|
monster on a stick posted:So she gets scholarships which may have even been need based because she describes herself as growing up poor. Then she worked to graduate early which probably meant taking extra classes each semester or quarter or whatever Harvard uses. She's not bad with money, but the article is really frustrating, because it's so out of touch. If you read it., it literally says that anyone can retire early if they just save half their income as if that's a reasonable thing your Walmart cashier could do if they just stopped buying avocado toast.
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 11:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
BattleMoose posted:Just finished reading the thread and been really enjoying it, a bit late to a few of the recent discussions. You say that like it's a bad thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 11:57
|
|
|
Yeah I don't see why estates having outstanding student debt taken from them is bad. If your family is expecting to inherit wealth from you, the public shouldn't be financing your education IMO
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 13:35
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:So she gets scholarships which may have even been need based because she describes herself as growing up poor. I have a hard time believing that someone named "J.P. Livingston" grew up poor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 13:51
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:Yeah I don't see why estates having outstanding student debt taken from them is bad. No no, don't you see? Education is more than just a word. It's also a magic spell that allows you to ignore anything you don't like about the laws of economics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 13:53
|
|
|
All you need to retire is an extremely high paying job and work it for almost a decade. I should have thought of that sooner....damnit Solice...
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:18
|
|
|
SquirrelFace posted:She's not bad with money, but the article is really frustrating, because it's so out of touch. If you read it., it literally says that anyone can retire early if they just save half their income as if that's a reasonable thing your Walmart cashier could do if they just stopped buying avocado toast. Can you quote where it says that because I literally don't see her literally saying that in the article. OctaviusBeaver posted:I have a hard time believing that someone named "J.P. Livingston" grew up poor. It's a fake name which the article mentions pretty early on. Nail Rat posted:Yeah I don't see why estates having outstanding student debt taken from them is bad. People have this idea that they deserve an inheritance because someone they are genetically related to died and drat you if you try to take it away because the person who died owed money. Australia would have put that money back into their scholarship system, but no, can't have that, I need that inheritance because there's a Steam sale coming up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
How dare an article suggest people save money don't they know the unemployed can't save money? That article is so out of touch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:25
|
|
|
Keep in mind with HECS most of the current MPs got their education at a time when the Gov provided free education at uni. At best most paid only a few thousand compared to the much higher fees they have now. Some were caught on archival footage arguing against the HECS system when they were students which went down well with their arguments to add higher fees.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:29
|
|
|
ranbo das posted:How dare an article suggest people save money don't they know the unemployed can't save money? That article is so out of touch. Next up on the BWM thread: attacking an article that suggests you use your workplace 401k to save for retirement
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:31
|
|
|
"Just have your family pay to send you to one of the best universities in the world, get a high paying job immediately after graduation, and continue to live like a starving student for a decade and you too can retire early!" is like.. the opposite of useful advice though. Or is this going to be one of those "lol well if you can't get the scholarships and grants to get a degree without getting in ruinous debt then you're objectively a worthless human being and should kill yourself" threads?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:33
|
|
|
Guys, check out this revolutionary new piece of financial wisdom: You never have to worry about not having money if you have lots of money, so you should just have lots of money!
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:35
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:"Just have your family pay to send you to one of the best universities in the world, get a high paying job immediately after graduation, and continue to live like a starving student for a decade and you too can retire early!" is like.. the opposite of useful advice though. "Get a good education, get a high-paying job, and live well below your means is the opposite of useful advice" - the BWM thread
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:37
|
|
|
Being poor is BWM! Official GWM advice: Don't be poor!
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:39
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:So she gets scholarships which may have even been need based because she describes herself as growing up poor. Then she worked to graduate early which probably meant taking extra classes each semester or quarter or whatever Harvard uses. She said scholarships and "her family's savings" ie her parents paid for her college, which puts a lot of doubt on the "growing up poor" claim. ranbo das posted:How dare an article suggest people save money don't they know the unemployed can't save money? That article is so out of touch. Its out of touch because of course you can retire early with a salary "in the mid-six-figures" and your family paying for your schooling and then apparently giving you the rest of the college money cause you graduated early. There are plenty of regular people accomplishing early retirement that didn't go to Harvard for free and then make half a mil a year working in finance. Hell, theres a FIRE thread on these here forums if you'd like to read about some of them. The article in no way attempts to present a picture that normal people can relate to. Thats out of touch. Its also 25% an advertisement for her blog.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:40
|
|
|
Compared to a lot of the fluff early retirement articles I've seen on the major news sites, that one is at least somewhat grounded in reality. Yeah it's not within reach of the average person but the general concepts can apply to most people. And banking jobs that pay you that well out of college are usually long hours and hard work, I don't imagine it was putting up with a 9-5 for a decade. A lot of the early retirement articles I see tend to be "become a successful blogger at 30 and retire". Or "develop a product, become a CEO, and sell the business". Easy
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:42
|
|
|
She didn't grow up poor if her families savings plus scholarships could send her to Harvard with no debt. Anyone who's filled out the FAFSA and received any amount of financial aid should understand this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:47
|
|
|
SCA Enthusiast posted:She didn't grow up poor if her families savings plus scholarships could send her to Harvard with no debt. Anyone who's filled out the FAFSA and received any amount of financial aid should understand this. Not necessarily. Harvard is free if your household income is less than $65k and doesn't hit full price until income reaches $150k (I think).
