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HookShot posted:Yeah, this. we get into trouble if we're seen not checking a bag. I have seen, in my store at least, security detain someone who refused a bag search... at the minimum someone refusing a bag search would be kicked out and told not to return. I raised the legality question with one of my professors my first year in law school... as long as there is a sign at the entrance to the store declaring it to be a condition of entry that customers consent to a bag check, they are legally required to comply...entering the store constitutes acceptance of a contract...if they don't want their bag searched, they can stay out of the store. Most places though, especially small places wouldn't have the resources or will to enforce it. One electronics chain has an airlock system of doors at the entrance with a security guard between them. When you go to leave, they inspect your bags and tick each of your purchases against the entry on the receipt, then stamp the receipt to verify you have been checked At the end of the day, it's about protecting ourselves from being accused of discrimination. Most of the time I give the most causal glance at a bag, but if we are seen to check everyone, apart from the deterrent affect, when we get someone we genuinely suspect, we can't be accused of only checking their bags because they belong to a specific ethnic minority. I've caught a few shoplifters this way, most notably the insane woman who thought she could smuggle a loving watermelon out of the store.
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Jan 6, 2012 00:21
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Management has apparently decided the 'LIVE IN FEAR, PEON' style of management is a good idea. This, coupled with a few other bits of bullshit, have me putting in my two weeks. I'm stressed enough as it is, I don't need to live in fear of forgetting something and getting written up for it. I pray I get a work-study. Or a job at a hotel where this is less likely to happen, one of the two. Anything, anything to get me out of here aside from dropping by as a customer. Anything.
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Jan 6, 2012 03:12
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Ive been reading this thread and Im still on page 90. I worked as a secret shopper for a few places like blockbuster, jack in the box, walmart, and ampm. It was really easy stuff I can tell ya about it. I have never worked retail, aside from front desk at a gym and I didnt even have to sell contracts. I currently live in Japan, people always take their kids in strollers up the escalators here. My friend who worked at Macys or something always has to say something about it. He keeps going on about having to clean up blood off the floor because of stupid parents and the escalator. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 6, 2012 03:54
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Rabite posted:Ive been reading this thread and Im still on page 90. Blood is the single most annoying type of spillage to clean. Urine and vomit are more disgusting, but blood is harder because it tends to dry quickly and become very sticky. It takes a fair amount of effort to remove
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Jan 6, 2012 04:39
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The Lord Bude posted:we get into trouble if we're seen not checking a bag. I have seen, in my store at least, security detain someone who refused a bag search... at the minimum someone refusing a bag search would be kicked out and told not to return. I raised the legality question with one of my professors my first year in law school... as long as there is a sign at the entrance to the store declaring it to be a condition of entry that customers consent to a bag check, they are legally required to comply...entering the store constitutes acceptance of a contract...if they don't want their bag searched, they can stay out of the store. Most places though, especially small places wouldn't have the resources or will to enforce it. If I walked into that store planning to buy something, that system would talk me out of it. I have shoplifted literally once in my entire life, and that was a chapstick. If your boss wants you to harass people, then I'm sorry you work for an rear end in a top hat, but I didn't shoplift and I don't shoplift and I'd much rather not com back than be treated like a shoplifter. e: and that's if it was even legal, which it isn't.
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Jan 6, 2012 04:45
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drat, good thing goons never need to go to a courthouse or secured business, like a manufacturing plant. I see signs everywhere where you, your vehicle, and purse/bags are all subject to search. Same with some privately owned pet stores around here. I was allowed to carry my laptop bag because I knew the owners and sold fish to them all the time, and they trusted me. As for places like Walmart, I find if I spot the greeter and offer the bag right off, they just wave me on. Now, if I had some TVs in a shopping cart, yeah, I would think they'd stop me.
