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More seriously, Jadia is not following a script. At each moment she is simple doing what she thinks is best, knowing what she will do and how it will turn out. It's not that she doesn't have a choice in what she says or does, she does - it's just that being who she is, and knowing what she knows, she can see the choice she will make. Just like a parent who knows, absolutely, that if it came to it they would sacrifice themselves to save their child - except Jadia knows that about every choice she will make and is 100% right about it. So to that end, Jadia isnt lying, but not because she's omniscient. She isn't lying because she's not the sort of person who would in this situation. A compulsive liar or trickster in her situation would be just as determined in their path, but their path would involve a whole lot of whoppers being told. But Jadis doesn't seem the point of lying, as near as we can tell, and so doesn't - it's not that she can't, maybe there are plenty of hypothetical ituations where she might choose to, but none of them matter because they won't be happening.
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Nov 7, 2023 03:09
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GlyphGryph posted:More seriously, Jadia is not following a script. At each moment she is simple doing what she thinks is best, knowing what she will do and how it will turn out. It's not that she doesn't have a choice in what she says or does, she does - it's just that being who she is, and knowing what she knows, she can see the choice she will make. Just like a parent who knows, absolutely, that if it came to it they would sacrifice themselves to save their child - except Jadia knows that about every choice she will make and is 100% right about it. Have you considered, my good buddy, that perhaps Jadis tells the truth sometimes, and lies other times because that's what she does?
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Nov 7, 2023 03:28
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Jadis' behavior isn't acausal or arbitrary, just kind of confoundingly recursive. Everything she does is in the script, but the script doesn't have her doing anything contrary to her character. Jadis is resigned to who she is. She'll never change, and she knows she'll never change, no matter how sad and hurt she knows she'll feel about never changing. That's an important part of the metaphor of being immobile inside a block of glass. If you want to know whether she's lying, you've got to ask: who is Jadis? Is she a liar? You know who's a liar in this world? YISUN. None of the demiurges are Royal, but Jadis is the furthest from it. She doesn't believe herself capable of Wanting anything, and of all beings in the universe she's the least able to kindly ignore the futility of existence. She is convinced that the universe is absolutely true, and has resigned herself utterly to that truth. YISUN would lie; Jadis would never defy the truth that broke her.
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Nov 7, 2023 04:18
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Bongo Bill posted:Jadis' behavior isn't acausal or arbitrary, just kind of confoundingly recursive. Everything she does is in the script, but the script doesn't have her doing anything contrary to her character. I can't stop pushing the boulder because what am I without the boulder?
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Nov 7, 2023 06:23
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I agree with a few previous statements that it doesn't seem in Jadis' character to lie like a trickster, but I could totally see it being in her character to lie like when a parent tells their child that their pet dog went upstate to live with their uncle on his farm, and totally didn't die. Especially if she knew that was what she was "supposed to do" and it's for the best.
