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So I got a bunch of offers and chose the best one signed a letter etc etc, and scheduled a meeting with my boss to give my notice on Monday at 4. At 2pm Monday, new job calls me to say they need me to explain an item on my background check and that it might impact my future employment. I was THIS Close to getting out.
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Jul 29, 2021 04:33
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Pillowpants posted:So I got a bunch of offers and chose the best one signed a letter etc etc, and scheduled a meeting with my boss to give my notice on Monday at 4. Better you hear it now than after you give your notice.
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Jul 29, 2021 04:40
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Pillowpants posted:So I got a bunch of offers and chose the best one signed a letter etc etc, and scheduled a meeting with my boss to give my notice on Monday at 4. How did the defamation suit come about, and how was it resolved? If you're allowed to talk about it. I would imagine it's this rather than the bankruptcy they want you to explain. You might want to talk to your lawyer before talking to the company.
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Jul 29, 2021 04:47
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Pillowpants posted:So I got a bunch of offers and chose the best one signed a letter etc etc, and scheduled a meeting with my boss to give my notice on Monday at 4. Tell him you are fielding offers but want to stay because you like the culture etc. and at least try to get a raise out of it. There was over 6% inflation in the past year even if you're doing the bare minimum it's more than fair to ask for that. After a long string of short stints at locally owned, family run businesses (that were very dysfunctional), I have ended up at a locally owned family run business that is owned by a corporate overlord who we have to interface with but generally they leave us to do what we do. I have hit it off well with my direct supervisor and the practice owner, I believe they both see potential in me. I know this thread is fairly cynical in nature (fairly) but I am recently married, less recently graduated from college and curious to see what I can do at a company that actually is functional. How do I effectively channel this energy to advance my career and my earnings?
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Jul 29, 2021 05:49
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Comstar, get out of your job asap. I got put on a PiP once where they wanted me gone and one of my tasks was to coach someone. That person had already quit.
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Jul 29, 2021 06:04
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Eric the Mauve posted:How did the defamation suit come about, and how was it resolved? If you're allowed to talk about it. I would imagine it's this rather than the bankruptcy they want you to explain. You might want to talk to your lawyer before talking to the company. It’s the bankruptcy. My defamation case is all public info though.
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Jul 29, 2021 06:19
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Very weirdly with the ex company of mine that got acquired, the VP of engineering is getting contact info for ex employees who hold shares. Why the heck would a VP of engineering be doing this, don't they have accountants or legal counsel who would be doing it? My first thought is maybe they still have us on the books as employees to juice headcount and just don't want us blowing the scam 
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Jul 29, 2021 06:37
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Sundae posted:It doesn’t hurt to be cynical on PIPs. While I have personally assigned AND cleared a PIP to one of my direct reports, But you are a GOOD manager, and look at that post history. I agree with you in what you are saying. I've never put anyone on an official PIP because in the places where that was a thing that meant "okay we'll figure out how to fire them ASAP" but I've certainly done it informally in the manner YOU are talking about an actual PIP.......to help them understand what measurable goals must be achieved. They are now still working at my last place and a manager......the thing they always wanted to be but needed help understanding that as much as new projects are super fun......you need to follow through and complete them all the way to the end. I'm proud of him for finally getting this and being able to move up to where he wanted to be.
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Jul 29, 2021 06:55
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Eric the Mauve posted:PIPs for the purpose of termination (so, most of them) will usually include subjective language ("employee will improve interactions with others", "employee will demonstrate more professional behavior," etc.) That's your tell that they have already decided you will fail the PIP. Can verify that a real PIP will have specific goals. I nearly sacked someone once for being quite staggeringly idle; since that was the problem, I set her a bunch of specific poo poo to do in the PIP, she did it and came off the PIP. Exemplary work from her after that.
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Jul 29, 2021 09:00
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Beefeater1980 posted:Can verify that a real PIP will have specific goals. So I had the meeting. One of the specific goals mentioned is "take less medical leave". It's measurable AND specific!
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Jul 29, 2021 11:10
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Comstar posted:So I had the meeting. oh boy
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Jul 29, 2021 11:25
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Comstar posted:So I had the meeting. Are you in a place with some protections? Otherwise: 
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Jul 29, 2021 11:32
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Yeah dude, get out of there. I mean, here in the UK you wouldn't mix attendance stuff in with a PIP, because your performance is not the same thing as your attendance not being in line with absence policies. They're stacking stuff up so they can definitely get you on SOMETHING. Start printing CVs and getting job applications in and do the bare minimum at work because nothing you do will be enough.
