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Darox posted:I've been playing with pakellas a bit and I have come to the conclusion that people saying mummy of pak is easy mode are liars. Pak is something of a slow starter, he doesn't provide a lot of value for you until that first rod gift. Which isn't the end of the world (though it does make DD pak starts a little rough) but he also stops your mana regen which means you can't start as a mummy necromancer, aka one of the only starts that makes mummys kinda bearable. I did a MUMo to get the rod from Pal early, and it was shadows, so that was pretty easy mode until I got stupid and died. It's sort of a crap shoot if you're going to find an early temple or altar, but it's possible to punch things to death until you get there. I think I found a dagger of venom or something early, too.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:26
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Darox posted:I've been playing with pakellas a bit and I have come to the conclusion that people saying mummy of pak is easy mode are liars. Pak is something of a slow starter, he doesn't provide a lot of value for you until that first rod gift. Which isn't the end of the world (though it does make DD pak starts a little rough) but he also stops your mana regen which means you can't start as a mummy necromancer, aka one of the only starts that makes mummys kinda bearable. Recharging a wand every few fights is completely insane early on, the value even with a crappy wand is immense and gives you more bang for your buck than similar low-piety spammable abilities. But yes he is explicitly a "no casters allowed" god early on, it's in his drat description!
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Apr 12, 2016 14:27
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I Love You! posted:Recharging a wand every few fights is completely insane early on, the value even with a crappy wand is immense and gives you more bang for your buck than similar low-piety spammable abilities. Killing a dozen monsters to get a single charge on an acid wand is not a good exchange. The return on wand charging is really not impressive early on. It burns piety too just to rub it in. A paralysis wand is probably your best bet, better hope you are lucky enough to find one. In the long run it becomes good, in the short term while making your way to/through lair it is not even remotely close to good 1-2 star god abilities. e: Pak isn't bad, but if you have a bad combo (like mummy anything) you will feel the pain while trying to reach the point where you suck less. Those combos really like picking up the gods that give big early game power quickly, like Makhleb. Incidentally mummy necromancer leaning on necromancy till Makhleb then leaning on demon summons till you can actually swing a weapon properly is a pretty good mummy game plan. Darox fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 14:36
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Darox posted:Killing a dozen monsters to get a single charge on an acid wand is not a good exchange. Do you really mean this? Getting a lil' scroll of recharging for killing a dozen monsters is loving incredible. Use it on a wand of confusion or enslavement or disintigration if you're unhappy with the Acid results, but there's no way this statement is accurate. You end up gaining far more charges than you use unless you're not bothering to blow your MP whenever you have the chance. The piety cost is very minor compared to how fast you gain it and how strong the ability is. Getting to lair with Pak is completely trivial, probably the easiest of the gods outside of Trog tabstorming
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Apr 12, 2016 14:48
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Darox posted:Killing a dozen monsters to get a single charge on an acid wand is not a good exchange. The return on wand charging is really not impressive early on. It burns piety too just to rub it in. A paralysis wand is probably your best bet, better hope you are lucky enough to find one. You shouldn't need to lean hard on wands to kill most things pre-lair, though. A mummy swinging any kind of small branded weapon even without skill is fine for rats and snakes, and you can save your wands for ogres/orc warriors. If you go Monk you'll absolutely have a rod by lair and you can lean on that.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:49
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Couldn't you pretty easily get desired behavior with something like tournament teams? Like, put #score CDO,cao,cbro at the top of your rc on each of those servers and it combines those records on the scorepage iff it's on every such rc. Have the default behavior be to include everything for a version but put a header on your scorepage about how to fix broken streaks. (I realize that the score compilation is not version- dependent but just to give people time to adjust). You'd have to keep track of when includes occur to prevent account scumming for streaks (win as cao/jerk then play on different servers until you win again, then only include the winning account; or de-including an account after starting a game you lose or think you will lose), and I'm sure score processing will be computationally more expensive, but no added infrastructure is needed as far as I can see.
