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Mymla posted:Just rip off wow brewmaster for dancer tbh. I do hope they go a little bit in WoW's direction when it comes to unique class mechanics, especially now that they'll be able to add more UI elements. I thought it was gimmicky back when WoW first started doing it, but now they've successfully made a huge pile of individual specs that all play differently from one another. They're not perfectly balanced by a long shot, but it's also not amazingly broken (unless you play Elemental Shaman, rip), and the imbalances are rarely down to the individual spec mechanics. Like, I think there's room for another type of healer in FFXIV. Right now, we have a healer who has strong direct heals that leave HoTs, a healer with weaker direct heals that give shields (and a healing pet), and a healer that can switch between HoTs and shields between fights. There's room for so much more there, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if part of the difficulty of balancing WHM, SCH, and AST against each other is that AST doesn't really have its own niche so much as it can fill the niche of whichever job it isn't paired with.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:17
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Harrow posted:How did the FFXI Dancer play? Not that that would necessarily have any bearing on what a hypothetical Dancer job would do in FFXIV, but I'm curious anyway. Like an FFXI Bard.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:19
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Wildcard: Dancer as ranged DPS with super long scarves. Please note that this is a bad idea. Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 16:22
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Mymla posted:Dark dance is also one of the best tanking cooldowns in the game for large pulls, possibly the best, because when enough things are hitting you at once it becomes a flat 20% damage reduction plus 30% parry.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:28
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Mymla posted:Dark dance is also one of the best tanking cooldowns in the game for large pulls, possibly the best, because when enough things are hitting you at once it becomes a flat 20% damage reduction plus 30% parry. Brewmaster in a game with a GCD as long as 14's sounds like an awesome way to make healing miserable. I'm sure it's possible they could make it smoother for FF, but brewmasters are notoriously unfun to heal. It's like least played tank in the game. Likewise people suggesting RDM should be disc priest or old fistweaving monk don't seem to recall how loving awful balance for them is in WoW. Fistweaving was so hard to balance they all but removed the playstyle in Legion, and Disc priest has traditionally either been awful garbage or extremely good with no in-between. I'd love for FF to crib more from WoW's cooler classes but they're completely different games and FF being less adventurous has kept things more balanced than WoW manages, which I love.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:32
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ilifinicus posted:did you just scroll past the guy saying that dark arts'd dark dance is the biggest anti-bloodprice cooldown combo ever? nobody should ever *ever* dark arts their dark dance yeah i'd rather bloodprice and spam sea urchin over a 20% reduction for big mob pulls, which only appear in EXDR (because savage content is mob-less excepting faust, lol), of which healers i run with are more than capable of healing through with shadowskin, or shadowwall if you're feeling nasty hell if you really want to burn mana on big mob pulls, dark arts your sea urchin to help heal the damage e: sorry, there are mobs in a9s and a12s, but a9s i already tank them without grit, so you don't need dark arts dark dance, and a12s i haven't done, but i've seen done, and it doesn't look like you need it there either boy are my arms tired fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 16:34
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da dark dance is nice for big roulette pulls where the dps are a bit too slow, but obviously have shadowskin+blood price on cool down first
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Oct 28, 2016 16:43
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ilifinicus posted:did you just scroll past the guy saying that dark arts'd dark dance is the biggest anti-bloodprice cooldown combo ever? nobody should ever *ever* dark arts their dark dance Hypothetically you could just not use it at the same time as blood price. Also, you'd be surprised how many cooldowns you can end up needing as a tank when the dragoon is spamming ring of thorns and the black mage is using blizzard II.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:47
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if you blood price and spam DA urchin you'll be outDPSing that dragoon anyway
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Oct 28, 2016 16:50
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Harrow posted:How did the FFXI Dancer play? Not that that would necessarily have any bearing on what a hypothetical Dancer job would do in FFXIV, but I'm curious anyway. You could be a sub-par tank with /NIN, or an okay support DPS/off healer with /THF (SATA). You were mostly around to keep Haste Samba up on things. There was Drain and Aspir Samba too but the numbers on Drain were crap and Sambas effects were given on autos, which no MP-burning class would do realistically. Waltzs could cleanse, cure one or cure area and cost different percentages of TP (remember that this is XI so TP's biggest use is Weaponskills for Skillchain/Magic Burst). Steps could inflict levels of EVA/DEF/MDEF/CRITEvade down on targets and cost TP and you had to fight accuracy for them. Landing one got you a stack of Finishing Moves, which could be burned on Flourishes for various effects, like making the first hit if your next Weaponskill/attack a triple-hit, Provoke, Heavy, Stun, or readying the target for a Skillchain. They were split into three levels with different cooldowns. Also there were jigs and /DNC was popular for soloers purely for Spectral Jig which gave you both hide and sneak with no cost. They were pretty much only good with daggers (and had Dual Wield as soon as Lv20) but they also had an artifact throwing weapon.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:58
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Probably re-activating and transferring this weekend. Is Excalibur still the place for goongroups? I was on exodus but that group was dwindling when I dropped out of playing.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:57
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Harrow posted:Wildcard: Dancer as ranged DPS with super long scarves. This is a great idea, what are you talking about. I would rock the gently caress out of that scarf.
