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Ghost of Starman posted:Speaking of, what is the purpose of Belfry Luna and Belfry Sol? I know some sort of important key was behind the Gargoyle fight in original DS2 - now that it's not, do the Belfries basically just exist as fun little side-areas with a LOT of opt-in PvP? Pretty much. Some people go there (Belfry Sol) to farm the mad warrior set since he spawns there. I think there's also some simpleton's spice in the area. E: In Belfry Luna, since as you mentioned you don't need to kill the gargoyles for the Bastille Key anymore, there aren't many things of note outside of the Southern Ritual Band and skeptic's spice. If you want to use the Dragon Tooth I think it's there as well. Rob Haldorson fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 01:10
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ONE is there. Another is found later in an optional area.
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Dec 18, 2015 01:33
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I wonder who we'll meet in Dark Souls 3 that travels around the world and inevitably goes crazy?
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Dec 18, 2015 01:45
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Okay, gonna take on whoever the boss is in Aldia's Keep. Based on everything I've seen I'm expecting a giant deformed experiment. I can do this, fear is the mindkiller! That royal sorcerer invading spirit is a dick if you don't gank him as soon as he spawns! e: *2 minutes later* A dragon?! Haha it was so easy! Charles Bukowski fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 01:54
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he's basically a miniboss, really. I guess he's the other half of the dragonrider; maybe if you combined them you'd get one difficult boss
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Dec 18, 2015 01:59
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Guardian Dragon is a joke. Even his song sucks. I don't get how Aldia's Keep turned out so mediocre. Given it was one of the first areas showed off you'd think it would of had a lot of work done on it, but it sure didn't feel that way.
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Dec 18, 2015 02:01
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It was probably one of the zones they had to rework the most since the original setup was way too intense for the PS3 and 360, and unlike the Forest of Fallen Giants it isn't a zone that gives players a first impression of what the rest of the game will be like. I'm willing to bet they didn't put an enormous amount of effort into it after the first run-around was a poor decision.
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Dec 18, 2015 02:23
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Internet Kraken posted:Even his song sucks. Having played through the game three times I can remember literally no boss music. It all just runs together in one ominous orchestral blob.
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Dec 18, 2015 02:24
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Charles Bukowski posted:Okay, gonna take on whoever the boss is in Aldia's Keep. Based on everything I've seen I'm expecting a giant deformed experiment. I can do this, fear is the mindkiller! That royal sorcerer invading spirit is a dick if you don't gank him as soon as he spawns! If you want to get your rear end kicked by dragons keep playing.
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Dec 18, 2015 02:30
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fool_of_sound posted:Having played through the game three times I can remember literally no boss music. It all just runs together in one ominous orchestral blob. Smelter/Sentinels and the Chariot are all I remember, and that's because those were done by a different person and sound way better.
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Dec 18, 2015 02:57
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Any idea why I can't powerstance a Greatsword despite meeting the requirements (it's 50% extra str and dex, isn't it?). When I try it just 2 hands my offhand weapon (and yes, both are Slash/Thrust Greatswords: Mirrah Greatsword and Bluemoon Greatsword). Elman fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 12:17
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If you don't meet the stat requirements, of if the weapons your using aren't compatible with each other, your off hand weapon is two-handed when you try to power-stance. So if you have 42 Str & 30 Dex, then I guess those two aren't power-stance compatible. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 13:17
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Having played the poo poo out of DS1 and loved it, I played this game for six hours and it's the most miserable time I've had in a video game. The designers seem to have confused not giving you poo poo to work with for actual difficulty, and everything I've seen or looked up about it is bafflingly bad, either lazily ripped off from DS1 (DARK Ornstein wooooo) or just specifically set up to permanently and irrevocably poo poo on you for failing. I recommend that you do not buy this game.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:11
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Would you mind expanding on that thought? Because that sure is an opinion that warrant it.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:14
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Dabir posted:Having played the poo poo out of DS1 and loved it, I played this game for six hours and it's the most miserable time I've had in a video game. The designers seem to have confused not giving you poo poo to work with for actual difficulty, and everything I've seen or looked up about it is bafflingly bad, either lazily ripped off from DS1 (DARK Ornstein wooooo) or just specifically set up to permanently and irrevocably poo poo on you for failing. I recommend that you do not buy this game. The Ornstein reprise is literally the only boss that's been 'recycled' and it's completely different compared to DS1 (new moveset, no smough, arena without cover) and also optional. I don't really know about the rest of your points; DS2 seems pretty easy to me in comparison to DS1. What do you mean 'not giving you poo poo to work with'? The lack of good shields/weapons at the start (i.e. the first 30 minutes, maybe) or something? I mean, opinions are opinions but this just seems like crapping on a game for no good reason.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:51
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Dabir posted:Having played the poo poo out of DS1 and loved it, I played this game for six hours and it's the most miserable time I've had in a video game. The designers seem to have confused not giving you poo poo to work with for actual difficulty, and everything I've seen or looked up about it is bafflingly bad, either lazily ripped off from DS1 (DARK Ornstein wooooo) or just specifically set up to permanently and irrevocably poo poo on you for failing. I recommend that you do not buy this game. How far along did you get in your six hours? I mean, which bosses did you beat?
