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I was starting to wonder whether Rich was ok.
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Mar 30, 2022 15:55
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:25 |
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Not gonna lie it's aggravating having so many months of just recapping everything that's happened in the last couple of years
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Mar 30, 2022 18:08
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These pages are going to be a really annoying interruption to the story's flow when the book comes out.
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Mar 30, 2022 18:14
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The X-man cometh posted:These pages are going to be a really annoying interruption to the story's flow when the book comes out. Well, at the current rate of one page every two weeks or so, that book should be completed around… 
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Mar 30, 2022 18:23
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Nah. This strip works great at seeing what everybody knows, how it is informing their positions, and getting everyone on the same page. If this convinces her, it will be because of it not being a shiny polished argument, but multiple people giving different perspectives. Meaning it is much less likely that this is a rehearsed lie. There's also some bits like making it clearer that Serini genuinely does care for her monster family, and admitting that Xykon really is that bad.
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Mar 30, 2022 18:28
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Roy is giving Belkar credit and respect.
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Mar 30, 2022 19:55
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To be fair pretty much everything but the airship mutiny has been a non-stop high for like more than a book. We had to come down off Durkon singlehandedly subsuming a vampire, learning the cosmic truth, putting Redcloak's entire rear end on display and outgrowing his own God at some point. I'm genuinely curious about Serini's response. She's not Redcloak, but she's in a similar position in that she's Team Xykon due to a bitter loss, a lot of sunk costs and a faint hope for a better lot in life for the monstrous races, and she's been offered an out. Redcloak doubled down in the worst possible way, she actually may not. The story has been in desperate need of an advocate for the monstrous races since Redcloak very clearly abandoned that notion long ago; perhaps that is Serini's actual role here? I'm kind of expecting her to tell the Order to gently caress off and continue to be obstinate, but I'll happily be wrong about that.
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Mar 30, 2022 20:30
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I'm calling it now: Sunny becomes the one to save the day and usher in an era of world peace for monster kind. The reason it's only a happy ending for Elan is because he's the only one pure hearted enough to not interpret an ending where problems are solved but he gets no credit or recognition as "bittersweet".
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Mar 30, 2022 21:02
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ooh, Sunny, Oona, Greyview and MitD dream team, yeah forget Serini and let's do that
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Mar 30, 2022 21:09
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i wonder if the order will get to create a new world, somehow. Seems like it's a potential outcome here - could the world in the rift be one that even the gods couldn't destroy?
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Mar 30, 2022 21:29
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:
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Mar 30, 2022 21:30
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TheAceOfLungs posted:The reason it's only a happy ending for Elan is because he's the only one pure hearted enough to not interpret an ending where problems are solved but he gets no credit or recognition as "bittersweet". Durkon would be fine with it, I think.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:40
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sebmojo posted:i wonder if the order will get to create a new world, somehow. Seems like it's a potential outcome here - could the world in the rift be one that even the gods couldn't destroy? In sci-fi and fantasy, that's basically the traditional solution once you create a morally complicated scenario with two populations that hate each other out of a long history of grudges (some of them legitimate), but then decide that you also want them both to have a happy ending. You have the heroes find a new continent/planet/dimension where the population that's currently on the losing size can move, and they each get to live on their own for a few generations until the grudge is consigned to history. It might be a little too straightforward for Rich's tastes, IMO.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:58
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Gumby posted:Serini has a billion points in Use Magic Device; can she sub in for the Divine half of the ritual? Well, that's one other remaining sticking point; the ritual they need specifically requires the Dark One's quiddity, and Redcloak is the only cleric of his that comes anywhere close to being able to contribute enough. They need Redcloak specifically for that, unless they find a way to enlist the Dark One directly, or another level 17 goblin cleric shows up at the eleventh hour. Or, of course, they could enlist another deity with unique quiddity, none of which currently exist, but I still think the Fiends' ultimate goal is to try to recreate the conditions that led to the Dark One's apotheosis in order to create more evil gods who stand outside the three pantheons. That'd tie that subplot into the main plot, and would be a double dip if the mortal they wind up making a god ended up being one Belkar Bitterleaf.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:58
