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cakesmith handyman posted:If I tripped over a pile of money, how much extra depth/height would I need to redo the ground floor (currently laminate on concrete slab) with liquid underfloor heating? Quite a bit. You want some insulation on top of the slab unless it already has some in it, I forced the builder to add a thin heat reflective barrier because I didn't trust that the heat wouldn't just sink away into the ground. Then a moisture barrier, that's thin too. Then the pipes go on, and you need at least 15 to 20mm on top of the pipes, so it comes out at around 40 to 50mm of screed. Then add your tile adhesive and tile, or other finished flooring.
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Jul 5, 2018 08:49
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cakesmith handyman posted:If I tripped over a pile of money, how much extra depth/height would I need to redo the ground floor (currently laminate on concrete slab) with liquid underfloor heating? I'm waiting for the day when someone creates an affordable 15mm diameter concrete tunnelling robot that can weave its way around an existing slab dragging a plastic pipe after it. Then houses like mine which sit on a massive concrete slab and still have quarry tiles throughout the downstairs will be sorted. my house is awesome in the summer as the floor stays lovely and cool all the time but I have to use a strategic collection of slippers and flip flops in the winter to walk downstairs.
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Jul 5, 2018 11:51
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cakesmith handyman posted:If I tripped over a pile of money, how much extra depth/height would I need to redo the ground floor (currently laminate on concrete slab) with liquid underfloor heating? I've had a quick look back in the thread and there's these two photos which might give an idea. If you look at this picture, the hop up by the door is sat on new slab. The old (uninsulated) hallway slab is the large part in the foreground. Under the door you can see the blocks forming the base of the entryway, the things that the two wood sheets are sat on. If you also look around the door you can see the frame covered in white plastic tape.  In this photo you can see the insulation bringing it up to the same level, and also can see the blocks I talked about.  So, you can get an idea of the thickness that goes from slab to insulation, and the screed covered that insulation AND the blocks, coming all the way up to the very lip of the door frame once the tiles were on. Top of slab to top of finished tile is something like 150mm at least.
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Jul 5, 2018 13:14
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If I didn't have 7'8” ceilings that would be worth considering, thanks.
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Jul 5, 2018 13:54
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We looked up heated floors when we built... this is in Japanese but the pictures are good. New build with full plumbing. (6-10mm + flooring) http://www.yukadanbou-kaiteki.com/yukadanbou/construction/sinchiku/ Remodel with water heater panels and flooring. (Old flooring + 6mm panels + 6mm new special flooring) http://www.yukadanbou-kaiteki.com/yukadanbou/construction/reform/ peanut fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jul 5, 2018 |
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Jul 5, 2018 15:18
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Jeherrin posted:Absolutely no free-floating anything, unless you want them to warp and stick out over time and weather exposure. All board ends must be affixed to something. That's what I was concerned about when I mentioned it. Nice to know I wasn't off-base.
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Jul 5, 2018 16:11
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For what it's worth, Levitt's original house-plans incorporated underfloor heating as the cheapest & most practical way to heat a 900-SF cape cod or rancher in 1949. Get really thick-rear end-walled 1/2" copper pipe & solder up a grid, lay it in the slab form & pour away. Took about 35-50-years for the concrete to eat away the copper until it leaked. Bonus for imitators of Levitt, who also though throwing the ductwork into the slab was genius...until the plumbing for the heat, the freshwater supplies, or the soil line  gave way.Those claims were fun. Nothing makes a grown woman cry like two tons of septic-soaked soil & broken concrete pyramided up in the middle of her living room.
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Jul 6, 2018 02:46
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PainterofCrap posted:For what it's worth, Levitt's original house-plans incorporated underfloor heating as the cheapest & most practical way to heat a 900-SF cape cod or rancher in 1949. Get really thick-rear end-walled 1/2" copper pipe & solder up a grid, lay it in the slab form & pour away. You work in insurance, right? Ever seen claims for modern UFH leaking in slabs?
