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Noghri_ViR posted:keep in mind that it takes about three years to get a decent yield from a new hop bine But if it is hilly land that is fallow now because it's too hard to work for other crops, maybe the investment would be worth it? Who knows. I'm no farmer.
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Jun 29, 2012 16:37
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I think it would mostly depend on the size of the operation. If it is a family deal where hops are to be harvested mostly by hand (not that much of a stretch), it doesn't matter what the terrain is like as long as the trellis is built correctly and everything gets full sun. Kentucky is another great example. Massive empty farms where the farmer is just collecting $25k/yr in subsidies by not growing anything (seriously - it's public information and we've looked into it). Hops are a serious cash crop pound for pound, and we'd be willing to even pay a buck or two per pound over market price just so we don't have to deal with expensive palletized orders from the Pacific NW. BSG has an Atlanta warehouse that we use, but they don't even have half of the Yakima warehouse's selection. East coast brewers get screwed on so many things 
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Jun 29, 2012 17:12
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Hm, maybe I should become a farmer. Too bad water is such a bitch here in SoCal. But still, we have excellent citrus, strawberries, onions, and other crops. I have a couple people coming over for dinner on Saturday that might assist with such a thing. Hmmmmmmmm... I do have some friends in Oregon. Perhaps I should go up to visit a hop farm this summer. Jo3sh fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jun 29, 2012 |
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Jun 29, 2012 17:29
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I guess it was good timing that I bought that Cascade hop plant. By the time I'm brewing more often it should be yielding a decent crop. Are there any good books about historical brewing techniques? Like how they managed to make beer before fancy engineered yeast from the LHBS, hydrometers and refractometers, propane burners and starsan.
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Jun 29, 2012 17:35
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Cpt.Wacky posted:Are there any good books about historical brewing techniques? Like how they managed to make beer before fancy engineered yeast from the LHBS, hydrometers and refractometers, propane burners and starsan. I'm puzzled the most by how they got the yeast thing to work out for them.
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Jun 29, 2012 19:01
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Les Oeufs posted:I'm puzzled the most by how they got the yeast thing to work out for them. I read that they literally kept a wooden stir stick as a family heirloom because they didn't know what yeast was, they just had this magic stick that they stirred the wort with and it magically fermented
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Jun 29, 2012 19:05
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It's not exactly technical but I enjoyed the books, Pete Brown wrote about beer. He goes into some depth about it in 'A man walks into a pub.' It's very much from the English perspective mind you. He talks all about the use of 'godisgoode'. It's basically like spontaneous fermentation.
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Jun 29, 2012 19:08
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Cpt.Wacky posted:I guess it was good timing that I bought that Cascade hop plant. By the time I'm brewing more often it should be yielding a decent crop. BrewingTV did a very nice episode on capturing and inoculating wort with wild yeast that could provide you with some insight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3sijnoW5HU
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Jun 29, 2012 19:09
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I thought part of the problem with the hop shortages was the cyclical way farms get into it during the last shortage, and end up out of business by the next time the hail comes around and there's another shortage.
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Jun 29, 2012 20:09
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mewse posted:I read that they literally kept a wooden stir stick as a family heirloom because they didn't know what yeast was, they just had this magic stick that they stirred the wort with and it magically fermented I've heard this too, I want to say it was a viking thing?
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Jun 29, 2012 20:10
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Les Oeufs posted:I'm puzzled the most by how they got the yeast thing to work out for them. A number of ways. Frequently they would brew a batch and then rack the fermenting tank immediately into the next vessel and put the wort in straight on top of whatever was left, essentially reusing the yeast cake. Other people came up with the solution of taking clumps of krausen off the top of the fermenting wort and dumping it into the fresh wort. Both of these have the effect of breeding selectively for the quickest acting yeast, which it turns out winds up breeding against the most acid producing/souring yeasts and bacteria. Once upon a time, before coke was used for malting, all beers had some degree of smoke in the flavor. Light colored beers only started occurring even more recently than that, with the beer from Pilzn being commonly sighted as the first example. But only a few hundred years ago, all beer was dark, smokey, and somewhat tart/acidic/sour. Also probably what we would now consider to be oxidized.
