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No one gives a poo poo about lovely Star Wars books.
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Jan 1, 2016 02:08
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Shbobdb posted:No one gives a poo poo about lovely Star Wars books.
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Jan 1, 2016 02:12
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TerminalSaint posted:Other highlights included: On my opening night showing, when Rey uncovered the lightsaber in Maz Kanata's palace, some guy semi-yelled "SCHWING" as the camera focused in on the saber. I chuckled. ImpAtom posted:Adam Driver absolutely did a great job with a role that had to be stressful as hell because you know a single mistake and you're the new Hayden Christensen. Agreed. He nailed it. Though when it was announced that he was cast, I had the feeling he'd make a great villain.
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Jan 1, 2016 02:19
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Adam Driver's the only good thing about Girls so when they were like "He's the villain" I was super happy.
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Jan 1, 2016 02:23
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I thought Leia talked about not much liking the new republic in the movie? When people quote something, I assume it is from the movie or widely read official promotions (including deleted filmed scenes). Growing up, a lot of kids knew about Vader getting ducked up after fighting Obi Wan on a volcano. I never knew anybody (myself included) who knew who Jayden was until SA started talking about him.
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Jan 1, 2016 02:27
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TerminalSaint posted:When it was reveled that R2 was in low power mode, the genius woman next to me said aloud in a pleading tone "plug him in." This is incredible, and my favorite thing I've read about the movie. The Lord of Hats posted:Given the number of callbacks we've had at this point, I kind of wonder if we're going to see somebody piloting the Slave-1 in the future. That was a cool ship. Well, that is highly likely. Some rear end in a top hat in the Aftermath book who declared himself sheriff of Tatooine or something already has Boba Fett's armor.
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Jan 1, 2016 03:15
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It's a little bitter of me but I really hope we don't. I liked that every world in TFA was new. I don't want them to make some thin excuse to go back to Hoth or Dagobah or god forbid Tatooine. I'd prefer we don't see Boba Fett or Globo Fett his xerox clone-of-a-clone or whatever.
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Jan 1, 2016 03:17
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ImpAtom posted:It's a little bitter of me but I really hope we don't. I liked that every world in TFA was new. I don't want them to make some thin excuse to go back to Hoth or Dagobah or god forbid Tatooine. I'd prefer we don't see Boba Fett or Globo Fett his xerox clone-of-a-clone or whatever. It's not bitter at all. It's a big galaxy and it makes the universe feel more vibrant and adventurous if we keep seeing new worlds and characters. I would be disappointed if we go back to any planet we've seen before at this point and I feel like the writers so far have a good grasp of capturing that given the other "retread" moments they clearly worked to side-step. Like the freighter escape in Episode VIII, even if Kanjiclub had 30 seconds total of screen-time, it wasn't just Blorgo the Hutt and it made that scene way better, especially featuring humans who don't speak the same language as the rest.
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Jan 1, 2016 03:22
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Jakku and Hosnia are literally just Tatooine and Coruscant with the names changed. They even kept the "why does everyone want to go back to Tatooine?!" joke, from a presumably-earlier draft.
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Jan 1, 2016 03:53
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ImpAtom posted:It's a little bitter of me but I really hope we don't. I liked that every world in TFA was new. I don't want them to make some thin excuse to go back to Hoth or Dagobah or god forbid Tatooine. I'd prefer we don't see Boba Fett or Globo Fett his xerox clone-of-a-clone or whatever. The planets were only nominally new. Again, Jakku basically is Tatooine. Remember, Lucas really only went back to Tatooine twice after the OT (because I think counting its brilliant one-scene appearance during ROTS's coda is kind of unfair). Both times there were compelling story reasons to return to Tatooine, and both times we were shown a completely different side of the planet and culture (in TPM we were shown how the people in the more "civilized" cities lived, and in AOTC we were given insight into the nature of the intergenerational conflict between the frontier settlers and the Tusken Raiders). Jakku is doing the same thing--it's just showing us a different side of Tatooine. Nothing about the actual planetary environment itself or the aesthetics of the native society is distinctive enough to set it apart in any serious way. For all intents and purposes, Jakku is just a part of Tatooine where there happen to be a bunch of junked starships lying around, and where the dirty, scavenging Jawas have been replaced by people like Rey. Essentially, we're just seeing Tatooine through the eyes of the Jawas. The fact that the planet happens to have a different name in the script doesn't actually mean anything. Unfortunately, the sandy deserts of Dubai just don't come across as all that distinct from the sandy deserts of Tunisia--at least not in this film. If we hadn't been told otherwise, everyone would have just assumed that we were back on Tatooine. In fact, that's exactly what people did assume at first from the production photos. It could have been Mos Espa from Episode I. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, like I pointed out, it's essentially the same thing the prequels did. Tatooine's a important place in the Star Wars mythos. Anakin started his journey there, Luke started his journey there, and now Rey has started her journey there. It makes sense. I really enjoyed the imagery of the giant Star Destroyer wreck half-buried in the sand. I only wish the other planets in the film had been more original.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:04
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Why wasn't wedge honored at the award ceremony in new hope?