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Jul 6, 2018 07:49
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cakesmith handyman posted:If I didn't have 7'8” ceilings that would be worth considering, thanks. I read this as 78" ceilings at first and was like, yikes. Honestly, though, I bet the drop ceiling in our finished basement isn't much higher, since when the dude renovated this place and excavated the dirt basement to put in a slab, he went the simplest route possible. I can't blame him, but it is why the ceilings are low and water can still get in after the exterior was waterproofed -- as the water table rises, it simply leaks into the gap between the stone walls (or up the stone walls themselves, as Wissahickon schist is basically a sponge) until it gets to the top of the slab. There's a part of me that would love to either underpin or bench the basement in order to gain some height, and honestly it would be enough just to do it to the finished half. And then I start thinking about how great it would be just to lift the whole damned thing about three feet so we could get a seamless foundation high enough to prevent any water intrusion. But then I remember that I don't have a vault of gold stashed down in said basement, and would at that point likely be better off just building a new house entirely. Anyway, with your relatively low ceilings, you could probably get away with putting down a thin layer of insulation and then something like Ecowarm board. It's low-profile (Warmboard is thicker and I believe is meant to replace subfloor completely, which you wouldn't need on slab) and the aluminum top layer would allow for a nice evenly-distributed heat.
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Jul 6, 2018 15:01
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I've been really struggling to work up the motivation to go outside and work this week.
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Jul 6, 2018 16:39
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OK well I bullied myself into starting and within minutes I was a puddle on the floor. I sat down and contemplated my own mortality for a bit, then put anything electric inside and went in. Too loving hot. Too loving humid. Can't do it.
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Jul 6, 2018 18:11
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Anyway, with your relatively low ceilings, you could probably get away with putting down a thin layer of insulation and then something like Ecowarm board. It's low-profile (Warmboard is thicker and I believe is meant to replace subfloor completely, which you wouldn't need on slab) and the aluminum top layer would allow for a nice evenly-distributed heat. Interesting thanks, I read the manual. Looks like I could bond directly to the slab, as there's a moisture barrier underneath it. Then it's either pad and new laminate or engineered hardwood directly over that. So I'd get away with only a 3/4" rise I floor level. Didn't Kastein make his own version of this? Just the plywood part anyway, I wonder what difference the aluminium actually makes.
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Jul 6, 2018 19:14
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cakesmith handyman posted:Interesting thanks, I read the manual. Looks like I could bond directly to the slab, as there's a moisture barrier underneath it. Then it's either pad and new laminate or engineered hardwood directly over that. So I'd get away with only a 3/4" rise I floor level. I believe he did, and I presume that the aluminum is used as a heat reflective layer to keep your heat from radiating into the foundation or floor below, depending on application.
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Jul 6, 2018 21:39
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Darchangel posted:I believe he did, and I presume that the aluminum is used as a heat reflective layer to keep your heat from radiating into the foundation or floor below, depending on application. Depends, my suspended timber floors have UFH too and the alu is on the top to act as a heat spreader. Would not be surprised if the same was true of these things, as per below tetrapyloctomy posted:It's low-profile (Warmboard is thicker and I believe is meant to replace subfloor completely, which you wouldn't need on slab) and the aluminum top layer would allow for a nice evenly-distributed heat.
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Jul 6, 2018 22:00
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Darchangel posted:I believe he did, and I presume that the aluminum is used as a heat reflective layer to keep your heat from radiating into the foundation or floor below, depending on application.
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Jul 6, 2018 23:59
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I've put down 82mm polywhatnot insulation panels on top of the subfloor concrete slab. I've been told thats not actually enough but noone is ever checking this so I'm not too fussed about that. Some of my issues were.... weird. Like my screed is going to be 55mm as thats as fat as I can go now and I was told thats the minimum. I have 16mm underfloor heating pipes which have a bend ratio that gives around 160mm as the tightest diameter you can go to, I'm mostly sticking to 200mm except where the weird rear end conversion I'm doing doesn't allow that and I'll do a lightbulb turn as necessary. Thing was I was planning on breaking through walls, so in air, out of the screed. Is that a thing? I've changed it now and am not doing that, I just wonder if that was an issue or not? An old plumber mate I spoke to but wasn't really up on it was mostly concerned about equalizing the lengths of the zones. But my dad who had the first underfloor heating in the world and is an expert gently caress off says we can just balance any discrepancies there on the valves on the manifold.  Also. I have no idea. I'm going to be using a heat pump. How many actual pumps you need to pump the water? Every manufacturer/fitter/salesperson you speak to offers contradictory advice on everything to the point where I've decided with the embedded knowledge in my head, whatever I do can't be too wrong and just loving do it cos anyone you pay to do it will be either all the way wrong or alternatively all the way wrong some other way. Whereas dumbass me can only be a bit wrong in any direction. also I bought 50m of pex al pex 32mm pipe to run to the heatpump but only used 18m. so anyone want 32m of that?
