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Pook Good Mook posted:So you're saying Nancy Grace is...good? No one has ever said this.
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Apr 17, 2017 19:13
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I never comment publicly on my cases. It's simply not down around here at all despite the fact that I technically have authority to speak for the government to the press. I leave it to the cops to comment if there's a public safety concern or about the fact of arrests and charges. But it does seem from American TV at least that DAs will hold press conferences and such. I guess where they're elected officials that makes some sense? It seems like a cultural difference.
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Apr 17, 2017 19:14
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Pook Good Mook posted:So you're saying Nancy Grace is...good? She had a history of bar complaints but no actual discipline on the public record (not to be confused with being dissed by the Supreme Court and the 11th Circuit).
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Apr 17, 2017 19:15
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Gleri posted:I never comment publicly on my cases. It's simply not down around here at all despite the fact that I technically have authority to speak for the government to the press. I leave it to the cops to comment if there's a public safety concern or about the fact of arrests and charges. But it does seem from American TV at least that DAs will hold press conferences and such. I guess where they're elected officials that makes some sense? It seems like a cultural difference. You're allowed to hold a press conference to give objective details. You aren't allowed to go on TV and talk about how the defendant is a literal demon who would rape and murder the viewer's grandmother if they had the chance and by golly, isn't it just amazing how we caught this guy just in time.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:38
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Pook Good Mook posted:http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_3_6_trial_publicity.html Gleri posted:I never comment publicly on my cases. It's simply not down around here at all despite the fact that I technically have authority to speak for the government to the press. I leave it to the cops to comment if there's a public safety concern or about the fact of arrests and charges. But it does seem from American TV at least that DAs will hold press conferences and such. I guess where they're elected officials that makes some sense? It seems like a cultural difference. Umm, why is rules of professional conduct (for attourneys) a thing for prosecutors? Do they not have their own code of ethics to follow under review of Internal Affairs or the prosecutor branch? Also, right with there with Gleri, that's really the only sensible approach given the role of the prosecution. Pook Good Mook posted:You're allowed to hold a press conference to give objective details. You aren't allowed to go on TV and talk about how the defendant is a literal demon who would rape and murder the viewer's grandmother if they had the chance and by golly, isn't it just amazing how we caught this guy just in time. This is insane, by the way. This would be in direct violation of the principle of presumptive innocence, not to mention the ECHR: Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights posted:2. Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. And yes, the Court has ruled against prosecutors willing to a: name the defendant and b:give a public statement to the effect of concluding implicitly or explicitly that they are guilty before trial is complete. Why even do this? Why sully the validity of the process for political or personal gain? It's a pathetic surrender of due process.
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Apr 17, 2017 20:53
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are you really this naive or is it an internet persona thing
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Apr 17, 2017 21:20
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I think he's a foreigner.
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Apr 17, 2017 22:28
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mastershakeman posted:are you really this naive or is it an internet persona thing In Europe, some areas of international law are an actual thing that exists. Human rights law is one of these areas.
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Apr 17, 2017 23:02
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Alexeythegreat posted:In Europe, some areas of international law are an actual thing that exists. Human rights law is one of these areas. sounds made up I ran into an old colleague from the foreclosure world who told me how other colleagues can't ever see their babies due to court coverage + commuting, and that's with just a normal 40 hour workweek it's pretty sad doc review is the best work life balance after government work
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Apr 17, 2017 23:16
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It's a very interesting difference in philosophy in Europe concerning accused persons. Almost as if they actually believe in the rights they pay lip service to. Can you imagine the blue balls American police, prosecutors, and news media would get if they weren't allowed to frog walk, mug shot, and rake through the mud every person they charged? What with the local 6 o'clock news even talk about?
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Apr 17, 2017 23:37
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Phil Moscowitz posted:It's a very interesting difference in philosophy in Europe concerning accused persons. Almost as if they actually believe in the rights they pay lip service to. just imagine if 90% of accused were right rather than black and hey, presto, it's Europe
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Apr 17, 2017 23:46
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mastershakeman posted:just imagine if 90% of accused were right rather than black and hey, presto, it's Europe drat now there's a slip
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Apr 17, 2017 23:51
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Phil Moscowitz posted:It's a very interesting difference in philosophy in Europe concerning accused persons. Almost as if they actually believe in the rights they pay lip service to. I dunno man I watched that netflix special on Knox, and it made backwater Mississippi look incredibly progressive by comparison.