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Jan 6, 2012 05:43
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Arnold of Soissons posted:If I walked into that store planning to buy something, that system would talk me out of it. It's standard practice at any major retailer in australia, at least in theory. we are used to it, most people who know their bag is large enough to qualify for searching - it has to be larger than an A4 sheet of paper - automatically open it up for me to look inside without being asked
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Jan 6, 2012 06:35
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Fil5000 posted:I've only ever seen it in stores like Makro over here - at the exit an employee looks over your reciept and the contents of your trolley to make sure you've not nicked anything. I suspect Makro gets away with it because you have to be a member to shop there and therefore have to agree to their T&Cs. Seriously? Wow. This has never happened to me anywhere, and I'd have drat well refused it too, if it had. I don't go out shopping to spend my hard-earned money to be treated like a shoplifter. Cowslips Warren posted:drat, good thing goons never need to go to a courthouse or secured business, like a manufacturing plant. I see signs everywhere where you, your vehicle, and purse/bags are all subject to search. ...Not really the same as popping out to the local supermarket, is it? I wouldn't be offended if a high-security location asked me to comply with a security check, but certainly would if my local shop stopped me on the way out to make sure I wasn't a thieving scummer.
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Jan 6, 2012 10:01
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Cowslips Warren posted:drat, good thing goons never need to go to a courthouse or secured business, like a manufacturing plant. I see signs everywhere where you, your vehicle, and purse/bags are all subject to search. Yeah, I think you're confusing two different responses; I work for a bank and if I went into one of our cash centres I wouldn't stand at the door bellowing that they couldn't search me as it was a violation of my rights.
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Jan 6, 2012 10:19
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Fil5000 posted:Yeah, I think you're confusing two different responses; I work for a bank and if I went into one of our cash centres I wouldn't stand at the door bellowing that they couldn't search me as it was a violation of my rights. The situation is exactly the same though: the owner/operator of the premises has determined that theft and loss is a big enough issue to enforce searches on all people entering their premises. You've just made the decision that banks/airports/etc. are worthy of extra security but a supermarket isn't. You have a right not to be searched randomly on the street or in your own home but a business owner has the right to protect their property in the way they see fit. Nobody's rights are being violated (as long as there is posted notice of the policy before you enter the store) and as someone posted earlier, by checking everyone they actually avoid violating someone's rights by racially profiling them. I don't appreciate being searched either, but I just don't go back to the store, I don't start crying about MY RITES
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Jan 6, 2012 10:40
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greazeball posted:The situation is exactly the same though: the owner/operator of the premises has determined that theft and loss is a big enough issue to enforce searches on all people entering their premises. You've just made the decision that banks/airports/etc. are worthy of extra security but a supermarket isn't. The difference is whether you let JUST ANYBODY in or not.
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Jan 6, 2012 10:51
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I've honestly very rarely encountered someone who has a problem with it. At the end of the day, those are the terms by which shop owners permit you to enter their premises, and people who don't want to comply can shop online or get a handbag that isn't large enough to be searched. the whole MY RITES!!! argument doesn't really wash in australia, nowhere in australian law are people explicitly given any broad rights beyond those nessesary to ensure the democratic functioning of the government; rights are assumed to exist except in the individual circumstances where the law says they don't; that's why the police here are able to set up on the road side and make each car that passes stop for a breath test, or flag cars down at random. as far as I'm concerned, if you aren't a criminal you should have nothing to hide; most people who pass through my checkout and comply with the check policy get the barest of glances in the direction of their bag... it's the ones who act like they don't want me to check where I start availing myself of my ability to ask you to remove items so I can see to the bottom of the bag, and open any internal compartments. I've searched the bag of our state's head of government when she passed through my checkout, and I'd have no problems searching my parents bags; although that will never happens since it would be a conflict of interest to let a friend or relative through my checkout. back to crazy customer stories, had a great one come in tonight: gentleman walks into the store, wearing army camouflage trousers, but with the bottom of the trousers tucked into his socks and an ancient air force coat. He was wearing a surgical mask over his face, and enormous sunglasses like that guy from CSI:MIAMI wears. around his neck he wore the facemask from a snorkle. completely nuts. when we wouldn't let him split his bill into 30 dollar increments so he could get extra fuel vouchers (when customers spend 30 dollars or more they get a voucher for 4c a litre discount on petrol at our branded petrol stations) he demanded to speak to 'the overlord'. when it was explained to him that we didn't currently have a staff member with that particular job title, and that he could speak to the store manager if he wanted, he pouted and said "Fine, I suppose that will have to do"
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Jan 6, 2012 13:07
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It does really come down to expectations. If enforced searches are legal in the US / Australia then most people presumably just accept that and move on. In places where they're not legal (like here in the UK) then I would expect a lot more resistance. Apart from the exceptions like Makro (which is technically a private members establishment so falls under different regulations) if anyone asks me for a receipt check / bag search my answer is a polite but firm "no thanks". I've only ever been asked a couple of times and it has never escalated when I gave that response and kept walking.
