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priznat posted:Yep they gave me the option of getting an offer from a Canadian office or pushing my start date back to when I can relocate to the US. That won’t happen until at least next year with both the COVID testing required to cross and the fact that I have wacky mixed dose vaccine. I have to be able to go back and forth on a weekly basis at least. For what it's worth this was 100% your managers fuckup because he didn't realize you can't hire a US employee who is living in Canada like that (there are some very specific exceptions that you probably don't qualify for). When comparing the offer, keep in mind things like insurance and taxes will be different, so incorporate those differences when comparing salary. I had a guy who went the other way and thought our US offer was ridiculously high but it ended up being a lot less after health insurance and such.
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Oct 5, 2021 20:16
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Eric the Mauve posted:Yeah but as you say, you'll soon enough be leaving the company in any case, so getting sent packing with a fat severance when your role is made redundant and/or when New VP wants to replace you with a flunky is far from a bad outcome for you. I've only been here since late July, I don't think I'll be getting any severance. aunt jenkins posted:This definitely happens a lot, especially in PM where there’s smaller teams and just less people in the org in general compared to other functions (I’m in engineering). What I don't get is why offer the promotion in the first place? If you're going to bring in a new guy, then do it. You can ask someone to be the stand-in for a bit to bridge that gap, but now they've made it so that I can't possibly stay. And leaving after a few months doesn't look good. It's just wild to me that he would promote me and then immediately start working to replace me. Why? You could have left me at my other position and it would have been fine. In the meantime, I'm staffing out the team; why let me do that, if you want the new guy to bring in his own people? It all just sucks. I'm starting to look, but this is a very short tenure and I'm not happy about it
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Oct 5, 2021 20:41
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Why do you think they'd replace you? They brought you in to do 2 peoples jobs when they canned your boss and now they are getting the 2nd person in. It sucks that they are doing that vs giving you a better shake but it seems like you came out of this ahead in general by scooping up the Director title. There aren't a ton of opportunities to make that jump and leaving now will probably bump you back down.
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Oct 5, 2021 21:16
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I had a bad week last week after my supervisor lectured me on how to handle a project, again, and I realized I’m the only person on the team who gets these lengthy explanations on things despite having more experience than at least one of them. I did a short think on it and identified what makes me different from my colleagues: I’m AFAB (closeted non-binary femme but they don’t know that)! No points for guessing the gist of the spoiler on this one. That plus not receiving a proper review of my role and salary since I changed responsibilities 1.5 years ago is enough to make me want to bail ASAP. I’m sick of it. I’m not a prodigy, but I refuse to work as a junior when I should be an associate at worst and a senior based on my collective experience. It’s a bummer to give up a WFH role, but I think I’m worth more than this. Probably? I’ve started dropping job applications on anything I can, but it’s tough going. I’m getting a master’s that should help me transition my career no problem next year, but for now, I live between “graphic designer” and “UX designer.” Graphic design roles go fast, and UX is yet another “need 5 years experience to get started” fields. I figure I’ll just throw what I have out until something sticks. Also, I’m going to lose my poo poo if they try to negotiate my role and salary with me when I leave. I’ve pushed for it multiple times. They’ve lost any confidence that they’ll do it for me or my coworkers. I’m extremely checked out.
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Oct 5, 2021 21:30
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@omne Is your product-(line) growing? I mean maybe you're promoted and they're bringing in a VP because there's a lot of planned expansion. Could also be why they're hiring that VP, someone who's taken a product along that growth journey or proven at the targeted scale. Which would be no knock against you and probably an overall positive.
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Oct 5, 2021 22:17
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Lockback posted:Why do you think they'd replace you? They brought you in to do 2 peoples jobs when they canned your boss and now they are getting the 2nd person in. It sucks that they are doing that vs giving you a better shake but it seems like you came out of this ahead in general by scooping up the Director title. There aren't a ton of opportunities to make that jump and leaving now will probably bump you back down. It's more that they don't need two people to do the work; as director, I manage all PMs and the UX Manager (three people report to her). What would the VP do, without taking away my scope of work? I fully understand that the title is already a big win, since director actually matter in the product world - one of the main reasons I left my last place was their refusal to give me the correct title and instead go with senior manager. CEO wants me to call the guy he wants to bring in and brainstorm how we'd break up the work, which feels very strange to me. Xguard86 posted:@omne Yeah it's a high-growth B2B SaaS company, de-risked, hitting the Rule of 40 so things are growing. That's definitely a possibility, as it sounds like an acquisition may be in the works. An argument against that, though, is that this guy exits after Series A, so he's more of a 0-1 guy and not someone that takes a company further. I, on the other hand, have built a product team and gone from B to C. If my boss had a better plan he could articulate for how he sees this working, that'd be one thing. But my objectives are to get the process set up and the team hired, which I am on track to do ahead of schedule. After that, then what? If the VP is running strategy, there's not much for me to do. And having one director report to a VP doesn't make sense; seems like my position could easily be eliminated.
