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Kaubocks posted:ignoring rez stuff i feel the health regen of valkyrie is kind of excessive Yeah to kill her in valk mode I basically need to convince one of our DPS to dive her with me. Works in our scrims, doesn't work in comp.
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Sep 25, 2017 08:52
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I was all excited to play Overwatch again now that they finally fixed the biggest dumbest problem with it but it seems like as usual they've replaced it with a bigger, dumber problem? Or with something that sounds like as frustrating, at least
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Sep 25, 2017 09:00
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Bleck posted:I was all excited to play Overwatch again now that they finally fixed the biggest dumbest problem with it but it seems like as usual they've replaced it with a bigger, dumber problem? Or with something that sounds like as frustrating, at least 'Seems like' shows that your research into the matter is conclusive.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:15
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Bleck posted:I was all excited to play Overwatch again now that they finally fixed the biggest dumbest problem with it but it seems like as usual they've replaced it with a bigger, dumber problem? Or with something that sounds like as frustrating, at least I still prefer it to old mercy. The no invulnerablity on res means you can at least punish for mercy not picking res targets well. Your not as punished for killing her too fast so picking her first is even stronger than before
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Sep 25, 2017 09:27
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I still don't like mercy, but i'll admit its satisfying seeing her fly near me to rez someone i've just murdered, then I can just murder her immediately as she does it. Downside is there is basically nothing you can do to stop the rez except kill her early, which is really hard because she is super loving fast now.
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Sep 25, 2017 09:59
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Mercy is probably going to be getting a speed nerf given that the Guardian Angel drifting people are doing is less an intended buff and more unintentional physics fuckery.
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Sep 25, 2017 10:05
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The new Mercy is way more annoying than the old one and also probably busted power wise.
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Sep 25, 2017 12:23
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When they announced the changes there was one guy in our group complaining that the "Mercy nerf" totally ruined her and she was now unplayable. I commented that it gives Mercy a smoother battle flow; they retorted that "Mercy shouldn't have a flow of battle". Long story short I'm feeling vindicated. In fact, I'm feeling a little disappointed that I didn't double down harder on exactly how much more effective the buff would make her. (this person also claimed that Mei, Symmetra and pre-buff Junkrat needed to be nerfed)
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Sep 25, 2017 13:13
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I wouldn't be bragging about winning a verbal sparring match with an obvious idiot, tho.
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Sep 25, 2017 13:58
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I was a free weekend player, and I sort of enjoyed the co-op training mode versus the Al more than playing against other people. Does the coop stay busy or will it die off once the free weekend is over?
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Sep 25, 2017 14:14
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There's a co-op vs ai mode?
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Sep 25, 2017 14:31
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Yes, under training. Its pretty drat fun
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Sep 25, 2017 14:35
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New Mercy is fantastic (as a Mercy player).
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Sep 25, 2017 15:08
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The best thing I can say about new mercy is that I can play Zenyatta in peace and know I'll have 2 supports and a better team overall. This is much more fun than having 4 DPS asking me to switch to old mercy so they can die on point and maybe win if they don't outbad the other team.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:15
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I gave new mercy a shot and while I think the changes undeniably make her a better character, she's still aggressively unfun for me. I'm still running around tethered to my team, ping ponging between whoever needs healing most while staying out of sight, except now instead of rezing from 20 meters away I have to rub my face in their butthole to pick them up. I'm glad she's better but she's still not for me, I guess. Luckily there are three other fantastic healers available, so I'm still fine. 