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Nov 7, 2023 06:58
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Someone who can come across an injured person and devise that whole goofy scenario where she plays doctor instead of a mummy in a cube/mouthpiece for infinity definitely has all the faculties needed to lie but like Oxxidation said she'll never lie about a prophecy *in the comic* because there's no functional difference between a bit character with virtually no internality lying and them simply being wrong, if Jadis could just be making poo poo up any time she says anything her omniscience is kinda moot and all her scenes might as well just be Mottom again or something, just some rando who patches Allison up and goes "things are pretty hosed eh". We've had that, this is the Word Of God that things are objectively, incontrovertibly pretty hosed up and it doesn't work if God is known to spout bullshit sometimes
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 14:56
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:it doesn't work if God is known to spout bullshit sometimes idk in my experience all God spouts is bullshit
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Nov 7, 2023 16:41
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Bongo Bill posted:Jadis is resigned to who she is. She'll never change, and she knows she'll never change, no matter how sad and hurt she knows she'll feel about never changing. That's an important part of the metaphor of being immobile inside a block of glass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndsME9Vd4es
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Nov 7, 2023 17:38
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lol that show has some hilarious characters
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Nov 7, 2023 21:12
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Someone who can come across an injured person and devise that whole goofy scenario where she plays doctor instead of a mummy in a cube/mouthpiece for infinity definitely has all the faculties needed to lie but like Oxxidation said she'll never lie about a prophecy *in the comic* because there's no functional difference between a bit character with virtually no internality lying and them simply being wrong, if Jadis could just be making poo poo up any time she says anything her omniscience is kinda moot and all her scenes might as well just be Mottom again or something, just some rando who patches Allison up and goes "things are pretty hosed eh". We've had that, this is the Word Of God that things are objectively, incontrovertibly pretty hosed up and it doesn't work if God is known to spout bullshit sometimes  if you count on any character within any story to tell you the reader any objective truths about that story
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Nov 7, 2023 22:17
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The real answer is that Jadis isn't lying because that would be the boring solution to Allison's challenges. But then again Jagganoth was supposed to be no poo poo invincible until Maya came up with One Weird Trick so who knows anymore. 
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Nov 7, 2023 22:41
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Jagganoth's power is that he is already dead. His death lives not just inside of him, but all around him. For him, killing is easier than breathing, easier than sweating. The angel nails are extra, he has been dead for a very long time. The maybe sword is useless against someone who can assert they are alive.
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Nov 7, 2023 23:02
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YaketySass posted:The real answer is that Jadis isn't lying because that would be the boring solution to Allison's challenges. words cannot express how disappointed I will be if Maya's one weird trick actually works on him
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Nov 7, 2023 23:50
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:words cannot express how disappointed I will be if Maya's one weird trick actually works on him I don't think Allison can beat him at violence. He's the violence man. She might beat him at being unkillable though. So Jagganoth might be the one who has to deal with the novel experience (for him) of dealing with an opponent he cannot kill.
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Nov 7, 2023 23:58
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I'm sure the Maybe Sword will become pivotally important at some point, but I strongly doubt it's going to be Jagganoth that gets the Big Cut.
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Nov 8, 2023 06:04
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Youremother posted:I'm sure the Maybe Sword will become pivotally important at some point, but I strongly doubt it's going to be Jagganoth that gets the Big Cut. "Wow guys, it was close but we managed to defeat Jagganoth without resorting to violence. I brought a cake, just in case to celebrate...oh no! I didn't pack a knife!"
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Nov 8, 2023 06:16
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YaketySass posted:But then again Jagganoth was supposed to be no poo poo invincible until Maya came up with One Weird Trick so who knows anymore. We've never seen Jagganoth get Maybe Sworded so idk where you're getting that it actually 100% works to chop him into for reals deadsies.
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Nov 8, 2023 06:17
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Youremother posted:I'm sure the Maybe Sword will become pivotally important at some point, but I strongly doubt it's going to be Jagganoth that gets the Big Cut. it'll be metatron
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Nov 8, 2023 06:31
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Yeah it's definitely going to be Metatron
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Nov 8, 2023 06:42
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Surgically cut the angel feathers embedded in Jagganoth's flesh by maybe-swording right through him. He is invulnerable, the feathers perhaps not.
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Nov 8, 2023 06:46
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I wonder if Allison could get her own feathers from Metatron. If Zoss can bully the names of God out of Metatron, you'd think some feathers would be fair game
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Nov 8, 2023 06:54
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If you're invulnerable unless someone is smart enough to pull out the nails that make you invulnerable then you're not invulnerable, you're a videogame boss with a weak spot.
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Nov 8, 2023 07:33
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Mr. Lobe posted:I wonder if Allison could get her own feathers from Metatron. If Zoss can bully the names of God out of Metatron, you'd think some feathers would be fair game Getting feathers from a truly alien entity, in the perfect void outside normal reality, might go something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUe-HcdEnzo At least the first shot of liquor
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Nov 8, 2023 08:14
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Given how Allison rolls these days she’d just kinda laugh, pluck out a handful, then realize they’re loving useless anyway before throwing them in Jagg’s face or something.