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Jan 6, 2012 13:17
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The Lord Bude posted:as far as I'm concerned, if you aren't a criminal you should have nothing to hide; See, no. I am not submitting to a search just because "I should have nothing to hide". They're working on an assumption that everyone is shoplifting, which isn't supported by the majority of legal systems these stores operate within. If you want to look through my stuff (that I've just this minute given your business money for) then tough, it's my stuff. If you think I'm shoplifting then call a policeman and have me arrested.
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Jan 6, 2012 13:26
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Fil5000 posted:See, no. I am not submitting to a search just because "I should have nothing to hide". They're working on an assumption that everyone is shoplifting, which isn't supported by the majority of legal systems these stores operate within. If you want to look through my stuff (that I've just this minute given your business money for) then tough, it's my stuff. If you think I'm shoplifting then call a policeman and have me arrested. I'm a Brit living in Australia and this is precisely my attitude. I am not a thief, have nothing to hide, but absolutely refuse to have my bag checked between the checkout and the exit. To me, when you've paid your money to the cashier and are on your way out, that is the end of all transactions. This applies even more where the route between the checkout and the exit is clearly defined and presents no opportunities for theft. It's probably to do with the way I shop. I only buy what I came for and want to spend the least amount of time possible purchasing it. gently caress browsing, gently caress Flybuys points, store cards, discounted bullshit at the checkout, and especially gently caress some uniform-wearing retard getting in my way and treating me like a criminal for no good reason. Pick stuff up, pay for it, leave. That's it.
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Jan 6, 2012 13:35
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It may be insulting, demeaning, irritating and a complete waste of time and you can hate it all you want. But it doesn't violate anybody's rights because you are under no obligation to shop at any particular store.
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Jan 6, 2012 13:41
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modeski posted:I'm a Brit living in Australia and this is precisely my attitude. I am not a thief, have nothing to hide, but absolutely refuse to have my bag checked between the checkout and the exit. To me, when you've paid your money to the cashier and are on your way out, that is the end of all transactions. This applies even more where the route between the checkout and the exit is clearly defined and presents no opportunities for theft. This is why I always request the bag check when I start serving someone, that way if we need to toss them out of the store they get to leave with nothing. I love customers like you. It amuses me when you have no choice but to wait for me to ask you about your rewards card, encourage you to get one if you don't have one, and waste 15 mins of your time calling management over when you refuse your bag check. I will also take my time making sure each of your bags is a perfectly packed work of art, and I will open each carton of eggs you buy to make sure none of the eggs are broken. then, at the end of all things, when you are shattered and defeated, I will bid you have a good day, and call you back when you invariably leave half your bags behind in your haste to be gone. Thank you for providing a dash of entertainment in my day. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Jan 6, 2012 |
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Jan 6, 2012 13:57
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The Lord Bude posted:This is why I always request the bag check when I start serving someone, that way if we need to toss them out of the store they get to leave with nothing I'm still new to Australia, but I have yet to encounter this... System. Where do you work, for future reference? I worked retail when I first arrived in aus, but maybe Perth is just more laid back. Though I've never been stopped in any of the major chains either. Grocery stores, department stores, never been frisked.