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Well, that's one other remaining sticking point; the ritual they need specifically requires the Dark One's quiddity, and Redcloak is the only cleric of his that comes anywhere close to being able to contribute enough. They need Redcloak specifically for that, unless they find a way to enlist the Dark One directly, or another level 17 goblin cleric shows up at the eleventh hour. Wait, do you mean the ritual that TDO is planning to use to move the rifts? That has nothing to do with his quiddity. IIRC, the Dark One doesn't even know about his special quiddity.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:25
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Well, that's one other remaining sticking point; the ritual they need specifically requires the Dark One's quiddity, and Redcloak is the only cleric of his that comes anywhere close to being able to contribute enough. They need Redcloak specifically for that, unless they find a way to enlist the Dark One directly, or another level 17 goblin cleric shows up at the eleventh hour. I feel like Redcloak being resolved by "Actually we found some other dude so any moral complexity is carefully avoided" is not great.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:32
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Gynovore posted:Wait, do you mean the ritual that TDO is planning to use to move the rifts? That has nothing to do with his quiddity. IIRC, the Dark One doesn't even know about his special quiddity. No, the ritual to perma-seal the rifts that Thor wants Durkon to pull off.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:33
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NihilCredo posted:No, the ritual to perma-seal the rifts that Thor wants Durkon to pull off. Right, it won't be a 4-quiddity spell without The Dark One's aid (or bit of quiddity from Redcloak). Those are the only two entities that can currently aid.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:39
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NihilCredo posted:No, the ritual to perma-seal the rifts that Thor wants Durkon to pull off. Yeah it specifically requires a 9th level spell worth of the Dark One's quiddity. Red Cloak is the ONLY one in a position to offer that other than the Dark One himself.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:44
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Khizan posted:Durkon would be fine with it, I think. Hmm, good point. Maybe the cost of saving the world is that Durkon has to join AA?
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Mar 31, 2022 02:55
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Okay, so here's my thought. The Snarl is a being of godlike power, but it's not a god. It was created of of godly anger and frustration; it's sole purpose is rage. As seen in this strip, the Snarl's first act is to kill several gods; it's second act is to 'devour' the souls on the newly created planet. Then, throughout the thousands (millions? more?) of worlds that the gods created, it 'ate' countless billions more. But... the Snarl is not a living being. What if it lacks the ability to chew, swallow and digest souls? What if the souls that it 'devoured' are all still hanging around? So, my theory is: all the souls eaten by the Snarl sort of clustered together, and by sort of pooling their energies, they manipulated the threads of reality the same way the gods did, and created a world for themselves. They lived on that world for a mind-boggling amount of time, as the gods created countless new worlds to hold the Snarl in, failing each time but learning from their mistakes. The people lived their lives like normal people. And over that insane amount of time, their 'normal-people-ness' slowly seeped into the Snarl, and the hatred slowly drained away. Or maybe the Snarl has kinda an outer shell of hatred, but also a nurturing side. So: the Order teams up with Serini, defeats Xykon, and makes a deal where Redcloak gives them his quiddity in exchange for equal rights for goblins. But then, we find that sealing the Snarl forever will doom the souls on that world, so we need find an alternate solution. As for evidence supporting this; unless I missed something, the Snarl has never actually killed someone in the present. Whenever the Snarl killed a person on panel it was during a flashback.
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Mar 31, 2022 04:39
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It did kill Tarquin's psychic friend, though.
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Mar 31, 2022 04:48
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TheAceOfLungs posted:It did kill Tarquin's psychic friend, though. I don't think there's any evidence she died?
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Mar 31, 2022 04:53
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It still got stabbed by it though. That's not friendly behavior.
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Mar 31, 2022 04:58
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What happens if Durkon puts on the crimson mantle?
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Mar 31, 2022 05:49
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Noah posted:What happens if Durkon puts on the crimson mantle?
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Mar 31, 2022 07:12
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Noah posted:What happens if Durkon puts on the crimson mantle? He's going to look awesome.
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Mar 31, 2022 07:52
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NihilCredo posted:It might be a little too straightforward for Rich's tastes, IMO. Only Elan and Haley get there and they become the Adam and Eve.