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Oct 5, 2021 23:52
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Our product directors do a hell of a lot and I don't think one person would be able to handle everything. How was the work split up before your boss got fired? If they wanted to replace you having you work with this guy would be the last thing they'd do. It seems like you're getting riled up over an org chart that doesn't actually exist yet.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:07
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Lockback posted:Our product directors do a hell of a lot and I don't think one person would be able to handle everything. How was the work split up before your boss got fired? It wasn't divided up; they had a "PM" who helped organize things, but that wasn't his main job or skillset. They hired a VP and the UX Manager to build out the process, team, etc. and get a true product development process going. I was the first PM hire, and within the first week they fired the VP for lack of performance - apparently he would consistently ghost meetings. He leaves, they talk about posting the position again, and as I'm there to help them, they realize that I can do the job so I get the battlefield promotion. That happened just over four weeks ago. My development process has been implemented and squad structure settled, I've hired one PM with another going to final round interviews, and a designer at the same stage. Edit: I'm getting riled up because I feel like I'm not even being given a chance to do the job yet. I've got whiplash on how quickly everything changes Omne fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 6, 2021 |
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Oct 6, 2021 00:15
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Yeah the change management here is bad and you legit have a gripe about that but I think it's pretty obvious since it's only been 4 weeks that they had a certain role in mind for your job and the VP job and while you've been probably doing fine for both it's not what they wanted for that role. Were you hired to be the face to the investors and convince them the product strategy is the correct one? Because that's what a Product VP is going to be doing. It's way more than getting a team running, which is important, but there's more stuff that needs to be done. So now build your role with the Director title. Your CEO is asking you to do that. It's a good opportunity, a better one than you had when you were reporting to useless VP. Your thinking about "What will new VP take from me" but the reality is there is probably a poo poo ton of stuff that they want the new VP to do that no one has been doing. The obvious split is cutting apart the Product and UX roles, so having your UX manager report to the VP. Then I'd probably talk to him about you focusing on (what sounds like lots) of more tactical things that need to be done while new-VP focus on bigger picture stuff and being the face to your board, building the slide decks of doom, etc. I think you can carve out the stuff you want here. Btw, I report to a VP of Engineering. He has 2 reports. An operational lead with 0 reports and me, with a full group of nearing 30 people. I am not at all concerned about my position being eliminated because I do WAYYYY different stuff than my boss does and if they eliminated my position they'd just need to refill it.
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Oct 6, 2021 00:39
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Lockback posted:Yeah the change management here is bad and you legit have a gripe about that but I think it's pretty obvious since it's only been 4 weeks that they had a certain role in mind for your job and the VP job and while you've been probably doing fine for both it's not what they wanted for that role. Were you hired to be the face to the investors and convince them the product strategy is the correct one? Because that's what a Product VP is going to be doing. It's way more than getting a team running, which is important, but there's more stuff that needs to be done. I'll definitely try and keep the stuff I want to do and what will set me up for where I want to go in my career. Problem for me is I want to be doing the more product strategy work and less tactical stuff. My plan was to get things set up, and once the product squads are running smoothly, start working more on product strategy (which is currently directionless; the CEO tries to do this himself but it doesn't work well). If we hire a VP to do that, then once the teams are running, my growth would stop. I think the root cause of this is that they didn't have a sense for what they were hiring for with the other VP, haven't set clear expectations and responsibilities for me, and the potential VP. There wasn't a plan for any of this, where a VP would do X and a director would do Y, which is why it feels like whiplash. I've got a copy of the job description they were going to post before bumping me up into the role, I'll see if that included the strategy piece as well.
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Oct 6, 2021 02:00
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I think "Hey, I'd like to be part of the process of developing a strategy and grow in that direction" seems like a really good thing to include in that phone call. That seems appropriate.