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Sep 25, 2017 15:32
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One thing I'd love to see from Blizzard's stat gathering is what fraction of resurrected characters die within X seconds of being resurrected since the changes (compared to before). I wouldn't be too surprised if new Mercy rezzed characters die more quickly, because most Mercy players (myself included) are probably a little too cavalier with how we use the skill.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:32
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New Mercy is in a weird spot, she's probably bad for the game overall since she's a must pick and that sucks in a game with 20-whatever heroes and only 6 slots, but she's definitely more fun to play as and against than her old version.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:44
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Maybe tune res down to a 1 minute cooldown and starts off on cooldown. Slightly less realistic: Let her old the pistol and staff at the same time. The staff does both beams all the time, but the beams and gun are all at about 2/3 effectiveness. I guess this would make her more zen like though. Res would still be really powerful.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:07
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I mean the one stats graph that got posted a bit above basically showed Mercy getting twice as many rezzes per game now, so cutting the cooldown to 60 secs kind of seems like an easy and obvious fix.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:33
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While I agree that the cooldown could stand to have a nerf, I think that 60 seconds would be overdoing it. I mean, I'm a Mercy main and also Bad At Overwatch, but putting the cooldown that high starts to have a real psychological effect where using it feels kind of bad because you're spending so much more on it, so it feels like you're doing the wrong thing a lot of the time--kind of like how when rez was the ult, and using it on less than three people felt like a massive waste that would get you yelled at, so you hold onto it forever.Straight White Shark posted:I mean the one stats graph that got posted a bit above basically showed Mercy getting twice as many rezzes per game now, so cutting the cooldown to 60 secs kind of seems like an easy and obvious fix. I don't think that quite tells the whole story--there's more rezzes, but because they're spread out they're not as high-impact as before.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:42
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Bleck posted:I was all excited to play Overwatch again now that they finally fixed the biggest dumbest problem with it but it seems like as usual they've replaced it with a bigger, dumber problem? Or with something that sounds like as frustrating, at least Pretty much. Old rez sucked to play against because it instantly negated positioning errors on the part of Mercy's team and expenditures of ult charges from the enemy team, and also incentivized an extremely passive playstyle for Mercy with a relatively simple decision tree. The patch fixed point #3 (Mercy is far more active and has more interesting decisions to make) but now playing against Mercy is miserable for pick-generating characters and you pretty much HAVE to either kill her first or use a team-wiping ult (or at least commit to some strategy that kills a ton of people all at once) to make progress against a team with Mercy on it. In addition, it created a new balance problem; Mercy was in a pretty comfortable "good but not oppressive" place prior to this patch, and now she's an insane game-swinging power.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:55
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The Lord of Hats posted:While I agree that the cooldown could stand to have a nerf, I think that 60 seconds would be overdoing it. It wouldn't be overdoing it at all. It might not even be enough.
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Sep 25, 2017 16:58
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Is a one-minute cooldown that different from the pacing of the original ult? How long did that tend to take to charge?
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Sep 25, 2017 18:39
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Rez being an ability means that a team with a mercy effectively has a .83 player advantage on every fight where rez is up. Or a 2.5 player advantage when ultimate is up. At a 30s cooldown, that means she has it for every major teamfight if not for multiple times during a teamfight, in which rez gets better. Throw in the fact that valk resets that cooldown and shortens it to get 3 rezzes quickly and is up every other fight. It means that a team with a mercy goes into a fight with an effective 6.83 people, or 8.5 if valk is up. So for the following thought exercise we're going to make the following assumptions: 1) a team with the numbers advantage will win every fight. 2) assuming even numbers, each team has a 50/50 chance to win the teamfight 3)each player has an equally likely chance at dying. Mercy on one side (Team 1), no mercy on the other (Team 2). The following outcomes of a fight are 1) Team 1 member gets killed. Mercy rezzes, teamfight progresses as a 6v6. Team 1 wins. Happens 2.5/12 times 2) Team 1 member gets killed, Mercy rezzes, teamfight progresses as a 6v6. Team 2 wins. Happens 2.5/12 times 3) Team 2 member gets killed. Team 1 wins. Happens 6/12 times. 4) Team 1 mercy gets killed. Team 2 wins. Happens 1/12 times. This gives the team 2 only a 29% teamfight on any given fight where mercy has rez. With rez on a 30s cooldown, that means that's every fight. Ultimates and variant skill throw it all into the air, but it's not a coincidence that the math suggests that this is about the winrate of mercy vs. non-mercy matchups right now. Even with rez on a 60s cooldown, a team with a mercy still has a 71% chance to win the first teamfight on a map, which allows for a greater chance at snowballing. Basically, in order for mercy to be a non-mandatory pick, either rez needs to be nerfed substantially, or all the other supports aside from lucio need to be buffed in order to be competitive with rez (don't do this, supports are already so exceptionally powerful that they don't need to be buffed further)