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Oct 28, 2016 16:59
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lokipunk posted:Probably re-activating and transferring this weekend. Is Excalibur still the place for goongroups? I was on exodus but that group was dwindling when I dropped out of playing. yes, excalibur is very active, come play milord Mymla posted:Hypothetically you could just not use it at the same time as blood price. if you absolutely need to dark arts a defensive, it's a better use of mana in your scenario to DA Dark Passenger for the bonus damage + blind, since in your scenario your dps are essentially dead weight and you need as much damage going out as possible (because a defensive at that point is going to only draw out the wipe, but not secure kills - remember the best way to mitigate damage is to kill the things hitting you) if you are in a scenario where all your other cooldowns (shadowskin, shadow wall, convalescence + awareness, foresight, dark mind if magic damage, living dead) are on cd and you are absolutely dying, you should not be doing large pulls - dark arts dark dance isn't gonna solve that boy are my arms tired fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 17:04
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UHD posted:This is a great idea, what are you talking about. Mostly because I don't think we need another ranged physical DPS with strong support abilities. Though it actually would own in a vacuum.
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Oct 28, 2016 17:10
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boy are my arms tired posted:yes, excalibur is very active, come play milord Now I guess the only question is do I say a boy catgirl or do I become a dragongirl.
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Oct 28, 2016 17:09
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lokipunk posted:Now I guess the only question is do I say a boy catgirl or do I become a dragongirl. catboys are cool, no dragongirls allowed imo
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Oct 28, 2016 17:13
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Harrow posted:How did the FFXI Dancer play? Not that that would necessarily have any bearing on what a hypothetical Dancer job would do in FFXIV, but I'm curious anyway. The unique thing about XI Dancer was that it's toolkit tended to use TP as a resource as opposed to MP. The key difference, of course, is that XIV TP is a fixed amount that diminishes as a fight goes on, and XI TP starts from 0 and is generated by auto attacks. Because of this TP was essentially "infinite" in XI as long as you could keep landing attacks (and also why Haste was the most important buff you could have on your character), and the challenge of playing Dancer was choosing when to spend TP a bit at a time on abilities and when to blow it all on a more damaging weaponskill. This also made them bar none the best solo class in the game for most content, as they had excellent healing abilities and would not run out of resources to use them unlike other soloing classes at the time. If I were to translate that into XIV somehow it would be by giving Dancer multiple, useful TP restoring abilities (maybe a combo finisher that immediately gives you back 200tp or something, for example), to complement a bunch of buffs and debuffs which are oGCD and eat chunks of TP. Sort of like a Black Mage, in that their TP pool would be infinite but finessing the amount you have at any given point is where the complexity comes in.