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Jul 7, 2018 02:37
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I've been on my hands and knees (and broken ankle) transcribing that pattern onto the actual floor all day today with my massive felt tip pen so bear in mind if you think thats wrong I will kill you.
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Jul 7, 2018 02:41
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Jaded Burnout posted:You work in insurance, right? Ever seen claims for modern UFH leaking in slabs? One. in northern New Jersey...but it was a weird install error. The plumber didn't factor into his dining room set-up that he ran his loops too close to an outside wall with an 8' wide sliding glass door and (I believe) relied upon convection alone for that part of the circuit. There was a very hard freeze (unusually low temps for an extended period of time in New Jersey) and the loops in front of the slider cracked. Water seeped up through the slab and wiped out a very expensive engineered-wood floor above it. He should have had that room on a more frequent cycle, or it's own little recirc pump.
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Jul 7, 2018 03:32
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I've put down 82mm polywhatnot insulation panels on top of the subfloor concrete slab. I've been told thats not actually enough but noone is ever checking this so I'm not too fussed about that. I'm a bit  about how little insulation is on top of some of my slabs but it's done now so oh well.NotJustANumber99 posted:Some of my issues were.... weird. Like my screed is going to be 55mm as thats as fat as I can go now and I was told thats the minimum. I have 16mm underfloor heating pipes which have a bend ratio that gives around 160mm as the tightest diameter you can go to, I'm mostly sticking to 200mm except where the weird rear end conversion I'm doing doesn't allow that and I'll do a lightbulb turn as necessary. Sounds fine. I had to go thinner in a few spots and got lucky that the screed didn't crack. NotJustANumber99 posted:Thing was I was planning on breaking through walls, so in air, out of the screed. Is that a thing? I've changed it now and am not doing that, I just wonder if that was an issue or not? What, just to get the pipes from one place to another? Yeah it's fine, mine run all over the place because it's across two floors. NotJustANumber99 posted:An old plumber mate I spoke to but wasn't really up on it was mostly concerned about equalizing the lengths of the zones. But my dad who had the first underfloor heating in the world and is an expert gently caress off says we can just balance any discrepancies there on the valves on the manifold. Your dad is right. Make sure you measure your loops as you install them, though, as you need that info to calculate your desired flow rate. My builder didn't, the rear end in a top hat. NotJustANumber99 posted:How many actual pumps you need to pump the water? Every manufacturer/fitter/salesperson you speak to offers contradictory advice on everything to the point where I've decided with the embedded knowledge in my head, whatever I do can't be too wrong and just loving do it cos anyone you pay to do it will be either all the way wrong or alternatively all the way wrong some other way. Whereas dumbass me can only be a bit wrong in any direction. One. Check back further in the thread and you can see the one pump I have attached to my manifold, and that's pumping 200sqm. NotJustANumber99 posted:also I bought 50m of pex al pex 32mm pipe to run to the heatpump but only used 18m. so anyone want 32m of that? No thanks, I already have 300m of cat7a that I can't use. NotJustANumber99 posted:
OK so the only thing is, based on the install instructions for the stuff that went into my house (prowarm), it stated that if at all possible you should site the manifold at the center of the house. My other question would be why have so many zones, and in that pattern? Zones are (to my understanding) only used to turn areas on and off, so I'm not sure why you're bothering to have three zones in the large kitchen/diner (that's open plan, right?) since you're not going to get effective separation of the effect of having one or other on. Having that one area off to the left heated by 3 different zones is a bit wack too, it's going to be all inconsistent in temperature because it's heated by effectively three different rooms' thermostats. Likewise tying your bottom left room to a patch of the kitchen seems like a strange choice. If it were me (and I'm no expert) I would use 4 zones; bed 1, bed 2, kitchen/diner/hallway, utility/toilet. If there's walls not shown in the picture that's a bit of a different story.
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Jul 7, 2018 08:22
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You know I hadn't given a moment's thought to actually connecting this to my current heating, I think I naively assumed I'd plug it into the current radiator pipes. I guess that doesn't work...
