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Al! posted:i think the biggest factors would be control of utilities especially water, and the fact that there are no rural hospitals and few rural doctors left i mean war's not gonna change those facts, but once they start rolling tanks into times square or gassing flatbush avenue the resistance is gonna roll over quick or wait, are we supposed to assume the united states military would not immediately side with the chuds?
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Jul 3, 2018 21:36
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Serf posted:i mean war's not gonna change those facts, but once they start rolling tanks into times square or gassing flatbush avenue the resistance is gonna roll over quick i think that americans have been lying to themselves for a really long time about being one nation indivisible
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Jul 3, 2018 21:37
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StashAugustine posted:Why does everyone think a war would be just ACW with tanks instead of the Troubles across an entire continent this exactly. there are no armies who want to secede and the CHUD states already have the people they want to be in charge in charge. the divide now is not north v south, it is urban v rural, with the suburbs split down the middle. it would be an ugly subterranean militia war, bodies dumped in public, schools and hospitals bombed, that sort of thing— not a true war. the army would not be involved except as “peacekeepers”
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Jul 3, 2018 21:38
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judging by how they react to sports team wins the midwest will burn itself down with every victory
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Jul 3, 2018 21:38
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Serf posted:i mean war's not gonna change those facts, but once they start rolling tanks into times square or gassing flatbush avenue the resistance is gonna roll over quick Depends on the type of civil war we're talking about. If it's like The Troubles then the military will stick with the government, but if it's like Syria or the original American Civil War then there's bound to be some defections but the bulk of the military will stick to the government it pledged an oath to. The ideological sympathies don't factor in as much when it comes to who the military takes sides with. If the government's views line up with the chuds then that's just a bonus.
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Jul 3, 2018 21:40
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Al! posted:i think that americans have been lying to themselves for a really long time about being one nation indivisible right, exactly. so anyone who dissents is gonna get predator droned in a matter of hours
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Jul 3, 2018 21:41
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chud factions won't allow a split because red states are huge welfare queens and need populous, liberal states to maintain their lovely standards of living and disgusting levels of inequality, it'll be Troubles type stuff with lots of LAW AND ORDER rhetoric from the right who accurately gauged the loyalty of the in-state armed forces if it came down to them having to cut the checks
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Jul 3, 2018 21:41
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Serf posted:right, exactly. so anyone who dissents is gonna get predator droned in a matter of hours It's this. There's no point in speculating about land tactics anymore, we live in an age of drone warfare.
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Jul 3, 2018 21:46
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:this exactly. there are no armies who want to secede and the CHUD states already have the people they want to be in charge in charge. the divide now is not north v south, it is urban v rural, with the suburbs split down the middle. it would be an ugly subterranean militia war, bodies dumped in public, schools and hospitals bombed, that sort of thing— not a true war. the army would not be involved except as “peacekeepers” The Thirty Years War into is there is a unitary government in the HRE, but it is really weak, and at the same time, it really drat unwisely decides to reverse religious tolerance. This increases secretariat strife, and in a bit of bad luck, the rulers of one major area, the Palentine, through really crazy religious convictions, decides to revolt and some people get hucked out a window (and survive), the defenestration of Prague. Then it is on between the HRE and these protestant assholes, and because the war was remarkably ill-conceved on the Palentine's part, it quickly rolls the HRE's way. Then, using sectarianism and other politics as cover, basically everybody who shares a border with the HRE says "y'know, I bet I can carve off a piece of this action, I'm in" and things go...downhill
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Jul 3, 2018 21:46
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Nebakenezzer posted:[Something about the decline in critical thinking skills in the west?] This is disingenuous. What's really happened is that we can no longer afford the truth: admitting your side is wrong is conceding a victory to the other side. I win, you lose; you lose, I win. The idea that truth makes us both win is no longer viable People, as a rule, look for confirmation of what they already believe, and stress factors only make this tendency stronger, and truth-seeking a luxury. Have you ever read Russian propaganda? The grammar is terrible (to the point of sometimes saying the opposite of what it meant to say), it's full of typos and malapropisms, and they can never get slang or regionalisms quite right. Nobody reads it: it superficially pattern-matches conservative beliefs, so it gets shared automatically. There isn't a "right" way to use Facebook or Twitter: they're designed for functional illiteracy. Anything that slows down making connections with other people, including reading the thing you're commenting/liking/sharing, is optimized out Nebakenezzer posted:In Russia itself, breaking down the rule of law and taking over most info sources was important, as attacking the concept of truth and justice is important to make people accept the perpetual strongman In Russia, people know and accept that the media is compromised and that the government lies. There is no expectation to the contrary. It's probably not a coincidence that they have such high rates of alcoholism, depression and suicide
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Jul 3, 2018 21:47
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^^ I deny your disingenuous change as I think we're two blind men, trying to describe the same ill, dysfunctional bearKiteAuraan posted:Qanon is a kid in a coma hooked up to the internet because they got bored of being in a coma and wanted to gently caress with people. I remember this Cowboy Bebop episode, it was great Nebakenezzer has issued a correction as of 21:54 on Jul 3, 2018 |
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Jul 3, 2018 21:47
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Military wouldn't be an active force in The American Troubles, except for national guard as "riot control". Drones would be used for surveillance but not for blasting people.