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Jun 29, 2012 20:30
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I'm having carbonation problems with my kegged beer. Last Sunday, I kegged the beer, put it at 10 psi, cold-crashed it, and then tried to do some force carbonation the next day by rolling the cold keg on my lap for about 20ish minutes as per a method I read online. I put it back in my kegerator and let it sit until Thursday night, checking periodically that the pressure gauge was still reading 10 psi. Tapped the keg on Thursday night, and the first two glasses were properly carbonated -- then I started bottling from the keg, and it quickly became apparent in the middle of the first bomber that the beer was not really fully carbonated. Am I just not giving it enough time? The force carbonation seems to do something as I can hear the CO2 bubbling into the keg while I'm doing it, but maybe I'm fooling myself.
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Jun 29, 2012 21:09
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Zakath posted:I'm having carbonation problems with my kegged beer. Last Sunday, I kegged the beer, put it at 10 psi, cold-crashed it, and then tried to do some force carbonation the next day by rolling the cold keg on my lap for about 20ish minutes as per a method I read online. I put it back in my kegerator and let it sit until Thursday night, checking periodically that the pressure gauge was still reading 10 psi. Tapped the keg on Thursday night, and the first two glasses were properly carbonated -- then I started bottling from the keg, and it quickly became apparent in the middle of the first bomber that the beer was not really fully carbonated. More PSI and more time both. 10psi is a low setting for almost any style, and on top of that when you are bottling from a keg you want the beer to be a little over carbonated, because it will inevitably lose some co2 in the process. For carbing a keg up quick, you want really high gas levels, and several shaking sessions. For carbing a keg up the easy way, you want to give it a minimum of 2 weeks and ideally 3.
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Jun 29, 2012 22:18
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10 psi isn't particularly low if your temp is in the 30's. I keep my keg freezer at 35-37 and my standard pressure is 10-12 psi. On the rare occasion that I want to carbonate fast, I usually crank it all the way up to ~35 psi and roll the keg back and forth on the floor slowly.
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Jun 29, 2012 22:22
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Arnold of Soissons posted:A number of ways. Frequently they would brew a batch and then rack the fermenting tank immediately into the next vessel and put the wort in straight on top of whatever was left, essentially reusing the yeast cake. Other people came up with the solution of taking clumps of krausen off the top of the fermenting wort and dumping it into the fresh wort. Both of these have the effect of breeding selectively for the quickest acting yeast, which it turns out winds up breeding against the most acid producing/souring yeasts and bacteria.
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Jun 29, 2012 22:25
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WaterIsPoison posted:BrewingTV did a very nice episode on capturing and inoculating wort with wild yeast that could provide you with some insight. That was really interesting (although him sanitizing the coolship by burning it and then subsequently having to use a sponge to wipe off all the soot was supremely stupid). Was there any update on how that turned out?
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Jun 29, 2012 22:48
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Hypnolobster posted:10 psi isn't particularly low if your temp is in the 30's. I keep my keg freezer at 35-37 and my standard pressure is 10-12 psi. I'm keeping my kegerator at 38-39 right now, so I suppose I should up the psi a little. On another topic, has anyone done a keller beer? After watching the northern brewer video about double decoctions (which they use to make one), I am all fired up about making one myself.
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Jun 29, 2012 23:06
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Zakath posted:Is this while the keg is chilled to serving temps, or before? While the keg is at your serving temperature.
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Jun 29, 2012 23:26
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zedprime posted:I thought part of the problem with the hop shortages was the cyclical way farms get into it during the last shortage, and end up out of business by the next time the hail comes around and there's another shortage. The problem is mostly due to the small farms joining up with a company like HopUnion. The shortages are pretty much manufactured to try and get us to contract. I don't really get it. With over 2000 craft breweries in the US, they'll sell everything they grow. It's kind of like how Amarillo and Citra are patented to purposefully keep them in short supply to demand a premium. The Aussies don't do this, but just grow drat good hops all around instead and still end up cheaper. We don't use any patented hops for this reason. Dumbass breweries can pay $17 per pound for them if they want too, but you can make a beer just as good out of Nugget and Cascade, for example, and only pay $4 per pound. The difference is that when the market gets tight, we're not the ones getting hustled. I've seen some VERY stupid hop trades where one brewery trades both their nuts for one box of a patented variety because they use it for all of their flagship beers.
