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I don't care about this procedure one way or the other, but I'm really really keen to pay a few hundred bucks to have it done, and I'm really mad that other people have different opinions about it!
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Aug 19, 2014 18:54
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VitalSigns posted:I don't care about this procedure one way or the other, but I'm really really keen to pay a few hundred bucks to have it done, and I'm really mad that other people have different opinions about it! Do I seem that mad? I'm a little annoyed by the dramatics. Female genital mutilation? Really? EDIT: Does that make me a misandrist?
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Aug 19, 2014 18:55
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Johnny Cache Hit posted:my dick:  that poo poo
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Aug 19, 2014 19:04
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There exist a comparable procedure for females but apparently it's a huge deal for the people who "don't care" about circumcision, I wonder why that is?
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Aug 19, 2014 19:05
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30.5 Days posted:Do I seem that mad? I'm a little annoyed by the dramatics. Female genital mutilation? Really? FGM is massively worse than male circumcision. However, a procedure which would be analogous to it, the removal of the clitoral hood, is illegal* for very a good reason: that is, why the gently caress would you want to cut off part of a baby's genitals when its medically unneccessary? Would like to agree with the other posters who have noted how bizarre this practice is from a european perspective. Edit: *Obviously I'm talking about it being performed on an infant here. Encolpio fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 19:06
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30.5 Days posted:Do I seem that mad? It's more that you obviously do care about this, or else you wouldn't be coming back to post in a thread devoted to this so you can talk about how you plan to drop a chunk of change to do it one day. "Oh why do you even care about it, it doesn't matter" is the boringest last resort of people who are emotionally committed to defending some tradition when they can't think of an actual good reason to explain why they want to keep doing it. This whole "the only people who care about this are whiny circumcised males posting on the internet from their fainting couches" thing is obviously false, because if nobody actually cared one way or another about circumcision then most Americans wouldn't be doing it. I don't care whether my baby's ears are pierced or not, so I don't get it done. And if someone told me I shouldn't have it done, I'd be like "okay fine, wasn't gonna" because I don't care. If I shot back "No way, you weirdo, I'm gonna get her ears pierced anyway, God why are you people making a big deal about this" then yeah I probably do care.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:21
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VitalSigns posted:It's more that you obviously do care about this, or else you wouldn't be coming back to post in a thread devoted to this so you can talk about how you plan to drop a chunk of change to do it one day. I do care about people on the internet intensely interested in the state of my genitals, yeah. I will say that if someone made a law tomorrow, saying that non-Semitic religions can't get their kids circumcised, I'd just suck it up and learn to wash a foreskin. That was an unfortunate wording. But I would have a problem with people banning Jewish & Muslim circumcisions. Not only is it like meaningless targeting of a harmless cultural practice, I've noticed that these sorts of things do actually accompany real anti-semitism. If you can't understand why a Catholic would get a circumcision, I can understand that- all I'll say is that inertia combined with the fact that this has literally never affected my life at all make a powerful combination. If you're going to get up in arms about poo poo that's actually an important cultural practice for some religions that seems a bit more problematic. But more than this, I actually don't believe that the source of anti-circumcision wankery is coming from circumcised dudes who think foreskins look cool, that's a pretty deep minority. Mostly it seems to come from REALLY INTENSE UNCIRCUMCISED EUROPEANS and I've seen it around the internet for several years, basically any time this topic comes up. Like it gets really weird, I know a few months ago, one dude was explaining in some comment section that he was a better lover than anyone who's ever been circumcised because YOUR DICK NEEDS TO BE WHOLE MAN WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU. And you can see it in this thread with inexplicable comparisons to female genital mutilation and other assorted fuckery. Please stop caring deeply about the state of my genitals, it's weird and it puts me on edge to a point where I'm writing in this thread. At that point it stops being a conversation about a cultural practice and starts being a conversation about my dick, and yeah I'm gonna respond to that.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:30
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30.5 Days posted:I do care about people on the internet intensely interested in the state of my genitals, yeah. Saying that a certain type of surgery shouldn't be performed unless its medicaly necessary or until the person who it's being performed on is old enough to consent does not amount to being obsessed with your dick.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:37
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Encolpio posted:Saying that a certain type of surgery shouldn't be performed unless its medicaly necessary or until the person who it's being performed on is old enough to consent does not amount to being obsessed with your dick. Too bad that's not the extent of the posts in this thread, which I explained at length in the 99% of my post you didn't quote.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:38
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30.5 Days posted:I do care about people on the internet intensely interested in the state of my genitals, yeah. 30.5 Days posted:But I would have a problem with people banning Jewish & Muslim circumcisions. Not only is it like meaningless targeting of a harmless cultural practice, I've noticed that these sorts of things do actually accompany real anti-semitism. If you can't understand why a Catholic would get a circumcision, I can understand that- all I'll say is that inertia combined with the fact that this has literally never affected my life at all make a powerful combination. If you're going to get up in arms about poo poo that's actually an important cultural practice for some religions that seems a bit more problematic. 30.5 Days posted:YOUR DICK NEEDS TO BE WHOLE MAN WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU. And cut guys ITT are blathering on about how everyone else's dicks look like gross dog dicks, so uh, maybe toughen up?