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Apr 12, 2016 14:51
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Can Of Worms posted:So after reading about the changes that the Circus Animal branch does to DCSS I decided to fire up a game because holy poo poo look at this laundry list of ridiculousness: 
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Apr 12, 2016 15:09
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Also with two rings of magical power and a staff of power I can get 102 MP.
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I Love You! posted:Do you really mean this? Getting a lil' scroll of recharging for killing a dozen monsters is loving incredible. I'd rather have heroism or lesser destruction or decks, though. I would say they are more useful than a slow wand recharge that also relies on you actually finding the wands, because Pak is only going to gift you one of them early on. When you don't care about it, everything is fine. My ghoul run blew through the early game without pause and rolled through the rest with half a dozen rods. When you do have trouble in the early game, relying on wand charging is really painful.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:12
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Darox posted:I'd rather have heroism or lesser destruction or decks, though. I would say they are more useful than a slow wand recharge that also relies on you actually finding the wands, because Pak is only going to gift you one of them early on. Being able to keep all your wands topped off basically for free is a way stronger ability than heroism or lesser destruction, though. Just not on D:5 if all you found is one wand of fire.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:18
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kaschei posted:You'd have to keep track of when includes occur to prevent account scumming for streaks (win as cao/jerk then play on different servers until you win again, then only include the winning account; or de-including an account after starting a game you lose or think you will lose), and I'm sure score processing will be computationally more expensive, but no added infrastructure is needed as far as I can see. I'm not sure that would be an issue since you can kind of do that already: once you've won, you can play until you're facing imminent death, then go play a new character on another server and hope it goes better. You've basically got 8 or 9 options; twice that if you switch between .17 and trunk. At least, it seems like it would work. I'm not HAMy enough to try it.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:42
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kaschei posted:Couldn't you pretty easily get desired behavior with something like tournament teams? Like, put #score CDO,cao,cbro at the top of your rc on each of those servers and it combines those records on the scorepage iff it's on every such rc. Have the default behavior be to include everything for a version but put a header on your scorepage about how to fix broken streaks. (I realize that the score compilation is not version- dependent but just to give people time to adjust). Having your score/game history segmented by version seems really lovely and is probably not going to be an acceptable solution for the majority of players, I would expect. Edit: and from a player usability standpoint, needing to keep .rc files perfectly in sync across multiple servers at all times so my score page works right seems like a huge pain in the rear end. fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 15:48
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I am so glad of all the Mummy of Pak talk that took place over the last week because:code:Now I never have to play a mummy again! YAY! 
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Apr 12, 2016 15:57
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World Famous W posted:I am so glad of all the Mummy of Pak talk that took place over the last week because: Except now come tournament season you have a new reasonable combo you need to complete~
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Apr 12, 2016 16:13
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Static Equilibrium posted:Having your score/game history segmented by version seems really lovely and is probably not going to be an acceptable solution for the majority of players, I would expect. And no more onerous than registering and authenticating at a central site somewhere would be.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:17
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kaschei posted:Couldn't you pretty easily get desired behavior with something like tournament teams? Like, put #score CDO,cao,cbro at the top of your rc on each of those servers and it combines those records on the scorepage iff it's on every such rc. Have the default behavior be to include everything for a version but put a header on your scorepage about how to fix broken streaks. (I realize that the score compilation is not version- dependent but just to give people time to adjust). That is a lot of player effort to maintain valid scores, and it is still possible to brute force a loss on a different server if you have someone truly dedicated to ruining a streak (like the top streaks) by changing the rcfile each loss with a different server combo until you trigger a loss on the player's page. On a different note, I just realized that any central auth design (that does not require logging in to local servers with a central account) will likely kill robin accounts if griefers rush to link them. They (or, at least big ones like comborobin) would have to have central accounts created and linked up before such a system goes live, which would require some handjamming. Edit: I just realized I might be making GBS threads up the thread with all the authentication talk. If I'm bothering anyone, I'll shut up about it until I hit major milestones. Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 16:18
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Floodkiller posted:That is a lot of player effort to maintain valid scores, and it is still possible to brute force a loss on a different server if you have someone truly dedicated to ruining a streak (like the top streaks) by changing the rcfile each loss with a different server combo until you trigger a loss on the player's page.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:23
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Would having some sort of whitelist on known roundrobin account names be a better solution so they would be centralized across servers (ie same name on other servers would aggregate scores properly) but could not be linked to any other accounts no matter how much a user messes with the settings?
