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Kemper Boyd posted:Know who would benefit enormously? The Wahhabites who the Saudis fund. Defunding mainstream islam is like the best way to give fundamentalists a real shot in the arm. What DarkCrawler said, but can you explain to me what "mainstream islam" is? Sunni? Shia? Whatever that weird dancing fetish thing is? Or maybe one of the sub-sub-sub cults in any of those?
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Jul 20, 2016 14:10
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DarkCrawler posted:I would assume that "stopping tolerating religious bullshit" would involve not letting Saudi preachers or Saudi funds in Yeah, that'll stop internet preachers based in another country from spreading their propaganda in Finland.
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Jul 20, 2016 14:53
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Darkest Auer posted:What DarkCrawler said, but can you explain to me what "mainstream islam" is? Sunni? Shia? Whatever that weird dancing fetish thing is? Or maybe one of the sub-sub-sub cults in any of those? The Average Matti Muslim practice in Finland regardless of denomination, i.e. visit mosque from time to time, do the prayer thing five times a day.
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Jul 20, 2016 15:04
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Kemper Boyd posted:The Average Matti Muslim practice in Finland regardless of denomination, i.e. visit mosque from time to time, do the prayer thing five times a day. What about your average Matti Muslim when you take into account the wandering hordes of refugees that came to Finland in the last year or so? Anyway, arranging your life based on arbitrary prayer times every day is pretty insane, especially since god apparently didn't know about latitudes and how the sun works so you have to follow Mecca time or whatever.
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Jul 20, 2016 15:20
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Darkest Auer posted:What about your average Matti Muslim when you take into account the wandering hordes of refugees that came to Finland in the last year or so? Anyway, arranging your life based on arbitrary prayer times every day is pretty insane, especially since god apparently didn't know about latitudes and how the sun works so you have to follow Mecca time or whatever. Of which only a fraction will actually stay in Finland. Over 30k came, and something in the order of 20k is left. Nice use of racist "wandering hordes" rhetoric, and even nicer internet atheism tho.
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Jul 20, 2016 15:35
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Call me crazy if you like, but I think that we maybe shouldn't revoke human rights based on what some internet Ligur imagines muslims to be like.
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Jul 20, 2016 15:40
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Kemper Boyd posted:When did everyone become an expert on islam anyway? All I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11 e: gently caress 
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Jul 20, 2016 15:40
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Kemper Boyd posted:Of which only a fraction will actually stay in Finland. Over 30k came, and something in the order of 20k is left. Nice use of racist "wandering hordes" rhetoric, and even nicer internet atheism tho. The "wandering hordes" part was ironic and often used figure of speech in this thread, but 20 thousand is still a lot of mouths to feed, educate and play children's games with (I don't mean Pokeman go).
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Jul 20, 2016 15:44
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Rexroom posted:It's probably worth mentioning that those lone Islamists are more or less disenfranchised youths who don't see a future for themselves quote:– Erittäin kiinnostava esimerkki on se, että ranskalaisten jihadistien kielenkäyttöön on pesiytynyt Kylmä rinki -televisiosarjasta tuttu termi "muslim" korvaamaan oman kielen musulman-sana. Hmmmery
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Jul 20, 2016 15:47
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Darkest Auer posted:What about your average Matti Muslim when you take into account the wandering hordes of refugees that came to Finland in the last year or so? Anyway, arranging your life based on arbitrary prayer times every day is pretty insane, especially since god apparently didn't know about latitudes and how the sun works so you have to follow Mecca time or whatever. "wandering hordes" lol they're refugees not loving 13th century mongols perhaps the first step in preventing the subhuman muslims from attacking is to not treat them like absolute poo poo at all times
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Jul 20, 2016 15:53
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 Replace Tintin with french jihadism researcher Olivier Roy
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Jul 20, 2016 15:54
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Herman Merman posted:
tintin why are you teaching those monkies about geograph- oh those are supposed to be literal black people oh my god