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Nov 8, 2023 09:14
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Still holding out for White Chain to forcefully reincarnate all the prime angels in the void into whatever she is.
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Nov 8, 2023 09:16
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the maybe sword kills people who aren't sufficiently self-determined to live, my bet is that it doesn't kill jagganoth but cuts away his desire to destroy everything because allison manages to instill a sliver of doubt in him about it being the only solution i am not just saying that just because i'm hoping for a later jagganoth beach episode in the same way we're getting a solomon gone fishing episode, but i won't deny that it's a contributing factor
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Nov 8, 2023 09:23
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shirts and skins posted:
what about the wheel itself
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Nov 8, 2023 09:26
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Pardot posted:what about the wheel itself Can't spin the wheel if there is no wheel (taps head)
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Nov 8, 2023 09:59
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:jagganoth beach episode K6BD swimsuit issue when?
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Nov 8, 2023 10:26
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Elissimpark posted:K6BD swimsuit issue when?
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Nov 8, 2023 11:09
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:the maybe sword kills people who aren't sufficiently self-determined to live, my bet is that it doesn't kill jagganoth but cuts away his desire to destroy everything because allison manages to instill a sliver of doubt in him about it being the only solution Ok but he can't know how to relax at a beach so he needs to be head down in the surf but otherwise fine trying to figure it out.
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Nov 8, 2023 13:03
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:the maybe sword kills people who aren't sufficiently self-determined to live, my bet is that it doesn't kill jagganoth but cuts away his desire to destroy everything because allison manages to instill a sliver of doubt in him about it being the only solution
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Nov 8, 2023 13:23
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Elissimpark posted:"Wow guys, it was close but we managed to defeat Jagganoth without resorting to violence. I brought a cake, just in case to celebrate...oh no! I didn't pack a knife!" The Conquering King is here with the Maybe Sword to answer... is Jagganoth cake?
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Nov 8, 2023 15:26
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Allison is too stupid to die. Jaggonath is already dead. Neither will be killed by the Maybe sword. Although its use may prompt Jaggs to talk again, like at the end of Pirates of the Caribbean. "So what now, Jack Sparrow? Are we to be two immortals locked in an epic battle until Judgment Day and trumpets sound? Hmm?"
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Nov 8, 2023 15:58
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She can cut off his head (which won't stop him from talking) and take it to have a chat with Metatron about the future of the universe
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Nov 8, 2023 16:28
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:If Jagg says "yes, I'm alive", then he is no longer the dead man he is now, so it's a win. If he doesn't, he gets Cut, so it's also a win. The Double-Edged Maybe Sword. This is an extremely elegant solution and I like it a lot.
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Nov 8, 2023 17:03
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:If Jagg says "yes, I'm alive", then he is no longer the dead man he is now, so it's a win. If he doesn't, he gets Cut, so it's also a win. The Double-Edged Maybe Sword. Okay I'm making a note here because this is such a good theory if this happens I want you to be appropriately rewarded with praises Youremother fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Nov 8, 2023 |
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Nov 8, 2023 17:24
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It'll be Allison and Jagganoth sharing a bottle of whiskey while they slowly freeze to death in the snow as Throne burns behind them.
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Nov 8, 2023 19:32
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ConfusedUs posted:Allison is too stupid to die. Jaggonath is already dead. Neither will be killed by the Maybe sword. Although its use may prompt Jaggs to talk again, like at the end of Pirates of the Caribbean. Death poetry rap battle until the end of time. Which somehow doesn't conflict with the whole 30+ years left to live thing.
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Nov 8, 2023 21:56
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JuniperCake posted:Death poetry rap battle until the end of time. Which somehow doesn't conflict with the whole 30+ years left to live thing.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:09
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