Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

apple posted:

I would fully expect some choice words from the playerbase about "free speech" or something to that effect protesting their inability to call themselves what they want. There's already been a bit of "outrage" at renaming Sword of Jihad, for example.

There is a reason I very rarely go the Tavern even though I do like this game enough to constantly follow its development. The tantrums they sometimes throw over not being an rear end or trying to be inclusive like changing the gender of some of the unique is embarrassing.

I have no idea what the crawl subreddit is like because that would require going to reddit.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:00

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# ? May 28, 2024 14:27

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

apple posted:

I think some form of this has been mentioned before, but a dev-side solution could be to simply remove player names by default and show instead "novice minotaur monk" or the like, and you could have an rc file option to enable player names if you'd rather have those.

That would still leave leaderboards potentially showing inappropriate names, but AFAIK all the players with inappropriate names suck too much too appear in leaderboards you can still pull them up by typing their name, though.

Actually, the scoreboard has a blacklist variable to stop an account from showing up on any public leaderboard. They still have their own score page, but you have to go to it manually to find it.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:05

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

A reasonable person would expect that feature to also tie into ghost generation, since the sort of person who leaves anomalous scores would also leave anomalous ghosts.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:11

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

Stop ghost generation, and also replace all rings and amulets with strictly negative cursed ones.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:13

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

fool_of_sound posted:

Stop ghost generation, and also replace all rings and amulets with strictly negative cursed ones.

When you create your account it asks for your race and all ghosts you encounter are named <racial slur>killer

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:18

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

fool_of_sound posted:

Stop ghost generation, and also replace all rings and amulets with strictly negative cursed ones.

One man's amulet of harm is another man's cursed..amulet of..something something.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:19

Mr. Prokosch: Feb 14, 2012; Behold My Magnificence!

Practical council question: Is it worth it as a Fromicid Fighter in heavy armor to invest in stealth for the stab chance and stab damage even if you're super loud?

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:23

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Captain Monkey posted:

Some of those were opinions, some of them were playful sarcasm. Both are allowed.

I don't think the bunnies like the way you're trying to "play" with them, Lennie.

Yes, you are allowed to be an rear end in a top hat here. That's quite well documented with a long trail of examples.

I'm allowed to point out that (a) those aren't jokes, (b) you're just being a dick, and (c) you clearly could give two shits about anyone in here.

I'm also allowed to opine that no one thinks you are funny and the general consensus seems to be all you are doing is stirring up poo poo that we are all quite frankly tired of smelling.

I'm done with this thread for a bit myself. Enjoy your carping. Jesus Christ, I never thought this place would make the Crawl forums seem like bastions of enlightened discourse...

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:25

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Everyone else moved on and everything is chill now. Calm down Angry Guy.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:40

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Mr. Prokosch posted:

Practical council question: Is it worth it as a Fromicid Fighter in heavy armor to invest in stealth for the stab chance and stab damage even if you're super loud?

Stab chance is approximately Dexterity plus the average between your weapon skill and stealth. With the ease in which Formicids can wield two-handed weapons along with a shield, you're probably going to be aiming around 20 in your weapon skill for min delay, which means it will provide about 10% on its own.

Stab damage is a bit more complex but it also deals with Dexterity and that average. However any other weapon type aside from Short Blades does not benefit greatly from getting stabs (their base damage typically is enough anyway): Short blades at 10 average skill level will hit a confused enemy for a maximum of 51% more damage whereas another weapon type will get 20.8%. If you cranked Stealth to bring that average up, at average of 15 (20 weapon skill + 10 Stealth) your non-short blade is getting 31.2% maximum and at 20 (matching your weapon skill) it's 41.7%.

I would recommend against Stealth investment purely for getting stabs.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:41

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

Captain Monkey posted:

Everyone else moved on and everything is chill now. Calm down Angry Guy.

they're not wrong, though

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:41

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Johnny Joestar posted:

they're not wrong, though

Disagree.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:49

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

World Famous W posted:

I have no idea what the crawl subreddit is like because that would require going to reddit.

mostly fine tbh although it is often full of the kinda uninformed/inaccurate advice that the wiki was/often still is full of

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:49

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Mr. Prokosch posted:

Practical council question: Is it worth it as a Fromicid Fighter in heavy armor to invest in stealth for the stab chance and stab damage even if you're super loud?

What sage said.

However... you could wear Shadow Dragon Scales. Good AC/Enchant but no resists. Excellent stealth and stealth apt and if you're using longswords you've got shortblades crosstrain. Probably wouldn't bother with wuxia god, but if Faded Altar'd into Dithmenos it'd be pretty drat tempting.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 19:55

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Back to the discussion, I like the idea of the council god moves just not working above leather, or having heavier than leather armor cause piety degradation or something.