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Jun 30, 2012 00:06
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Mud Shark posted:I don't really get it. What's not to get? They are basically entering a futures market whereby they get access to financing at a discount and off load some risk as well. In the long run this forces growers to accept a discount in the market place as a penalty for off loading risk. That discount and the premium for selling in an contracted market will stabilize and balance over time. Farmers aren't necessarily good businessmen. And access to capital is pretty tempting. Plus, who wants to sell individual blocks of product when you can sell the whole crop, even at a discount? I mean, they're farmers, not salesmen. I get why this sucks from your perspective, but I get why farmers would want to do this. Also, thanks for your participation in this thread. I've very much enjoyed your insights and information. It's been neat having a pro around for a different perspective.
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Jun 30, 2012 00:24
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zedprime posted:I remember reading smoke was generally avoided by choice of less pungent woods that were well dried and a good airing out of the malt afterwards. Practically BBQing malt to get rauchmalt was a 19th century gimmick done in Bamberg to get themselves on the beer map by using that beer hipster trick of saying "hey you know what, this is actually how they did it so long ago." I have never heard this before, but I wouldn't dispute it. Either way, any wood fire would impart more smoke flavor than a woodless fire, I would think.
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Jun 30, 2012 01:00
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Sorry to interrupt smokechat, but my version of Saq's 'new world quad' is now a little over a month old, and this warm and flat fermenter sample tastes really drat good. Very happy with how it came out - 1.084 OG dropped all the way to 1.010! I'll probably bottle it Monday. I hope to have them fully carbed for the home brewer night at a bar not super far from me.
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Jun 30, 2012 01:19
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Arnold of Soissons posted:I have never heard this before, but I wouldn't dispute it. It'd actually be a cool experiment for someone nuts enough to do it to malt some unmalted barley and try to dry it with wood without getting much smoke in the end product.
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Jun 30, 2012 01:34
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If anyone is interested in a used 5 gallon whiskey barrel Adventures In Homebrewing has some from the Bastones distillery in stock right now. They're $90 + shipping (shipping was $20 for me), which is the cheapest I've found. I bought one for our homebrew club recently and it arrived clean and leak free. It had been dumped within the month and smelled strongly of whiskey. Now I just have to figure out what I want to brew for it. I'm leaning towards either a barleywine or an imperial brown ale.
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Jun 30, 2012 04:55
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A whisky barrel aged stout for the winter months booya.
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Jun 30, 2012 11:24
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drewhead posted:What's not to get? They are basically entering a futures market whereby they get access to financing at a discount and off load some risk as well. In the long run this forces growers to accept a discount in the market place as a penalty for off loading risk. That discount and the premium for selling in an contracted market will stabilize and balance over time. Farmers aren't necessarily good businessmen. And access to capital is pretty tempting. Plus, who wants to sell individual blocks of product when you can sell the whole crop, even at a discount? I mean, they're farmers, not salesmen. The part that makes no sense to me is that contracts aren't paid until delivery, and the contracts are fairly easy to blow off. So basically you're just saying "I promise to buy some hops next year" even though you could just never take delivery and they're still stuck with not knowing where their crop goes. In these contracts, the price isn't set either. Basically you just pay market price at the time of delivery, so it's still all variable. Then you have the problem of a large brewery coming in and saying "we're now using a ton of (insert variety) for a new beer", and the other brewers get screwed on their contracts anyway. This happened to us this year for the AUS harvest. Would unethical be the right word here? Or just bullshit? As an example to the right way to do things, look at Puterbaugh Farms (Hops Direct). All they did was set up a website and the hops sell themselves every year. No salesmanship required. They make more money, and both breweries and homebrewers are happier because they are getting better prices plus the comfort of knowing where your hops came from to reduce year to year variation to a certain point. Even if it were the family farmers requiring contracts - I'd be cool with that since it's a "buy local" sort of thing, but these are the major suppliers manipulating the industry. That's exactly why I'm begging people to start local/regional hop farms. I'd buy everything from a small guy if I could. And thanks for that - I'm glad to participate in these kinds of threads since there are a lot of misconceptions about what breweries actually do. When you take the misinformation out of the equation there are a lot more parallels between what we do and what homebrewers do, and hopefully it'll help someone make better beer. Maybe I'll start an "Ask me about owning a brewery" thread. Look for it soon in A/T, but we have a festival today in this lovely 108 degree heat so it'll probably be a day or two.