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Mar 31, 2022 07:59
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Nenonen posted:Only Elan and Haley get there and they become the Adam and Eve. Stop reminding me of how BSG ended
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Mar 31, 2022 10:06
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ImpAtom posted:I feel like Redcloak being resolved by "Actually we found some other dude so any moral complexity is carefully avoided" is not great. Yeah, that's fair. I'm just past wanting any kind of Redcloak redemption arc and if he's not gonna contribute to the resoluton, someone else is gonna have to.
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Mar 31, 2022 10:40
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The possibility of another god subbing in might spur TDO to bypass Redcloak however. If someone's willing to burn down everything rather than go for incremental improvement just because it's not a perfect solution AND satisfied the "Eye for an eye" craving, it's absolutely on them alone if they lose out on the opportunity entirely. It could even lead to a point where Redcloak/TDO's plan does fail utterly and all their leverage is wasted, but the Order pushes for improvements anyway because the whole ordeal has taught them that it is the right thing to do. I think that's perhaps a better message than equality being something you have to offer something in return for.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:43
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Kyte posted:It still got stabbed by it though. That's not friendly behavior. Tried to stab, anyway. 
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Mar 31, 2022 11:58
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girl dick energy posted:Nothing, the wearer has to be a worshipper of The Dark One. What if someone with *Does some quick math* 25 ranks in use magic device uses it
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Mar 31, 2022 14:55
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ikanreed posted:What if someone with Ah, they don't need Redcloak at all. They can just head to Tinkertown and get this whole thing buttoned up with the help of some random high level artificer NPC. That should be a sufficiently satisfying conclusion to the narrative, yes?
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Mar 31, 2022 15:24
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girl dick energy posted:Nothing, the wearer has to be a worshipper of The Dark One. Priest, specifically, not just a worshipper. Redcloak even highlights this in Start of Darkness, since he was only an acolyte until he got promoted by virtue of everyone above him dying. So even if Durkon converted, he'd have to be acknowledged by some kind of religious authority or TDO himself before the cloak worked on him.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:26
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Slashrat posted:It could even lead to a point where Redcloak/TDO's plan does fail utterly and all their leverage is wasted, but the Order pushes for improvements anyway because the whole ordeal has taught them that it is the right thing to do. I think that's perhaps a better message than equality being something you have to offer something in return for. Okay yeah that’s the best suggestion for a resolution I’ve heard, I’m totally on board with that.
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Mar 31, 2022 17:22
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S.D. posted:Tried to stab, anyway. Back in the crayon flashbacks where we saw the Snarl stabbing both people and gods, it always used claws for any destructive act. Whether it was tearing the gods to shreds, ripping the first world apart, stabbing Soon's wife through the portal, or Kraagor fighting to force it back into the final rift, it was always depicted with claws at the end of a scribbly arm. So while we don't know exactly what's going on here, I'm pretty sure it's not attempted stabbing. My personal theory is that the gods are not completely correct about the Snarl's nature or goals. While Soon said the Snarl was born of divine frustration and conflict, and I'm sure the gods really thought that themselves, it was also born of the divine desire to create. The conflicts that created it were all along the lines of "hey, I want to create a world the way I want to, and anyone who disagrees can gently caress off", after all. It would make sense for the Snarl to be basically the concentrated essence of that. And just as the gods believe the Snarl is apparently incapable of comprehending the gods' work to build prisons around it again and again, it's entirely possible they can't completely comprehend what it's doing either.
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Mar 31, 2022 21:26
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Vizuyos posted:Back in the crayon flashbacks where we saw the Snarl stabbing both people and gods, it always used claws for any destructive act. Whether it was tearing the gods to shreds, ripping the first world apart, stabbing Soon's wife through the portal, or Kraagor fighting to force it back into the final rift, it was always depicted with claws at the end of a scribbly arm. So while we don't know exactly what's going on here, I'm pretty sure it's not attempted stabbing. Yes, the issue has been raised but carefully not explored, which would make complete sense if it is what rich is holding back for the resolution.
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Mar 31, 2022 21:57
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Someone is literally being stabbed in that picture
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Mar 31, 2022 22:08
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That's not stabbing, it's an internal hug
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Mar 31, 2022 22:19
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