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Jan 6, 2012 14:05
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Ockhams Crowbar posted:I'm still new to Australia, but I have yet to encounter this... System. Where do you work, for future reference? I'm in Queensland, the bag check code of conduct we follow is only for Queensland but I believe there are similar codes for other states. In addition to the sign at the entrance, there is a sign at each checkout explaining in detail to customers their rights and obligations under the code: We can only check bags larger than an A4 sheet of paper We have the right to ask you to remove objects in the bag that obstruct our view to the bottom , and to open any compartments We cannot under any circumstances touch your bag during the search If you refuse a search you can be asked to leave and not return. Kicking someone out is the standard response in the rare times its needed, we would only get security involved if we had more substantial proof of shoplifting...we are pretty vigilant about following suspicious customers. Under no circumstances can we search a customers person, so if you were to conceal something in your pocket we can do gently caress all. Also, generally we have a policy of 'you haven't actually stolen anything unless you leave the premises with it'. If we find something in the bag the assumption is that you were intending to pay for it but forgot it was there. the extent to which it is enforced varies from shop to shop, and how diligent cashiers are and how much management cares to enforce the rule. many small stores have a sign at the entrance but rarely enforce it, it's mostly supermarkets and large department stores. This is the New South Wales code, which is similar to the one in Queensland: http://hsc.csu.edu.au/retail/compulsory/240/theft/3183/bag_checks.htm While we're on the subject of shoplifters: If you take a drink, or a packet of chips or something and you open it to eat while you are shopping, you are shoplifting. your intention to pay for it when you get to the checkouts is irrelevant. I've caught many people doing this. Until you pay for it, it is still our property. when I need to walk from the front of the store to the back, or vice versa, I will always walk down aisles that carry high theft items like razor blades, on the off chance I can catch someone stealing. Also, gently caress minors who try to buy cigarettes, and parents who try to buy them for their kids. I'm not risking 2 years jail or 200,000 dollars for you. If you look under 25, I'm going to ask for ID. If you don't have ID, gently caress off. If I even think you intend to give the cigarettes you are buying to someone under age, you can forget about buying them. I had three separate incidents of this today. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jan 6, 2012 |
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Jan 6, 2012 14:25
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This might be off topic but I recognize the "razors are heavily shoplifted" from when I was in retail: is there any reason why razors in particular are so frequently stolen?
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Jan 6, 2012 14:30
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PiCroft posted:This might be off topic but I recognize the "razors are heavily shoplifted" from when I was in retail: is there any reason why razors in particular are so frequently stolen? because a pack of 4 razor blades is something ridiculous like 25 dollars, and it is very small, making it easy to steal. you can get a large amount of money reselling it at markets or attempting refund fraud. The highest theft items are razorblades, batteries, and cosmetics for that reason; followed by chocolate bars/softdrink which fall more into the I want a chocolate but have no money/don't want to pay impulse theft category. Edit: also cigarettes and other smoking products are very tempting targets, because the cheapest 20pk of cigarettes you can get in Queensland is about $12.50, but they are very hard to steal because they are kept behind the counter, and subject to very strict laws about how they can be displayed... most retailers as of a few months ago no longer display any cigarettes...they are under the counter or behind a door and you need to ask for what you want. It's so much fun watching customers have a fit every Thursday when the tobacco prices go up, or when the government passes new laws to make it more inconvenient to buy them or smoke them. I can't wait till later this year when all cigarette packets have to be the same colour and won't be allowed to have any brand logos or distinguishing markings on them beyond a line of small text. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jan 6, 2012 |
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Jan 6, 2012 14:36
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The Lord Bude posted:This is why I always request the bag check when I start serving someone, that way if we need to toss them out of the store they get to leave with nothing. Really? You actively take pleasure in loving with people who's only apparent crime is "wanting to do their shopping without grief"? Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
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Jan 6, 2012 14:55
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Fil5000 posted:Really? You actively take pleasure in loving with people who's only apparent crime is "wanting to do their shopping without grief"? Whatever floats your boat, I guess. some of my coworkers call me the checkout nazi. No groceries for you. Next!
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Jan 6, 2012 15:21
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The Lord Bude posted:some of my coworkers call me the checkout nazi. No groceries for you. Next! Nothing to be proud of. No wonder so many people have such a low opinion of retail workers, with people like you going out of your way to make shopping a miserable experience for them.
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Jan 6, 2012 16:10
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I'm hoping he's exaggerating some for comic effect. It doesn't seem out of character for an SA poster anyway.