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Jul 7, 2018 13:26
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cakesmith handyman posted:You know I hadn't given a moment's thought to actually connecting this to my current heating, I think I naively assumed I'd plug it into the current radiator pipes. I guess that doesn't work... I mean, it's not that different to that, honestly. You connect a cold and hot feed to a manifold with a pump attached, and connect your pipes to the manifold. The manifold then has either manual or automatic valve adjusters on it depending on your preference (it comes with manual ones for setting it up). You use those to balance it and/or adjust the temperature in a room. In my case they'll be automatic ones attached to a little central control thinger which is then attached to thermostats in each room. If you're just doing one zone maybe you could do it more simply. Just bear in mind that the length of pipe might be too much for your boiler's internal pump to handle on its own.
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Jul 7, 2018 13:34
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Keep your loop 1' away from the toilet drain (ie - outside the footprint of the toilet itself). Depending on how hot you run it and how close you get, it can cause issues with the wax ring (if you use a wax ring).
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Jul 7, 2018 17:48
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Here's where I started this morning, pretty much abandoned where it stood. Intended to sit behind this end of the board  It was a real bastard to fit.  And the right hand side  One other thing I tried out is "builders' crayons" which it turns out is not what they write contracts with, but are used for marking up lumber and other such things. I got some because I was having a hard time seeing pencil marks on this blue membrane. Here you can see the yellow marks next to quite a thick (and yet hard to see) pencil line.  Around about this time my neighbour started working on his outbuilding.  I noticed these drip marks on the wood from the recent rain, decided it was probably from the tar-based temporary cover on the parapet. It *should* come out OK but I didn't want any more, so I removed the cover. It's not great to leave the parapet exposed but there's not much rain right now and technically there's another roof underneath.    While I was up there I removed the protective covering on the windows, since the rendering is finished back here now.  It was midday by this point so I chucked a (water resistant) dust sheet over the work table to keep off most of the sun and went inside for a break.  Found this rather large moth among all the other insects trapped by my skylight wells.  Took a few minutes to set up my new toolbelt, it's a nice upgrade.  While I was doing that the door went and it was my new day bag, so I can stash everything not in active use.  Toolbelt & day bag upgrades: £72.62 Total so far: £152,599.33 Time to work on this section. First up, remove the builder's batten which is a) too thin and b) pointing the wrong way. Cathartic.   Encountered a minor design flaw with my saw   Slow going drilling holes for the batten as they needed to be quite close to the edge of the block. The upper blocks were fine but whenever I drilled into these lower blocks they immediately crumbled.  Finally got it done  So, given that's all I managed today as you can see it's excruciatingly slow going. Back on it tomorrow. Bonus rat pic 
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Jul 7, 2018 17:59
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Jaded Burnout posted:stuff Cheers. A bunch of good stuff there. Your slab based underfloor heating is upstairs too? I didn't know you could do that. So like the same pipes travel up through walls and back into a first floor slab? Or not in a slab upstairs? I'm very confused. The reason I have so many zones is the plumber mate I talked to ages ago said it was vital to have similiar length zones. All I really want is (bed - bed - rest of house) so three, but pipe runs made it such that the rest of the house should be divided in three. To be honest maybe two by the time I was done but... Also I've bought the pipe in 100m rolls so 5 times <100m works out.
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Jul 7, 2018 23:46
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Your slab based underfloor heating is upstairs too? I didn't know you could do that. So like the same pipes travel up through walls and back into a first floor slab? Or not in a slab upstairs? I'm very confused. The pipes sit in trays on top of insulation between the joists upstairs (and in a couple of rooms downstairs) but otherwise yes. NotJustANumber99 posted:The reason I have so many zones is the plumber mate I talked to ages ago said it was vital to have similiar length zones. All I really want is (bed - bed - rest of house) so three, but pipe runs made it such that the rest of the house should be divided in three. To be honest maybe two by the time I was done but... Also I've bought the pipe in 100m rolls so 5 times <100m works out. IMO your plumber mate is wrong, that's what a manifold is for, but I can only speak to my own setup.
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Jul 8, 2018 06:26
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I'm in Manchester and have been lifting the old patio up, digging it out and fitting a new patio this week and the heat is absolutely killing me, bad weather for DIY imo
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Jul 8, 2018 08:07
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minema posted:I'm in Manchester and have been lifting the old patio up, digging it out and fitting a new patio this week and the heat is absolutely killing me, bad weather for DIY imo Yeah, I only managed yesterday by breaking during the peak of the day, and drinking a litre of water every couple of hours.