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Sep 25, 2017 18:45
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Make rez an ult-only ability, give her beam chained streams at all times (shorten the length and power on secondary targets) to make up for it Although I don't know if Blizz's engine allows for ult-only abilities so that might not even be possible without a big programming change that'd probably break hundreds of random things. Having rez only restore a small amount of HP might be a decent band-aid I dunno. wyoak fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 19:23
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they've put too much work into giving her a new ult to take it away this quickly
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Sep 25, 2017 19:33
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I don't think they should take away valk. Valk is good, rez just needs to be tweaked heavily to not give such an enormous advantage for so little effort.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:44
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if they're gonna give mercy perfect air control while ulting i think it's only fair pharah gets the same thing
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Sep 25, 2017 20:05
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Kaubocks posted:if they're gonna give mercy perfect air control while ulting i think it's only fair pharah gets the same thing it takes perfect air control to sit motionless in the air while firing off a barrage of missiles
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Sep 25, 2017 20:07
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Yeah had a game where our team had no mercy on attack and instead had Ana. No surprise we lost that match.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:10
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Manatee Cannon posted:it takes perfect air control to sit motionless in the air while firing off a barrage of missiles you win this round
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Sep 25, 2017 20:15
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Rirse posted:Yeah had a game where our team had no mercy on attack and instead had Ana. No surprise we lost that match. Give all the res! -Ana's Sleepdart resurrects a teammate but leaves them sleeping on the ground for six seconds. -Zen can cast both Heal and Discord on a downed teammate and they will resurrect after seven seconds. -Symm's turrets will resurrect you after 20 seconds (This number is cut in half for each additional turret.) -Luccio gives CPR by shooting you with his Primary followed immediately by his secondary. "Clear!" Now, no one can die forever.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:01
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I like where they went with the new mercy, but they may have to extend that timer on the res. I'm a Quick Play scrub, but the new mercy on Attack/Defend CP is back breaking to attack against unless you kill her immediately or the other team is annihilated entirely at the start.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:21
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Splashing nana juice on a corpse should prevent res. (and still blow the cooldown)
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Sep 25, 2017 21:39
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headcase posted:Splashing nana juice on a corpse should prevent res. (and still blow the cooldown) Nana's Weewee Jar turn's enemy corpses into zombies who must be killed again before they respawn.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:22
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It's nice to see Mercy being the essential, must-have support for once. I'm pretty sure every other support (except Symmetra) has had that time in the sun at one point or another, but not really Mercy.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:31
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Main Paineframe posted:It's nice to see Mercy being the essential, must-have support for once. I'm pretty sure every other support (except Symmetra) has had that time in the sun at one point or another, but not really Mercy. you must not have been around for the game's launch because mercy was absolutely a must pick back then. you could get res 1-2 times per fight back before mercy and the global ult charge rate started getting nerfed symmetra also had her moment in the sun but it was during the beta when she gave 75 shield health as a default ability. that got nerfed to 25 and was later replaced by the projected barrier she has now
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Sep 25, 2017 22:34
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Main Paineframe posted:It's nice to see Mercy being the essential, must-have support for once. lol
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Sep 25, 2017 22:35
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Wasn't for the fact Reaper had his healing ability change, I would say introduce the unused idea for Reaper where he can remove the souls that Mercy could revive.
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Sep 25, 2017 22:35
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Rirse posted:Wasn't for the fact Reaper had his healing ability change, I would say introduce the unused idea for Reaper where he can remove the souls that Mercy could revive. it'd be very awkward for there to be such a character specific counter built in like that
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Sep 25, 2017 22:37
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