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Apr 12, 2016 16:25
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Would having a whiteregexp on *robin accounts work?
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Apr 12, 2016 16:28
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kaschei posted:It's exactly one rcfile edit per server that you play on and it could be a drop-in replacement that has exactly the current behavior until you set the option yourself because someone broke your streak. I don''t understand the attack you envisage/describe at all, can you re-read what I wrote and then re-write what you wrote if you still think it applies? I'm wrong, misread it slightly, sorry. It would prevent the attacks, but you are right that it is computationally taxing in the sense that it will be like constantly running tournament style rcfile-scraping scripts to check for updates. I'm not sure how much of a load that puts on the servers, but it could be a good interim solution if it isn't too bad. It does still require arbitration if your name is taken on another server though. Sage Grimm posted:Would having some sort of whitelist on known roundrobin account names be a better solution so they would be centralized across servers (ie same name on other servers would aggregate scores properly) but could not be linked to any other accounts no matter how much a user messes with the settings? A whitelist might be a good idea, but it would need to be maintained. It also still opens up the potential for griefing robin accounts, but they are already pretty griefable if you care to do it so I don't think that's as much of a concern. kaschei posted:Would having a whiteregexp on *robin accounts work? What if a non-robin player's nickname ends in robin (hypothetically, because that's a pretty rough nickname coming from someone named Floodkiller)? You would also need to include a warning for new registrants about it.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:52
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Floodkiller posted:It does still require arbitration if your name is taken on another server though. I'm not sure that's true. I play on two accounts: cbro/static and czro/static, so if I do nothing, I have two sets of scores, and those exist as separate entities in terms of leaderboards, score pages, streaks etc. If I link the accounts, then both sets are combined into a single score (using an arbitrary order of precedence), so people see czro/static only on scoreboards and the page for cbro/static is an alias to/duplicate of czro/static. You could even be more sophisticated in your syntax if you wanted: #linkaccounts cbro/static czro/static cao/staticwastaken consolidates everything under cbro/static, for instance. Edit: kaschei: my idiot phone ate my post but I misunderstood what you were saying and now I think it's a reasonable idea. fomo sacer fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 17:10
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Floodkiller posted:A whitelist might be a good idea, but it would need to be maintained. It also still opens up the potential for griefing robin accounts, but they are already pretty griefable if you care to do it so I don't think that's as much of a concern. So would it being stored in a handrolled account on the score server, if we're trying to prevent association. I prefer the whitelist approach because robin accounts aren't "owned" by a single person but could benefit from aggregation across servers. Robin accounts having public user/pass advertised in the learndb is out of scope and a separate issue. 
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Apr 12, 2016 17:11
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Sage Grimm posted:So would it being stored in a handrolled account on the score server, if we're trying to prevent association. I prefer the whitelist approach because robin accounts aren't "owned" by a single person but could benefit from aggregation across servers. Yeah, I think whitelist is probably fine (and probably better) for robin accounts over handrolled central ones. It just means another table/field somewhere (I'll have to figure out what would keep it simple) and another admin management page. I'll probably also take out Location from the Servers table and keep scoring and auth databases separate (in a sense); I think name should be enough to derive from logfiles for the purposes of authenticating. E:I'll have to look into how Akrasiac currently figures out which servers to pull from; if it is manual, to figure out whether it is important to be able to modify that through an application. If it isn't, then the Servers table may not be needed on second thought. Double Edit: Rcfile scraping could also work for double proof authenticating, thinking about it. Have the auth server create a key to put at the top of the user's rcfile (sort of like a temporary authenticator key), then run a script after the user confirms to scrape the file's top and validate the user's access to the account. If successful, link the accounts. This would reduce the load on both servers without requiring a new field local server-side, and all the code work needing to be done is just adjusting the tournament scripts. It does put the onus on the player/user to not have an unsecure password, I guess, but that's the user's problem. Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 17:25
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thought for a moment that the monkey emoji in the new howler monkey tile commit was the tile itself -- now i'm imagining emoji-crawl
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Apr 12, 2016 22:31
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Roctavian posted:thought for a moment that the monkey emoji in the new howler monkey tile commit was the tile itself -- now i'm imagining emoji-crawl yet another fine april fool's project... e: code:
PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 22:34
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I've seen that error before working on multi-language projects and was going to make fun of you for not having real wchar support but then I looked into the compiler/portability poo poo for it and oh my god character set crap is such a mare's nest of poo poo I don't think it's even worth fixing.