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Aug 19, 2014 19:41
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I'll rate bodily integrity above religious rights. Suck it up Jews and Muslims and do it when the kid is old enough to understand and agree, its not like you haven't changed enough religious tenets to meet modern day notions. Then again I'm apparently a REALLY INTENSE UNCIRCUMCISED EUROPEAN instead of a guy who thinks that you thinking that you have the right over your child's dick's cosmetic look is hosed up so what do I know?30.5 Days posted:I do care about people on the internet intensely interested in the state of my genitals, yeah. You seem to be fine with yours, I am not interested in them. However, what do you say to people who care about their OWN genitals, AKA people who have been circumcised as an infant and if they could have chosen it themselves, would not have done it?
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Aug 19, 2014 19:51
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You just wish you were circumcised but lack the balls to do it now so you want all future children to have a disgusting smegma dick like yours.
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Aug 19, 2014 19:54
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MeLKoR posted:You just wish you were circumcised but lack the balls to do it now so you want all future children to have a disgusting smegma dick like yours. Well, I want them to have the option to have a disgusting smegma dick. 
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Aug 19, 2014 19:56
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You know, probably most religious people don't even really care. poo poo like that seems as abstruse as sacrificing a goat or engaging in ritual bathing after menstruation, which are things most religious people are ok leaving behind. If there wasn't a party for it, I doubt most would bother. I have no idea how serious the dour, no-fun Muslims are about it, but they're probably a special case, like those Hasids who still sacrifice chickens and live on Manhattan.
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Aug 19, 2014 20:49
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MeLKoR posted:You just wish you were circumcised but lack the balls to do it now so you want all future children to have a disgusting smegma dick like yours. yesssss, please go on about how much of a burden you believe washing yourself to be
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Aug 19, 2014 20:53
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Ernie Muppari posted:yesssss, please go on about how much of a burden you believe washing yourself to be I get fed up washing behind my ears so I cut them off.
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Aug 19, 2014 20:54
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Jack Gladney posted:You know, probably most religious people don't even really care. poo poo like that seems as abstruse as sacrificing a goat or engaging in ritual bathing after menstruation, which are things most religious people are ok leaving behind. If there wasn't a party for it, I doubt most would bother. I have no idea how serious the dour, no-fun Muslims are about it, but they're probably a special case, like those Hasids who still sacrifice chickens and live on Manhattan. Yeah, no evidence but Jews probably don't care about the sign of their Covenant with God.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:09
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Remember, only use European medicine, because America is bad and stuff.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:26
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7c Nickel posted:Yeah, no evidence but Jews probably don't care about the sign of their Covenant with God. Only the really weird ones still tie strings around the block to trick God into thinking they're inside all day. Same thing here.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:28
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Trabisnikof posted:Remember, only use European medicine, because America is bad and stuff. it's true! 
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Aug 19, 2014 22:16
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Trabisnikof posted:Remember, only use European medicine, because America is bad and stuff. Do you really think circumcision is "American medicine"?
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Aug 19, 2014 22:37
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DarkCrawler posted:Do you really think circumcision is "American medicine"?