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Jul 8, 2018 08:36
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Alrighty, starting off this morning where I left off yesterday. Need to fit a thicker batten on top of this one here. Is it plumb two ways? Is it gently caress.  First off need to trim the bottom of the existing batten. Made good use of some new kneepads for this.  Next, fitting the extra one. I'm not sure if I've gone through my process for this, but it involves taking a full length (5m) and setting it on the ground like this  Trim the top, then mark and trim the bottom, but put it back on the cut off piece. This allows me to mark and drill screw points at the right level without having to hold it off the ground.  Then when it's all done just kick the bottom piece out and discard  OK done. I'd only been at it for maybe half an hour at this point and I'd already gone through most of a litre of water.  Now for the *real* corner support, annoyingly the other post I added has bowed somewhat  Much easier since it's wood on wood (lol), even used a few of my 100mm screws so all three boards are attached to each other  Marked up drill points for the center support and fitted. The long right leg of the cross is there so I can see where the hole is once it's obscured by the batten.  It was right at this point that I remembered I hadn't trimmed the final thickness off the bottom of this piece, again, but I was already prepped for lunch so I left it for the moment. Requires taking it off, trimming, and putting back on, but that's not so bad because all the holes are lined up already.  I decided to start making use of some of my larger offcuts now, since I'd be about 4 or 5 lengths short if I kept using 5m lengths and cutting them down to the 3m height of the wall. Made use of some blutack for holding things in place while I busted out the drill. This is also when I stopped trying to be fancy with the drilling and lining up drill holes, and instead fitted a longer SDS+ bit and drilled straight through the batten and into the wall.   Next I wanted to try fitting the final left post on the main entrance. Lined it up, triple checked I was cutting my mitre correctly, and cut it. Then at the bottom I need to cut a gap around the lip of the door. Marked and cut a stencil. Looks like a dick lol   Several false starts and remarkings and I got it transferred correctly  Clamped it up so I could try cutting it with a handsaw  Gave it a test cut with the handsaw and I could immediately tell I didn't have the skills for it, so time to try the mitre saw. Set up for a 10º compound cut.  Nice clean cuts, 10º on the left, 5º on the right.  Marked up for the bottom cut  This is where I stopped loving around with the mitre saw and did it properly. JK lol    Time for a test fit. What do you mean I should've done a test fit two cuts ago?  Oops. Nevermind, I wasn't too happy with this piece anyway, it's a bit too knocked up for where it's going. I'll reuse it elsewhere. Mitre was a little off but I thought it might be, it's cut just a little long so I can adjust it, which I'll probably do on this piece for practice before cutting it up for the bottom piece of the left hand side. Hit about 5pm by this point and I wasn't really up for round 2, so packed up and left things roughly like this. Kinda cool to see what a difference a week in the sun does for the colour. 
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Jul 8, 2018 19:22
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Bonus rat pic
Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 8, 2018 |
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Jul 8, 2018 20:04
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What is the exterior going to be over all this when you're done? I'm sure you've mentioned somewhere, I just don't remember.
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Jul 8, 2018 23:43
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tetrapyloctomy posted:What is the exterior going to be over all this when you're done? I'm sure you've mentioned somewhere, I just don't remember. The few more orangey pieces are the finish material, the type over the wide entrance.
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Jul 8, 2018 23:46
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I mostly don't spare the lovely builder a second thought these days, but for some reason it was on my mind this morning that I should look his company up. As far as I can tell it never existed, and the guy was never a director of anything, and so they probably held no insurance either. Greaat.
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Jul 14, 2018 05:31
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What's your plan today? Y'know, looking forward rather than back etc.
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Jul 14, 2018 09:59
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Jaded Burnout posted:I mostly don't spare the lovely builder a second thought these days, but for some reason it was on my mind this morning that I should look his company up. If he misrepresented himself (in a written contract, obviously), is that not grounds to sue? There's an argument that his hourly worth is less than he represented.