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Oct 6, 2021 02:10
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I think you're going to do well if you can cultivate a good relationship with this new VP (and if they don't suck). Incumbent directors are often pretty influential. I saw that many times in my consulting days; new visionary VP hires us, but the 2 or 3 directors that predate them are really calling most of the shots. Flipside: If they suck but you play well with others and show "executive presence" then maybe sooner than later you're VP. That's probably faster than leaving with a raw director title for somewhere else where the CEO didn't just promote you. Last point: unless it's a comp thing, what's your best alternative job?
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Oct 6, 2021 03:00
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It's been a week since I gave notice and my boss has not said a word to me lol.
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Oct 6, 2021 03:28
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FAUXTON posted:It's been a week since I gave notice and my boss has not said a word to me lol. My first (verbally and emotionally abusive, narcissistic) boss didn't say anything during my entire notice period, which I handed to his PA when he was out of the office. It was glorious.
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Oct 6, 2021 05:30
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Xguard86 posted:I think you're going to do well if you can cultivate a good relationship with this new VP (and if they don't suck). Incumbent directors are often pretty influential. I saw that many times in my consulting days; new visionary VP hires us, but the 2 or 3 directors that predate them are really calling most of the shots. The story I was told was that this guy cold emailed my boss, looking for a permanent role after spending the past few years working on side projects and taking time off. I found the guy on LI In terms of my best alternative, it's probably sucking it up so I hit the year mark then try and leave for another director position. I've interviewed for several over the past year, just hadn't closed anything when this opportunity came up and I was wanting to leave my previous place. Comp was good for the role I was hired into, but the bump to director was basically a non-existent 4%. Even if I wanted to go back to an IC role, I'd probably make the same I make now
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Oct 6, 2021 14:21
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Well there ya go. Might as well play along while you clock the hours and reassess at the year mark. Maximum optionality. With the comp portion, prob you do better leaving anyway but who knows. Fwiw I've had several people tell me 2 years at director is what they look for when recruiting. A could people senior on SA included. Just something to keep in mind if you look in a year and don't like the offers. Edit: someone who can get a VP offer off a cold email might have skills worth learning. Another .2c
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Oct 6, 2021 14:43
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Xguard86 posted:Edit: someone who can get a VP offer off a cold email might have skills worth learning. Another .2c It might not be immediately obvious what his connections are, but he 100% has connections and called in a favor.
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Oct 6, 2021 16:46
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Dude it sounds like you’re way too caught up in the idea that you were in the running for the VP role at all. Sr mgr to director to VP in a matter of weeks as a new hire just isn’t going to happen. Bad communication from the CEO is a red flag, but so is tunnel vision on unrealistic title chasing.
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Oct 6, 2021 18:26
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Eric the Mauve posted:It might not be immediately obvious what his connections are, but he 100% has connections and called in a favor. Even better! Connected enough to call in a favor. Good friend to make.
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Oct 6, 2021 19:52
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Sharks Eat Bear posted:Dude it sounds like you’re way too caught up in the idea that you were in the running for the VP role at all. Sr mgr to director to VP in a matter of weeks as a new hire just isn’t going to happen. Bad communication from the CEO is a red flag, but so is tunnel vision on unrealistic title chasing. Dude, I don't think I was in the running for the VP role, because there wasn't one to begin with, hence the issues. I'm the director and I plan to do my job well, and work into the VP position over time. I'm upset that he would hire someone into that role, which would prevent me from getting there. And after speaking with a few other people, including others in the C-suite, this is universally looked at as a horrible idea and everyone is trying to talk him out of it because it's creating a position for a guy no one knows vs. hiring for a specific need. Omne fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Oct 7, 2021 |
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Oct 7, 2021 00:02
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Threadkiller Dog posted:A friend out of school got his first office job. Its barely been 2 months and he's already managed to end up in bed with one of the senior [married] partners in his firm. I nearly put issues but actually in the extreme cases I think we deal with them well when they need to be dealt with. One of my apprehensions about leaving my current role is going to a more professional office is likely to be a lot more boring!
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Oct 7, 2021 00:34
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When I worked in higher ed there were some spectacular office romance/meltdowns, including a senior Vice Provost announcing in a middle of a staff meeting that he'd met a new woman, fallen in love, and was quitting and leaving his wife and kids to move to New Jersey with her.
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Oct 7, 2021 01:13
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Corporate Megathread: Why aren't office romances working for me?
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Oct 7, 2021 01:43
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Don't dip your pen in the company ink is probably one of the most solid pieces of advice I've ever been given. Seriously, I've seen like one or two office romances work out One of them promptly fell apart once they got married and he started working somewhere else. Upgrade posted:When I worked in higher ed there were some spectacular office romance/meltdowns, including a senior Vice Provost announcing in a middle of a staff meeting that he'd met a new woman, fallen in love, and was quitting and leaving his wife and kids to move to New Jersey with her. 