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Jun 30, 2012 15:32
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Mud Shark posted:Maybe I'll start an "Ask me about owning a brewery" thread. Look for it soon in A/T, but we have a festival today in this lovely 108 degree heat so it'll probably be a day or two. Kosher Man started a thread back in the day about being a pro brewer and it didn't last that long. That said since you actually own a brewery you probably have a good amount of fun stories, that usually keeps things moving in those kinds of threads. We've got a decent amount of dudes that work at breweries here, they mostly just hang out in the beer thread though. I work at Terrapin, Cyber Slimer works at Cigar City, Kosher Man works somewhere in Denmark (I think), and Ubik works at Goose Island.
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Jun 30, 2012 15:57
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Mud Shark posted:As an example to the right way to do things, look at Puterbaugh Farms (Hops Direct). All they did was set up a website and the hops sell themselves every year. If this wild idea of mine to open a hop farm ever goes anywhere (and it's a big if, with lots of unknowns and such. At the moment, I am tending toward, "It's a great idea, but I am a lazy guy and it will likely never get off the ground"), my thought would be to sell primarily to homebrewers and local, small breweries. I can think of two or three places nearby that have <10BBL brewhouses and would probably be at least passingly interested in a beer brewed with local hops.
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Jun 30, 2012 15:57
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Jo3sh posted:If this wild idea of mine to open a hop farm ever goes anywhere (and it's a big if, with lots of unknowns and such. At the moment, I am tending toward, "It's a great idea, but I am a lazy guy and it will likely never get off the ground"), my thought would be to sell primarily to homebrewers and local, small breweries. I can think of two or three places nearby that have <10BBL brewhouses and would probably be at least passingly interested in a beer brewed with local hops. These guys are probably what you should be aiming to emulate. From what I have seen/heard of them they are pretty successful edit: for a small scale farm. http://www.highhops.net/index.htm bengy81 fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 30, 2012 |
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Jun 30, 2012 16:32
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Mud Shark posted:The part that makes no sense to me is that contracts aren't paid until delivery, and the contracts are fairly easy to blow off. I really have no knowledge of the specific working of these contracts so I'm really just guessing. However, just because the contract itself doesn't pay out earlier doesn't mean it has no value earlier. That contract does have value, and could be used collaterally to gain access to capital not otherwise available or at some discount. For instance you are a bank. Who are you going to lend money to, the guy who has 300 acres of hops and come harvest time is going to hope for the best? Or they guy who has 300 acres and a signed contract for a buyer? Clearly one is better than the other in terms of risk from the perspective of the lender. quote:As an example to the right way to do things, look at Puterbaugh Farms (Hops Direct). I love Puterbaugh and freshops; order several #s from each in the fall when the harvest becomes available. But I think you are simply underestimating the overhead of retail commerce. I don't dispute that they may be making more money selling the way that they do. However not every farmer wants to do that. I would assert that different farmers value differently the extra work of running their own retail store. Given that it becomes a simple cost benefit analysis to decide which way one goes. I suppose I approach the issue from a different perspective. I generally believe people chose what is in their perceived best interest (even when making really dumb choices). Therefore I presume that there *must* be some force in the market that makes contacts more attractive than selling things that would make Mud Shark's life easier. What specifically those are I really don't know so I've been arguing in vague economic terms. And thus endeth my derail. 
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Jun 30, 2012 18:06
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For those of you looking to get into kegging or expand your stable, homebrewfinds tells me that Adventures in Homebrewing has a 4-pack of kegs for $130. The lids do not have a manual pressure release, but that's live-withoutable. http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2012/06/4-ball-lock-kegs-3250-each.html
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Jun 30, 2012 18:50
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Jo3sh posted:For those of you looking to get into kegging or expand your stable, homebrewfinds tells me that Adventures in Homebrewing has a 4-pack of kegs for $130. The lids do not have a manual pressure release, but that's live-withoutable. Holy poo poo. I wasn't thinking I would get into kegging for a ways to come, but this is hard to pass up, especially since they are my local store and I wouldn't have to pay for shipping. Add to the fact the brand new Costco in town that opened yesterday has this kegerater: http://www.kegerator.com/Danby-5.2-cu-ft-Kegerator-DKC146SLDB/DKC146SLDB,default,pd.html?mtcpromotion=cj for $100 cheaper than I can find it online and....welp. Edit: Although I realize a converted chest freezer would probably be easier to work with and more future-proofed. Sirotan fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jun 30, 2012 |
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Jun 30, 2012 19:00
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Sirotan posted:Costco has this kegerater You could make that into a homebrew kegerator, but it would take some reworking - replacement of fittngs at least and soon you will be wanting to put more faucets on it, which probably means a new tower, blah, blah, blah. But it's not a terrible place to start. The Craigslist chest freezer or fridge has a lot to offer you though.