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:50
|
|
|
pr0zac posted:She said scholarships and "her family's savings" ie her parents paid for her college, which puts a lot of doubt on the "growing up poor" claim. Also, it gives a hard floor on her family income. Harvard covers tuition, fees, and living expenses 100% for people who have less than $65,000 in family income. The program has been around long enough that, if she's in her 20s, it was in effect while she was there. If her family had to pay a cent out of savings, they might have been poor by Ivy League and NYC finance standards, but they weren't exactly in desperate poverty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:51
|
|
|
Folly posted:Not necessarily. Harvard is free if your household income is less than $65k and doesn't hit full price until income reaches $150k (I think). She graduated before that policy was implemented.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:51
|
|
|
SCA Enthusiast posted:She didn't grow up poor if her families savings plus scholarships could send her to Harvard with no debt. Anyone who's filled out the FAFSA and received any amount of financial aid should understand this. Harvard isn't like other schools. Their endowment is so large that tuition is basically gravy for them. If you get accepted into Harvard and your parents aren't rich they will make it work. Tons of aid available at that school.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:51
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:She graduated before that policy was implemented. Well, only technically, because in 2006 the cap was $60,000 rather than $65,000: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12093303/ns/us_news-education/t/harvard-waives-tuition-low-income-students/ If she's in her twenties then she must have been a very precocious student to have graduated before the waiver programs existed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:54
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:Can you quote where it says that because I literally don't see her literally saying that I was referring to this line which admittedly is not exactly what I presented it as: "Anyone can achieve financial independence simply by saving a lot." Which is silly when 15% of the US population lives below the poverty line and many more are just scraping by. Everyone can't just save a lot, because not everyone has a lot to begin with. I mean, I'm not saying that the woman in the article is BWM. She's incredibly good with money and was able to accomplish what she has due to good choices, hard work and fortuitous circumstance. What I object to is the article presenting this as something that's an option for everyone which is a very narrow, middle/upper class perspective.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:55
|
|
|
Also note the clever wording of the statement: "I came from a family that grew up really poor". This is a favorite phrase for rich people who want to look like they're in touch. It says I didn't grow up poor but I have a family history of poverty but we bootstrapped our way out of it. Greetings, fellow poor people!
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:55
|
|
|
Her salary also rose to mid-six figures in the 7 or 9 years she was working. From original 65k base + commissions that took it up to about 100k or something. I mean, yeah, the article isn't giving bad advice, but it highlights an edge case with outcomes that almost no one can expect to match. It's giving great advice to the exact few hundred people a year that might be entering the workforce in those circumstances, but completely useless to the rest of us.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 14:57
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:She graduated before that policy was implemented. Thanks for the correction. And yeah, she would have to be if already retired. And I think what we're dancing around the same issue because the article is part good and part bad and it allows anybody to take either side by simply arguing against or for whichever part they chose. The issue we're dancing around is that this woman's core advice is GWM: Seek a high income and live below your means. But her implementation, as a specific path to follow, is too much of a longshot to be standard advice. It would be like advising someone to pursue a career in pro-sports.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:01
|
|
|
SquirrelFace posted:I was referring to this line which admittedly is not exactly what I presented it as: You are 100% right, advice aimed at people who are not living below the poverty line is by definition bad advice. Let's remove that advice about using 401k/IRAs from the Long-Term Investing and Retirement Savings thread. But that "quote" - that's not her saying that, that's the writer of the article. Pro-tip: you can tell when they are quoting someone because they use this symbol -->"<-- before and after the parts where they are quoted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:05
|
|
|
Why are we not talking about how BWM she is if she winds up having to take the 10% IRS penalty for dipping into her dedicated retirement funds before 59.5?!
