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I feel like a game needs to be built around bosses like Sekiro or Megaman or they just shouldn’t have bosses. And bosses in FPS games should just be illegal. I can’t think of a single one that wasn’t either ‘circle strafe as you hold the fire button’ or something that just totally changes the flow of the game in a bad way.
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May 5, 2020 02:54
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moosecow333 posted:I feel like a game needs to be built around bosses like Sekiro or Megaman or they just shouldn’t have bosses. And bosses in FPS games should just be illegal. I can’t think of a single one that wasn’t either ‘circle strafe as you hold the fire button’ or something that just totally changes the flow of the game in a bad way. Max Payne did it well. The final bosses of 1 and 2 were solved by taking out environmental items to get someone that was otherwise safe. They had a whopping one enemy in both games who could take more than a few rounds, and he was hopped up on Military Mega PCP.
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May 5, 2020 03:00
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Max Payne 3 even continues this trend despite being made by Rockstar instead. All of the boss fights in Max Payne 3 are caused by the enemy having the high ground and Max is forced to get creative to get an angle on them. They all die in one headshot same as any normal enemy once you do get them in the open.
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May 5, 2020 03:10
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CJacobs posted:Max Payne 3 even continues this trend despite being made by Rockstar instead. All of the boss fights in Max Payne 3 are caused by the enemy having the high ground and Max is forced to get creative to get an angle on them. The final boss in MP3 was a bit more of a pain in the rear end to figure out. That game was definitely still great and did a lot of stuff I like, but some stuff just wasn’t quuuuite on the same level.
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May 5, 2020 03:11
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The only thing I don't like about video game bosses is when they can kill you in one hit from full health. If you're appropriately geared for wherever you are, it should literally and I mean literally never be allowed to happen unless it's a fight you're intended to lose. Because then all your gear and prep is just meaningless. Expecting perfection out of the player is a fool's errand and ties back to the Ninja Gaiden thing I said the other day. Dark Souls 2 was guilty of this when it first released. The boss of the Forest of Fallen Giants (the intended first major area) could kill you in one hit from full HP with basically any of its attacks unless you had 15+ Vigor which was really unlikely only a few hours into the game. It got so many complaints that they changed the fight entirely to make his AOE stomp attacks smaller and made him do much less damage overall. edit: imo all RPGs and ARPGs should have the 'magic pixel'. If you take more than x% of your health in damage in one attack, you should be left with 1 HP. Every one of them. If the player makes a mistake that drastic, they really deserve the chance to realize it and there's no better wake up call than 80% of your health bar disappearing immediately. I mean come on even Borderlands has the magic pixel thing. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 03:26 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 03:21
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This is why Sekiro is such a good middle ground I think. If you do wander into an area with enemies that do huge damage or even a boss you're not ready for yet, good news! You can die twice! And when you die the first time, the enemy immediately forgets about you and wanders off, so you may not even re-attract their attention when you revive. edit: oops
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May 5, 2020 03:29
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Shadows Post Twice
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May 5, 2020 03:33
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BotW has a this specific mechanic, in fact. I know this because it gets removed if you play Master Mode and that is VERY noticeable.
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May 5, 2020 04:54
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Captain Hygiene posted:
I like things like this because my biggest pet peeve in games is coming across two doors and getting locked out of exploration because I blindly picked the Plot door and now I'm stuck. What if there was something useful back there? Or a cool easter egg or bonus fight or something? All points of no return should be clearly and explicitly labeled, imo
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May 5, 2020 05:50
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Crowetron posted:I like things like this because my biggest pet peeve in games is coming across two doors and getting locked out of exploration because I blindly picked the Plot door and now I'm stuck. What if there was something useful back there? Or a cool easter egg or bonus fight or something? There was one area in Kingmaker that had a chest I couldn't unlock, and after I cleared it out I was like "Well, gently caress. I guess I'll come back after I level up and get better unlock picking skills." Except I also had a timed quest counting down that I had to turn in. So I go to turn in that quest, and then the game wipes that area and builds a new house on top of it and that chest is gone. I'll never know what's in it. Admittedly, it was probably like, two agate and a silver spoon or some useless poo poo like that, but still! Every time I visit my castle I can't stop thinking about that chest I'll never unlock because it's just loving gone now. Also because I turned in that quest, it advanced the game into Chapter 2 without telling me because the game like, makes zero distinction between main quests and not main quests and whether or not you've missed side quests or anything. And so while I was exploring the map this zombie just starts yelling at me, and I was really confused because I'd completely missed his entire quest and the game just kind of assumed I did it instead. So now I'm paranoid because I have no clue which quests in my really badly written quest log tell will throw me into another new world state and which ones are just side quests. Oh and just to make that worse; the journal is really bad. I had a quest for one of my party members that asked me to get something from the Narlmarches, except it didn't tell me what part of the narlmarches. There's not only two whole zones for the narlmarches - north and south - but like, twenty different nodes to visit between them. Whoever described this game as being like playing a campaign with a DM obsessed with playing the book exactly as written was right.