That's a lot better couple choices than randomly increasing your noise. That sort of change (noise) is hard to explain to the playerbase and tends to be pretty opaque in its causes and stipulations.

But council god being antithecal to armor is pretty cool and thematic. Noise is a bad mechanic to use for it though because its still pretty opaque. You can't tell as well how much noise a thing will make or how far out that goes, etc. without getting really nerdy about it.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 20:11

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

How is it opaque? We've got a noise meter that replaced the gold count in the same version that wuxia god got added!

# ? Mar 9, 2017 20:17

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Sage Grimm posted:

How is it opaque? We've got a noise meter that replaced the gold count in the same version that wuxia god got added!

Because you cant tell the effect of your action before the consequences. Because noise itself as a concept is not well explained. I made 100 units of noise, wht does that mean? How does it differ from 99 units? How much of a chart has to be memorized? How much noise will a wall jump cost in scale? Ringmail? The various dragon armors? How about a lunge? Etc. Etc.

Its a needless later of complexity that a small yellow or grey bar doesn't adequately explain.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 20:28

Mr. Prokosch: Feb 14, 2012; Behold My Magnificence!

What if wall jump had an exhaustion counter that takes more turns to recover the higher your encumbrance? At light armor there's no exhaustion, at heavy you can jump once every 10 turns or whatever.

I also think it would be cool to add flavor restrictions if the god is deemed to strong instead of nerfing abilities, even though it seems like that's something devs have been avoiding for the new gods. Maybe a vegetarian diet and no direct damage spells? (I suspect the council is one of the better blaster gods just because of wall jump and serpent's lash getting you distance and I don't think that was intended)

# ? Mar 9, 2017 20:33

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Mr. Prokosch posted:

What if wall jump had an exhaustion counter that takes more turns to recover the higher your encumbrance? At light armor there's no exhaustion, at heavy you can jump once every 10 turns or whatever.

I also think it would be cool to add flavor restrictions if the god is deemed to strong instead of nerfing abilities, even though it seems like that's something devs have been avoiding for the new gods. Maybe a vegetarian diet and no direct damage spells? (I suspect the council is one of the better blaster gods just because of wall jump and serpent's lash getting you distance and I don't think that was intended)

I'm surprised WJC moves didn't have exhaustion timers in the first place. No poo poo they're gonna be hard to balance if you can just spam them forever.

Maybe whirlwind's could kick in after X uses(or have a chance of kicking in after each use), so you still get a bit of the intended effect without being able to spam it so hard.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 21:12

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

God conduct: No ranged weapons, no damaging spells. The god of martial arts demands you fight in hand to hand combat.

Ties in with the mobility and cloud generation abilities and provides a real restriction to dissuade kiting with jump. Even then jump is still too powerful but it's something.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 21:24

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Darox posted:

God conduct: No ranged weapons, no damaging spells. The god of martial arts demands you fight in hand to hand combat.

Ties in with the mobility and cloud generation abilities and provides a real restriction to dissuade kiting with jump. Even then jump is still too powerful but it's something.

This is also a cool and good solution rather than a lazy one.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 21:28

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

Darox posted:

God conduct: No ranged weapons, no damaging spells. The god of martial arts demands you fight in hand to hand combat.

Ties in with the mobility and cloud generation abilities and provides a real restriction to dissuade kiting with jump. Even then jump is still too powerful but it's something.

Yeah I like this.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 21:42

Cerepol: Dec 2, 2011

Darox posted:

God conduct: No ranged weapons, no damaging spells. The god of martial arts demands you fight in hand to hand combat.

Ties in with the mobility and cloud generation abilities and provides a real restriction to dissuade kiting with jump. Even then jump is still too powerful but it's something.

Basically how I played it anyways
note: I'm still a bad player who gets impatient and dies.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 21:54

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Hep tip: Don't forget to Idealize your ancestor. Idealize all the time.

quote:

Mountain Elf hits Boris with a lajatang of freezing!!!

# ? Mar 9, 2017 22:45

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

where is the playable hydra race that has no hands but can wear 27 hats and amulets

# ? Mar 9, 2017 23:05

Decrepus: May 21, 2008; In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.

Samog posted:

where is the playable hydra race that has no hands but can wear 27 hats and amulets

Samog shouts in stereo x27

# ? Mar 9, 2017 23:09

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Hydra Form is a spell I hate that keeps killing my OgTms because I can't seem to learn.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 23:25

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

World Famous W posted:

Hydra Form is a spell I hate that keeps killing my OgTms because I can't seem to learn.