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Jan 6, 2012 16:21
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Fil5000 posted:See, no. I am not submitting to a search just because "I should have nothing to hide". They're working on an assumption that everyone is shoplifting, which isn't supported by the majority of legal systems these stores operate within. If you want to look through my stuff (that I've just this minute given your business money for) then tough, it's my stuff. If you think I'm shoplifting then call a policeman and have me arrested. I swear practically everyone in retail hates this policy too. I gave no fucks about checking peoples bags and just took the hit to my score when the secret shopper went by. Anyone who checks bags in retail usually has management breathing down their neck to do it. One thing I'd love to know about retail is... are those eco-friendly bags they sell at the front of the store really all that eco-friendly? I would have assumed the environmental costs associated with gathering the materials, dying them bright green, branding them with 'WOOLWORTHS' or 'COLES' and sending them to each store would have had more of an environmental cost than the plastic bags themselves. That and they still use plastic bags (for when customers invariably forget to bring along their green bags). Though I must admit those folding enviro-bags are really handy - I keep one in my handbag at all times now. My guess is that they're not environmentally friendly at all unless the shops phased out most plastic bags and everyone remembered to bring in their green bags. froglet fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jan 6, 2012 |
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Jan 6, 2012 17:45
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froglet posted:
Well, the idea is that while people need more and more bags, these much larger, much sturdier bags only need to be made once and can be used potentially for years. Over time the bags' "carbon footprint" is overshadowed by the energy cost of producing enough bags to haul an equal amount of groceries or whatever. I have no idea how resource-heavy they are to produce though, so I don't know if the average one actually achieves this net gain. I do like the practice of charging customers per plastic bag they have to use. It's only 5 or 10 cents each but considering I could fit all my groceries into one or two of those it's worth it.
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Jan 6, 2012 20:33
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The Lord Bude posted:This is why I always request the bag check when I start serving someone, that way if we need to toss them out of the store they get to leave with nothing. And you're the exact reason I always use self-checkout, usually don't carry a backpack with me, get most of my staples at Aldi (where you pack your own bags) and will complain to management in person and via comment cards when cashiers go deliberately slow and try to upsell me at the checkout. Quite sad what you find entertaining, to be honest. I was never that much of a prick during my teenage retail years. You know, I don't particularly have a problem with showing my bag (when I have one) to the cashier. It's when I've paid for everything and am walking out that I refuse to stop and let someone rifle through my stuff.
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Jan 6, 2012 20:49
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PiCroft posted:This might be off topic but I recognize the "razors are heavily shoplifted" from when I was in retail: is there any reason why razors in particular are so frequently stolen? While I was at Staples, they weren't one of the most shoplifted items. But they were the #1 tool of shoplifters. Why? When you can cut a 4" inch slit into a bluetooth earpiece package and take it out in 5 seconds, you're making money hand over fist.
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Jan 6, 2012 23:27
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A lady asked to speak to the manager and when I showed up she said, "You can't be the manager because you are a girl...and young.."
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Jan 7, 2012 01:29
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Riscas posted:A lady asked to speak to the manager and when I showed up she said, "You can't be the manager because you are a girl...and young.." She sounds like the kind of woman who's objective in life was to 'marry well' and who lives in some kind of '50s era pre-feminist existence where men are always in charge and women always secretaries or nurses.
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Jan 7, 2012 01:34
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Rick_Hunter posted:While I was at Staples, they weren't one of the most shoplifted items. But they were the #1 tool of shoplifters. Why? When you can cut a 4" inch slit into a bluetooth earpiece package and take it out in 5 seconds, you're making money hand over fist. I think they mean shaving razors. They are so drat expensive for such a little pack.
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Jan 7, 2012 02:01
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Cowslips Warren posted:drat, good thing goons never need to go to a courthouse or secured business, like a manufacturing plant. I see signs everywhere where you, your vehicle, and purse/bags are all subject to search. If you have a reason to think I'm stealing (which you probably don't, since I'm not) then that's one thing. If you stand to lose some substantial amounts of money, (and I mean a whole lot more than just an ipod) then that's one thing. But treating every person who sets foot in your store like a criminal as a matter of policy, that's dickish and lovely.
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Jan 7, 2012 02:24
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The Lord Bude posted:While we're on the subject of shoplifters: If you take a drink, or a packet of chips or something and you open it to eat while you are shopping, you are shoplifting. your intention to pay for it when you get to the checkouts is irrelevant. I've caught many people doing this. Until you pay for it, it is still our property. Penny wise, pound foolish. Lots of people (like me) stick to certain grocery stores over others. In the same drive I could hit at least 6 different, essentially equal stores. Stupid poo poo like this is a great way to say "gently caress it, take a few minutes and learn the lay out of another store."