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Jul 29, 2021 12:12
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Fil5000 posted:Yeah dude, get out of there. I mean, here in the UK you wouldn't mix attendance stuff in with a PIP, because your performance is not the same thing as your attendance not being in line with absence policies. As a power move ask your boss for pointers on your cv
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Jul 29, 2021 12:23
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Comstar posted:So I had the meeting. And illegal almost everywhere, even in the US. Talk to a lawyer yesterday.
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Jul 29, 2021 12:40
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Motronic posted:But you are a GOOD manager, and look at that post history.
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Jul 29, 2021 12:51
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Eric the Mauve posted:And illegal almost everywhere, even in the US. Talk to a lawyer yesterday. I had a similar situation in 2013 and the lawyer i talked to didn’t think I had a case
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Jul 29, 2021 13:16
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Boiled Water posted:As a power move ask your boss for pointers on your cv Heh, one of my previous direct reports has recently been told that her role is being made redundant as the CEO decided to outsource the HR department. While informing her of the redundancy, the CEO asked her if there was anything he could do to help. She asked him to not have to work the last week of her 2 week notice period and just be paid out. He said no, but he'd be glad to help her with her resume!
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Jul 29, 2021 13:38
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Comstar posted:So I had the meeting. This reads like, “we will fire you if you exercise your rights under FMLA, etc.” I’m not the type to say lawyer up, but might be worthwhile consulting a lawyer or two that specialize in employment law. Either way you need to be searching for a new job yesterday.
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Jul 29, 2021 13:44
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Eric the Mauve posted:And illegal almost everywhere, even in the US. Talk to a lawyer yesterday. Pillowpants posted:I had a similar situation in 2013 and the lawyer i talked to didn’t think I had a case Just the same, doesn't hurt to try. Comedy option: have a meeting with HR and conference in your doctor.
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Jul 29, 2021 13:47
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Comstar posted:So I had the meeting. Your main priority should be to find a new job. If you have time and money for a side quest, lawyer up and hang 'em all.
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Jul 29, 2021 13:53
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Pillowpants posted:I had a similar situation in 2013 and the lawyer i talked to didn’t think I had a case Was it similar so far as they gave you a written document that any reasonable person will read to say "If you exercise your FMLA rights we will fire you"?
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Jul 29, 2021 13:56
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Comstar posted:So I had the meeting. I'm not a lawyer but am generally familiar with federal employment litigation. This is not legal advice. Eric the Mauve posted:And illegal almost everywhere, even in the US. Talk to a lawyer yesterday. Do this. In the US tho, at least federally, FMLA only applies to companies of a certain size. If you're in the USA and need help finding an employment attorney PM me with your state and city or general area. LMK how many employees they have. Keep copies of everything. If you signed any handbooks, any paperwork you submitted as part of taking medical leave, any emails you sent regarding absences, etc. Get copies now. Don't take anything you're not normally privledged. Also, to the best of your abilities, fulfill the performance parts of your PIP. Send CYA emails. If anything, that you appear to be building a case could net you some severance (if they're not loving dumb).
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Jul 29, 2021 14:11
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Making "don't take medical leave" part of a PIP is persuasive evidence they are, in fact, pretty loving dumb though
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Jul 29, 2021 14:23
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Eric the Mauve posted:Making "don't take medical leave" part of a PIP is persuasive evidence they are, in fact, pretty loving dumb though Yea honestly if I was a plaintiffs attorney and they were in the US I'd be PMing them because lol Gonna be hilarious when it turns out that Comstar is in the USA, notified them of a medical/psych issue and they essentially are refusing to make reasonable accommodations for a disability. Gonna be double hilarious when they're construed as retaliating due to that disability and due to using leave covered under FMLA. Company being decent (CYA) story time: When I started at a big defense co I worked above a machine shop in a very dingy building. I have an allergy/sensitivity to something in most machine coolants likely from my time spent in machine shops, it causes chronic sinus infections. Within 3 weeks of starting work I got one. I sent an email to my boss explaining the situation and accidentally used the trigger word "accommodation" when I requested to be moved to a nearby building. I hit send and went off to a meeting. I came back an hour later to an empty desk. I thought I had been robbed, there was NOTHING there. Popping open my laptop I had ~20 emails related to the move, emails going up to a director level checking on me, all from a company where getting sharpies or a laptop on your first day was hard. Anyway I didn't get sick again for a long time after the move. They covered their rear end and treated me right.
