? (And perhaps for further down the line) 3) Will Maduro crack down on the remnants of the National Assembly by dissolving it and/or arresting deputies?
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:It seems like the plan for the government is to wait till oil prices are back up? I wish them the best of luck with this well thought out plan. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Mar 31, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 03:38
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:Things to watch for in the next few days: 1) Will there be a return to massive, nation-wide demonstrations? 2) Will the OAS react to the ruling by invoking Article 21 of the Democratic Charter and suspending Venezuela? (And perhaps for further down the line) 3) Will Maduro crack down on the remnants of the National Assembly by dissolving it and/or arresting deputies? I really hope I'm wrong, but (1) Definitely not. (2) Unlikely; they will censure Venezuela instead. (3) Probably not, but maybe one or two of the pluckiest among them as an example. Especially for (1), does anyone in Venezuela actually care at all about the national assembly or the breakdown in constitutional order? Those are great talking points for people living in other countries, but if you're digging up poisonous tubers to make into a thin gruel or waiting in line 8 hours a day every day, I doubt you'd care much Edit: Actually I wonder, historically, have there ever been any mass-populace-driven revolutions against the ruling governments during times of severe food scarcity? It seems like the starving people always lose (Biafra, Ukraine, China) or revolt a few years later after the situation has normalized (Derg, Khmer Rouge). Granted, those examples were all way worse than Venezuela is in today, which is terrifying to think about. Saladman fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Mar 31, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 07:51
|
|
|
Saladman posted:I really hope I'm wrong, but (1) Definitely not. (2) Unlikely; they will censure Venezuela instead. (3) Probably not, but maybe one or two of the pluckiest among them as an example. On the other hand, I think there are a lot of people just waiting for a good reason to protest or a clear sign the opposition isn't going to gently caress things up this time. Last time they planned a real massive protest (back in September-October) the turnout was massive enough to shut down half the city. Then they sent all those people home after a little walking and a lot of grandstanding, which obviously pissed off all the people who made their way to Caracas from throughout the country. I'm not sure the opposition can pull that off again considering how little people trust them now, but I'm sure something will spark protests again at some point in the near future, even if it isn't them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 15:40
|
|
|
Labradoodle posted:On the other hand, I think there are a lot of people just waiting for a good reason to protest or a clear sign the opposition isn't going to gently caress things up this time. Last time they planned a real massive protest (back in September-October) the turnout was massive enough to shut down half the city. Then they sent all those people home after a little walking and a lot of grandstanding, which obviously pissed off all the people who made their way to Caracas from throughout the country. Yeah, that protest was pretty well attended, and given how much the opposition hosed it up and given how the government had absolutely 0 reaction, I know that personally, I would have given up all hope for years at that point, I guess until / if Leopoldo Lopez ever gets out of jail. But, hopefully the average Venezuelan is more resilient than I am as far as that goes. VVV Whoa. I wonder how long it takes until she's arrested for having grenades and AK-47s in her car. Saladman fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Mar 31, 2017 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, breaking news https://twitter.com/oliverandresfz/status/847825021925982208 Luisa Ortega Diaz, Attorney General and loyal to the revolution for years has come out saying there was a break in the constitutional order. This is the closest we have ever gotten to an admission that there is a dictatorship in Venezuela from within the government.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 16:18
|
|
|
Does that specify who she thinks is breaking the constitution? If not, I highly suspect that it's - in a plot twist surprising absolutely nobody - the National Assembly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 16:52
|
|
|
She's saying that the Supreme Court's decisions (to remove parliamentary immunity and to usurp the powers of the National Assembly) have broken the constitutional order of the country (read: have turned Venezuela into a dictatorship). It's hard to overstate what a huge development this is. Imagine Jeff Sessions holding a press conference and saying that the piss tape is real and that the Russians stole the election through Donald Trump. Luisa Ortega Diaz is most definitely complicit in the dictatorship and she's done horrendous things during her tenure, and I hope she faces justice for what she has done. I don't know where this announcement is coming from, but I suspect it's not out of her own good will. I think she's either trying to save her neck because she's getting cold feet, or she's "taking a stand" to give the illusion that there are independent powers in Venezuela.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 17:01
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:She's saying that the Supreme Court's decisions (to remove parliamentary immunity and to usurp the powers of the National Assembly) have broken the constitutional order of the country (read: have turned Venezuela into a dictatorship). Seeing how convenient the timing is considering there is an OAS session today and a Mercosur session tomorrow, which now greatly benefit from having someone from the actual government saying there was a break in the constitutional order, I would say this isn't a false flag. I think they're jumping off the sinking ship while they still can.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 17:32
|
|
|
fnox posted:Seeing how convenient the timing is considering there is an OAS session today and a Mercosur session tomorrow, which now greatly benefit from having someone from the actual government saying there was a break in the constitutional order, I would say this isn't a false flag. I think they're jumping off the sinking ship while they still can. If that's the case, presumably it means someone did some math and figured there's nothing left to loot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
Or that being privy to internal information means she knows that somehow the situation is WORSE than we know, which is kind of holy poo poo to even consider.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 18:55
|
|
|
