|
If Corbyn was principled he would have quit by now.
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 11:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
who would be a popular labour leader with your wife pissflaps?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 11:56
|
|
|
JFairfax posted:who would be a popular labour leader with your wife pissflaps? Please don't start talking about my family again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 11:57
|
|
|
Private Eye posted:They should just start their own party, where they can crusade against liberals and blairites as much as they want, and let Labour sit as the solid centre-left alternative again New Labour isnt center-left.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:00
|
|
|
ronya posted:btw kristtallnacht did feature neighbourhoods of people bringing their children to smash Jewish homes Pogroms against the rich would be fun for the family. learnincurve posted:Australia has always had incredibly tight restrictions on immigration, they have the army stationed on islands ready to turn people back since long before 9/11. There is literally no chance of anyone stupid enough to head to Australia as a refugee leaving those camps until Australia can work out a way to put them on ships and send them back. Australia gives no fucks if your country is in the middle of a war or not, it's your problem not Australias, back on the boats you go. Agreed, Australia is a dreadful racist shithole. Private Eye posted:For me it's this ridiculous obsession with blairites. There's been an influx of people into the Labour party (good) but all they want to focus on is attacking blair and blairites instead of talking about the tories and austerity. Momentum are much more interested in purging the party and fighting people who don't agree with Corbyn than they are actually fighting the current government. It's this ridiculous infighting which always gets attributed to the left, and surprise surprise people see this and relegate the current labour membership to the same levels of political seriousness as the swp/ cpb etc.. Momentum are not more interested in purging the party, Corbyn's team has shown a readiness to compromise and work with all wings of the party, he offered Shadow Cabinet positions to everyone who ran for the leadership in 2015. This infighting is hardly a one-way street, the Labour right had no interest in working with Corbyn or allowing the left a chance without self-sabotage, right from day one. I also disagree that New Labour was centre left. You can't refuse to fight Thatcherism and claim to be centre left
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:00
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Please don't start talking about my family again. surely in your rants about corbyn over the years mrsflaps has voiced an opinion about who could replace him
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:02
|
|
|
Rats and sinking ships https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/835052382476193792
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:02
|
|
|
Private Eye posted:It's this ridiculous infighting which always gets attributed to the left forkboy84 posted:This is guff. The areas with strongest anti-immigrant sentiment are areas with 6 immigrants. Unsurprisingly, living among migrants leads to acknowledging that they are in fact just human beings like me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:03
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Rats and sinking ships one might argue circumstances are not normal
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:03
|
|
|
JFairfax posted:one might argue circumstances are not normal You think Copeland was lost because of Brexit. I see.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:04
|
|
|
that is not what I said.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:05
|
|
|
Then what is the abnormal circumstance you're referring to?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:06
|
|
|
Corbyn and whatever real or imagined infight-prone leftists that exist within the party are at most number three on Labour's list of problems, below a cear-complete lack of talent and the diehard New Labourites, who have repeatedly shown that they will focus all of their energies on tearing down any party leader who doesn't subscribe 100% to the orthodoxy of St. Tony.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:07
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Then what is the abnormal circumstance you're referring to? the parliamentary labour party spending two years undermining it's leader in concert with the vast majority of the press
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:08
|
|
|
JFairfax posted:the parliamentary labour party spending two years undermining it's leader in concert with the vast majority of the press Oh that one. I see. It's the media and the hated PLP. https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/835082623332548609 Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Feb 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:09
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/corbynjokes/status/835068661421522945
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:12
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Oh that one. I see. It's the media and the hated PLP. haha good on corbyn
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:15
|
|
|
Corbyn is the this is fine dog.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:15
|
|
|
pissflaps who does your real doll think would make a good leader of the labour party?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:16
|
|
|
The discussion about "Opposition parties don't lose seats to the government" also doesn't account for the fact that the Tories, whilst in a majority government, are in a very slim majority, meaning there are more seats that could go either way in a given political cycle. I'm not saying it's great for Labour to have lost the seat, it is very clearly a blow, but there are multiple factors across the board as to why. Does that include the leadership? yes. Does the perception of the leadership solely lay with Jeremy? No. Nuance.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:18