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Jul 29, 2021 14:48
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All of this PIP talk reminds me of the time my wife's old company just absolutely ate poo poo because of their incompetent HR department. They hired a guy to be the head of a department, even though his management experience was thin and in a different field. During his six month probation period, he didn't do anything, not even hold a single meeting with his department (~15 people). So they decided to give him another three months to figure it out. Nothing changed, but he was now a permanent employee! When they told him he needed to actually work, he filed for medical leave and just never came back and I think it took 9 months to fire him.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:25
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greazeball posted:All of this PIP talk reminds me of the time my wife's old company just absolutely ate poo poo because of their incompetent HR department. They hired a guy to be the head of a department, even though his management experience was thin and in a different field. During his six month probation period, he didn't do anything, not even hold a single meeting with his department (~15 people). So they decided to give him another three months to figure it out. Nothing changed, but he was now a permanent employee! When they told him he needed to actually work, he filed for medical leave and just never came back and I think it took 9 months to fire him.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:36
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greazeball posted:All of this PIP talk reminds me of the time my wife's old company just absolutely ate poo poo because of their incompetent HR department. They hired a guy to be the head of a department, even though his management experience was thin and in a different field. During his six month probation period, he didn't do anything, not even hold a single meeting with his department (~15 people). So they decided to give him another three months to figure it out. Nothing changed, but he was now a permanent employee! When they told him he needed to actually work, he filed for medical leave and just never came back and I think it took 9 months to fire him. That guy owns. Bringing down HR from within and gettin paaaaaaid
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Jul 29, 2021 15:37
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How do you go six months without meeting your entire department? What was his manager doing?
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Jul 29, 2021 15:44
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Chaotic Flame posted:How do you go six months without meeting your entire department? What was his manager doing? Well the new hire was completely new to the company and culture and just needed some time to settle in. Also, the previous person in the job only lasted a month or two and just disappeared so there was no handover to speak of. Why would you waste time meeting the team in that situation when you can just meet with the guy who hired you and complain about how lazy and unmotivated your team is and how you just can't figure out what they do all day.
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Jul 29, 2021 15:50
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So my current project is a poo poo-show. We have to approve an old raw material immediately. Supply chain has known about it since last Thursday and the plant we support will shut down next Tuesday. Our timeline for the project is as follows: Thursday-Wednesday: Shipping clerk sits on the sample because ???? Wednesday: Shipping clerk ships sample ground instead of next day because the paperwork is easier. Friday afternoon: Sample arrives, chemist runs reactions. Friday evening: Review results and pass/deny production using this old raw material. Monday: Only operator who can run it returns from vacation and runs production scale reaction. Monday pm: Ship material to finished good plant, hot shot if necessary. Tuesday, 3:00 am, plant shuts down unless material gets there. Seems like a smart use of time, right? Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jul 29, 2021 |
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Jul 29, 2021 17:25
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Either firing that shipping clerk or getting them help so they're not having 90 hours of work crammed into each week seems like a good step to take here.
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Jul 29, 2021 17:45
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I am not a lawyer, blah blah, but also remember that in some states, the sole recourse you get from an illegal termination suit is that you get the job back... so they can turn around find a better cause to fire you for later. I don't know what state the OP is in and I'm not a lawyer anyway, but it's often not as clear-cut as just "lawyer up" because even if you do, the win might not be worth it anyway. If "take less medical leave" was in your PIP meeting, get the gently caress out of that company ASAP. You don't want to work there anyway.
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Jul 29, 2021 17:59
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Definitely talk to a lawyer, OP, but don't go in with any expectations of them. Even if it's a slam dunk case, it may still not be worth pursuing. But it is 100% worth getting the consult.