Feinne posted:Or that being privy to internal information means she knows that somehow the situation is WORSE than we know, which is kind of holy poo poo to even consider. I think it is worse than we know, they wouldn't have done a self-coup if it weren't necessary. I think Maduro did it to avoid a default, despite being directly at odds with people within the government as it would imply an open dictatorship.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
Maduro just called for a meeting of the National Defense Council tonight to resolve the "impasse" between the Public Ministry and the Supreme Court. As per Article 323 of the constitution, the National Defense Council is tasked with "planning and advising... as to matters relating to the overall defense of the nation, its sovereignty, and the integrity of its geographical space". In theory, the National Defense Council can be used in situations such as these were there is an existential crisis afoot in government. Maduro also stressed that he didn't know about either the Supreme Court decisions this week or what Luisa Ortega Diaz said earlier. If this National Defense Council does meet tonight, there's a chance that either Supreme Court chief magistrate Maikel Moreno or AG Luisa Ortega Diaz will get thrown under the bus. The cynical side of me thinks that Maduro will side with Diaz and somehow seek an anulment of the two Supreme Court decisions from this week (or at least only the one usurping powers from the National Assembly). That way, Maduro would get to play the role of the hero who saved Venezuelan democracy from the jaws of... himself. He would also be knocking the wind out of the Organization of American States' push to take concrete action on Venezuela, Mercosur's meeting tomorrow, and the rest of the international community members who have been crying "dictatorship!". I just also want to remind everyone that the chief magistrate of the Supreme Court spent time in prison for two unrelated homicides in the 1980s.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:The cynical side of me thinks that Maduro will side with Diaz and somehow seek an anulment of the two Supreme Court decisions from this week (or at least only the one usurping powers from the National Assembly). That way, Maduro would get to play the role of the hero who saved Venezuelan democracy from the jaws of... himself. He would also be knocking the wind out of the Organization of American States' push to take concrete action on Venezuela, Mercosur's meeting tomorrow, and the rest of the international community members who have been crying "dictatorship!". That would be one of the first properly clever thing he would have done whilst in power. I just do not think him capable of it. Surprises have been happening though. Munin fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Apr 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 01:22
|
|
|
Yeah right, he's going to double down on usurping power.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 03:26
|
|
|
Sun Wu Kampf posted:Yeah right, he's going to double down on usurping power. Nope! The person who said it was a false flag to show Venezuelas separation of powers and Maduro'd benevolence wins the round this time. The VP asked the supreme court to consider reversing it's decision, I'm sure because deep down he really believes in an independent opposition legislature. I saw a lot of right wing people thinking that Trump is playing 3D chess when he's actually just an idiot, but it looks like Maduro and his cabal are seriously good at what they do. Unfortunately for Venezuela and fortunately for the US (regarding Trump).
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 09:53
|
|
|
I don't think it's as simple as him saying "yeah lets reverse it", if all, it demonstrates that his posture is even weaker and that his support within the government is waning. Even if he were to reverse it, he can't actually do it using the constitutional article he summoned (article 323) as that requires the president of the National Assembly Julio Borges and the Attorney General Luisa Ortega Diaz to be present in the Security Council. So whatever action he takes is still illegal and will still alienate groups within the government, and I doubt some of them are going to wait until everything gets resolved before they make their move to save their asses. The truth is, this is the weakest that Maduro has ever been. All it takes is coordinated action, and he can be gone, legitimately. His government has never faced as much international pressure as he has had to endure in the past 2 days. EDIT: Lmao so the TSJ removed the parts that remove parliamentary immunity and disband the National Assembly from their ruling fnox fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Apr 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 11:26
|
|
|
I think we all give Maduro way too much credit. He's obviously just a useful idiot, he does what he's told and tries his best to balance keeping all the factions in the PSUV happy, but the only reason they haven't gotten rid of him yet is because there's no elegant way to do so without having to deal with presidential elections. Same goes for this mess with Luisa Ortega Diaz. She probably has enough dirt on everyone high up that she decided just to make a statement to save her own rear end just in case, knowing they wouldn't be able to go after her. After all, the logical thing would've been to back down as they did without anyone making a statement that would add fuel to the fire. The sad thing is, I think this might've been the kick in the pants the opposition needed to stop daydreaming about primaries and elections, and start focusing on the present, but now they'll probably go back to twiddling their thumbs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 16:33
|
|
|
If anyone in the opposition was serious about becoming president, I think they're probably aware that whoever actually leads people to Miraflores is going to become the next president, without anyone else having anything close to a chance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
fnox posted:If anyone in the opposition was serious about becoming president, I think they're probably aware that whoever actually leads people to Miraflores is going to become the next president, without anyone else having anything close to a chance. alternatively, they'll get their rear end thrown in prison for the next decade
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:alternatively, they'll get their rear end thrown in prison for the next decade Why not go for gold? Mandela was in prison for 36 years...
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2017 06:55
|
|
|
So why is the opposition so bad? Do they have much experience in governing or were they always played the part of the little guy? Any historical baggage of some sort?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2017 08:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 18:11 |
|
|
Members of the opposition that arent bad get "dealt with" until only the baddies remain
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2017 13:11
|
|