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Jun 30, 2012 19:30
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Jo3sh posted:You could make that into a homebrew kegerator, but it would take some reworking - replacement of fittngs at least and soon you will be wanting to put more faucets on it, which probably means a new tower, blah, blah, blah. Yeah I kinda realized it after I had posted the link. It would be cheaper overall too I'd guess, especially since I just searched Craigslist and found a 7cu.ft. used freezer for $100. Ultimately I'm just wanting this stuff to have it. (Being on sale too makes me want to BUY BUY BUY!!) It really wouldn't be practical for me where I am currently. I can't even brew outside and after I use up the one extract kit I have left I'm not sure that I'll be able to do more than 3gal batches. And then, where the heck am I going to put a 7cu.ft chest freezer??
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Jun 30, 2012 19:37
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Couches are overrated.
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Jun 30, 2012 21:33
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I just racked into a keg with 2 cups of starsan solution. ie, I forgot to dump before filling. I can't believe I just did that. On the other hand, I can't believe I've never done that before.
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Jun 30, 2012 23:24
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Couldnt help but chime back in with some newbish enthusiasm! Its been 6 days since I put my first all-extract self-added-hops no-dextrose batch in the primary. Took a look at it today and it looks like the bulk of the fermentation has completed. Couldnt help myself to draw a small sample to give it a little taste. My god. Its beer! I mean the stuff I made with the cooper's kit was beer, but it included a lot of non-beer tastes. This stuff just tastes like good old-fashioned "crack a bottle on the deck and enjoy the summer" beer! The stuff I taste when I drink beer! I'm very thrilled right now. This was my primary goal of this new hobby. "Make something that tastes like regular beer." I'm going to be so GD careful on bottling day. There's no way I'm gonna let this skunk before I get to pour it into my face. Its incredibly young so I wonder what the flavours are going to do in the next few weeks, but I like where its going. I'm never using a recipe with dextrose again.
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Jul 1, 2012 00:55
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Jo3sh posted:Hm, maybe I should become a farmer. Too bad water is such a bitch here in SoCal. But still, we have excellent citrus, strawberries, onions, and other crops. I have a couple people coming over for dinner on Saturday that might assist with such a thing.
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Jul 1, 2012 03:02
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Ran into a small hiccup preparing for my first BIAB tomorrow. Planning on doing a batch a 3 gallon batch with a 7lb grain bill, that was recommended to me a few pages back. Have everything on hand to do it, but I am pretty sure my kettle can't handle the grains and all the water I am going to need. 4.5 - 4.8 gallons. I really don't want to go buy a bigger kettle right now, but I do have a 5 gallon cooler that I was planning on converting to a mash tun at some point. Would it be possible for me to use my cooler as a HLT for the purpose of this. Just have a few gallons of water on hand at mash temp and add it as necessary?
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Jul 1, 2012 03:47
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bengy81 posted:Ran into a small hiccup preparing for my first BIAB tomorrow. Planning on doing a batch a 3 gallon batch with a 7lb grain bill, that was recommended to me a few pages back. Have everything on hand to do it, but I am pretty sure my kettle can't handle the grains and all the water I am going to need. 4.5 - 4.8 gallons. I really don't want to go buy a bigger kettle right now, but I do have a 5 gallon cooler that I was planning on converting to a mash tun at some point. Would it be possible for me to use my cooler as a HLT for the purpose of this. Just have a few gallons of water on hand at mash temp and add it as necessary? Given that you're concerned about your amount of mash water, I'm assuming your pot's 5 gallons? Your grain bill isn't large enough to where, if you only used 4 gallons to mash, the water would be overly saturated, thereby affecting your efficiency. Heat your full mash water amount, and (assuming you have something to measure with) remove 0.5-1.0 gallons. Put that in the cooler and close it up. THEN mash in, quick stir, and cover up for however long you want. The grain absorption will be enough to let you add the cooler water back in for the boil without worrying about a boilover. And unless you have some fermcap handy, get a squirt bottle of cold water ready to spray on your boil just in case.
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