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Jul 29, 2021 18:24
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Any of you guys deal with a teammate or a coworker that hoards and controls all the important work to the detriment of the organization and coworkers? I work with a woman who does this in a very small group of enterprise software development managers. Effectively myself, her, one other, and our manager drive the cost, schedule, and performance of our primary products for the CEO. Between us, we manage nearly a billion dollar portfolio if you include costs of procurement and supporting functions. Anyways, I’m close to quitting because this woman has hoarded all the responsibilities and she refuses to delegate or share. Every time she gets overwhelmed (frequently) she causes a poo poo storm and blames everyone else. Bosses think only she is amazing because she’s the only person engaging with other vendors and contracted developers that work with us. She monopolized contract management. She loves letting problems escalate and then acting as queen savior by forcing people to provide plans, schedule, and solutions to her. This prevents me from developing and learning in my own area. Every time I try to grow beyond my narrow area (the least desirable but critical programs) she blocks. My manager is at her mercy because he is new and will rotate in a year or two somewhere else. Where responsibilities overlap, she uses passive aggressive tactics as leverage. For example she ignores my requests to collaborate on single resources that both our programs need, such as a test site for software integration. For weeks she will ignore my request to collaborate then go to our boss’s boss and say that I am putting her in a tough position by not working together and as a result there is going to be x delay and y cost overruns on project z. People think she is smart and hard working but up close she is a control freak that is inefficient. Over time she has failed to deliver and bogged the system down. Very hard to push back because everyone outside our small group thinks she walks on water. She has been here longer than me also. I don’t know what to do. Howard Phillips fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 29, 2021 |
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Jul 29, 2021 18:45
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Short answer:  Long answer: Document everything. All your requests for collaboration or additional responsibility should be in email form. If she doesn't respond for a few days, send another email with a "gentle reminder" so that there's a clear papertrail of you asking and her blowing you off. This way when she goes to the boss to  about how you refuse to work with her, you can confidently say "I've been trying to get her to work with me for weeks and gotten no response, I can loop you into the email thread if you'd like." If she's still being protected even after you can demonstrably prove she's the problem, then see the short answer as you next level of recourse.e. And let me clarify, the reason I say the short answer is to just find a new job is because even if you do manage to prove on paper that she's the problem and the boss backs you on this, it does not sound like she's going to take it well at all and will go even harder in on making your job and life miserable. Sydin fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jul 29, 2021 |
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Jul 29, 2021 18:53
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Howard Phillips posted:Any of you guys deal with a teammate or a coworker that hoards and controls all the important work to the detriment of the organization and coworkers? is the only correct answer.If I was in your shoes, and I had to stay because of some reason, I'd ask your manager directly for the resources you require to do the tasks you're assigned. I'd project manage the poo poo out of the stuff you're directly assigned and ignore everything else and let poo poo fall as it may. Since your manager is lazy and incompetent, you want to make it easier for him to just give you the poo poo you need so you'll gently caress off. Barring that, I'd build soft power by helping others in the organization with their needs, and by making laser-targeted asks of them for the poo poo you absolutely need. Do as much prep as possible so you're making it as easy as possible for them to help you. Use your people skills so that they walk away from every interaction with you feeling positive about themselves. Your goal is to make it easier on every level for them to interact with you vs your colleague. From there, you can probably be a lot more effective. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 29, 2021 |
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Jul 29, 2021 19:11
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To be blunt, the manager doesn't get it and doesn't care, and I doubt you have the political capital or skill to wage a war against her and win. Your best play is to find another job.
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Jul 29, 2021 20:15
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Howard Phillips posted:I don’t know what to do. Sydin posted:Short answer: Yea most likely this "Document everything" tactic blows back on the dude. "Document everything" is the right answer for Comstar as doing that could get them a nice severance or be used in litigation. I bet he doesn't know the details as to why things are the way they are as he solely blames this cunning maleficent for blocking his occupational growth. Every time I've heard that story, which is a common one, the person telling it doesnt really understand their environment. Document everything to undermine her story has a good chance of not working and him making an enemy of someone with political capital. Whether he should sever or not, idk. If he wants to grow his career, he needs to figure out a way to get those additional responsibilities without trying to drag down someone outranking him politically. If his manager wont go to bat for him, which he stated, he's in a tough spot. Maybe sever will work but theres some nuance to when external promotions work. Easier for an IC though, which he is. So thats a good card to hold. Dik Hz posted:You don't have a coworker problem; you have a manager problem. [...] I edited down to the parts I agree with but I strongly agree with these parts. The key takeaway: If possible, take ownership of your career. These are reasonable complaints and I am sorry you didnt win the manager or work culture lottery. If you dont want to move companies, find a job that needs doing that other people don't like and which is considered a stepping stone for promotion and do it well enough that people two levels above you feel happy you are there. EDIT: And BTW making friends with that evil manager is something to consider. Not knowing that person and not believing your mental model of them is accurate, I can't actually say whether this is a good or bad idea. I had a program manager who I thought was a real hard rear end who didnt understand my groups function at all but wanted us to be accountable for bad planning we were excluded from. Then, I got a thing that led to us working together quite a bit and hes actually a pretty competent dude. Once I had his ear, I could inform him about what we could do to accommodate his requests and everyone was better off. EDIT 2: Basically this book will tell you what to do: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Reason-Using-Emotions-Negotiate/dp/0143037781 CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jul 29, 2021 |
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Jul 29, 2021 22:07
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Thanks for feedback and helpful recommendations. I'm gonna start preparing to transition out. In the meantime I will be a "team player," and continue supporting everyone with a smile. It's obvious there is little growth for me here unless this woman leaves (seems unlikely). As noted, I absolutely don't have the political leverage to push back. The cliques here that support her annoy me, and they would be tolerable if it wasn't working against my career development.
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Jul 29, 2021 22:36
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