The correct way to become a hydra is at Xoms whim.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 23:44

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

making council god give better bonuses to those who are lightly armored is a cool idea, honestly

# ? Mar 9, 2017 23:45

Panic! at Nabisco: Jun 6, 2007; it seemed like a good idea at the time

Johnny Joestar posted:

making council god give better bonuses to those who are lightly armored is a cool idea, honestly

I agree with this. As of right now, I think most people will agree that heavy armored melee is more powerful than just about anything else for a majority of the game, and light armored melee, while it makes up for it in easier access to spellcasting, falls behind some. That would even the scales a bit in some cases.

# ? Mar 9, 2017 23:59

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

Holy moley guacamole there actually is a hydra form, I thought you were joking. I take back everything bad I've ever said about the devs

# ? Mar 10, 2017 01:39

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

PF even implemented my suggestion for the game to say "Spicy!" when you eat a monster that has sticky flame on it via hydra form

# ? Mar 10, 2017 01:49

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

IronicDongz posted:

PF even implemented my suggestion for the game to say "Spicy!" when you eat a monster that has sticky flame on it via hydra form

This level of flavor is absolutely impermissible.

# ? Mar 10, 2017 01:52

Roctavian: Feb 23, 2011

if all the other devs are driven away, then you will all have to face me, and I cannot be defeated. That was why they gave me commit rights, you know -- it's not like I can code or even figure out how to use git. Grunt said, "you might not be able to protect crawl, but you can be drat sure we'll avenge it."

# ? Mar 10, 2017 02:00

Darth Windu: Mar 17, 2009; by Smythe

Roctavian posted:

if all the other devs are driven away, then you will all have to face me, and I cannot be defeated. That was why they gave me commit rights, you know -- it's not like I can code or even figure out how to use git. Grunt said, "you might not be able to protect crawl, but you can be drat sure we'll avenge it."

You WILL be defeated and then we will have high elves singularity and spectral weapon riposte and everyone will be happy

# ? Mar 10, 2017 02:45

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

implement a button that will let me play a .wav file of my choice to my spectators

# ? Mar 10, 2017 03:23

dpeg: Jul 18, 2008; As far as I see it, you should never go to SA to look out for useful feedback or even interesting ideas; I certainly don't

Samog posted:

implement a button that will let me play a .wav file of my choice to my spectators

I threw some bones, and they prophesied a thoroughly worn out fart.wav.

# ? Mar 10, 2017 08:42

SteelNeuron: Feb 23, 2017

Darox posted:

God conduct: No ranged weapons, no damaging spells. The god of martial arts demands you fight in hand to hand combat.

Ties in with the mobility and cloud generation abilities and provides a real restriction to dissuade kiting with jump. Even then jump is still too powerful but it's something.

Interesting you bring this up, this is exactly how the first iterations of the god worked (no ranged damage + no shields conduct).

Didn't quite work, because while it hurt a set of builds, it didn't at all affect the builds that were already the strongest (high mitigation, high HP pure melee). The end result was having a much narrower god with fewer viable build choices.

Finding the right conduct for WJC is something I'm still struggling with after trying a lot of different things. The only venue left that I consider promising is related to AC, SH, encumbrance ratings, etc.

# ? Mar 10, 2017 09:18

weirdly chilly pussy: Oct 6, 2007

Trip report: Tengu air elementalist of Sif:

code:

3358334 Slobodan the Meteorologist (level 27, 199/199 HPs)
             Began as a Tengu Air Elementalist on Mar 7, 2017.
             Was an Elder of Sif Muna.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 5 runes on Mar 10, 2017!
             
             The game lasted 15:36:08 (64881 turns).

Slobodan the Meteorologist (TeAE)                  Turns: 64881, Time: 15:36:08

Health: 199/199    AC: 23    Str: 11    XL:     27
Magic:  39/45      EV: 37    Int: 33    God:    Sif Muna [****..]
Gold:   3679       SH: 13    Dex: 25    Spells: 9/60 levels left

rFire    + + .     SeeInvis +   v - staff of air
rCold    + . .     Gourm    .   X - +2 robe {Archmagi}
rNeg     + + +     Faith    .   c - +3 buckler of Satisfaction {rN+ rCorr Str+3}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   R - +3 crown of Dyrovepreva {rElec Int+2 SInv}
rElec    +         Reflect  .   d - scarf {rC+ rF+}
rCorr    +         Harm     .   D - +2 pair of gloves "Yxymul" {*Drain rF- Dex+4 Slay+4}
MR       ++++.                  (boots unavailable)
Stlth    ++........             z - amulet of Vitality {Regen+ HP+15}
Regen    0.9/turn               O - ring of the Fool {rF+ MR+ Int+3}
MPRegen  0.3/turn               G - ring of Vacloat {rF+ rN++ Int+3 Dex+4}