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Jan 1, 2016 04:16
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There was a living Y-wing pilot or two who didn't get honored, either.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:18
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Bigass Moth posted:Why wasn't wedge honored at the award ceremony in new hope? Wedge didn't rescue the princess, blow up the Death Star, or score a hit on a Sith Lord's starfighter. The Alliance's executive leadership explicitly decided that those are the only three things that can make you eligible for a medal. They don't hand out a lot of medals.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:21
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Only winners get medals. If you don't blow up the death star you better have supported the guy who did. All these new republic youth thinking everyone should get medals. In my day podracing didn't allow humans and we liked it that way
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Jan 1, 2016 04:29
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Cnut the Great posted:The planets were only nominally new. Again, Jakku basically is Tatooine. Cnut the Great posted:Remember, Lucas really only went back to Tatooine twice after the OT (because I think counting its brilliant one-scene appearance during ROTS's coda is kind of unfair) Lucas goes to Tatooine in four our of six films, five if you count RotS. It at very least appears in every single film except for ESB.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:29
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Cnut the Great posted:Wedge didn't rescue the princess, blow up the Death Star, or score a hit on a Sith Lord's starfighter. The Alliance's executive leadership explicitly decided that those are the only three things that can make you eligible for a medal. They don't hand out a lot of medals. Why didn't Chewbacca get a medal. Just watched new hope for the first time in years, it has not aged well compared to 5 and 6. I forgot leia had an in and out British accent.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:33
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ImpAtom posted:No, it really isn't. Jakku has nothing in common with Tatooine (that we're shown) aside from being a desert planet. The mere fact you describe it as "just Tatooine that happens to have a bunch of junked spaceships around" is pretty reductive when it explicitly goes out of its way to emphasize that those wrecked ships represent the culture of the planet in a way which is fairly distinct and different from Tatooine in any of the films. Scavenging is a pretty large part of Tatooine, it's just usually not done by human characters. In this film you have the roles reversed - the human is the one selling scrap to the alien and who does heavy negotiation for droids (although Rey eventually says she doesn't want to sell him).
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Jan 1, 2016 04:39
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You had dead creatures on tatooine and dead things on Jakku. It rhymes but saying they are the same is dumb. If nothing else, tatooine was purposefully alien with its two suns, contrasting with fairly pedestrian (even suburban) problems faced by Luke. Jakku is foreign but familiar (desert with one sun, sledding, dragons gate, etc) contrasting with pretty unrelateable problems (orphan/prisoner just trying to survive) punctuated with relatable escapism (dorking out with the helmet). They are alike insofar as a Roma tomato and a red delicious are both red and fruit.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:43
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This is the kind of question Star Wars never concerns itself with, but I wonder if Jakku has any native species at all.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:48
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Shbobdb posted:No one gives a poo poo about lovely Star Wars books. That's why we're not talking about the lovely ones.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:51
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Rust Monsters, obviously.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:52
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Vitamin P posted:I'm honestly surprised that SMG is so down on the Resistance, because to me the politics of TFA were pretty clear. The Republic has allowed "the cruelty" of the galaxy to thrive, personified by Simon Peggs lazy feudal capitalism, while being ambivalent about the growing facist threat. The Resistance are more like an anti-facist protest movement than anything else, just with X-Wings. No-one is ever 'merely' antifascist. The opening crawl (and Max Von Sydow) tell us that Leia has a greater project of using Jedi knights to bring "peace and justice" to the galaxy. What does that entail? ImpAtom posted:No, it really isn't. Jakku has nothing in common with Tatooine (that we're shown) aside from being a desert planet. The mere fact you describe it as "just Tatooine that happens to have a bunch of junked spaceships around" is pretty reductive when it explicitly goes out of its way to emphasize that those wrecked ships represent the culture of the planet in a way which is fairly distinct and different from Tatooine in any of the films. Jakku is Tatooine thirty years later, after the defeat of the Empire.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:54
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Cnut the Great posted:The Alliance's executive leadership explicitly decided that those are the only three things that can make you eligible for a medal. Also, you have to be human while doing those things.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
Jakku is a completely different planet than Tatooine.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:02
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jivjov posted:Jakku is a completely different planet than Tatooine. Thematically it isn't, is what SMG is tryin to say
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Jan 1, 2016 05:06
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jivjov posted:Jakku is a completely different planet than Tatooine. According to wookiepedia, perhaps. According to the film, they just changed the name of the planet - like how Burma became Myanmar.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:09
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aBagorn posted:Thematically it isn't, is what SMG is tryin to say Well he did a lovely job saying it. The word "thematically" appears nowhere in his post, and his observation is presented as a factual statement of "Tatooine = Jakku", which is, obviously, false. SuperMechagodzilla posted:According to wookiepedia, perhaps. Where in the film are we told that Jakku is a renamed Tatooine? And if that's the case, where'd the second sun and the moons go?