|
|
|
mehall posted:Nuance. The new spelling for horseshit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:19
|
|
|
Looking at the percentages from Copeland it looks like UKIP lost 9% of their vote while the Tories gained 8.5%. Labour lost 4.9% and the Lib Dems gained 3.8%. Looks more like the Tories gaining from the collapse of UKIP and going hard right more than anything else.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:20
|
|
|
Just popping my head in to affirm that, yes, no one has changed their views and Labour's performance was just enough to ensure nothing needs to change, clearly the best case scenario.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:21
|
|
|
Labour lost a historic Labour seat, poo poo ain't good right now. I don't think Corbyn is the reason for that but he ain't a solution either
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:21
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Corbyn and whatever real or imagined infight-prone leftists that exist within the party are at most number three on Labour's list of problems, below a cear-complete lack of talent and the diehard New Labourites, who have repeatedly shown that they will focus all of their energies on tearing down any party leader who doesn't subscribe 100% to the orthodoxy of St. Tony. Those three problems are actually one problem.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:23
|
|
|
Not like we've got a better one, unfortunately. I mean if I could somehow magically stuff the party with real good committed left MPs I would but, well, that hasn't been the labour party's bag for a while, gonna take a long time to rebuild that I think.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:25
|
|
|
Fans posted:Labour lost a historic Labour seat, poo poo ain't good right now. I don't think Corbyn is the reason for that but he ain't a solution either Yup. We really do need to work out what a solution is. Changing the leader just won't make a difference because the replacements are Dan Jarvis, Clive Lewis or someone else that the public either don't know or don't like. Meanwhile, Philip Davies is back to old tricks, speaking for 90 minutes to talk out a bill protecting women from violence. What an utter shithead forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Feb 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:26
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:Yup. We really do need to work out what a solution is. Changing the leader just won't make a difference because the replacements are Dan Jarvis, Clive Lewis or someone else that the public either don't know or don't like. The public 'not knowing' somebody is hardly a problem.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:29
|
|
|
You've got a labour party that, frankly, just doesn't have many good politicians in it. They're either bad because they have no original ideas beyond "More of the last government! That was good right?!" or "Like the last government but also more like the Tories." Or they're bad because they aren't particularly publicly energizing, or they're bad because they're in the former camp and can't find anything better to do than making GBS threads all over every other camp instead of the government. Labour's a party full of idiots, idiots with 5 year tenure. It's going to take a long time and a lot of work to get rid of the idiots and find better people to replace them with. And the fault lies with the idiots who let the party get full of idiots in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:31
|
|
|
The leadership challenge will come from one of the MPs who voted against article 50 which actually rules out Dan Jarvis. It's probably gonna be a 2010 MP
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:31
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:It is ridiculous that it always gets attributed to the left, while Tories and uninspiring centrists get cast as 'grown up' and willing to make the hard decisions in the media eye. The left's ability to split and fractionate towers above that of the right's. Whole parties and schools of thought have sprung up because of differences in wording with other parties. Most of my time in the socialist party was spent talking about how the interpretation of theory by the socialist workers party was wrong (which is why I hosed off in the end, a ludicrous example of a party). The split in the communist parties is laughable. No, fractionation isn't the sole domain of the left, but they seem to have cornered the market and become masters at it. Cerebral Bore posted:You are aware thet the blairites started this particular battle, right? But they started it isn't something we accept from children. Corbyn hasn't won within his own party. He has been roundly beaten among the plp, which is the branch of the party that is able to actually effect Labour policy. Corbyn didn't even win among the old-guard of the party membership. He won because he energised an incredible amount of new people to vote for him. He then three-line whipped brexit which is going to turn most of those people off him (and probably to the lib dems). His support in the party has always been tenuous, now he's going to start losing the base that elected him. TheRat posted:New Labour isnt center-left. It's a drat sight more left than the current government. forkboy84 posted:Momentum are not more interested in purging the party, Corbyn's team has shown a readiness to compromise and work with all wings of the party, he offered Shadow Cabinet positions to everyone who ran for the leadership in 2015. This infighting is hardly a one-way street, the Labour right had no interest in working with Corbyn or allowing the left a chance without self-sabotage, right from day one. Corbyn's team is another thing. From multiple accounts it just sounds