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Jan 7, 2012 02:30
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froglet posted:I swear practically everyone in retail hates this policy too. I gave no fucks about checking peoples bags and just took the hit to my score when the secret shopper went by. Anyone who checks bags in retail usually has management breathing down their neck to do it. You are 100% correct about the so called envirobags. Not only are they horrible for the environment, but with regular plastic bags you can reuse them as bin liners...people who obsessively use envirobags end up wasting more money to buy plastic bin liners. And they never loving wash their enviro bags even when their meat leaks all through them so they end up smelling totally rancid. And as for me making customers miserable, 99% of customers are perfectly lovely people, if a little dim witted. Those customers love me, because I do my job perfectly, leave them gasping for breath from laughing too hard, and am obsequious as all gently caress. Occasionally, I get the other 1%. These people generally hate me, because I don't tolerate their behavior for an instant. The poster before who said he doesn't let 'uniform wearing retards' check his bag is a textbook example of a problem customer. The rules are in plain sight before you come in to the store. If you don't like them, you have every right to go somewhere else. You don't have the right to come into the store and be a self entitled prick who thinks the rules don't apply to you. Those sorts of people I take every pleasure in mindfucking.
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Jan 7, 2012 03:12
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The Lord Bude posted:Also, generally we have a policy of 'you haven't actually stolen anything unless you leave the premises with it'. If we find something in the bag the assumption is that you were intending to pay for it but forgot it was there. So it's not stealing if I am nearly able to walk out of the store with something stashed in my bag so long as you catch me, but if I give my two year old some crackers out of a box I'll be buying when I check out I'm a shoplifter? That makes sense.
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Jan 7, 2012 03:33
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The Lord Bude posted:You are 100% correct about the so called envirobags. I think you're missing the point that yeah, you could just go somewhere else, but the fact that you have to make a decision of whether being treated like a decent human being and law-abiding citizen is more important than saving a few minutes is appalling. How about instead of checking everyone's bag like they're visiting a prison you just walk the floors and look for people who are actually acting suspicious or blatantly stealing? As far as I'm concerned, my purse is another pocket and you have no loving right to see inside it without probable cause. Do you also search people with cargo pockets on their pants, or anyone wearing a floor-length skirt? And like Dirty Sanchez said, you really aren't going to bust someone who is walking out the door with property but you'll drop the loving hammer on someone who decided to have a coke during their hour-long shopping excursion that they have every intention of paying for? Can you really not see that your gleeful adherence to these asinine and counter-intuitive rules makes you a complete shithead? Reasons I No Longer Desire to Work in Retail: The Lord Bude ruining it for the rest of us.
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Jan 7, 2012 04:01
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Maybe you guys should, I dont know, write letters and emails to people who can actually do something about these policies?
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Jan 7, 2012 04:13
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cobalt impurity posted:How about instead of checking everyone's bag like they're visiting a prison you just walk the floors and look for people who are actually acting suspicious or blatantly stealing? I think the what happened was the ferals stealing started crying foul about being 'unfairly targeted' (despite being know to shops and police as serial offenders). This is a problem if the thieves are of any ethnic minority - shops dislike having an image of discriminating. It's probably easier to check everyone's bags than it is to prowl the aisles trying to catch thieves.
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Jan 7, 2012 05:35
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cobalt impurity posted:I think you're missing the point that yeah, you could just go somewhere else, but the fact that you have to make a decision of whether being treated like a decent human being and law-abiding citizen is more important than saving a few minutes is appalling. How about instead of checking everyone's bag like they're visiting a prison you just walk the floors and look for people who are actually acting suspicious or blatantly stealing? As far as I'm concerned, my purse is another pocket and you have no loving right to see inside it without probable cause. Do you also search people with cargo pockets on their pants, or anyone wearing a floor-length skirt? the difference is when we stop you walking out with something, it can be returned to the shelf. When you open that coke, it is no longer fit for sale. Lots of people open that coke, then conveniently leave the empty bottle on a shelf somewhere, so if a member of staff sees you open something, they will escort you to a checkout so you can pay for it. Obviously if you are at the checkout and you hand me an empty wrapper to scan I'm not going to say anything because clearly you are being honest at least. And now I think I've spent enough of everyone's time debating loss prevention methodology. I've got other interesting stories, but they will have to wait since my tea break is just about done.
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Jan 7, 2012 05:51
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