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May 5, 2020 06:02
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CJacobs posted:The only thing I don't like about video game bosses is when they can kill you in one hit from full health. If you're appropriately geared for wherever you are, it should literally and I mean literally never be allowed to happen unless it's a fight you're intended to lose. Because then all your gear and prep is just meaningless. Expecting perfection out of the player is a fool's errand and ties back to the Ninja Gaiden thing I said the other day. Max Payne 3’s real final boss was the airport shootout, which was basically the best shooting arena in the history of shooters.
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May 5, 2020 06:18
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I always think of Gears of War and RAAM when i think of final bosses. RAAM and his loving bat swarm of death can eat an entire decades bag of poo poo.
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May 5, 2020 06:25
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CJacobs posted:edit: imo all RPGs and ARPGs should have the 'magic pixel'. If you take more than x% of your health in damage in one attack, you should be left with 1 HP. Every one of them. If the player makes a mistake that drastic, they really deserve the chance to realize it and there's no better wake up call than 80% of your health bar disappearing immediately. I mean come on even Borderlands has the magic pixel thing. A lot of the PS3/360 bog standard third person cover shooters do this, which becomes incredibly comical in 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand when 50 Cent can just take endless rockets to the face as long as he occasionally pops out of the way and crouches for a couple seconds.
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May 5, 2020 06:32
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marshmallow creep posted:I always think of Gears of War and RAAM when i think of final bosses. RAAM and his loving bat swarm of death can eat an entire decades bag of poo poo. World to the West on PS4/PC has a great final boss that really gets the idea of everyone working together to kill him despite having their own agendas - each form the guy renders himself immune to the character you are playing as, and the next person tags in to continue the assault.
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May 5, 2020 07:22
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BioEnchanted posted:World to the West on PS4/PC has a great final boss that really gets the idea of everyone working together to kill him despite having their own agendas - each form the guy renders himself immune to the character you are playing as, and the next person tags in to continue the assault. This reminds me of how Final Fantasy XV has a gauntlet of bosses in its final chapters where your party members take the lead to help out. Except that part of FFXV does belong in this thread, because the ability to switch to your other party members was an entirely optional upgrade, and their respective DLCs were sidestories that were best played after the main story, with one of them actually completely spoiling the ending. So realistically you're suddenly thrown into an endgame bossfight and forced to use a playstyle you have no experience with midway through. Every part involving playing as your friends in FFXV was patched in later, by the way. None of this was actually part of the game until all of their DLCs were released. Actually, related: what are games that were made straight-up worse through content added later? I know that Assassin's Creed 2's GOTY edition (the only one you can get now) has the really lovely Bonfire of the Vanities DLC now baked into the main game story, so right before the final level you have to do a bunch of half-assed, unreasonably harsh missions.
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May 5, 2020 07:37
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Cleretic posted:Actually, related: what are games that were made straight-up worse through content added later? I know that Assassin's Creed 2's GOTY edition (the only one you can get now) has the really lovely Bonfire of the Vanities DLC now baked into the main game story, so right before the final level you have to do a bunch of half-assed, unreasonably harsh missions.
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May 5, 2020 07:44
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I think I may have come to MGS 3 too late. I really enjoyed The Phantom Pain so downloaded the HD Collection, keen to have a go at the prequel. But I just can’t deal with the controls: hold ‘X’ to raise gun, let go to shoot; aiming is tricky unless you’re in first person; despite analogue sticks being a thing for nearly quarter of a century, it’s the d-pad to sneak; no, you may not rebind the controls... I think MGS V has spoiled me with more intuitive movement, aiming, etc.
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May 5, 2020 08:43
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Cleretic posted:Actually, related: what are games that were made straight-up worse through content added later? I know that Assassin's Creed 2's GOTY edition (the only one you can get now) has the really lovely Bonfire of the Vanities DLC now baked into the main game story, so right before the final level you have to do a bunch of half-assed, unreasonably harsh missions. The Crimson Court DLC for Darkest Dungeon can and will make the game an absolute loving pain to play through.
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May 5, 2020 08:49
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Twitch posted:A lot of the PS3/360 bog standard third person cover shooters do this, which becomes incredibly comical in 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand when 50 Cent can just take endless rockets to the face as long as he occasionally pops out of the way and crouches for a couple seconds. Regenerating health is good now? I thought it was bad. Or was it always good?