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Dec 18, 2015 15:54
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Isapent a while dicking around and gave up in disgust when a weapon shattered in the big room full of people playing dead and the bonfire didn't fix it. Up to that point I had three broken swords and a dagger that was outclassing all of them.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:07
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Dabir posted:Isapent a while dicking around and gave up in disgust when a weapon shattered in the big room full of people playing dead and the bonfire didn't fix it. Up to that point I had three broken swords and a dagger that was outclassing all of them. Durability is automatically refilled when you rest at a bonfire unless an item is at 0 durability, at which point you need to have it repaired by one of the game's blacksmiths (typically Leningrast, although you can easily get to MacDuff with SotFS instead).
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Dec 18, 2015 16:11
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So you literally made it through about 10% of the first area. Did you, uh, play Dark Souls 1?
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Dec 18, 2015 16:12
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Samopsa posted:The Ornstein reprise is literally the only boss that's been 'recycled' and it's completely different compared to DS1 (new moveset, no smough, arena without cover) and also optional. I don't really know about the rest of your points; DS2 seems pretty easy to me in comparison to DS1. What do you mean 'not giving you poo poo to work with'? The lack of good shields/weapons at the start (i.e. the first 30 minutes, maybe) or something? orn might be the only straight rip off, but ds2 recycles tons of bosses from itself. and it's also true there's a lot of bullshit design, like having most of the difficulty stem from fighting multiple enemies with a combat system designed for 1v1. most areas and bosses that are pretty tough solo are super easy if you summon. it took me at least 20 hours and 2 characters to stop really disliking ds2 and even now I don't think the improvements outweigh the steps backward, so saying the game is poo poo doesn't strike me as an invalid opinion.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:14
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dreezy posted:most areas and bosses that are pretty tough solo are super easy if you summon. This is true of Dark Souls 1, and will be true of every game in this series. Also the only boss DS 2 recycles outside of the DLC is Dragonrider. So complaining about that when DS1 had Asylum Demon three loving times is a joke.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:19
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Iceclaw posted:Would you mind expanding on that thought? Because that sure is an opinion that warrant it. Can't say I disagree. The first few hours are miserable until you level your Adaptability a little and get 2-3 estus flasks, and after that you're probably gonna be banging your head against enemies way over your current level cause the only obvious path goes to the Bastille, which is probably the hardest of the 4 starter areas. The problem is the other paths require you to randomly find out Miracle Lady opens a shortcut (is there a single clue to help you with this?), to get a Branch of Yore (nowhere to be found until the end of the Bastille path, at least in vanilla) or to be able to jump down the well. Most players are going to be locked out of 3 of the 4 paths for a while, then they'll power through them after getting way overleveled. It makes for a shittier first playthrough. Once you know what you're doing it's easier than 1, but the world design is still pretty bad. It's designed as a bunch of individual stages like in Demon's Souls, but then they try to glue them together and pretend it's an open world game even though it really isn't. The only path that has a clear theme and isn't just a bunch of random levels glued together is the Well. The bosses are just as random and not very memorable, story or gameplay wise. Mind you, I still love it. The combat is solid and that's all it takes to make it great. Plus the SotFS changes really made a difference for the better. But I feel DS1 was the better game, yeah.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:19
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I don't like the whole "no criticism of Souls allowed" mentality, but it's also kinda silly to have your two complaints be "lazily ripped off bosses" (you picked out one of TWO reused bosses in the game counting the quad-goyles, and ignored the ~30 bosses that are new) and making GBS threads on you for failing in a system nearly identical to Souls 1 which you loved. Plenty of folks got stuck in the Undead Burg with a broken short sword wondering what the hell. I picked up PS4 Scholar after getting the Souls itch reading about DS3 - I plat'd the original PS3 version pretty soon after release. like it more than the original DS2. Mostly breezed through the game despite the changes, just now getting to the tougher stuff for me (DLC, beating Ancient Dragon & Vendrick) and the parts I still had trouble with despite experience: - Iron Keep first half (archers really hurt + katana dudes...) - Aldia's Keep (took 3 tries and just ran past everything) - Dragon Shrine (those little fuckers everywhere!) - Shaded Ruins (were those invisible guys everywhere before?) - Brightstone camp (more painful archers, poor Bernhart would never survive unless I cleared out the camp first) I thought these areas were much easier than I remember in vanilla DS2: - Shrine of Amana was SO MUCH easier, although sounds like that's been the case since a patch - Earthen Peak (rearrangement of fire sorceresses) - Lost Bastille (just one flexile in the water, easier to get key) - In general, felt like fewer ambushes overall. Less bullshit with curse lizards and the Gutter well bottom with those exploding guys in the water was less merciless. Maybe I was just expecting it. Time to see how quick I can zip to NG++ and get another plat... last go around, beating the 4 old souls was actually faster than farming The Rotten. Electromax fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 16:23