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Aug 19, 2014 22:54
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Jack Gladney posted:Only the really weird ones still tie strings around the block to trick God into thinking they're inside all day. Same thing here. I can't tell if the Jewish God is particularly thick, or if he's a jovial lawyer-type who loves a good technicality.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:25
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VitalSigns posted:I can't tell if the Jewish God is particularly thick, or if he's a jovial lawyer-type who loves a good technicality. It's the latter. There's a story of a particularly smart and worry Pharisee out-arguing God about the laws he set down. The Talmud posted:On that day Rabbi Eliezer brought forward all of the arguments in the -EDIT- TL;DR Eliezer says "I'm right and God agrees with me, here are some miracles to prove it." The other rabbis say "'God agrees with me' is a lovely argument, and it's not God's place to have a say here anyway!" To which God ultimately agrees and admits it. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 23:35
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DarkCrawler posted:Do you really think circumcision is "American medicine"? In so much as when the American medical establishment says it has medical benefits and is safer and healthier when preformed on newborns. But quick, someone post *reasons* that all this science must be discounted out of hand. Its funny that some of the people people to so quickly refute a ton of medical evidence with their own opinion literally don't know how childbirth work.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:36
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Trabisnikof posted:Its funny that some of the people people to so quickly refute a ton of medical evidence with their own opinion literally don't know how childbirth work. yeah seriously hows the babby going ot fly out you are dick if froskein's in teheh way?
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Aug 20, 2014 00:28
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DarkCrawler posted:Can we stop this "nobody cares" Outside the Internet few people even realize anyone cares. I've read a dozen articles over the years written by people who heard about groups like RECAP (RECApture your Penis) and the universal response is "what the gently caress". The half dozen times I've mentioned it to friends the response is the same. I'll give you that the people who do care care so loving much that they care enough for a couple dozen people each.
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Aug 20, 2014 01:04
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I don't get why people are falling all over themselves to say how little they care about this topic. Truly, it is not one of the top 10 or likely even 100 issues of our time, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed or that even a minor potential injustice shouldn't be addressed.
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Aug 20, 2014 02:21
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Ernie Muppari posted:yeah seriously hows the babby going ot fly out you are dick if froskein's in teheh way? Don't umbilical shame me!
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Aug 20, 2014 02:50
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Toasticle posted:Outside the Internet few people even realize anyone cares. I've read a dozen articles over the years written by people who heard about groups like RECAP (RECApture your Penis) and the universal response is "what the gently caress". The half dozen times I've mentioned it to friends the response is the same. Yeah, sorry. All Jews. All Muslims. Half of my family. My side has at best few thousand people insisting on that people don't get to do whatever they want to their children's dicks. You have couple of dozen million insisting that they have an ultimate authority over their children's dicks. The irrationality isn't one-sided, your side is the irrational one. I can't find any other description to well, describe someone who is willing to actually put effort on the fact that they can decide how their children's dicks look then "irrational" - since it has no medical or cultural difference one way or another. So yeah, once again looking forward to how the pro-infant circumcision people paint me as the irrational one since I have the crazy idea going on that everyone should be allowed to decide what happens to their own dick. Oh wait, that idea isn't actually crazy anywhere else then third world countries and United States! Good company you have there. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 03:29
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Trent posted:I don't get why people are falling all over themselves to say how little they care about this topic. There's discussing and there's assholes who repeatedly compare it to actual brutal female genital mutilation. That's not discussion that's OBUMMER IS TAKING YOUR FREEDOMS level of idiocy. Many if not most who had it done don't feel violated or mutilated and say as much and point out the people against it are taking it way the gently caress over the top, so you fall back on the tired "Wow you sure seem to care alot".
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Aug 20, 2014 03:36
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Toasticle posted:Outside the Internet few people even realize anyone cares. I've read a dozen articles over the years written by people who heard about groups like RECAP (RECApture your Penis) and the universal response is "what the gently caress". The half dozen times I've mentioned it to friends the response is the same. Ignorance on a topic doesn't mean that the topic is irrelevant (IGNORANCE?! I GOT SCIENTIFIC STUDIES FROM AFRICA THAT BLAH BLAH - i got it) You can use the same type of argument for most of the things discussed in D&D. Ask most people outside the internet about the plight of the people in Gaza and you'd get a 'who cares' or some talking point about rockets. Same with politics about a specific country outside of America. Everybody here can agree that female circumcision is barbaric and unnecessary but to the people in countries where it's prevalent, it's not. There's women who were subjected to having their lady bits chopped up with a loose razor blade that not only subject their daughters to the same thing but will defend the practice on camera. That same type of disconnect is happening here. You talk about how male circumcision is no big deal and how your dick still feels good but could you name all your dick parts? Explain what purpose a foreskin serves? Any complications that can come with circumcision? Read the wiki on FGM and you'll see all the same talking points you see here (It's cultural. It's religious. It's cleanliness. It's needed to not disgust the opposite sex. Serious complications are the exception according to studies) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 04:44
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Call Me Charlie posted:Ignorance on a topic doesn't mean that the topic is irrelevant (IGNORANCE?! I GOT SCIENTIFIC STUDIES FROM AFRICA THAT BLAH BLAH - i got it) Man I'm so glad someone decided to furnish an example of exactly what the gently caress I'm talking about. Quick question, if you guys are gonna compare circumcisions to FGM, can I compare it to the decision to give a kid an innie or outie belly button? Obviously giving a kid an innie is a moral outrage, outies can always get innies later.