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Apr 18, 2017 01:43
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CaptainScraps posted:drat now there's a slip yeah no kidding lol
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Apr 18, 2017 01:54
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Abugadu posted:I dunno man I watched that netflix special on Knox, and it made backwater Mississippi look incredibly progressive by comparison. You're right, lots of countries in Europe doing things differently. And even in some countries where you don't have to do the perp walk, you can be incarcerated without charge or cause for days.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:05
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Phil Moscowitz posted:You're right, lots of countries in Europe doing things differently. And even in some countries where you don't have to do the perp walk, you can be incarcerated without charge or cause for days. Hmm, wait a minute....
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Apr 18, 2017 03:19
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mastershakeman posted:are you really this naive or is it an internet persona thing blarzgh posted:I think he's a foreigner. To me, you are the foreigners. Did you ever think of that, man?  Alexeythegreat posted:In Europe, some areas of international law are an actual thing that exists. Human rights law is one of these areas. And in a big way. Human Rights, or specifically the ECHR, are usually incorporated into national law, oftentimes even written into the constitution itself or at least given weight whenever conflicting with national law. This has a bunch of important effects, not the least of which procedural. For example, this means that in general in Europe you have the right to be considered "charged" with a criminal offence once you are detained, which unlocks a bunch of rights that are vital to your defence, not the least of which the immediate right to an attourney. ECHR also homogenizes a (very strict) principle of double jeopardy as another for instance, and even imposes a positive obligation to act on states under art. 2 and 3 where the member nation is required to promptly and efficiently investigate, prosectute and punish murder and torture. You wouldn't think that last one would be much of a right, but Turkey (that shining beacon on a hill when it comes to human rights  ) has been convicted several times for that.It is some very real poo poo, because it also extends to property rights (property is human rights, who knew?). Phil Moscowitz posted:You're right, lots of countries in Europe doing things differently. And even in some countries where you don't have to do the perp walk, you can be incarcerated without charge or cause for days. Yeah, I was gonna say this doesn't happen that much and then I remember I had a case last year where this basically happened to a client of mine. I mean, for certain definitions of "without charge or cause". If you are detained you are automatically "charged" and are entitled to a prompt (like, within a few hours I believe) and written explanation of the charge against you in a language you understand, and then a lawyer. That is, of course, if they follow that rule and let you know you have that right if you don't already know... This is the same ruleset that is so strict and so strictly interpreted, that the norwegian mass murderer/terrorist wannabe Breivik actually got what I believe is a municipal court judge to agree to pass verdict on human rights abuse because quote:Brevik had argued during a four-day hearing at the Skien prison 80 miles (130km) from Oslo, where he is serving his sentence, that solitary confinement, as well as frequent strip searches and the fact that he was often handcuffed while moving between cells, violated his human rights. I mean for gently caress's sake. I think it was later overruled though, but it goes to show just what kind of bleeding-heart liberals you're dealing with here.
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Apr 18, 2017 07:53
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I don't speak to the media in just give their reporters the evil eye when I see them in court invariably loving things up and getting them wrong.
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Apr 18, 2017 08:25
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Like everywhere else, European counties have also passed strict anti terrorism laws that allow the detention of anybody without charges, incomunicado, for days.
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Apr 18, 2017 09:23
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Non Serviam posted:Like everywhere else, European counties have also passed strict anti terrorism laws that allow the detention of anybody without charges, incomunicado, for days. Oh hell yeah. Europeans aren't on average smarter than americans in any real sense, we allow big government to gently caress us over just as much as the next continent. Some even have a secret hearing system for wiretaps and computer intrusion, where the police technically need a court order and you're entitled to an attourney for the proceedings, but the attourney can't tell the client or contact them in any way because duh. Surveillance. So you get a case tried in absentia and you won't even hear about it until after they pick you up, at which point you get introduced to the lawyer that's been representing you for months. It's hilarious.
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Apr 18, 2017 09:33
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2017 11:37
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Rights discourses really are the worst
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Apr 18, 2017 13:13
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algebra testes posted:I don't speak to the media in just give their reporters the evil eye when I see them in court invariably loving things up and getting them wrong. I was bored yesterday and read some recent articles about an area I know well and the garbage the reporter was spewing out was completely unreal. the most pathetic part was her using a 15 year old quasi study to list numbers of average cases in a room a day, time per case etc, rather than just going to court and taking notes.