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Apr 13, 2016 08:41
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Dear Devs, Please stop allowing one of my four shops in Orcish Mines be a loving mimic.
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Apr 13, 2016 13:21
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World Famous W posted:Dear Devs, Feature request: orcish mines replaced by a mimic branch.
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Apr 13, 2016 13:49
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Arivia posted:Feature request: orcish mines replaced by a mimic branch. FR: Mimic God. Grants acquirement as a god power at 6*, but vanishes into a puff of smoke at 5* (not explained in the description).
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Apr 13, 2016 13:56
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Floodkiller posted:FR: Mimic God. Grants acquirement as a god power at 6*, but vanishes into a puff of smoke at 5* (not explained in the description). FR: Xom altars have a small chance to be Mimics. Also, all Mimics have a small chance of spawning a Xom altar when they disappear.
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Apr 13, 2016 14:06
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It's probably already on that goodideas page on the wiki, but FR: playable mimic race.
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Apr 13, 2016 14:06
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FR: Occasionally the player him/herself is a mimic. When you move next to an enemy, you go poof and your game ends.
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Apr 13, 2016 15:06
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FR: Xom action that spawns a trove/bazaar entrance, with a 90% chance to be a mimic.
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Apr 13, 2016 16:14
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FR: Xom action that spawns mimics on the level you are on. This should be a fairly common action.
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Apr 13, 2016 16:39
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FR: Xom mimics a different god permanently, as a rare chance when you convert to Xom. Includes powers and piety requirements for the mimiced deity.
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Apr 13, 2016 16:49
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Hate to interrupt the FR party, but I noticed something on my current dump.code:code:I also checked some of the most current winning games and they ain't got this issue. EDIT: Guess I should say they are Trunk on cBro World Famous W fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 16:58
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Is this related to the older fad of +72 clubs?
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Apr 13, 2016 17:09
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I think it's more a secret BDSM mode.
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Apr 13, 2016 17:14
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Sad to hear about CSZO. Time to move back to CBRO, I suppose. At least I'm poo poo at this game and I was just coming off of a death from a mummy in an ossuary after forgetting I had a wand of flame. Again. I'm going to train my muscle memory to hit "i" as soon as I see a red name.
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Apr 13, 2016 17:48
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I'm trying to get a mummy wizard off the ground and I don't remember it being so loving difficult. Mephitic Cloud is just coming into mostly castable territory which will take the burden off, but the amount of "miscast/miscast/miscast RUN AWAY + rest rest rest" is insane. All I want is a Mummy blinged out with Gozag. Why is this too much to ask??
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Apr 13, 2016 18:16
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FulsomFrank posted:I'm trying to get a mummy wizard off the ground and I don't remember it being so loving difficult. Mephitic Cloud is just coming into mostly castable territory which will take the burden off, but the amount of "miscast/miscast/miscast RUN AWAY + rest rest rest" is insane. All I want is a Mummy blinged out with Gozag. Why is this too much to ask?? On the bright side you're the perfect race to pillardance for hundreds of turns waiting for mana to regenerate. (don't do that)
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Apr 13, 2016 18:25
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