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Aug 20, 2014 05:01
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30.5 Days posted:Man I'm so glad someone decided to furnish an example of exactly what the gently caress I'm talking about.
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Aug 20, 2014 05:14
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MeLKoR posted:Dude I think you missed his point. He didn't say circumcision was as drastic in it's physical effects, he said the defenses you guys put up are no different from what we hear from FGMed women. From this side of the pond it does look the same. He was pretty explicit about the fact that if I don't think circumcision is mutilation I must not understand how way important a foreskin is.
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Aug 20, 2014 05:18
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30.5 Days posted:He was pretty explicit about the fact that if I don't think circumcision is mutilation I must not understand how way important a foreskin is. Eh, not really. Earlier on, I was trying to point out how circumcision falls under the definition of mutilation to a guy who was having a meltdown about the use of the word. In my post towards you, I was trying to point out how the people who say that it's no big deal and their dick works just fine are, usually, the same people who don't know much about their penis or the procedure itself. Both are responses to people trying to marginalize it to the point where it's on par with getting your daughter's ears pierced at Wal-Mart, belly buttons and pee-wee football. (Which all sounds as nutty to me as you think people who conflate it with tattoos and female circumcision are) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 05:43
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Toasticle posted:Outside the Internet few people even realize anyone cares. I've read a dozen articles over the years written by people who heard about groups like RECAP (RECApture your Penis) and the universal response is "what the gently caress". The half dozen times I've mentioned it to friends the response is the same. Look at this guy being all apathetic and poo poo, scoring internet debating points like a motherfucker.
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Aug 20, 2014 05:55
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Call Me Charlie posted:
Again, comparing it to football isn't marginalizing it. Football has actual harms that come with it, sometimes very severe one. There's no comparison: playing football is far more harmful and causes far more serious bodily damage.
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Aug 20, 2014 11:38
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Toasticle posted:There's discussing and there's assholes who repeatedly compare it to actual brutal female genital mutilation. That's not discussion that's OBUMMER IS TAKING YOUR FREEDOMS level of idiocy. WE fall on the tired "wow you sure seem to care a lot"? Are you kidding me? It's the pro-infant circ side that's all "whateva" all the time when their side has literally tens of millions of people who would LOSE THEIR poo poo if they suddenly didn't have ultimate power over their son's dick. But het, instead of explaining why you think infant circumcision is neccessary you all could complain about that one guy talking about FGM! Again! Sure is easier then trying to face the utter lack of logic behind your position! Obdicut posted:Again, comparing it to football isn't marginalizing it. Football has actual harms that come with it, sometimes very severe one. There's no comparison: playing football is far more harmful and causes far more serious bodily damage. Yeah, there is no comparison. In one, a child is at least given the CHANCE to deny.
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Aug 20, 2014 12:04
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DarkCrawler posted:
Yes, you think that children can realistically give consent, which I think is an incredibly, depressingly naive view of the world. There are extremely good reasons why that is not something held to be true. There is one area where the desire of the child is actually determined, and that's in custody talks. In those cases, lots of testimony has to be given, including a lot of professional opinions, and it has to be argued in open court, and still there are obvious problems with actually determining what is an actual choice of the child and what is a reaction to their parents. quote:WE fall on the tired "wow you sure seem to care a lot"? Are you kidding me? It's the pro-infant circ side that's all "whateva" all the time when their side has literally tens of millions of people who would LOSE THEIR poo poo if they suddenly didn't have ultimate power over their son's dick. This is the weird hyperbole that makes the 'care a lot' thing ring true. Circumcision isn't 'ultimate power' over someone's dick. Nobody is saying that it would be okay to perform an operation that had the actual effect of reducing pleasure or making it harder to achieve orgasm. So it's really, really not about 'ultimate power', and putting it in those terms is just incredibly out of proportion.
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Aug 20, 2014 12:16
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