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Jul 20, 2016 15:58
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Rexroom posted:Yeah, that'll stop internet preachers based in another country from spreading their propaganda in Finland. It won't, you have to cut off Saudi/Gulf/Wahhabist money globally to defeat that. Darkest Auer posted:What about your average Matti Muslim when you take into account the wandering hordes of refugees that came to Finland in the last year or so? Anyway, arranging your life based on arbitrary prayer times every day is pretty insane, especially since god apparently didn't know about latitudes and how the sun works so you have to follow Mecca time or whatever. It takes like 1 min lol they don't "arrange their life based on arbitrary prayer times" I work with like a hundred Muslims on 12h shifts and I've seen one pray once
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Jul 20, 2016 16:11
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The whole anti-religion sentiment is spot on and might have even a larger psychological effect (based on my ponderings). When a child learns about whatever religion his parents follow, he's bound to ask some questions with no good answers because, surprise surprise, religions are all retarded. Now if his parents simply tell him that some things you just have to take for granted or some other crap, that puts his mind into a mode where some aspects of life don't need rational reasoning. That you don't have to base your opinions on facts and that you shouldn't change your opinions even if someone's arguments are better than yours. Now once a person has grown into that mindset, it's a lot more difficult to educate him about anything. He has gotten accustomed to ignoring logic and thinks that's the way life should be. I'm sure you can imagine the rest of the downsides. A culture emphasising rationality instead of tradition would lead to a better world. I know this is a bit of sidetrack of the whole terrorism debate, but as I got a bit of a religion-approving vibe from this thread, I felt like chiming in.
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Jul 20, 2016 17:13
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Kemper Boyd posted:When did everyone become an expert on islam anyway? Ask all the European "experts" or other talking heads who, after every Allahu Akbar -strike happens (probably going go turn from monthly to weekly now), are summoned worth and proclaim nothing ever has nothing to do with Islam. At least the latest strike has nothing to do with it, now, let's oppose racism instead. This is ridiculous bullshit. I would rather listen to the people who practice it or combat extremists in the Middle-East (ergo secular Muslims who oppose radical Muslims). I know Kemper doesn't even read my posts because he can't handle them and has no reasonable response but "whimper, u racis'", but just in general it is pretty ridiculous how many uhh, interviewed European (non-religious) "experts" or just "opinion people" are so hosed up in the head they cannot see any connection with someone shouting "Allah is Great" while shooting people in the name of Islam, and Islam. (The reasons for this are manyfold, but I have a suspicion one is their inability to admit the idea of "multiculturalism" where the East-African Muslim nomad leaves side by side with the Western social democratic feminist in peace and harmony didn't really work and will not work.) Every horrible monster who is "critical to completely open immigration from Muslim countries to EU soil" (or maahanmuuttokriittinen) are well aware there are dozens of sects of Muslims. For example I consider Ahmadiyya Muslims awesome dudes and girls, and I even know some personally as friends. I would not mind if they all moved to Finland tomorrow. Of course, with their peaceful ways, they are harassed and oppressed or worse by other Muslims everywhere they exist but I digress... Unfortunately ISIS supporters consider themselves as real followers of Islam as anyone else. A kemperboyd or hermanmerman or whatever loser who doesn't even practice religion has no business telling anyone what "real Islam" is. Real Islam is what it is for the person who follows it, whatever it may entail, be it peaceful co-existence with everyone or beheading everyone who looks and sounds different. Ligur fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 20, 2016 |
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Jul 20, 2016 18:41
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The whole thing about rationalism being a cure for all the world's ills is interesting, because the whole Enlightenment thing ended up creating some really horrifying ideas. For instance, eugenics was more or less entirely based on Enlightenment thought and ~rationalism~.
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Jul 20, 2016 18:49
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SnowblindFatal posted:religions are all retarded. Why or how? Why should they all be? I can't really imagine a single reason why I would call Buddhists or Ahmadiyya Muslims particularly retarded. At least they have some values worth upholding, unlike secular materialist Pokémon playing Western kids or kemperboyds who are mostly interested in making themselves look good in the face of whatever the current socially popular narrative is.