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Oct 7, 2021 02:10
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Handsome Ralph posted:Seriously, I've seen like one or two office romances work out One of them promptly fell apart once they got married and he started working somewhere else. Met at work dropped from 19% to 11% between 1995 and 2017.
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Oct 7, 2021 02:18
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Being in hardware tech this is almost never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever an issue 
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Oct 7, 2021 03:05
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Apparently they’re common enough at my MegaCorp that the rule is the adulterer has to leave the vanpool.
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Oct 7, 2021 03:06
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Reporting in from the world of restructure hell again. Our head of department, knowing that we all want redundancies, has created a new structure and deliberately not matched anyone directly into new roles - this is great because those who want redundancies should get one, and people who want to stay can apply for the new roles. But now it's with HR, who are going to try their hardest to match people into the roles directly, because it saves them mad cash. It's actually kind of genius on the business's part. 1. Tell an entire team they're going to be cut 2. Promise them money for doing so 3. Retract the cutting under the guise of "it was only a proposal" 4. Put everyone who was told they were redundant back into the new structure 5. Everyone's morale is destroyed and they quit 6. Because they quit of their own volition, you don't have to pay severance. I had a really good interview today which I'm hoping pans out into a sweet new role - but drat it'd be nice if I got a severance payment instead of having to resign.
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Oct 7, 2021 04:36
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I was witness to a good sized merger (a 500 person branch of an Anglo-Irish insurance company took over the 200 person insurance unit of a bank) and they had a great system. Let the redundancy rumour get started, start offering it to a few executives, say the final offer for employees isn't ready yet and keep working on it for months, implement tons of busy work tracking various useless metrics in every department and pit teams against each other to reach the meaningless targets until enough people burn out from stress and quit that you don't need to offer redundancies anyway.
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Oct 7, 2021 10:29
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Apparently they’re common enough at my MegaCorp that the rule is the adulterer has to leave the vanpool. lol, I would love to see how HR would address this in the employee handbook.
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Oct 7, 2021 15:22
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My boss holds twice weekly small team meetings where she basically just goes through and talks through her closing her tickets and answering emails while we watch on screenshare. Like… could we review and hand out items so I don’t have to watch you type for an hour? She’s otherwise pretty decent but this is an extremely weird use of our time.
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Oct 7, 2021 16:08
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BadSamaritan posted:My boss holds twice weekly small team meetings where she basically just goes through and talks through her closing her tickets and answering emails while we watch on screenshare. I had a boos like this. We used to refer to it as "Oh, she's holding court today, yay."
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Oct 7, 2021 16:27
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I'm in a leadership Q&A session and they are clearly on a go-slow. 50 minutes in, 3 questions (pre-planned) have been asked.
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Oct 7, 2021 16:51
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Motronic posted:I had a boos like this. This should be the thread title just for October 
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Oct 7, 2021 18:02
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I started my current role in July, and wanted to at least go into the office to meet a couple of co-workers. It's one of those Really Nice Offices - got a couple of gardens, too, which is props for NYC - but I'm still glad we have no real solid plans to require in-person presence anytime soon. It's almost such a waste - I'd have been OK with the commute and the working environment in pre-pandemic times, but I'm spoiled forever. Nothing, absolutely nothing beats "I've got 30 minutes downtime, I'm gonna go do Chore X so I don't have to later". They even gave me an actual real office - it's a small one but I've got a medically necessary treadmill desk, and it wouldn't fit in the team cube space. Oh darn, gotta find weird posters to decorate with.
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Oct 7, 2021 20:51
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Has anyone ever seen change management done right?
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Oct 7, 2021 21:27
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FrozenVent posted:Has anyone ever seen change management done right? Does the concept even exist?
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Oct 7, 2021 21:52
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FrozenVent posted:Has anyone ever seen change management done right? Once. Insolvency.
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Oct 7, 2021 22:23
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FrozenVent posted:Has anyone ever seen change management done right? Nope
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Oct 7, 2021 22:38
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Updated Workplace Harassment training...quote:.....Steve is worried he is going to catch COVID-19 from his coworker, Jim, because Jim is Asian...... FrozenVent posted:Has anyone ever seen change management done right? Nope. Does anyone even know what change management done right looks like?
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Oct 7, 2021 22:59
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