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Jul 14, 2018 12:17
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cakesmith handyman posted:What's your plan today? Y'know, looking forward rather than back etc. In the short term sense of "today" my plan was to do more work on the cladding. Given the fact that I'm still in bed should be an indication that hasn't entirely borne out; turns out I had a lot of sleep debt to pay off. But there's still time, sunset isn't until around 9, so I should get some decent work done. In the wider sense of "today" meaning now and onwards, I'm carrying enough debt and other financial commitments that I'm not going to be able to fund any significant projects until mid next year. I will try to fund the last parts of the plastering because that would open me up to painting (doing more of it myself than I planned to) but things like the stairs and gardens etc will have to wait. Same for the last of the rendering, which is annoying because I've got about £400 of render sat in bags in my utility room and I need to use it before it goes off. tetrapyloctomy posted:If he misrepresented himself (in a written contract, obviously), is that not grounds to sue? There's an argument that his hourly worth is less than he represented. It was a fixed price contract so hourlies weren't really involved. I bought the product rather than the person. If the lack of some of this stuff causes problems during sale then I'll entertain suing him. It's actually a benefit from that point of view because if he wasn't actually working through a limited company then all the liability falls on him, not on a company.
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Jul 14, 2018 13:50
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Jaded Burnout posted:It was a fixed price contract so hourlies weren't really involved. I bought the product rather than the person. At the very least, you should give a heads-up to that other person who's wrestling with the guy.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:37
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Yeah I considered telling the other guy but he’s already cut ties, and if he’s looking to sue him his lawyer would be real poo poo if that wasn’t the first thing they checked. He’s not claiming I owe him I suspect because he knows how much I could counterclaim, so I’m just going to put it aside for now.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:32
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Wound up sleeping until about 3pm, had a late lunch, got out around 5pm. First up, redoing the left post. Step 1, dug up a piece with a nice quality stretch long enough, and used last week's attempt to mark it up.  Put a mitre across the top leaving plenty of extra material so I can test fit and trim it back, then put the initial cuts in at the base. 10º and 5º tilt, again.  Test fit against the base, looks good.  Next let's see how much I need to trim the top down. Oh, none, I guess. How do I keep loving this stuff up? Nevermind, it's actually a decent fit.  Trimmed out the material from the cut-out. Started from the left at 10º, then as I got close to the right I switched to 5º. Once trimmed out I took one of my rigging gloves and knocked out the rough stuff. Those gloves have been super useful because I can run them along these finish pieces and knock off all the splinters, so I can handle it barehanded. The safety instructions for the mitre saw say not to use gloves, but I tend to wear a left glove at least because otherwise I've got tiny splinters being fired at them by the blade.    Pretty good fit.  Top still a little tight, trimmed half a mill off. Good fit.  Bottom mitre  Lots of spacers required, but I got it fitted about as flat and 2x plumb as possible.   Now to tackle this bottom piece, reusing last week's attempt at the upright.  Turns out this batten on the right is a tad lower than the other two, meaning I couldn't get it level. Had to trim it back by hand.  Managed to get it appropriately level and mitred the left hand side, but by this point the shadows were long and I was exhausted, so I called it a day.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:38
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It's been a very long time now since it rained properly, by UK standards, anyway. I'm still very much enjoying the weather, though it no doubt contributes to my exhaustion when working out in it. One effect is that the bare patches of earth around the house are quite dry dirt now, and the slightly strange thing is that it feels kinda exotic to me. This being England, particularly the north of England where I grew up, there's almost never bare dirt, it's always covered in grass, and if the grass is missing you get mud or at least damp earth. Dry, dusty soil is something I only ever saw on holiday in Spain etc when I was younger.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:55
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Got a decently early start today. Here's the bottom piece ready to go on. Propped in place  This was when I noticed that I hadn't fully thought through how the bottom piece was going to interact with the other bottom piece round the corner.  More mitres needed, and as discussed I'm not good at doing this in my head, so I pulled out some test pieces. This is where we are right now, not very useful because it only allows a two-way connection.  The third piece has nowhere to go  Roughly marked up the material that needs removing. At this point I'm still not quite sure whether this will work, but that's what test pieces are for.  Sweet!  Now I need to test fit an upright piece for the corner. Trying out my best guess naive approach:   Hey it all works!   Put the same cut into the real piece using the tests as a guide   Kinda hard to drill this from the bottom, had to dig out small pits so I could fit my smallest drill in there  Got it done nice though  Fitting the corner piece was quite awkward, because it's big and heavy, and I couldn't rest it on the ground because the bottom is a fairly delicate point. I found the best piece left of this size. The rest is going to have to be a little less quality, but the most visible bits are the highest quality I have. I *may* need to buy more, I guess we'll see. Here's my high tech assist solution  Got it done, then broke for lunch. You can start to see the framing taking shape now.   
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Jul 15, 2018 14:38
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