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Jul 20, 2016 18:57
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SnowblindFatal posted:religions are all retarded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXa80iqZQqI
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Jul 20, 2016 19:17
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Ligur posted:Why or how? Why should they all be? Yo, make no mistake, the Jesus character, for example, spews some of my favourite philosophy which everyone should try to follow. However, this does not lessen the fact that those teachings work just fine without any of the bullshit involved. Kinda same thing with all the hippie tantra crap and such. Yes, certain kinds of moving and touching feel nice as hell, but you still don't have to make up stories about energy fields and electrical currents flowing from person to person.
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Jul 20, 2016 21:33
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Skipped around a bit but seemed boring. What's this about?
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Jul 20, 2016 21:34
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SnowblindFatal posted:Yo, make no mistake, the Jesus character, for example, spews some of my favourite philosophy which everyone should try to follow. However, this does not lessen the fact that those teachings work just fine without any of the bullshit involved. Yeah sort of like that, so I'd say religious people without the bullshit are pretty decent people with pretty decent ideas, which makes religions ok in my book. I mean, ok religions are ok. If your religion includes homosexuals should not exist, women have to wear a Religious Garment if they walk outside, and apostates should be killed, perhaps not.
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Jul 20, 2016 21:40
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SnowblindFatal posted:Skipped around a bit but seemed boring. What's this about? How Christianity's 7 sins are about being a good person and what your motivations are, and Islam's are about being a good Muslim and benefiting the faith as an insular group that works together. Dunno how accurate it is but that's what the video guy is saying.
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Jul 20, 2016 22:06
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Ligur posted:A hermanmerman or whatever loser who doesn't even practice religion has no business telling anyone what "real Islam" is. Real Islam is what it is for the person who follows it, whatever it may entail, be it peaceful co-existence with everyone or beheading everyone who looks and sounds different. What slander is this. First you accuse me of prescribing for others what real Islam is, and then post my actual view on the topic as your own.
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Jul 20, 2016 22:36
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Herman Merman posted:What slander is this. First you accuse me of prescribing for others what real Islam is, and then post my actual view on the topic as your own. Sorry, I thought you were one of those people who (usually smugly) point out "the Islam of this dude who just killed everyone in the name of Islam is not really a Muslim and does not represent Islam" but I'm glad to know I was wrong. Like, seriously, not even trolling or whatever. Glad to hear.
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Jul 20, 2016 22:46
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Ligur posted:I can't really imagine a single reason why I would call Buddhists or Ahmadiyya Muslims particularly retarded. No, they all are. I know your average westerner has this orientalist view of Buddhism where it's all about bald monks humming in a mountain monastery, but it's actually just as batshit crazy as all the other religions. It's absolutely vile in how all the emphasis is on your self and your death, the world is just suffering that you must escape etc. Buddhism is not a "good" religion, your muslim cults are not "good" religions, Confucianism is not a "good" philosophy. They're all valuable in a historical sense in that they give perspective on how today's world has evolved and as inspiration for some great works of art, but in the modern world where because of science we know about things there's no reason to treat them as anything other than an example of what mad ideas morons in the past had.
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Jul 21, 2016 00:34
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Darkest Auer posted:No, they all are. I know your average westerner has this orientalist view of Buddhism where it's all about bald monks humming in a mountain monastery, but it's actually just as batshit crazy as all the other religions. It's absolutely vile in how all the emphasis is on your self and your death, the world is just suffering that you must escape etc. Buddhism is not a "good" religion, your muslim cults are not "good" religions, Confucianism is not a "good" philosophy. They're all valuable in a historical sense in that they give perspective on how today's world has evolved and as inspiration for some great works of art, but in the modern world where because of science we know about things there's no reason to treat them as anything other than an example of what mad ideas morons in the past had. Buddhists practice ethnic cleansing against muslims in Myanmar.
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Jul 21, 2016 00:47
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Hogge Wild posted:Buddhists practice ethnic cleansing against muslims in Myanmar. Look, one positive doesn't negate all that other bad stuff.