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People seem to readily forget that DS1's difficulty was also mostly about fighting multiple opponents with a combat system designed for 1v1 engagements and getting hosed over by environmental traps. Having played both (and having invested several hundred hours into DS2), people's preference for DS1 over DS2 stems primarily from it being a more cohesive experience. The storytelling, atmosphere, and pace of the game are all excellently put together (up until after O&S) in comparison to DS2.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:23
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Dabir posted:Having played the poo poo out of DS1 and loved it, I played this game for six hours and it's the most miserable time I've had in a video game. The designers seem to have confused not giving you poo poo to work with for actual difficulty, and everything I've seen or looked up about it is bafflingly bad, either lazily ripped off from DS1 (DARK Ornstein wooooo) or just specifically set up to permanently and irrevocably poo poo on you for failing. I recommend that you do not buy this game. First of all who the gently caress do you think would still buy this game? its been out for almost 2 years, everybody who reads your post already has 100+ hours in DS2. Like seriously what do you think you're doing right now? Is this a quote from reddit? Second of all, DS2 rules and you're a giant baby. Not giving you poo poo to work with? What poo poo do they give you in DS1 that they dont' give you in DS2?  Dabir posted:Isapent a while dicking around and gave up in disgust when a weapon shattered in the big room full of people playing dead and the bonfire didn't fix it. Up to that point I had three broken swords and a dagger that was outclassing all of them. Holy poo poo you're dumb. You can't figure out how durability works or how to talk to a blacksmith? Are you sure you played the poo poo out of DS1? DS1 didn't even have blacksmith in firelink, you had to go to New Londo or worse to get to one. DS2 has a blacksmith literally right in the starting town as soon as the game begins. (Door's locked but getting the key is trivial in the first zone) Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 16:23
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Why would you ever think the combat system in these games is designed for 1v1? What, are you ignoring all weapon types that aren't rapiers? Rather than changing how you play significantly, the enemies in the game are designed to fight you many-on-once. They have longer windups and large periods where they're vulnerable and easily syncable AIs. And I'm going to throw it out here: the best areas in Dark Souls 1 mechanically are ones where you fight lots of enemies at once (Undead Burg, Catacombs, Oolacile)
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Dec 18, 2015 16:24
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Zaphod42 posted:Not giving you poo poo to work with? What poo poo do they give you in DS1 that they dont' give you in DS2? Healing and no punishment for dying. I actually struggled with DS2 my first hour playing it because I didn't know about the estus shard system and was playing with only one flask. I was also super rusty after not playing for I dunno how long. So after burning through all my regen I was in a state where it didn't feel like I could progress very far since I only had one flask and no gems left. Once I asked around and realized I missed a bunch of shards, things became a lot easier. This was partially my fault for not exploring in the right places, but I don't think restricting your basic healing item so heavily at the start was a good idea. The effigy system is way more punishing than death in DS1 though still perfectly manageable. Mighty Dicktron posted:And I'm going to throw it out here: the best areas in Dark Souls 1 mechanically are ones where you fight lots of enemies at once (Undead Burg, Catacombs, Oolacile) Fighting multiple enemies has been a part of the series since Demon's Souls. People complaining about it in DS2 is ridiculous. Its like the only areas they remember from DS1 are Anor Londo and the Kiln. EDIT: lmao checking my first few posts in this thread I made the newbie mistake of thinking Heide's was the intended first area 
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Dec 18, 2015 16:31