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May 5, 2020 09:01
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Cleretic posted:Actually, related: what are games that were made straight-up worse through content added later? I know that Assassin's Creed 2's GOTY edition (the only one you can get now) has the really lovely Bonfire of the Vanities DLC now baked into the main game story, so right before the final level you have to do a bunch of half-assed, unreasonably harsh missions. The GOTY edition of Shadow of Mordor gives you a bunch of OP runes as DLC that make the first half of the game super easy. This is actively harmful to the overall gameplay since getting killed by orcs is kind of important to get the most out of the Nemesis system.
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May 5, 2020 09:02
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Cleretic posted:Actually, related: what are games that were made straight-up worse through content added later? I know that Assassin's Creed 2's GOTY edition (the only one you can get now) has the really lovely Bonfire of the Vanities DLC now baked into the main game story, so right before the final level you have to do a bunch of half-assed, unreasonably harsh missions. I can't stand to play Fallout NV again because instead of working my way up from nothing, I'm walking out of Doc's house with 6 DLCs with of freebies.
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May 5, 2020 09:31
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I vaguely recall hearing one of the Dead Space games also had that 'dump the overpowered DLC gear onto you right off the bat' problem, come to think of it. Which is especially ruinous for a horror game.ilmucche posted:Regenerating health is good now? I thought it was bad. Or was it always good? I think it was always accepted as 'good', or at least a perfectly valid approach, ever since Halo came up with an early version of it. It's just that it's inherently probably the least realistic approach to health refills in a shooter, so when all the realistic military shooters started using that as a standard it became a subject of ridicule.
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May 5, 2020 09:49
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Vandar posted:The Crimson Court DLC for Darkest Dungeon can and will make the game an absolute loving pain to play through. Seconding this; the game actually even lies about the difficulty of the first level to get you to activate it (and die trying), removes all other events besides "you should do this crimson court mission", all its missions take loving forever and end up with a boss fight that puts the original end boss to shame. It also floods the other areas with its rear end in a top hat enemies and introduces yet another attrition mechanic, but this time something that you have no meaningful way to fight against. You get the magic AIDS and there is nothing to do but weep. The overall design reeks of people who think that playing games with a notebook and excel sheet for optimal builds is fun. Its like New Game+ DLC, but it starts right after the tutorial segment, and the NG+ content keeps leaking into the first playthrough from all the seams on a game that is already notoriously difficult and unforgiving. Generally I would say that something was hosed up, if it is generally advised to to play a game without DLC actived, unless you specifically want to do the DLC content.
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May 5, 2020 09:49
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Evilreaver posted:I can't stand to play Fallout NV again because instead of working my way up from nothing, I'm walking out of Doc's house with 6 DLCs with of freebies. Similarly Dead Space 2 on PC had all DLC weapons available by default and so you had to exercise self control in order to not make the game significantly easier than intended. E: beaten by literally one minute. 😄
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May 5, 2020 09:50
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ilmucche posted:Regenerating health is good now? I thought it was bad. Or was it always good?
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May 5, 2020 10:26
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Max Payne did it well. The final bosses of 1 and 2 were solved by taking out environmental items to get someone that was otherwise safe. They had a whopping one enemy in both games who could take more than a few rounds, and he was hopped up on Military Mega PCP. The original Deus Ex was a bit like this. There were cyborgs and guys in power armour etc that were moderately bullet-resistant, but nobody man-sized is surviving being shot with an anti-tank rocket launcher.
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May 5, 2020 10:38
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ilmucche posted:Regenerating health is good now? I thought it was bad. Or was it always good? Oh no, those Unreal Engine borderline asset-flip shooters are all absolute garbage, some of them are just also incredibly funny to watch someone else play on Youtube.
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May 5, 2020 10:53
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Regenerating health as a design principle is no better or worse than having to find health packs out in the game world, or any other system for that matter. It just all comes down to the implementation.
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May 5, 2020 12:24
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Eclipse12 posted:My biggest gripe about Aminal Crossing: To clarify, this was aimed at the villagers in AC, not the people discussing the game here Nuebot posted:I was terraforming my village. Realized I'd made a mistake and had to undo my work, then redo it all from the ground up, over the course of several hours because I wanted it to look good. It still looks like poo poo, but at least it looks the way I wanted it to I guess. But to get back on track; the whole time one of my villagers was sitting on a cliff watching me do all of this while eating a hot dog. Lol
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May 5, 2020 13:18
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Evilreaver posted:I can't stand to play Fallout NV again because instead of working my way up from nothing, I'm walking out of Doc's house with 6 DLCs with of freebies. The main DLCs don't start you with extra kit - just the Courier's Stash bonus packs. You should be able to uninstall that one pack and then play with the other 5 actual missions/DLC with no issue. The other available DLC items will drop into levelled lists like normal.
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May 5, 2020 14:28
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Breetai posted:Similarly Dead Space 2 on PC had all DLC weapons available by default and so you had to exercise self control in order to not make the game significantly easier than intended. Was going to say this. I think there was a way to destroy the weapons or put them back into the locker or something (slowly, one by one), but the DLC suits couldn't be removed so hope you didn't want to have a sense of progression to the game.