like he's surrounded himself with incredibly incompetent inexperienced people who want to play politics. I don't disagree that Labour haven't made it easy for him, and their decision to run a leadership election straight after the tories shambles basically made Labour look disorganised and the tories look a paragon of efficiency. The vote of no confidence was spectacularly ill-timed (but then after that he should have gone, how does it look to the public when the party leader doesn't have the confidence of his party, and still refuses to resign? It comes across as dictatorial). But this was always going to happen. Corbyn was an incredibly bad choice for leader because he's on the fringes of the party (and his amazing record of dissent, apparently Cameron voted more times with Labour than him!?! What the gently caress authority does that give him when whipping votes?). Someone from the wings is never going to be able to lead the masses. And now it's come across that an unpolished, untrained politician inexperienced with high-office is actually poo poo at playing the politics of high office. The movement that elected him didn't think any of these things through. They thought his record of disloyalty in voting against his own party was a badge of honour, rather than a negative when you're a leader trying to convince people to be loyal to you and vote with you. They thought his unpolished, un-tainted-by-high-office persona was good, rather than it proving there's a reason why ministers do the rounds in the lower positions before reaching the top. They thought his contentious views were a plus (the whole hamas, ira thing, fine, think whatever you want about them, but his view is essentially smacked-up student politics). The team around him are fantastically incompetent (that vice documentary on them was hilarious for all the wrong reasons), and Seamus Milne? For gently caress sake really? They thought his strong, uncompromising position was admirable (this one I kindof agree with, but the ability to compromise is essential in parliament, and his constant rejection of sharing a platform with Cameron during the EU referendum to me showed that he places petty personal politics above the national interest- again student politics smacked-up). All this stuff turns people off Corbyn and Labour. They're just not a serious party with him at the helm. They're a student's union that got out of control. Private Eye fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Feb 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:33
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:The public 'not knowing' somebody is hardly a problem. It is if it means they can't get their messages across. See also, the current, widespread ignorance about current Labour policy (yes, those policies exist - the Ten Pledges were made official party policy at conference, and now provide the framework for the National Policy Forum).
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:35
|
|
|
Private Eye posted:But they started it isn't something we accept from children. I'm not exactly sure if the tories are a serious party either, they're pretty incompetent and dont have a loving clue how to handle brexit, or negotiate. 'serious' seems to be 'happy to bomb people'
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:39
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:It is if it means they can't get their messages across. See also, the current, widespread ignorance about current Labour policy (yes, those policies exist - the Ten Pledges were made official party policy at conference, and now provide the framework for the National Policy Forum). Pledges aren't policies. They're waffle.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:40
|
|
|
Fans posted:The leadership challenge will come from one of the MPs who voted against article 50 which actually rules out Dan Jarvis. It's probably gonna be a 2010 MP I think you'll find it'll be the enigmatic young leftist firebrand Owen 'The Pfizer Tiger' Smith.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:40
|
|
|
JFairfax posted:I'm not exactly sure if the tories are a serious party either, they're pretty incompetent and dont have a loving clue how to handle brexit, or negotiate. They just took a Labour heartland seat because of their perceived professionalism in dealing with brexit. If they're incompetent, then what the gently caress are Labour?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:40
|
|
|
Private Eye posted:They just took a Labour heartland seat because of their perceived professionalism in dealing with brexit. If they're incompetent, then what the gently caress are Labour? do you think the tories have a clue when it comes to brexit? I mean the country voted brexit on the back of lies, I don't think *actual* competency matters
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:43
|
|
|
JFairfax posted:do you think the tories have a clue when it comes to brexit? They give the appearance of having a clue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:44
|
|
|
I'd say for the most part the public believe the Tories are doing a good job. I'd imagine a lot of the voting public aren't going to be as politically aware as those in this thread, so they see the Tories as trying their best with Brexit but the EU and 'Remoaners' are making it difficult for them
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
Fans posted:The leadership challenge will come from one of the MPs who voted against article 50 which actually rules out Dan Jarvis. It's probably gonna be a 2010 MP Its going to be Clive Lewis if the rumours are true of Owen Smith and others trying to get him to stand. Dan Jarvis is far to unknown with the general populus and will give another sense of 'who' that Owen Smith had when he stood, while Clive Lewis has been in the news, doesn't have a bad rating and appears to have a good rating with the membership. ukle fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Feb 24, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2017 12:48
|
|