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Mighty Dicktron posted:Why would you ever think the combat system in these games is designed for 1v1? The lock-on targeting and inability to (normally) cancel moves once they're in-progress makes fighting multiple strong opponents incredibly frustrating and nearly impossible unless you can either separate them out (e.g. O&S) or have the patience for them to exhaust their full combos before going in for a swing or two. Funneling a bunch of weak enemies into a corridor and killing them with a sweeping weapon almost completely removes the actual meat-and-potatoes of Dark Souls' difficulty (pattern memorization). It's like adding in jumping puzzles to DS: the functionality is certainly there, but it in no way plays to the strengths of the underlying system and instead exposes its weakness openly. Internet Kraken posted:Healing and no punishment for dying. I actually struggled with DS2 my first hour playing it because I didn't know about the estus shard system and was playing with only one flask. Y'all knew about Lifegems, right? The game's set up pretty explicitly to have those as your primary healing source until you can get 3-4 shards and a few Bone Dusts.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:33
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Internet Kraken posted:Healing and no punishment for dying. I actually struggled with DS2 my first hour playing it because I didn't know about the estus shard system and was playing with only one flask. I was also super rusty after not playing for I dunno how long. So after burning through all my regen I was in a state where it didn't feel like I could progress very far since I only had one flask and no gems left. Once I asked around and realized I missed a bunch of shards, things became a lot easier. This was partially my fault for not exploring in the right places, but I don't think restricting your basic healing item so heavily at the start was a good idea. Its a little rough yeah, but at worst its still not as bad as DeS which is considered one of the best games in the series by most. DS1's world is a bit cooler than DS2's but complaining that DS2 doesn't give you enough tools to work with is insane to me. You get too many healing items if anything, between flasks AND gems. You get way more weapons, armor, spells, rings, etc. than you did in DS1. You even have new basic options in combat like power stancing. Also it may not be quite as bad but lots of players in DS1 either missed most of the fire keeper souls or even cracked them for souls not realizing what they were. The nature of these games is that some people are going to miss things and that's going to make them harder; you just gotta pay attention and be observant! Overall I do think DS1's healing system is the best, but if anything my complaint about DS2 is that its too easy, not too hard or too punishing.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:35
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Vermain posted:Y'all knew about Lifegems, right? The game's set up pretty explicitly to have those as your primary healing source until you can get 3-4 shards and a few Bone Dusts. I did but I used them all up quickly because I was used to the DS1 healing. I didn't want to grind hollows to get more and couldn't buy any from the merchant so I was pretty salty about the whole thing given that the estus system is the whole reason I fell in love with Dark Souls in the first place. Once I actually got some more flasks I was fine with it. Like Zaphod said, it actually ends up making the game easier since you have more access to regen than Dark Souls, where you had to commit to overkindling every bonfire to get tons of flasks.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:45
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I thought Dark Souls 1 level design was more interesting, but Dark Souls 2 has a way more interesting story and themes, and ones that strongly resonate with the gameplay at that. e: yeah, one starting estus really sucks. They should have given you like three and taken out the one in the well and on the Pursuer balcony.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:48
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Dabir posted:Isapent a while dicking around and gave up in disgust when a weapon shattered in the big room full of people playing dead and the bonfire didn't fix it. Up to that point I had three broken swords and a dagger that was outclassing all of them. I remember having a similar frustrating experience. I played Dark Souls II right after release and the durability bug was far more pronounced back then. I did a bunch searching to find another usable weapon and I clawed my way back. All of that said, I'm glad I did, the game grew on me a lot after I got the hang of things and a few estus flask shards. Since you "played the poo poo out of DS1" I'm confident that you can overcome this setback. I believe in you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve_1DvNy5Vs
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Dec 18, 2015 16:48
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fool_of_sound posted:I thought Dark Souls 1 level design was more interesting, but Dark Souls 2 has a way more interesting story and themes, and ones that strongly resonate with the gameplay at that. I don't think I'd say "way" more interesting, but also I don't really think I cared for DS2's story/themes until the DLCs. I kind of wish the story of the three DLCs had been the main story, not the "link the flame again" plot.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:53
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fool_of_sound posted:e: yeah, one starting estus really sucks. They should have given you like three and taken out the one in the well and on the Pursuer balcony. Yeah, although considering the well one is right there in town the only reason not to get it is because you missed it. Souls games you gotta be observant!