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Jul 3, 2018 21:49
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to be clear: there is no chance of an armed revolt ever succeeding in america. the military will stay loyal so long as we pay them and its clear that politicians will start sacrificing babies in the street before they let they even consider the notion of not pumping the military chock full of cash. and with drone warfare in vogue and the specter of automated weapons on the way, the nails are well and truly driven into that coffin if there ever is a civil war it will be over some semantic argument like "kill the poor" vs. "render the poor down into biofuel for the muskrocket 42069" this urban vs. rural poo poo ain't never gonna happen
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Jul 3, 2018 21:50
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It wouldn't be revolutionary, it would just be widespread "emotional catharsis", hoax mongering, and nazis uploading pics of the people they massacred to twitter with culture war related captions. it would suck, also it would probably wouldn't be across the whole country. Think gang warfare and not gettysburg
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Jul 3, 2018 21:53
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Serf posted:to be clear: there is no chance of an armed revolt ever succeeding in america. the military will stay loyal so long as we pay them and its clear that politicians will start sacrificing babies in the street before they let they even consider the notion of not pumping the military chock full of cash. and with drone warfare in vogue and the specter of automated weapons on the way, the nails are well and truly driven into that coffin On the other hand civil wars get started almost without exception over stupid and petty reasons, so there's no point in trying to rationalize its likelihood. The next civil war could get kicked off by qanon militias trying to do citizens' arrests on pizzagate celebrities.
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Jul 3, 2018 21:53
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:On the other hand civil wars get started almost without exception over stupid and petty reasons, so there's no point in trying to rationalize its likelihood. The next civil war could get kicked off by qanon militias trying to do citizens' arrests on pizzagate celebrities. sure, but the end result is the same
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Jul 3, 2018 21:54
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Dearest wife We defended the pizza parlor against the proud boys for 18 hours today Thrice they came and thrice our shot repelled them I hear their rebel yell of "meme kek lmao" echoing through my mind I fear their faces shall haunt me to my dying days, a man in a frog mask split in twain by the hot fury of a grenadier's powder
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Jul 3, 2018 21:57
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Bullfrog posted:It wouldn't be revolutionary, it would just be widespread "emotional catharsis", hoax mongering, and nazis uploading pics of the people they massacred to twitter with culture war related captions. i was also thinking of latin america and with the drug cartels. like that.
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Jul 3, 2018 21:59
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War is h*ck, binch -unknown soldier, 2020
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Jul 3, 2018 21:59
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:On the other hand civil wars get started almost without exception over stupid and petty reasons, so there's no point in trying to rationalize its likelihood. The next civil war could get kicked off by qanon militias trying to do citizens' arrests on pizzagate celebrities. Exactly. The way it would start is with those militias straight up taking over some town to "protect" it on the basis that their law enforcement can't or won't. Oh, and this is happening. https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/1014178051914063873?s=19 Note the sign specifically saying they are planning to shoot people.