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Apr 18, 2017 13:43
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A former state representative here just had his law license suspended for taking about 100K from his IOLTA account and going to the OTB and casino over a span of 3 months. This same guy created fake online personas to both boost himself and attack his critics. http://www.wtae.com/article/former-legislator-accused-of-misappropriating-client-funds/9137194
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Apr 18, 2017 13:55
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Nice piece of fish posted:And in a big way. Human Rights, or specifically the ECHR, are usually incorporated into national law, oftentimes even written into the constitution itself or at least given weight whenever conflicting with national law. This has a bunch of important effects, not the least of which procedural. For example, this means that in general in Europe you have the right to be considered "charged" with a criminal offence once you are detained, which unlocks a bunch of rights that are vital to your defence, not the least of which the immediate right to an attourney. ECHR also homogenizes a (very strict) principle of double jeopardy as another for instance, and even imposes a positive obligation to act on states under art. 2 and 3 where the member nation is required to promptly and efficiently investigate, prosectute and punish murder and torture. You wouldn't think that last one would be much of a right, but Turkey (that shining beacon on a hill when it comes to human rights Here in Russia, there are lawyers whose primary practice is doing ECHR cases where Russia violated [insert literally any provision of the ECHR] Also, international law lawyers are the only people here with something resembling legal writing skills 
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Apr 18, 2017 16:59
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Alexeythegreat posted:Here in Russia, there are lawyers whose primary practice is doing ECHR cases where Russia violated [insert literally any provision of the ECHR] Doesn't every sentence start with "Therefore" and "Whereas" in ECHR briefs. I feel like half the learning curve is figuring out how to structure that nonsense.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:12
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Alexeythegreat posted:Here in Russia, there are lawyers whose primary practice is doing ECHR cases where Russia violated [insert literally any provision of the ECHR] Russia is parry to the echr? I thought it was a Community legislation.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:22
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Non Serviam posted:Russia is parry to the echr? I thought it was a Community legislation. No, Council of Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Human_Rights
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Apr 18, 2017 19:27
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4.5 hour meeting to discuss a single licensing agreement. We didn't even finish it.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:39
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A lawyer refers me a case where the social study is horrific: basically, it says that there are loving rats in this guy's house and he has an anger management problem. They have a hearing and the judge places the kids with dad and smacks him on visitation. I tell the dude he needs to enroll in counseling and move out of that shithole. Trial is tomorrow, three months after I tell him to do that. "Did you move?" "No." "Did you take the anger management classes I told you to?" "No. What can I do to get my girls back?"
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Apr 18, 2017 19:43
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CaptainScraps posted:A lawyer refers me a case where the social study is horrific: basically, it says that there are loving rats in this guy's house and he has an anger management problem. They have a hearing and the judge places the kids with dad and smacks him on visitation. You can become ghost dad.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:00
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Non Serviam posted:4.5 hour meeting to discuss a single licensing agreement. That sounds about right for pharma.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:02
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CaptainScraps posted:A lawyer refers me a case where the social study is horrific: basically, it says that there are loving rats in this guy's house and he has an anger management problem. They have a hearing and the judge places the kids with dad and smacks him on visitation. But, but, but father's rights!
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Apr 18, 2017 20:13
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Discendo Vox posted:These SCOTUS arguments are cringe-inducing. Fishmech would be better on the bench. What happened?
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Apr 18, 2017 20:15
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Vox Nihili posted:What happened? Even loving Alito is dumbfounded by Gorsuch.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:22
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The print shops in Saipan don’t employ any proofreaders. We just got a big pile of business cards for our Chief Persecutor.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:33
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Mr. Nice! posted:Even loving Alito is dumbfounded by Gorsuch. Is there a particular case, transcript, or link I can look to for this?
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Apr 18, 2017 20:57
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Vox Nihili posted:Is there a particular case, transcript, or link I can look to for this? http://www.npr.org/2017/04/17/524393113/justice-gorsuch-jumps-right-into-questioning-in-supreme-court-debut I don't know where we might find a full transcript, but here's a choice interaction where Alito tells him he's stupid and Sotomayor not-so-subtly tells Roberts that she isn't writing any opinion along the line of Gorsuch's reasoning: quote:Gorsuch repeatedly suggested it would be "a lot simpler" or "a lot easier if we just follow the text of the statute." But as the lawyers on both sides and other justices pointed out, the statute has multiple provisions that are interdependent, and nothing about them is simple or easy.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:06
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Mr. Nice! posted:http://www.npr.org/2017/04/17/524393113/justice-gorsuch-jumps-right-into-questioning-in-supreme-court-debut I like this part: quote:At this point, Gorsuch again suggested the simple solution is to just read the words in the statute, but Gorsuch had a relatively novel idea of what a statute means when it says to apply one provision "subject to" another provision of the law.
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Apr 18, 2017 21:10
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echopapa posted:The print shops in Saipan don’t employ any proofreaders. Still correct
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Apr 18, 2017 21:16
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