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Jan 1, 2016 05:09
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Like everything else in the movie, Jakku is an echo of Tatooine with important details reversed.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:14
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Bongo Bill posted:Like everything else in the movie, Jakku is an echo of Tatooine with important details reversed. See, this is an observation that isn't a falsehood. Jakku is similar to Tatooine, but it is quite plainly not the same planet.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:16
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It isn't though. Jakku is almost completely different except for being a desert (which is relatively meaningless.) Jakku is presented as a wasteland. A dead empty world. Tatooine, regardless of how it was presented, was a living world. Mos Eisley Spaceport was a thriving hub of scum and villainy where smugglers and other people commonly passed through. (Later they establish Jabba actually lives there!) Luke is a farmer but seemingly a comfortable farmer. Not fantastic but he's living as comfortable a life as we can see on that planet. It has a thriving sports culture with Pod Racing apparently being a big central thing. It is, in short, alive. Even the terrible things, like slavery, emphasize this is a living planet. We're given a clear indication of native culture with the Sand People and maybe the Jawas. Jakku is dead. It is a dead world. People are constantly surrounded by the decaying husks of 30-year old war machines and they scrounge out a living harvesting that. We're shown little sense of a shared culture in the way that Tatooine has even early on. (Luke wants to go to Toshi Station to hang out with his friends, Rey doesn't seem to have anything but other competitors.) There is no real sense this is a living planet. It's a planet of vultures. Everyone is preying off everyone else. There's none of the life that Tatooine has. This is intentional. Jakku is a corpse-world almost literally. It's littered with symbols of death that are harvested to eek out another's day life. The superficial similarities exist but they are only superficial at the best. Tatooine is an alive world. Jakku is a graveyard. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 1, 2016 |
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Jan 1, 2016 05:16
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ImpAtom posted:It isn't though. Jakku is almost completely different except for being a desert (which is relatively meaningless.) Ooh, excellent. It's so easy to look at Tatooine and say "terrible", but that's all filtered through Luke's desire to be ANYWHERE else.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:20
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FWIW Luke is also shown to be relatively privileged in ANH. We're first introduced to him in the movie assisting in the purchase of slaves for goodness sake. Poor people can't afford them. Like obviously people like Jabba have it better than Luke, but of course his perspective of his world is different than someone like Rey, who is of a lower class than Luke was.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:27
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Here's another good illustration of my point about the planets in TFA. Takodana might as well have just been called Planet Lake-and-Some-Trees. It's got some nice on-location photography, but nothing about it is nearly exotic or interesting enough to justify its existence as a prominent locale in a $200 million Star Wars feature film released in the year 2015. It looks and feels basically just like Earth. Compare it to Kashyyyk from Revenge of the Sith:       Which one looks more like an alien world? Which image is more romantic and dream-like and evocative? Which one more embodies the goofy, audacious, inventive spirit of Star Wars? And Kashyyyk is just one of NINE new, unique, imaginative planetary locations which appeared in just Revenge of the Sith alone (not counting Coruscant, Naboo, and Tatooine, which appeared in previous films). And this was a $113 million movie that came out in 2005. Again, compare that to the $200 million that it took to make The Force Awakens in 2015. Given these facts, the enormous deficit in visual inventiveness between the two films is both astounding and disappointing. And it's not like this is due to a lack of ability on J.J.'s part. He's perfectly capable of conceiving and bringing to life the kind of weirdly beautiful alien environments which define a series like Star Wars. He accomplished this wonderfully at the beginning of Star Trek Into Darkness:    That's the kind of thing I was hoping to see in this movie. Unfortunately, I just don't think that anything quite so quirky and off-the-wall was allowed within the seemingly narrow mandate Disney gave to J.J.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:48
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I think I prefer TFA not going too cartoony and keeping it more restrained. Not every plant has to look like a Hanna-Barbra cartoon.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:52
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Revenge of the Sith could have used more Kashyyyk imo.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:52
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Shbobdb posted:You had dead creatures on tatooine and dead things on Jakku. It rhymes but saying they are the same is dumb. If nothing else, tatooine was purposefully alien with its two suns, contrasting with fairly pedestrian (even suburban) problems faced by Luke. Jakku is foreign but familiar (desert with one sun, sledding, dragons gate, etc) contrasting with pretty unrelateable problems (orphan/prisoner just trying to survive) punctuated with relatable escapism (dorking out with the helmet). They aren't visually distinct from one another, which is the important part. Show someone a picture of Jakku without the crashed Star Destroyer setpiece and they wouldn't know the difference from Tatooine.