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Jul 3, 2018 21:59
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:yeah. like a more extreme version of what we have now Honestly this whole thread convo right now could be pretty weird in historical retrospect a few years from now. given that it seems to already be happening literally right now, just without guns or bombs
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Jul 3, 2018 22:02
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Biggest red flag I could think of is either the state shooting protesters or chuds doing the same That's the point of no return imo
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Jul 3, 2018 22:02
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Eh, poo poo is still stable enough that there isn't going to be widespread violence without a major catastrophe. Small scale political violence is going to continue to get more common, and will probably include more attempted assassinations. There might be serious riots if there are legit crackdowns on protests. That's going to keep happening until we stop letting vast numbers of people fall through the cracks.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:03
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:yeah. like a more extreme version of what we have now keep in mind that a lot (all) of those conflicts are kept alive by direct US involvement, so idk wtf would happen if the conflicts were happening within the borders............. but it would make for some fascinating business opportunities for monsters
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Jul 3, 2018 22:04
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Al! posted:keep in mind that a lot (all) of those conflicts are kept alive by direct US involvement, so idk wtf would happen if the conflicts were happening within the borders............. but it would make for some fascinating business opportunities for monsters Russia funding alt-right militia groups would be pretty yikes. Though there are plenty of bloodsucking billionaire vampires here to where it's questionable as to how much more help they would need.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:05
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personally i think the rural/urban divide is way overblown because it only refers to electoral politics not control of resources/populations, if things escalate to major conflict it'll be between regions and it'll ultimately be over water
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Jul 3, 2018 22:06
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Bullfrog posted:Russia funding alt-right militia groups would be pretty yikes. Though there are plenty of bloodsucking billionaire vampires here to where it's questionable as to how much more help they would need. idk how much funding these groups would even need the mahleur dipshits got care packages mailed to them by sympathetic americans (along with some pranks) and the FBI just let that poo poo through that would probably change if mass militia action happened across the country but even if it did these dudes are already stockpiling weapons and ammunition so all they need to do is start stockpiling food along with it and they can dig in for hostile occupation of libraries and local museums and pizza parlors all over the US
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Jul 3, 2018 22:18
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Bullfrog posted:Russia funding alt-right militia groups would be pretty yikes. Though there are plenty of bloodsucking billionaire vampires here to where it's questionable as to how much more help they would need. Billionaire vampires are always going to side with the government because civil wars are bad for business. If you own an enterprise that can be valued that high, then you're guaranteed to depend on interstate operations. Southern planters thought they didn't need the Union because they could just keep selling cotton to Europe.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:19
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Phi230 posted:Biggest red flag I could think of is either the state shooting protesters or chuds doing the same Yeah I have this bad feeling taht at some point we're gonna have some protest get opened up on with live rounds and that's gonna get ugly
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Jul 3, 2018 22:20
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SpaceGoku posted:idk how much funding these groups would even need Those stockpiles aren't even close to what you'd need to fight a civil war. Maybe it's enough for a death squad, but that's about it.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:21
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StashAugustine posted:Why does everyone think a war would be just ACW with tanks instead of the Troubles across an entire continent I think the peculiarities of the first one, unlike most other instances of civil war, have merged in some freakish-yet-unsurprising way with persistent ideas of Americans exceptionalism to leave "the same thing 'cept with ARs this time" rather than something closer to, say, Yugoslavia in the mid-90s.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:22
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I think the peculiarities of the first one, unlike most other instances of civil war, have merged in some freakish-yet-unsurprising way with persistent ideas of Americans exceptionalism to leave "the same thing 'cept with ARs this time" rather than something closer to, say, Yugoslavia in the mid-90s. Also TBH I think the big reason is that reenacting Kusrk in Kansas is way 'cooler'
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Jul 3, 2018 22:24
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The next malheur is going to be interesting because the feds largely stood back and outlasted them, on the theory that they'd get smashed by the courts. Given that was a very mixed bag for the ringleaders, I wonder if they will do the same when it happens again.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:24
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I will admit that much of the conflict feels somewhat astroturfed. Antifascists and fascists will naturally fight of course. But it seems like the escalation is something that certain people think they can benefit from. I don't think it's any coincidence that the right wing keeps making up these civil war hoaxes, or that for instance the Proud Boys plan these more and more violent riots with seemingly no overt external political goals to them.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:26
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The Proud Boys are almost definitely getting dark money from some credulous billionaire who thinks a nofap street gang is what the country needs.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:29
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Bullfrog posted:I will admit that much of the conflict feels somewhat astroturfed. it's also about profit for them, because the Liam Neeson genre of "brave strong dad must risk it all to save his family after <disaster/kidnapping> and nothing will stand in his way" is almost as big as terrible romance novels at this point. 90% of them are about sinister leftists or muslims setting off an EMP violence escalating is normal and doesn't need an explanation beyond the fact that we're an extremely violent people who are trained from multiple fronts from birth to dehumanize and exploit
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Jul 3, 2018 22:31
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Right wing war fantasy has been airport fare since the 70s. I don't mean like Tom Clancy military operator worship that libs could get into, but full on white uberman volunteering to fly fighter bombers for Rhodesia type of poo poo.
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Jul 3, 2018 22:34
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Right wing war fantasy has been airport fare since the 70s. I don't mean like Tom Clancy military operator worship that libs could get into, but full on white uberman volunteering to fly fighter bombers for Rhodesia type of poo poo. John Ringo's Ghost was a best selling series
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Jul 3, 2018 22:38
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Proud Boys are almost definitely getting dark money from some credulous billionaire who thinks a nofap street gang is what the country needs. it's almost certianly funded by a bunch of rich techbros like that meme magic vr guy or notch
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Jul 3, 2018 22:39
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there isnt going to be a civil war the olds will die and that's that
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Jul 3, 2018 22:39
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