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Oct 28, 2016 17:36
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lokipunk posted:Now I guess the only question is do I say a boy catgirl or do I become a dragongirl. Neither. Honor your ancestors by becoming a Roegadude/dame. Can't throw a rock without hitting a catgirl or tiny dragon. Stand out by being the tallest in every dungeon you go into. Brainamp fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 17:59
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Not sure what weapons you'd give Dancers though, since daggers and fists are already taken up. The best I can think of are quarterstaves/poles, which would give them reach similar to a Dragoon. Maybe make them like naginata or Zidane's weapons if they want to keep Sword Dance.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:01
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World of Final Fantasy is super cute and I'm hopimg a future dungeon will bring in a boss that has the stacking mecanic. No Final Fantasy 11/14 references yet other than using the same design for the Mandragora although FF12 used that too but still wouldn't rule anything out.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:04
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ApplesandOranges posted:Not sure what weapons you'd give Dancers though, since daggers and fists are already taken up. The best I can think of are quarterstaves/poles, which would give them reach similar to a Dragoon. Maybe make them like naginata or Zidane's weapons if they want to keep Sword Dance.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:03
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I'm pretty sure they insinuated at fanfest that featherfoot is getting the axe. Also, if red mage is a healer class, they're going to be the worst duty finder class. People will play them and only heal, completely ignoring their offensive kit that makes a red mage a... red mage. It'll be like AST at 3.0 launch but worse.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:11
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I think Red Mage being a melee magic-damage DPS would be cool. Give it dual/double casting where you can cast two spells right after another/same time, like a swiftcast, so it's poking at things with a rapier while tossing out spells. I don't think a mage tank would make sense and the name makes me think of a DPS job instead of a healer.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:25
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Saint Freak posted:Dancer will clearly be a rhythm-based minigame evasion tank. Every fight will be the final fight from Drakenguard. Please don't encourage SE to use Yoko Taro more.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:26
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ApplesandOranges posted:Not sure what weapons you'd give Dancers though, since daggers and fists are already taken up. The best I can think of are quarterstaves/poles, which would give them reach similar to a Dragoon. Maybe make them like naginata or Zidane's weapons if they want to keep Sword Dance. Feet weapons, obviously.  More serious answer, bladed scarves or warfans.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:34
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ilifinicus posted:of course, but we're talking about the "evasion" rate here Warriors who didn't want to grind PLD to 42 for Awareness. I mean, more power to them if they thought it did anything, but as far as I am concerned, so long as we don't know if the dodge bonus from Featherfoot is additive or multiplicative, it's useless and should be abandoned in favor of something with a concrete effect and has better synergy.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:40
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Warriors who didn't want to grind PLD to 42 for Awareness. Ditch Featherfoot and what was that other button I never push on MNK? Oh yeah, Haymaker.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:42
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make a teleport based tank like rift
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Oct 28, 2016 18:44
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Kwyndig posted:Ditch Featherfoot and what was that other button I never push on MNK? Oh yeah, Haymaker. While we're at it, make One-Ilm Punch PVP only and then give us Axe Kick for PVE.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:47
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Farg posted:make a teleport based tank like rift  monks
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Oct 28, 2016 18:48
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SirPhoebos posted:Please Yeah
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Oct 28, 2016 18:50
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Kwyndig posted:Ditch Featherfoot and what was that other button I never push on MNK? Oh yeah, Haymaker. Oh I'm sure it does *something* for a MNK, but untraited for a WAR? I'd rather have something like Keen Flurry. 40% increased parry? poo poo would be *cash* for a WAR. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 18:49
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Demicol posted:I think Red Mage being a melee magic-damage DPS would be cool. Give it dual/double casting where you can cast two spells right after another/same time, like a swiftcast, so it's poking at things with a rapier while tossing out spells. Based on 3.4, I'm still pretty convinced what we're going to get is Red Mage In Name Only, essentially the Red Mage aesthetic and lore stapled onto what is functionally a Mystic Knight/Rune Fencer. And I think that would be rad.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:53
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Oh I'm sure it does *something* for a MNK, but untraited for a WAR? I'd rather have something like Keen Flurry. 40% increased parry? poo poo would be *cash* for a WAR. Nah, since you're not going to get hit as a MNK except by poo poo you can't dodge it's a useless button. Maybe if you spent more time in solo play it would be worth it, but since everything has to be soloable by anybody outside of Hunt A and S ranks and certain Fates it's a wash. It's like, why DRG even have Keen Flurry? Give that to a class that actually tanks, Yoship.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:55
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Excal sucks, come to Balmung.
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Oct 28, 2016 19:06
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Keen flurry is useful as gently caress. There are a lot of attacks in raids and other fights that can be greatly mitigated by it. The only dragoon skill that needs the chop is feint. Everything else has a frequent use for me.
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Oct 28, 2016 19:06
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Gizmo Chicken posted:While we're at it, make One-Ilm Punch PVP only and then give us Axe Kick for PVE. Holy poo poo this would be so busted. Gimme.
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Oct 28, 2016 19:14
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Mr. Nice! posted:Keen flurry is useful as gently caress. There are a lot of attacks in raids and other fights that can be greatly mitigated by it. I use feint all the time. As bard.
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Oct 28, 2016 19:14
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ApplesandOranges posted:Not sure what weapons you'd give Dancers though, since daggers and fists are already taken up. The best I can think of are quarterstaves/poles, which would give them reach similar to a Dragoon. Maybe make them like naginata or Zidane's weapons if they want to keep Sword Dance. They can just be slightly more ornamental/jingly fist weapons called Dancer's Arms. They don't need to be literally different weapons. Dancer's not getting implemented, though. 
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Oct 28, 2016 19:43
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It's funny that people are talking about three different classes they think they'll get in the expansion
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