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May 5, 2020 14:36
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exquisite tea posted:Regenerating health as a design principle is no better or worse than having to find health packs out in the game world, or any other system for that matter. It just all comes down to the implementation. Basically yeah. Regenning health lets developers assume and plan that all players will have at least X health and helps avoid no-win scenarios where you straight up don't have enough health but can't go back. CoD style quick regen more or less works for it's style of low health quick deaths, get back in the action hyper quick whether you died or not kind of gameplay. However I think the best health regens interact with other game mechanics or encourage playstyles that aren't just "duck behind cover for a moment" though. In the OG Halo you had health, which didn't regen and needed a healthpack, and shields, which did. The shield recharged slooooooowly, so if you wanted to heal it took you out of the fight for a long time, or you could sacrifice some health to keep tempo. Also health and shields interacted with weaponry differently- shields took more damage from plasma, bullets did more damage to health, and you needed to deplete a shield first before you could headshot something (besides with the sniper). Borderlands built on this, keeping the two-tiered health/shield system, but there's a bunch of items and character builds that change how you interact with them. Like the nova-style shields have low capacity but explode when depleted pair well with Krieg, who gets buffs when taking health damage. Or health drain/vampire type systems where damaging/killing enemies or performing certain skills gets you health, like the vanguard charge in mass effect or the finishers in Doom or Bloodborne let you recover an amount of health if you attacked after being hit, which encourages an aggressive playstyle. Or Krieg, again. Put something like that on top of a slow passive regen or health item kind of system so you get that trade off. You can wait around for health to recharge, but maybe it's slow or only goes so high. You can use an item but what if you need that later?!? You can use a spell or attack but if you're too aggressive you could end up in a worse spot. Etc. etc. Mazerunner has a new favorite as of 15:26 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 15:22
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Crowetron posted:I like things like this because my biggest pet peeve in games is coming across two doors and getting locked out of exploration because I blindly picked the Plot door and now I'm stuck. What if there was something useful back there? Or a cool easter egg or bonus fight or something? Yeah I get that. I guess it wasn't clear, this was just an elevator to another floor in an area you'll be in for a while. It's just weird that they'd put in impersonal dialogue, normally RE would do something like make the elevator button be missing and give it to you after you find the required hidden room & cutscene.
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May 5, 2020 15:51
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Does any game do "no regenerating health and no health pickups, but it refills after each checkpoint/cleared room"? Max Payne 3 comes to mind, but I'm not sure
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May 5, 2020 17:20
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Ruffian Price posted:Does any game do "no regenerating health and no health pickups, but it refills after each checkpoint/cleared room"? Max Payne 3 comes to mind, but I'm not sure It's somewhat common for RPGs to have you recover health to full after each fight, it's can be pretty interesting because it makes each fight interesting in itself instead of relying on loss of resources to make it challenging. Of course some fail and you repeatedly fight copies of the same encounter you've already beaten, which is just tedious without any inter encounter changes.
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May 5, 2020 17:53
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Ruffian Price posted:Does any game do "no regenerating health and no health pickups, but it refills after each checkpoint/cleared room"? Max Payne 3 comes to mind, but I'm not sure The Queen's Wish by Spiderweb is basically like this, although it's a CRPG, not a shooter.
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May 5, 2020 17:55
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Captain Hygiene posted:Yeah I get that. I guess it wasn't clear, this was just an elevator to another floor in an area you'll be in for a while. It's just weird that they'd put in impersonal dialogue, normally RE would do something like make the elevator button be missing and give it to you after you find the required hidden room & cutscene. Isn't that the part where you play as Mia, though? She's a trained agent and is literally tracking the girl at the time, the number on your watch is the distance to her, and it certainly doesn't seem like she's on another floor at that part. I haven't played that far in a while (I just started a new playthrough recently but I dread getting back to the ship, ugh) but it really doesn't seem like a situation where your character would be wasting any time exploring, and they're certainly trained and equipped enough to know that.
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May 5, 2020 18:26
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Eesh, in Hollow Knight I've come across Mantis Village. I'm hoping I can get back up to the main Fungus area, because this is really hard.
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May 5, 2020 18:40
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Ruffian Price posted:Does any game do "no regenerating health and no health pickups, but it refills after each checkpoint/cleared room"? Max Payne 3 comes to mind, but I'm not sure Max Payne 3 keeps the painkiller health pickups from the first two games, though. The only change it made was adding the last stand mechanic with them. E:it also has limited regen like the first two, you can regen the last 1/8th or so of your health. Ugly In The Morning has a new favorite as of 18:50 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 18:45
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BTW an actual problem with Hollow Knight - the Mushrooms that you bounce on are unclear how they work. I had to look it up to figure out how to use that mechanic.
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May 5, 2020 18:46
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