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Dec 18, 2015 16:53
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Harrow posted:I don't think I'd say "way" more interesting, but also I don't really think I cared for DS2's story/themes until the DLCs. I kind of wish the story of the three DLCs had been the main story, not the "link the flame again" plot. 'Link the flame again' isn't really the plot. You don't even really comprehend that's what you're doing until the very end, which is very much the point. It's also why the 'walk away' ending is so important, because after all your struggles under the promise that everything would be better, in the end you realize that all you are doing is perpetuating a cycle. That's what Aldia's exposition is about : do you submit to your role in the cycle, or do you keep fighting? Zaphod42 posted:Yeah, although considering the well one is right there in town the only reason not to get it is because you missed it. Souls games you gotta be observant! Punching the rock into the well is hella not fair to newbies. I wouldn't have even tried had someone else not told me I could.
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Dec 18, 2015 17:03
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fool_of_sound posted:
It's pretty much bullshit. My first play through was blind so once I beat the last boss I looked up what I missed and I was so pissed that it was there the whole time.
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Dec 18, 2015 17:06
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fool_of_sound posted:Punching the rock into the well is hella not fair to newbies. I wouldn't have even tried had someone else not told me I could. I dunno dude after DS1 I was totally looking for things like that everywhere I go, I discovered the rock in majula literally the first time I booted up DS2. If you don't crawl over every inch of souls' levels looking for treasures you're doing it wrong! Lovable Luciferian posted:It's pretty much bullshit. My first play through was blind so once I beat the last boss I looked up what I missed and I was so pissed that it was there the whole time. I play every souls game blind the first time and had no trouble finding it. Watch Kay's lets play sometime, she goes in blind and manages to find all kinds of secrets like that no problem. You just can't be rushing through, you gotta actually stop and think.
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Dec 18, 2015 17:08
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Zaphod42 posted:I play every souls game blind the first time and had no trouble finding it. Then you're a better man/gamer/goon than I.
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Dec 18, 2015 17:08
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fool_of_sound posted:'Link the flame again' isn't really the plot. You don't even really comprehend that's what you're doing until the very end, which is very much the point. It's also why the 'walk away' ending is so important, because after all your struggles under the promise that everything would be better, in the end you realize that all you are doing is perpetuating a cycle. That's what Aldia's exposition is about : do you submit to your role in the cycle, or do you keep fighting? I think that's why I didn't like it. In the end it felt like exactly the same choice as Dark Souls--do you perpetuate the cycle of the Age of Fire or do you walk away? (Plus, when I first played the "walk away" option wasn't there, but that's not really my gripe.) What really undermined it for me was the way the game very explicitly highlights the fact that you don't know what you're doing. In Dark Souls, you didn't know what you were doing for a lot of the game beyond following a vague prophecy, and nobody else in the world did, and all you had to go on eventually was the words of some weird-rear end serpent with bad breath. He omits some key facts, but does so without alluding to the fact that he's doing that. Dark Souls II, on the other hand, is full of themes of forgetting and withholding--the game reminds you, over and over again, that you don't know what you're doing, and that you won't know what you're doing. Meanwhile, several key NPCs do know, and they remind you of the fact that you don't rather than just withholding information without telegraphing that they're doing so. Something about all that telegraphing felt heavy-handed to me and I found that off-putting. Maybe it's like... Dark Souls was passively vague, while Dark Souls II was actively vague? Does that make any sense or do I sound like a moron? I liked the DLC stories so much because they felt so much more human, especially Crown of the Ivory King. It wasn't repeatedly beaten into you that you don't know what's going on--the game just kind of softly accepted that you don't and left it up to you to go find out. Maybe part of it is that I'm still not sold on the idea that Dark Souls needed direct sequels anyway, including the upcoming one. I think I'd have preferred a new setting with new themes each time. I don't want a direct sequel to Demon's Souls or Bloodborne, either--all of them did such a complete job of painting their worlds that adding on any further would deaden some of the wonder. Harrow fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 17:12
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Lovable Luciferian posted:I remember having a similar frustrating experience. I played Dark Souls II right after release and the durability bug was far more pronounced back then. I did a bunch searching to find another usable weapon and I clawed my way back. All of that said, I'm glad I did, the game grew on me a lot after I got the hang of things and a few estus flask shards. Since you "played the poo poo out of DS1" I'm confident that you can overcome this setback. I believe in you. I'm sure I could too but I don't want to. And yes, I walked into a two year old thread with like 1300 pages and figured "hey a bunch of these guys are probably on the fence".
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Dec 18, 2015 17:13
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