@: icy armour, flying quickly and evasively, very slightly contaminated, hasted,
divine energy, deflect missiles, very quick
A: beak, horns 1, talons 3, large bone plates 1, blurry vision 3, magic
resistance 1, shaggy fur 1, weak 1, able to fly 2
0: Orb of Zot
}: 5/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver, abyssal
a: Stop Flying, Stop Divine Energy, Channel Magic, Forget Spell, Renounce
Religion

code:

Skills:
 * Level 21.9 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Staves
 + Level 17.9 Dodging
 - Level 5.0 Stealth
 - Level 4.0 Shields
 - Level 17.0 Spellcasting
 + Level 24.3 Conjurations
 - Level 9.3 Charms
 - Level 5.0 Summonings
 - Level 5.3 Necromancy
 - Level 2.0 Translocations
 - Level 5.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 9.0 Ice Magic
 O Level 27 Air Magic
 - Level 2.0 Earth Magic
 - Level 10.0 Invocations
 - Level 9.0 Evocations


You had 9 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ########..   1%          6    None
b - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   1%          7    ####...
c - Aura of Abjuration    Summ           ######....   6%          5    None
d - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
e - Conjure Ball Lightni  Conj/Air       #########.   0%          6    None
f - Lightning Bolt        Conj/Air       #########.   0%          5    None
g - Tornado               Air            #########.   4%          9    #######
h - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth #######...   1%          5    None
i - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       #######.     1%          3    None
j - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #######...   1%          3    None

Early game included a lot of multizapping, running away and use of conjure flame. Orb of destruction and tornado were gamechangers and tornado especially is the answer to any problem in crawl it seems. New Sif Muna was a lot more userfriendly, basically "click one button to get full mana" for the whole game. Staff of air is also surprisingly good for bashing popcorn like orb guardians.

# ? Mar 10, 2017 13:48

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# ? May 28, 2024 14:27

spider wisdom: Nov 4, 2011; og data bandit

Recently got my first rune! I can kite spiders with the best of them. :toot:

I'm having trouble poking into the other branches with no elemental/corr resistance though. I've made it to Vaults 2 and haven't found much for resistance aside from a basic ring here and there. Acid blobs quickly push my poo poo in, and Hydras in the swamp do the same w/o Brothers in Arms. What should I do?

I guess I don't 100% need the stealth ring right now and some r is better than none.

e: ugh last post on this page, but posting for posterity anyway:

code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.5 (webtiles) character file.
 
redlock the Severer (Gargoyle Berserker)           Turns: 31908, Time: 03:22:44
 
Health: 110/110    AC: 46    Str: 28 (29) XL:     17   Next: 93%
Magic:  18/18      EV:  9    Int:  7      God:    Trog [*****.]
Gold:   2519       SH:  0    Dex:  8      Spells: 0 memorised, 16 levels left
 
rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    j - +8 battleaxe "Neptoz" {drain, Fragile +Inv
rElec rN+}
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    D - +6 chain mail of Distant Shores {-Cast rN+++
Str+3 Stlth+}
rNeg   + + +      Faith    .    (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  &#8734;          Spirit   +    Z - +2 helmet
rElec  +          Reflect  .    g - +2 cloak {+Inv}
rCorr  .          Harm     .    e - +2 pair of gloves
MR     ++...      NoCast   +    o - +2 pair of boots {run}
Stlth  ++++......               U - amulet "Irghiant" {Spirit rN+ MR+ Stlth+}
                                p - ring of stealth
                                (no ring)
 
@: quick
A: big wings, talons 1, clumsy 1, deterioration 1, dopey 1, negative energy
resistance 1, electricity resistance, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot
immunity, AC +12
a: Fly, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Burn Spellbooks, Renounce
Religion, Evoke Invisibility
}: 1/15 runes: gossamer
 
 
You are on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Trog.
Trog is extremely pleased with you.
You are not hungry.
 
You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 32 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Ossuary and Bailey.
 
You have collected 2883 gold pieces.
You have spent 364 gold pieces at shops.
 
Inventory:
 
Hand Weapons
 j - the +8 battleaxe "Neptoz" (weapon) {drain, Fragile +Inv rElec rN+}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)   

Armour
 e - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 g - a +2 cloak of invisibility (worn)
 o - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 D - the +6 chain mail of Distant Shores (worn) {-Cast rN+++ Str+3 Stlth+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 6 of the Dungeon)   
 Z - a +2 helmet (worn)

Jewellery
 d - the ring of Hoixeg {rC+ Int+7}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon)   
 p - a ring of stealth (right hand)
 v - an uncursed ring of fire
 U - the amulet "Irghiant" (around neck) {Spirit rN+ MR+ Stlth+}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)

spider wisdom fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 10, 2017

# ? Mar 10, 2017 16:28

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