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Jan 1, 2016 07:11
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Augus posted:They aren't visually distinct from one another, which is the important part. Show someone a picture of Jakku without the crashed Star Destroyer setpiece and they wouldn't know the difference from Tatooine. "Show me a picture of Jakku without the iconic imagery that is in almost every shot" is a pretty weak argument. The two have pretty different architecture and design sense aside from 'desert.' ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jan 1, 2016 |
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Jan 1, 2016 07:13
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Another thing to consider is that yes, Lucas threw in a lot of "new" planets in the Prequels. He also had a lot more free reign with the budget and rampant blue-screening since it was his checkbook ultimately, along with whatever studio financing was provided. I think that was the largest thing with the Prequel planets, which ones actually had real location work? Just Tatooine and Naboo right? How many planets did we end up seeing, like 12 total? I was actually surprised and a bit worried initially during TFA filming, since so much of it was done in England, but it was fairly successfully able to cover for all four planets in the movie. Edit, counting for my own interest: TPM: Naboo Coruscant Tatooine AOTC: Kamino Geonosis ROTS: Mustafar Alderaan Utapau Kashyyyk Felucia Dagobah Saleucami Mygeeto Cato Neimoidia Teek fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jan 1, 2016 |
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Jan 1, 2016 07:43
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ImpAtom posted:It isn't though. Jakku is almost completely different except for being a desert (which is relatively meaningless.)
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Jan 1, 2016 08:04
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ImpAtom posted:"Show me a picture of Jakku without the iconic imagery that is in almost every shot" is a pretty weak argument. The two have pretty different architecture and design sense aside from 'desert.' Maybe it's just me, but I really don't even remember what the architecture on Jakku was like. It didn't make a big impression on me. And the whole point is that Jakku is just Episode IV"s Tatooine with some different imagery overlaid on top. That's also what Tatooine is in Episodes I, II, and VI. And no, of course Jakku's not supposed to be Tatooine in-universe; it's an entirely different planet in an entirely different location in the galaxy. But in thematic terms, there's no meaningful difference between them. The environment is almost exactly like Tatooine's, the setting itself is very obviously meant to strongly evoke Tatooine, and it fills the same story role which Tatooine fills in Episodes I and IV. If you did a find-replace on the script and substituted "Tatooine" for every mention of "Jakku," absolutely nothing would seem out of place. And again, I have literally zero problem with Jakku basically being Tatooine. Like I said, it's kind of an established tradition that that's where the young heroes of Star Wars get their start. It's not something I feel justified in knocking the movie for. But I do think it's weird for people to defend Jakku, and then turn around and knock the prequels for going back to Tatooine (like TFA does), when they had ample justification to do so (like TFA does), and they gave us something interesting we hadn't seen before every time (like TFA does). And it's not like the prequels were lacking in new, unique planetary locations; in fact, quite the opposite was true. It just strikes me as intentionally misleading to imply that the prequels were just as "retro" in their designs as TFA just because Tatooine was one of the many, many worlds that they visited. The point is, Jakku shouldn't be used a mark against TFA, and the prequels' use of Tatooine shouldn't be used against them. My critique of TFA's imaginative timidity is limited solely to the relatively bland and derivative environments of Takodana, D'Qar, and Hosnian Prime (which was shortchanged regardless). Teek posted:Another thing to consider is that yes, Lucas threw in a lot of "new" planets in the Prequels. He also had a lot more free reign with the budget and rampant blue-screening since it was his checkbook ultimately, along with whatever studio financing was provided. I think that was the largest thing with the Prequel planets, which ones actually had real location work? Just Tatooine and Naboo right? How many planets did we end up seeing, like 12 total? Lucas had a much smaller budget than Disney. And my whole point is that Star Wars shouldn't have to limit itself to real location work anymore. Sure, it's nice when you can get it, but it's getting to the point where it's a choice between having real locations and having locations that actually look and feel like they take place somewhere other than Earth. Even if you thought the prequel environments weren't up to snuff, I think surely the technology is good enough now that a combination of partial sets, practical miniatures, CGI, and plate photography should be thought of as a roughly equal alternative to real location shooting--especially on a movie series like Star Wars. The planets aren't the most important thing, but they're still pretty important. The environment is a big part of the story in Star Wars. I feel like TFA let me down in that department, in large part, ironically, because they were trying so hard to please "the fans." (And to be fair, they obviously did end up pleasing the vast majority of the fans, so I guess maybe I should just go pound sand.) Anyway I don't mean to be all negative, so I'll just mention that I liked the giant pig. Also I basically have no complaints about Oscar Isaac except that he wasn't in more of the movie. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Jan 1, 2016 |
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Jan 1, 2016 08:15
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