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Jul 21, 2016 01:09
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doverhog posted:How Christianity's 7 sins are about being a good person and what your motivations are, and Islam's are about being a good Muslim and benefiting the faith as an insular group that works together. Dunno how accurate it is but that's what the video guy is saying. That was the gist of it.
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Jul 21, 2016 13:29
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http://www.hs.fi/politiikka/a1469073010924?ref=hs-etusivub-uusimmat-#10 No comment.
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Jul 21, 2016 16:21
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quote:"Muhammad ei ole Suomessa vapaasti arvostelun kohteena" literally half a second ago, same person: quote:”Hitler vainosi ja murhasi vähemmistöjä. Samaa tapahtuu profeetta Muhammadin seuraajien parissa" I assume the Mutaween didn't come and put him in jail for insulting the prophet so uhh
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Jul 21, 2016 16:34
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He might be investigated for it soon, like Hakkarainen already is. Do they realize that if the law was removed it would be legal for religious extremists of any type to preach violence against Christians, or women, or whoever. The law doesn't apply to any particular group or religion, the kansanryhmä can be anyone.
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Jul 21, 2016 16:44
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doverhog posted:He might be investigated for it soon, like Hakkarainen already is. Yes but he actually broke a law (if someone thinks that calling for deportation of entire religious group is not incitement then megalol) literally hundreds of people freely criticize Muhammed, this teachings and his followers on a daily basis in Finland without going into court so he is completely wrong doverhog posted:Do they realize that if the law was removed it would be legal for religious extremists of any type to preach violence against Christians, or women, or whoever. The law doesn't apply to any particular group or religion, the kansanryhmä can be anyone. Hey now, what's a little Pro-Holocaust poetry every now and then as long as we can say anything we want about Muslims and browns without having to answer for it, it's the Persu way
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Jul 21, 2016 17:07
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Calling for violence is already prohibited, vague "hate speech" laws are not required for this. Just FYI.
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Jul 21, 2016 17:07
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There's more than one way to call for violence. If you preach someone is subhuman and dangerous you are inciting violence without ever giving explicit instructions for killing.
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Jul 21, 2016 17:15
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onkohan latonta puhua totta ja sanoa että profeetta muhammed oli pedofiili?
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Jul 21, 2016 17:18
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Ligur posted:Calling for violence is already prohibited, vague "hate speech" laws are not required for this. Just FYI. Good thing the hate speech laws we have are not vague and only half a dozen people a year or so are convicted, then! Hogge Wild posted:onkohan latonta puhua totta ja sanoa että profeetta muhammed oli pedofiili? No, pretty sure you won't have to look far to see actual published books that say this talk to me if the religious police bust in your door though
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Jul 21, 2016 17:19
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Hogge Wild posted:onkohan latonta puhua totta ja sanoa että profeetta muhammed oli pedofiili? Evidence would suggest not, since no one has ever been prosecuted for that. It wouldn't fall under "kiihotus kansanryhmää vastaan" anyway. Uskonrauhan rikkominen is a dumb law that should be removed.
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Jul 21, 2016 17:21
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DarkCrawler posted:No, pretty sure you won't have to look far to see actual published books that say this i will doverhog posted:Evidence would suggest not, since no one has ever been prosecuted for that. It wouldn't fall under "kiihotus kansanryhmää vastaan" anyway. Uskonrauhan rikkominen is a dumb law that should be removed. agreed
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Jul 21, 2016 17:34
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Hogge Wild posted:onkohan latonta puhua totta ja sanoa että profeetta muhammed oli pedofiili? Problem is, most people were paedophiles back then. Just look at the ancient Greeks and their NAMBLA ways. If we're going to hold ancient religious figures accountable on modern mores, wouldn't we complain how there weren't any women in Jesus's sausage club? Smash the patriarchy!
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Jul 21, 2016 18:09
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Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene, his most important disciple. Paul worked hard to erase this fact from history after Jesus' death and ultimately succeeded.
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Jul 21, 2016 18:32
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