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:06
|
|
|
just buy a cheap stock when it's cheap and then sell it when it goes up 1000% in value, bing bing bong so simple. The advice of "get a free education at one of the best universities on the planet and then get a really high-paying job" just isn't particularly useful to anyone. What does someone do with that new "knowledge" once they're told that? It's not something actionable like "invest in your 401k and use low-cost index funds" It also seems like $2.25M wouldn't be enough to coast on for the next 50+ years but maybe it'd work if you're super cheap.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
Solice Kirsk posted:Why are we not talking about how BWM she is if she winds up having to take the 10% IRS penalty for dipping into her dedicated retirement funds before 59.5?! I believe you can avoid the 10% penalty by converting to a Roth (which doesn't have a penalty at all for withdrawing contributions) or by using SEPP. brugroffil posted:It also seems like $2.25M wouldn't be enough to coast on for the next 50+ years but maybe it'd work if you're super cheap. There's a lot of backtesting and studies involved with this, specifically google "Trinity Study", and all that should go into the financial independence thread, but she's using a 3% SWR which is actually quite conservative.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
brugroffil posted:just buy a cheap stock when it's cheap and then sell it when it goes up 1000% in value, bing bing bong so simple. The advice of "get a free education at one of the best universities on the planet and then get a really high-paying job" just isn't particularly useful to anyone. What does someone do with that new "knowledge" once they're told that? It's not something actionable like "invest in your 401k and use low-cost index funds" Just take that 2.25mil and buy an immediate lifetime pay annuity! You'll probably be able to pay yourself ~120k a year for the rest of your life if you don't have a jt life or ROP rider on that bad boy!
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:10
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:I believe you can avoid the 10% penalty by converting to a Roth (which doesn't have a penalty at all for withdrawing contributions) or by using SEPP. Need to own your own business and have employees for a SEP, and you pay taxes on the conversion per year for a ROTH. edit: Oh! you're talking about a 72-t. Never mind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:11
|
|
|
Most folks who graduate Harvard and other ridiculous schools get to that line in 10-15 years, closer to 15 with student debt, unless they go into academia or higher echelons of med school They just don't retire because what else are you going to do with your life
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:15
|
|
|
curufinor posted:They just don't retire because what else are you going to do with your life Literally anything other than get up at 8 AM and dance at the whim of assholes who make 3x as much as you. I mean retiring doesn't necessarily mean not working either, just get consulting gigs and if you want to gently caress off for Europe and be drunk for a year do it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:18
|
|
|
Seriously, there's a whole thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3560269 And it's kinda stagnate, so it might benefit from this derail.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:20
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:Literally anything other than get up at 8 AM and dance at the whim of assholes who make 3x as much as you. I think in this instance these people are the assholes making 3x everyone else's income. Not the other way around
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:21
|
|
|
Primetime posted:I think in this instance these people are the assholes making 3x everyone else's income. Not the other way around I'm talking about in general why someone would retire after 10-15 years. And those people are often answering to even bigger assholes who make even more money, too, unless they're literally the CEO. Mid-six-figures in NYC, she definitely wasn't a CEO, she had a boss. edit: don't get me wrong, she's bourgeois and privileged but getting out of the race is always a good idea if you can do it and live a lifestyle you're comfortable with. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:22
|
|
|
monster on a stick posted:
Speaking of inheritance, someone in this thread recommended Beyond the Grave for its collection of BWM stories and I wanted to thank them. There aren't really that many stories, but it's well written and seeing people from the perspective of an inheritance attorney is hilarious. The theme of the book is basically that your children are awful, petty monsters. There's also a chapter subtitled "Do you really want to leave everything to a charity that clothes naked horses?" which feels very appropriate for this thread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:27
|
|
|
She got a great education, had a good job, lived frugally, and retired at age 30. No one's saying you can retire at age 30 if you don't have that going for you. But if you actually plan for retirement and sacrifice early you can retire at age 50 even on a modest income and a middling education. I won't do that, but if it means that much to you then it's possible. This thread has devolved quiet a bit just in the last year. There's a lot more NWM (negative with money) people in here now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 14:37 |
|
|
Ohthehugemanatee posted:Speaking of inheritance, someone in this thread recommended Beyond the Grave for its collection of BWM stories and I wanted to thank them. There aren't really that many stories, but it's well written and seeing people from the perspective of an inheritance attorney is hilarious. The theme of the book is basically that your children are awful, petty monsters. That was me, and I'm glad you liked it. There was also that story about a scam charity for cats that was 
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2017 15:46
|
|